Chisora v Helenius- disgusting

What a disgrace

9-3 Chisora

Second, Duke Mckenzie is literally the biggest idiot i have ever heard in a commentary booth.

This is just another standard boxing joke of a decision. Why doesn't anyone care???

What benefit is there in giving this glorified biker the win just because he sells tickets in Finland???

And i dont even like Chisora

Hmmm.........used to love boxing. Remember now why I don't anymore.

duke is a complete tool.
chisora, fair play. he proves a lot of people wrong.

Disgrace. Sauerland should be banned by all world and European organisations. What a disgrace. Them and universum are the biggest jokes in the sport

Unfortunately England are no better.

Didn't watch it but Arron nearly got shutout apparently and got the decision on one card.

Chisora prove everone wrong includign me, he is still a Muppet, but he totally dominated that fight. What a joke boxing has become, has it always been this way in scoring? Or is it just because we are a dying sport and have to gift victories to anyone who generates money. That was a joke, Helenius is a glorified biker with a decent chin. Buncey saying that it being a split loss is comfirting is ridculous too. Idiotic comments all round tonight from boxnation

had it 9 rounds to 3 to del boy awful decision. cant understand what the judges were thinking

Imagine that version of derek vs fury, i would definitely back delboy for the rematch. You could see how much better he was

chisora showed a lot of heart and i thought he clearly won it. shame he hasnt got more power though or he wouldnt have needed the judges tonight

shouldnt need a gun in the ring to win tho should he Lance! Just the worst decision i have seen in years, this year has been a nightmare for this. Erislandy Lara v Williams, Matthyse v Alexander and now this, these fighters don't get avoided because they are seen as too high a risk after winning fights like this and being jobbed. This sport would be great if it wasn't for the vultures

Glad to see Chisora fit, throwing and coming forward. Shame about the decision, but you're talking like this is first time it's ever happened.

djlovesyou wrote:Glad to see Chisora fit, throwing and coming forward. Shame about the decision, but you're talking like this is first time it's ever happened.

"This is just another standard boxing joke of a decision."
"Hmmm.........used to love boxing. Remember now why I don't anymore."
"Unfortunately England are no better."
"This sport would be great if it wasn't for the vultures"
"What a joke boxing has become"

Yeah, course we are

Decisions are irrelevant. Look at the Macklin Sturm fight. That robbery was probably the best thing that could have happened to him. Well almost. It hasn't harmed him too much. Loads of offers came flooding in from the states.

I like boxing not for the decisions but for the actual fight itself

I can imagine in a few years time many will be saying Del lost to Helen and using it as a stick to beat Del with.

not at all irrelevant Azania. Matthyse can't get the fight she deserves ebcause he is too high risk low reward for anyone, same a s Lara who barely gets mentioned, Kotelnik hasn't fought since he got jobbed in St Louis, shall i go on. there not always relevent but they can be very significant

Scottrf wrote:

djlovesyou wrote:Glad to see Chisora fit, throwing and coming forward. Shame about the decision, but you're talking like this is first time it's ever happened.

"This is just another standard boxing joke of a decision."
"Hmmm.........used to love boxing. Remember now why I don't anymore."
"Unfortunately England are no better."
"This sport would be great if it wasn't for the vultures"
"What a joke boxing has become"

Yeah, course we are

Thanks Scott mate, saved me doing that. Joke isn't it

Seanusarrilius wrote:not at all irrelevant Azania. Matthyse can't get the fight she deserves ebcause he is too high risk low reward for anyone, same a s Lara who barely gets mentioned, Kotelnik hasn't fought since he got jobbed in St Louis, shall i go on. there not always relevent but they can be very significant

I see your point. But it also means that his management team aren't doing what they are supposed to do. When a guy gets jobbed a la Lara, then his name gets mentioned a lot. His management team should cash in and keep his name going.

On the other hand, as you say being robbed gives them nothing and as such become high risk low reward. A memner of the who wants them club.

Even giving the close rounds to Helenius I had Del Boy 2-3 rounds up. He won by at least 4. It was a poor home town decision.

Azania, in general, if they put up a good fight it will act as promotion and they should get more. But in reality, a boxer has a short career and unjust loses can make or break a fighter. His ego or drive can be severely damaged and/or in revealing he is a live opponent, champs can avoid him.

In the case of Del Boy, this is a weak division and if he keeps it up and hangs round long enough, he'll get a shot. The Klitch's are already out of opponents. Sadly, Helenius will get his chance first though.

The decision really doesn't matter at all that much anymore... Chisora won a moral victory, even though his record records a defeat. He goes away with his head held high and should get plenty of offers for better opposition in the future.

All a Split Decision means these days is that a rematch is required. It's clear from viewing the fight, if it was on neutral territory, Chisora would of won by a UD.

Sorry for being so abrupt Azania, i just get so frustrated when it is that blatant, close fights go to home figther, fine. But that! ARGHH!

I've been reading around the online media and all of them say it was a robbery. Even Eastsideboxing, which is very US centric is saying it was a poor decision. Others are less charitable.

You have to feel sorry for Del Boy to train and work so hard and not get your just rewards must be hard.

I don't know how else you could score it - it was a Chisora victory 9 rounds to 3 as far as I could make it. I don't know how you could even swing the close rounds to make it a Helenius win. Beyond the main point of the OP, this proves what I've long known: Helenuis might be big and strong, but you can't honestly consider him a real threat to the K-bros. Honestly, there's nobody left to challenge for the title.

Boxtthis - I agree. Chis would make it hard for them and he may just fluke a win over Wlad. Sadly, I think Fury and Price are possibly the best out there if the K bros hang around long enough for them.

Deontay Wilder and Seth Mitchell from across the pond are in the same boat as Price/Fury for me, there's potential with both them but they need to seriously step up the level of opponents. Only time will tell if any of them can amount to anything I suppose.

This really puts forward a case for more important bouts to be held in neutral countries imo. I'm not sure if it's more the judges being in promoters' pockets or being heavily influenced by home atmospheres but I have a feeling the latter is a big part of the problem. It's sickening to always come across these pretenders boasting that they're the best who nevertheless push to get the advantage of fighting in the comfort of their backyard. Has the term "any time, any place" lost all meaning?

Unfortunately I can't see it happening, it's all about the money and the easiest way of getting it

It's nothing to do with atmosphere, I can say that from experience, it doesn't affect perception.

It's corruption.

There's a kind of unique situation happening in the HW division nowadays: in past eras there was enough talent for up-and-comers to blood themselves in and then make a challenge at the title. These days the K-bros have got things so sewn up that challengers come thick and fast - before they're even close to being ready. That's if they'd ever be ready in the first place i.e. I don't think many of the possible 'challengers' would be capable of beating one of the brothers ever. I mean, Tyson Fury, c'mon, he's a big boy and I've seen him work his jab well at times, but as an athlete he's night and day compared to Wlad. Price is an excellent boxer - far better than Fury in my opinion - but how is he ever going to build his experience? As soon as he beats anyone of note he'll be in line for a title shot. The Klitschkos are scraping the barrel these days...Jean Marc Mormeck for god's sake. All this fight tonight (Helenius vs Chisora) has shown me is that one of the next great hopes has no chance at winning the title at all. Helenius is not in the same bracket as an athlete. To be honest I think Haye and Ademek would beat the whole Helenius/Fury/Chisora/Dimitrenko tier of HWs..and we see how they faired against the K-bros. It's a sad state of affairs. The only common sense solution I can think of is a Haye/Ademek/Povetkin/Helenius/Fury/Chisora/Dimitrenko/etc/etc tournament to get the fans excitement ignited again. Lock the Klitschkos out. Let their own safety-first dominance be a force against them. Boxing fans would love to see real competitive HW fights again. I mean, I really respect Wlad and Vitalis (Vitali more so) abilities, but it's time to take the division in a different direction other than the "get-your-face-smashed-in-by-the-Klitschkos" sweepstakes.

I feel very sorry for Chisora - I wrote him off before this match based on his performance against Fury when he weighed the same as a small building.

This was a FAR better performance and he really should have got the decision. Helenius looked awful and I believed he thought he could just turn up to win.

As an aside, why did Dimitrenko vacate or is he injured?

Boxtthis wrote:There's a kind of unique situation happening in the HW division nowadays: in past eras there was enough talent for up-and-comers to blood themselves in and then make a challenge at the title. These days the K-bros have got things so sewn up that challengers come thick and fast - before they're even close to being ready. That's if they'd ever be ready in the first place i.e. I don't think many of the possible 'challengers' would be capable of beating one of the brothers ever. I mean, Tyson Fury, c'mon, he's a big boy and I've seen him work his jab well at times, but as an athlete he's night and day compared to Wlad. Price is an excellent boxer - far better than Fury in my opinion - but how is he ever going to build his experience? As soon as he beats anyone of note he'll be in line for a title shot. The Klitschkos are scraping the barrel these days...Jean Marc Mormeck for god's sake. All this fight tonight (Helenius vs Chisora) has shown me is that one of the next great hopes has no chance at winning the title at all. Helenius is not in the same bracket as an athlete. To be honest I think Haye and Ademek would beat the whole Helenius/Fury/Chisora/Dimitrenko tier of HWs..and we see how they faired against the K-bros. It's a sad state of affairs. The only common sense solution I can think of is a Haye/Ademek/Povetkin/Helenius/Fury/Chisora/Dimitrenko/etc/etc tournament to get the fans excitement ignited again. Lock the Klitschkos out. Let their own safety-first dominance be a force against them. Boxing fans would love to see real competitive HW fights again. I mean, I really respect Wlad and Vitalis (Vitali more so) abilities, but it's time to take the division in a different direction other than the "get-your-face-smashed-in-by-the-Klitschkos" sweepstakes.

Agree, I'd like to see a super 6 style tournament with the winner getting a shot at Wlad. I think for Wlad it'd also make it a more credible defence than just knocking one of these guys now, if they've just won a big 2nd tier tournament they look a much more credible opponent. Could have Wilder and Mitchell in there maybe, Fury Price and Chisora from these shores, then Povetkin Dimitrenko and maybe Helenius or Adamek.

what a surprise another joke of a decision and another fighter gettig robbed. British fighters should not fight abroad they need a knock out just to get a draw. Chisora, Murray and Macklin have all be robbed who will be next??

Murray? He wasn't robbed waingro, some say he was lucky to get a draw..

Fists of Fury wrote:Murray? He wasn't robbed waingro, some say he was lucky to get a draw..

Probably means the other Murray - How dare Rios knock him out without the referee stepping in

Waingro wants a british Ottke

Hellenius is just a bum he is not world class. Chisora beat him but was robbed some preople will probably say Haye should fight Hellenius instead of Vitali lol. This is what Haye has been saying all along no point in him fighting these guys what would it prove?

I feel sorry for Chisora he fought a good fight no he has lost two in a row and will probably have to fight a nobody for small money when he should be a european champion with the chance to fight Klichko for a world title.

I would like to see Fury against Chisora in a rematch I think it would good Chisora was not at his best last time but I think Fury will fight Towers next according to Steve Bunce.

Hellenius took some big shots, he's got a good chin but chisora just isnt a power puncher.

all big men can bang, but if chisora just had a bit more power he'd be a decent prospect. like murray i guess.

http://www.worldboxingnews.net/2011/12/sauerland-dimitrenko-first-then-chisora.html?

i hope he follows through with this promise. As people have said, chisora doesn't carry enough of a dig for a heavyweight, helenius and fury have took flush shots from him over and over again and neither have gone down. I think chisora needs to get down to about 230 lbs, that should help him out stamina wise and may make his shots sharper which can increase his power. The problem i have is that chisora's chin (which is very good btw) may get worse as he loses the weight. If he can sit on his punches more he can become a top 10 heavyweight easily and after the K Bro's go he could even be a champion.

Seanusarrilius wrote:Sorry for being so abrupt Azania, i just get so frustrated when it is that blatant, close fights go to home figther, fine. But that! ARGHH!

Totally understand. It wasn't even close. I gave the close rounds to Helenanus because of the hometown factor. Yet I still had Del winning by 3 rounds.

I had it to Chisora 166-112. Helenius looked poor. On the commentary Rowling said Sauerland had it 5-1 Helenius after 6!

prettyboykev wrote:I had it to Chisora 166-112. Helenius looked poor. On the commentary Rowling said Sauerland had it 5-1 Helenius after 6!

Saying Helen looked poor does del boy a disservice. Del made him look poor because Del was and is the better boxer. On that showing he would give Wlad a decent fight bearing in mind the dodgy chin. His style at getting under the jab and his speed would give the current HW's trouble.

Wlad's jab would be the key. Had that fight happened earlier I reckon Wlad would have under-estimated Del, had a few shaky moments but prevailed via clear UD. It would have been an exciting fight as del has an exciting style.

azania wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:I had it to Chisora 166-112. Helenius looked poor. On the commentary Rowling said Sauerland had it 5-1 Helenius after 6!

Saying Helen looked poor does del boy a disservice. Del made him look poor because Del was and is the better boxer. On that showing he would give Wlad a decent fight bearing in mind the dodgy chin. His style at getting under the jab and his speed would give the current HW's trouble.

Wlad's jab would be the key. Had that fight happened earlier I reckon Wlad would have under-estimated Del, had a few shaky moments but prevailed via clear UD. It would have been an exciting fight as del has an exciting style.

When Chisora turns up he's a handful problem is he could turn up in the shape he did for Fury at any time. Take nothing away from Chisora he was very good and strengthened my belief he has an excellent chin and can box at World level if he is right. Helenius I've never been a fan of but I did think he would beat Chisora so fair to play him.

More inclined to think both guys are just way short of Klitschko level. Dont think Chisora has the power to take advantage of Wlad, even if he did have success getting through which I think is doubtful.

manos de piedra wrote:More inclined to think both guys are just way short of Klitschko level. Dont think Chisora has the power to take advantage of Wlad, even if he did have success getting through which I think is doubtful.

I agree. But when Wlad get's hit he panics and that ives his opponents encouragement. When Haye finally landed in R12, Wlad simply panicked even though he wasn't seriously hurt, if at all. He'd beat Del by wide UD but not before del makes him think. He cant do worse that Mormeck anyway.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:More inclined to think both guys are just way short of Klitschko level. Dont think Chisora has the power to take advantage of Wlad, even if he did have success getting through which I think is doubtful.

I agree. But when Wlad get's hit he panics and that ives his opponents encouragement. When Haye finally landed in R12, Wlad simply panicked even though he wasn't seriously hurt, if at all. He'd beat Del by wide UD but not before del makes him think. He cant do worse that Mormeck anyway.

Chisora would be a very good fight with Wlad. Certainly if he's in shape he has a style that works against a taller man. I'm not sure Chisora is a huge puncher but he probably has the power to floor Wlad his chin is shocking. Couldn't see anything other than a Wlad UD by about 4 or 5 rounds but I think it would be a good fight. Like you said much better than Mormeck and he probably deserves it after Wlad putting him off twice and leaving him out in the cold.

prettyboykev wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:More inclined to think both guys are just way short of Klitschko level. Dont think Chisora has the power to take advantage of Wlad, even if he did have success getting through which I think is doubtful.

I agree. But when Wlad get's hit he panics and that ives his opponents encouragement. When Haye finally landed in R12, Wlad simply panicked even though he wasn't seriously hurt, if at all. He'd beat Del by wide UD but not before del makes him think. He cant do worse that Mormeck anyway.

Chisora would be a very good fight with Wlad. Certainly if he's in shape he has a style that works against a taller man. I'm not sure Chisora is a huge puncher but he probably has the power to floor Wlad his chin is shocking. Couldn't see anything other than a Wlad UD by about 4 or 5 rounds but I think it would be a good fight. Like you said much better than Mormeck and he probably deserves it after Wlad putting him off twice and leaving him out in the cold.

That's how I see it. But if he actually gets Wlad on the deck it wouldn't surprise me if he ended it. Against sexton, when he hurt him he poured it on. His style is suited to the taller guys (Haye take note).

I dont think losing to Fury or a (beating) Hellenius is really any comparison to the Klitschkos. The step is just massive. Its a good performance against Hellenius but needs to be seen in context I think.

I would expect him to just get shut down and struggle to find range against either Klitschko.

manos de piedra wrote:I dont think losing to Fury or a (beating) Hellenius is really any comparison to the Klitschkos. The step is just massive. Its a good performance against Hellenius but needs to be seen in context I think.

I would expect him to just get shut down and struggle to find range against either Klitschko.

I suppose what I am trying to get at is that a Del/Wlad fight would be more exciting that anything else out there. At least Del comes to fight and he has a style that would make Wlad uncomfortable at times. He would lose and lose big but would do better than Haye and definately better than Mormeck.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I dont think losing to Fury or a (beating) Hellenius is really any comparison to the Klitschkos. The step is just massive. Its a good performance against Hellenius but needs to be seen in context I think.

I would expect him to just get shut down and struggle to find range against either Klitschko.

I suppose what I am trying to get at is that a Del/Wlad fight would be more exciting that anything else out there. At least Del comes to fight and he has a style that would make Wlad uncomfortable at times. He would lose and lose big but would do better than Haye and definately better than Mormeck.

Possibly, but the Klitschkos have a knack for just taking the play away from you. I could easily envisage Chisora intending to give it a good go but find himself struggling to be able to find any range or platform to mount his attacks. He is also less elusive so chances are he will eat some of those hammer jabs early on and find himself backing up even more.

Id like to think it would be exciting but truthfully I think the class difference would show and it would wind up being a 118-110 to Wlad or late stoppage.

I give Chisora alot of credit for fighting a good fight last noght but I do think there an element of Hellenius being exposed aswell as pretty average.

I dont disagree. As I stated it would be a wide UD. Yes Wlad is superb in keeping fights at his range. Even better since teaming up with Manny. But I recall the Peter's rematch when Fat Sam came forward with intent. He made Wlad very uncomfortable for 2 rounds before tiring. Del is fitter and I be;ieve he has mental strength (Arsenal far here). He wont gas as easy or give up also.

But the gulf in class would be too much. Sad really how we are talking about how uncompetitive a fight would be as opposed to who can win.

azania wrote:I dont disagree. As I stated it would be a wide UD. Yes Wlad is superb in keeping fights at his range. Even better since teaming up with Manny. But I recall the Peter's rematch when Fat Sam came forward with intent. He made Wlad very uncomfortable for 2 rounds before tiring. Del is fitter and I be;ieve he has mental strength (Arsenal far here). He wont gas as easy or give up also.

But the gulf in class would be too much. Sad really how we are talking about how uncompetitive a fight would be as opposed to who can win.

Yeah Peter is really the last heavyweight to cause Wlad any issue. Think Wlad is even better now than then though and has continued to improve. Also think Peter had the power to trouble him and had to absorb a heck of alot of damage just to try to get through to Wlad.

Wlad seems to get better and better with his style and his conditionaing and stamina also seems to have improved alot since the Brewster days. Id like to see Chisora in a few more contenders if he can and possibly look at a rematch with Fury as I think he will feel he didnt do himself justice in the first encounter. A rematch between those two could be exciting.

I was watching wlad earlier fights - he threw a fantastic jab turning into a hook - and much more aggressive punches with some serious snap in them. Think if he was slightly more aggressive he would KO a lot in the first 6 rounds.

Man I did say this was a stupid fight to take and even if Chisora beat him on the cards he was going to lose. I then get people like Alex Huckerby having a go saying I don;t like the Germans etc. It was a daft fight for Chisora to take end of. I really wonder why on earth boxers are so dumb as to think that if they go over to the Bosch they're NOT going to get robbed and they're going to get a fair score on the cards. I hate German boxing with a passion and Sauerland. Makes Don King look like Fairy Tinkerbell.

Wasnt this Finnish boxing and a finnish fighter in helsinki???!