No Welsh teams in the 1/4 finala again ?

First topic message reminder :

In the last couple of weeks a numbers of posters from Wales have been posting gloating messages harking on how well the regsions were doing and how no English teams will be maing he 1/4 finals. How things have changed! The Ospreys are all but out, the Scarlets are in big trouble and unless they tturn Musnter over today in Thomond which is about as likely as Wales winning a rugby world cup then they are gonners to. Cardiff still hae a chance, although I fancy London Irish to oick up the bonus point win today making he group wide open. and I still fancy London Irish to qualify as I think they will win their remaining games. So, with Wales haing LOST their last 3 internationals and only 8th in the world rankings, the regions struggling to qualify to make the 1/4 finals yet again and the terrible low crowds (only 7000 for the most important game of the season for the ospreys to date) is Welsh rugby dying a slow but painful death?

Beshocked,

I'm a Blues fan, and what we've seen so far this season has been what was largely expected, the fallout of an inexperienced coaching duo, a flyhalf that could barely spell pass, let alone throw one, an ageing pack with stars that havent adequately been replaced. But they've done alright, I was expecting more from the game up in scotland but you have to give the opposition credit, there forwards wanted it more. Theres work to be done at the Blues, but thats been obvious for a few seasons now, and I keep joking about it but its a problem for us, its hard to find good players willing to be paid in pies.

I havent seen the full ospreys game yet, but from what I have seen and heard.

The ospreys couldnt break down the Sarries defence, a fair few errors cost them, sarries scored from a chargedown and took the points on offer whereas the ospreys didnt. I think the main differences between those sides over the 2 games has been preparation and the flyhalf, Sarries had it spot on for both games and you could see how their tactics varied. Hodgson played with his head up, Biggar needs to pull his out of his proverbial, then he can start playing with it up.

I'll withold any comment for the scarlets game as I havent seen enough to comment on to be honest, although I would have through coming back from Thomond with a LPB isnt a bad result.

Overall:
I think the regions were hampered from the decision to play Australia a week or so before the double headers of the HC just gone, a very bad decision by the WRU from a regions perspective.
I think that top class coaches could really get more out of the ospreys and blues as regions.
There needs to be a common sense approach from the owners of the regions to improve attendances, you lose some "home advantage" when theres only 7000 cheering you on in a 25000-seated stadium.

I wouldnt say its all doom and gloom like some, and lets not kid ourselves, the regions arent where they need to be yet, but it is only early, and we're seeing the academies producing more and more talent, hopefully in another season or 2 we'll see 2 regions per year in the QFs.

I still expect the Blues to qualify, and think the Scarlets have a chance (havent done the maths so could be wrong on that one) but they have to improve considerably (to the Saints away game-type of form).

the blues should qualify. our biggest problem is our flyhalf, but he regularly kicks us points to keep us in the game, or provides a useful lead.

i would worry if sweeney came in, or henson.

i would be very suprised (not to mention gutted) if the blues didnt qualify. i might even go the that schitty schtadium and watch the last pool game. come on the tbp

dog, we havent been anywhere near as potent a team as we should be since nicky left. I think Henson could be a plaster for this season if he finds any form, Sweeney can be excellant and Parks can beat teams on his own sometimes.

Still, wouldnt mind having a Tovey, Priestland or Morgan

Comfort wrote:dog, we havent been anywhere near as potent a team as we should be since nicky left. I think Henson could be a plaster for this season if he finds any form, Sweeney can be excellant and Parks can beat teams on his own sometimes.

Still, wouldnt mind having a Tovey, Priestland or Morgan

I wouldn't mind you having a Biggar after friday night

comfort, you're quite right. we could be devistating with an attacking fh. however we have parks and sweeney as options and i would rather go with the boring parks and win with goals.

tbh, i have been a fan of sweeney (at club level) but he hasent played as much as parks this term, as far as i can remember. it is far too soon for henson. we need to see what he can do over christmas. we must stick with parks for our hec games.

i dont think we will go far but we will make the quaters.

HERSH wrote:You're right Comfort my post was unnecessary, we all know on their day the Welsh players can beat anyone so why is it that the Regions have failed again in the HC?

http://www.espnscrum.com/heineken-cup-2011-12/rugby/match/144316.html Leinster 52 - 27 Bath Rugby. According to you Bath were going to win the Heino this season HERSH?

beshocked wrote:AlynDavies if you think Ospreys had an easy group you are deluded. They had to take on the English champions - obviously that was their downfall. Saracens were not poorer than Ospreys. If they were they would have lost.

At did no point did I say anything about Saracens, I did state that the Ospreys should of done better in light of the fact they had an Italian team in their group, which is normally means the groups runner up normally gets the quarter final spot having won out in Italy. It's not disrespectful to say that it's simply fact, you have far more chance of beating Aironi or Treviso away then you would say the 2 best French or English teams.

Biarritz have been a shambles this year they started badly during the world Cup and seem to be getting worse despite having several high quality French internationals in their squad. The Ospreys should of done a lot better than they have. When you consider they are good enough to beat Munster's first choice squad at home, with 19 players away or injured, then you have to say drawing away at Treviso is a disappointment, as well as losing at home to Saracens considering Saracens did almost nothing for the entire game apart from 1 charge down try and a lot of time wasting.
You can also say the Ospreys record against Irish provinces this season is played 6, won 6, as well as already having beaten Treviso away in the league, so it's clear they just haven't preformed in Europe.

If Saracens did almost nothing during the game surely Ospreys should have strolled to victory?

Unfortunately for you Ospreys can't just turn up to the match and win. They have to fight for it.

Treviso are 6th in the Pro12. Above sides like the mighty and godlike Scarlets, the Scottish powerhouses Edinburgh and Irish giants, Ulster. They have been stronger than in previous years.

You see Treviso simply as poor because they are Italian. They have certainly much harder at home.

Very true Ospreys didn't perform in Europe but you disrespect the opposition.

Like other Ospreys fans you think the O's are better than they are. They were always going to struggle in this group.

beshocked wrote:If Saracens did almost nothing during the game surely Ospreys should have strolled to victory?

He might mean clock watching. Saracens spent a lot of time counting down the clock...! The crowd were going nuts at the ref for letting them do it...!

maestegmafia wrote:

beshocked wrote:If Saracens did almost nothing during the game surely Ospreys should have strolled to victory?

He might mean clock watching. Saracens spent a lot of time counting down the clock...! The crowd were going nuts at the ref for letting them do it...!

True Saracens did a lot of counting down the clock but Ospreys could have exploited it by scoring a try - basically taking the lead. The counting of the clock could have backfired.

I might be wrong but in the 2 matches I think Ospreys were never ahead of Saracens - always chasing the game.

Always harder for the team chasing.

Yep that was the difference.

Saracens were very professional, likewise the Ospreys were shockingly poor in conceding three tries through appalling defence.

beshocked wrote:
You see Treviso simply as poor because they are Italian. They have certainly much harder at home.

Very true Ospreys didn't perform in Europe but you disrespect the opposition.

Like other Ospreys fans you think the O's are better than they are. They were always going to struggle in this group.

He did not say Treviso were poor and being a follower of the RaboPro12 he would not think that. Anyone outside the Rabo (English) believe they are poor whilst we have been saying they are coming good and getting better each season. With another win over French opposition only now do you start to see.

Not sure how he is disrespecting the opposition. It was a very winnable group for Ospreys, there was little hope from fans anyway as they don't have enough penetration behing their forwards. I highlighted this to you before the double header. Also, Saracens continued their great form of last year and ended up pipping them twice. I think you are right, they need to go back to winning their domestic league and looking to build on again from there with the young-ish squad they have.

One for you Hersh from English rugby 'legend' Jeremy Guscott

Hi John, in the Heineken Cup only Sarries look assured of progressing. Quins and Leicester have reasonable chances and Bath, London Irish, Gloucester and Saints are pretty much gone. Looking at that it would suggest to me that the Premiership is far from the strongest league in Europe

munkian wrote:One for you Hersh from English rugby 'legend' Jeremy Guscott

Hi John, in the Heineken Cup only Sarries look assured of progressing. Quins and Leicester have reasonable chances and Bath, London Irish, Gloucester and Saints are pretty much gone. Looking at that it would suggest to me that the Premiership is far from the strongest league in Europe

Refreshing to see some realism from Guscott.

In a weird sort of way I am pleased Quins' win has overshadowed Sarries one. It means Sarries are under the radar. All the current hype surrounds Quins. Sarries are making lovely progress in the AP and HC so far.

I think in the HC so far the biggest disappointment has been Saints in regards to the English contenders.

The Welsh simply need to build up confidence. Learn from losses and move on.

Questions need to be asked - Is Biggar the right man to lead Ospreys? Do Scarlets have enough power up front? Is a new approach needed from a fresh coach?

If the coaching is indeed the problem who would you like to replace them? Who are the candidates?

One thing you Welsh are good at is blooding youngsters and throwing them in to battle. On the other hand I sometimes think for all their talent they lack the steel and bottle in the big matches.

Look at the recent tight encounters of Wales and Ospreys/Scarlets. They have been on the wrong end of close defeats.

A couple of things that has changed Saracens and Quins into tough sides to beat is that added steel and ability to win away from home.

I think the Welsh sides need more of that. I think for that they need to look outside their current coaching staff to get to the next level. It was Shaun Edwards (an Englishman) who gave Wales their bite in defence. It was a Kiwi (Gatland) who gave them that confidence.

I personally feel a fresh approach is needed for the regions.

As crazy as it sounds I believe Ospreys and Scarlets need to look at the likes of Nick Mallett,Dean Richards, David Ellis,Brian Ashton, etc. A more combatitive approach is needed in my opinion.

You definitely need to look outside Wales in my opinion for a fresh new approach. Forget about nationality, go for the best.

Imagine Dean Richards as new head coach of Ospreys!!

munkian wrote:One for you Hersh from English rugby 'legend' Jeremy Guscott

Hi John, in the Heineken Cup only Sarries look assured of progressing. Quins and Leicester have reasonable chances and Bath, London Irish, Gloucester and Saints are pretty much gone. Looking at that it would suggest to me that the Premiership is far from the strongest league in Europe

I think its more to do with players playing too many games, the Rabo lot can rest players and play their 3rds for league games as it will only disappoint the three men and a dog who bothered to go and watch it, every Jeff game is a high pressure fixture with thousands of passionate fans forking out their hard earned money to see the star studded teams.

So if you want fast free flowing rugby the Jeff is the best league in Europe even if it doesn't produce that many HC winners these days.

Hersh I am not sure I am convinced by that argument. Leicester,Quins and Saracens are all still in the HC mix. It's Bath,London Irish,Gloucester and especially Saints letting the English charge down this time.Too many losses at home.

Really can't understand Saints in particular.

HERSH wrote: the Rabo lot can rest players and play their 3rds for league games

Oh please - how can yo uplay your thirds when you only have 33/34 full professionals (like Ulster) . Many Rabo trams have less. Aviva teams do plenty of rotations as well

HERSH wrote: So if you want fast free flowing rugby the Jeff is the best league in Europe even if it doesn't produce that many HC winners these days.

Free flowing ! you didn't watch Falcons - Bath then. The lowest quality rugby I have seen this year.

You are second best to the Irish in the HC because your teams are not as good - simple

True geoff you are correct our teams are not as good as Leinster and Munster at the moment. Though saying that I think on a good day one of Saracens,Quins or Leicester could beat them. Leinster are obviously the best team in Europe and the team to beat but on a good day....

Connacht has been swept aside by Quins and Gloucester. Ulster have already lost to Leicester with the away leg to go. It isn't all one way traffic.

The strongest English teams have not yet met the strongest Irish sides in the HC.

In regards to rotation I would say that in the AP, Quins,Leicester and Sarries do it the most. Hardly a surprise their squads are in the best shape.

But Ulster are in a better situation than Leicester in the group and we will not know how they truly match up until the return league. In their comparable matches Ulster have done better - bonus point in Italy, which Leicester failed to do and a better result at home to Clermont (allbeit by only one point). Bottom line is I would rather be in our position than theirs

I would take a random head to head on neutral territory of Leinster, Ulster, Munster against Saracens, Leicester, Quins reasonably confident of the Irish coming out on top.

geoff998rugby wrote:You are second best to the Irish in the HC because your teams are not as good - simple

I'm not too worried that Bath (currently a mid table side at best) lost to the European champions away from home (in football terms you wouldn't expect a team like Everton to go to Barcelona and win.)

But I think my other point is valid, when you have a league that is competitive as the Jeff plus throw in relegation teams at the lower end are fighting for their lives unlike say Aironi who could field a development team against the likes of Leinster and Munster away (gifting them an easy game and win) plus there isn’t too many fans to upset in the Rabo if a team decides to field a weakened team a couple of weeks before a big HC fixture.

So the English teams will suffer burn out at some point of the season.

Regarding the QFinalists my crystal ball tells me:

2 French - Toulouse and Clermont
2 English - Quins and Saracens
2 Irish - Munster and Leinster
1 either Scottish or Welsh - Cardiff or Edinburgh
1 from the two above plus Ulster and maybe Scarlets

That would make 4 Pro12 teams and, possibly, Ireland having the most with 3

beshocked wrote:
Questions need to be asked - Is Biggar the right man to lead Ospreys? Do Scarlets have enough power up front? Is a new approach needed from a fresh coach?

If the coaching is indeed the problem who would you like to replace them? Who are the candidates?

I think the Welsh sides need more of that. I think for that they need to look outside their current coaching staff to get to the next level. It was Shaun Edwards (an Englishman) who gave Wales their bite in defence. It was a Kiwi (Gatland) who gave them that confidence.

I personally feel a fresh approach is needed for the regions.

As crazy as it sounds I believe Ospreys and Scarlets need to look at the likes of Nick Mallett,Dean Richards, David Ellis,Brian Ashton, etc. A more combatitive approach is needed in my opinion.

You definitely need to look outside Wales in my opinion for a fresh new approach. Forget about nationality, go for the best.

Imagine Dean Richards as new head coach of Ospreys!!

Agree completely.

Said it for a while now, but the Ospreys and Blues wont become consistent forces (and by that I mean Leinster/Munster/Leicester/Toulese) until they got top-level coaches in place. They've got the players there (by and large) and it was seen what can be done with those players when Gatland/Edwards got them for a few months before the world cup. Simple effective rugby, thats what is needed for the Ospreys and Blues. The scarlets have been weak up front (with a horribly dangerous backline) for years, but thats improving season on season, whereas the Blues/Ospreys seem to be going backwards.

The Scarlets: Nigel Davies I really rate as a coach, and you only have to see the difference in the Scarlets team over the last few seasons to see them really coming on and losing NWQ players in the process. They're improving slowly, and are a really young team.

The Dragons: need a front row. But I rate Darren Edwards for what he'll bring to Rodney Parade.

The Blues: a flyhalf, tighthead and top-level coach short of being the Welsh Leinster ( perhaps my blue-goggles are on). To me its that simple for them, its not a mental thing for the blues, we've seen what they can do on the "big" stages (i mean Amlin final in Europe, away to Toulon etc, beating Gloucester's first sstring by 40 odd+ in the LV - no league/Heineken cup - bar that horrible penalty semi defeat to Leicester).

The Ospreys: Need more penetration in midfield (Parker needs to start in place of Bishop - never thought Id say that), need a flyhalf who releases the ridiculous talents in that backline (and plays with their head up) and most importantly for them, they need to play with confidence. Im not even going to get into my thoughts on the coaching team at the ospreys, so low are those thoughts. SJ has done nothing but manage to take the team that beat Leinster in Ireland to win the League a couple of season ago to a team thats just lost their 6-year unbeaten European record (no disrespect or anything taken away from Saracens intended by that comment).

Sorry to hijack the thread, rant needed

You can never get past one hard fact when you throw up the argument that Pro 12 sides have an easier time preparing for Heineken Cup combat when compared to French and English sides.

The story goes that English premiership sides have to fight it out in a much tougher league, have to keep playing their best players for longer periods whilst the lazy 'Celtic' sides can yawn in performances in their little cozy show called the Pro 12. They can keep their best players in cotton wool all season and they don't have to raise a sweat when competing against each other in the Pro 12.

All very fine reasoning until you stop to ask yourself how can Pro 12 sides ever be prepared for the 'toughest club competition in the world' if they play in a lightweight league, keep their better players off the field and away from consistent match practice and more importantly match fitness? And how on earth can a side like Leinster throw up some of the performances they do in the 'toughest club competition in the world' on the back of week in/week out playschool rugby of the Pro 12.

Sides that compete in Heineken need the best conditioning, they need their best players up to speed form and fitness wise and they need to know what they can come up with when meeting the great warrior sides of England and France.

So the question is, if the Pro 12 sides have it easy, why haven't the battle-hardened warrior sides beaten the living daylights out of them year in year out? You can't have it both ways. We either have it too easy and your experience and toughness should always win out, or we simply know how to pace a season better (out of small number necessity) and manage when to peak better.

Anyway, an English or French side could win it this year, and then we'll be back to 'Celtic' sides not being strong enough to be part of the Heineken Cup party at all. You just never can win in sport, even when you do.

HERSH wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:You are second best to the Irish in the HC because your teams are not as good - simple

I'm not too worried that Bath (currently a mid table side at best) lost to the European champions away from home (in football terms you wouldn't expect a team like Everton to go to Barcelona and win.)

But I think my other point is valid, when you have a league that is competitive as the Jeff plus throw in relegation teams at the lower end are fighting for their lives unlike say Aironi who could field a development team against the likes of Leinster and Munster away (gifting them an easy game and win) plus there isn’t too many fans to upset in the Rabo if a team decides to field a weakened team a couple of weeks before a big HC fixture.

So the English teams will suffer burn out at some point of the season.

Bath having just lost away to Leinster though - they have lost, at least 6 games, on the bounce against Irish sides.

The top Jeff's sides can, and sometimes, do rotate players safe in the knowledge they will not get relegated - there is no way Newcastle or even Sale and Worcester are strong enough to finish above Leicester, Saracens or Northampton. These side make use of rotation to keep their players fresh.

Most Pro12 sides have smaller squads and therefore often have limited options with respect to team selection.
This year for example Ulster have player games without any fit 15, 1 or 12.
I just don't accept that the Aviva indulges in siginificantly less rotation at the bigger clubs.

geoff are really Ulster in a better situation? Leicester will essentially win the pool if they beat Ulster. Can anyone see Leicester losing to Aironi at home?

Leicester have Ulster away then Aironi at home, Ulster have Leicester at home then Clermont away.

Ulster are simply not as strong as Quins,Sarries and Leicester. Certainly not in my opinion anyway. Sure they can beat Bath but the other English sides?

Ulster are not on par with Leinster and Munster.

Sure Munster and Leinster would feel reasonably confident but Munster lost to Quins at Thomond park and Leicester/ Sarries are capable of big performances.


Comfort you are not hijacking the thread at all. I thought the topic was Welsh sides. Au contraire I think I have gone off topic!


The next questions should be who and why? Who should the Welsh regions recruit and why? Obviously be realistic.

Will a Welsh Region ever win the HC?

HERSH wrote: Will a Welsh Region ever win the HC?

Yes. Who's your team Hersh or are you just going to pick whichever English side that is doing well ?

I have no idea what you are on about?

No really I don't.

Which English team do you support and how are they doing ?

There seems to be plenty of WUMs on here chipping in at the Welsh teams not having great results recently but when you ask them how their team is fairing they go very quiet or they support ALL of them

I support ALL Irish sides...*cough, whistle*...............................


but I also then support my own side - Leinster

Hersh is a Bath fan. They are not doing great the moment.

English teams do in general struggle against Munster and Leinster.

I'll happily support all the regions but won't support one whose doing better over the Dragons (which they usually are...)

And Bath 'not doing great at the moment' is putting it very kindly

beshocked wrote: geoff are really Ulster in a better situation? Leicester will essentially win the pool if they beat Ulster. Can anyone see Leicester losing to Aironi at home?

In order to qualify Leicester need 5 points at Ulster. If Leicester get 4 points, at Ravenhill and Clermont get 5 points away to Aironi - Clermont go top. Sadly in such a scenario I reckon they will get 5 points at home to Ulster. Leicester are only hanging on by their finger tips in this groupp. A loss away at Ravenhill without a bonus point and they are out - as I say I would not swap.

beshocked wrote: Ulster are simply not as strong as Quins,Sarries and Leicester. Certainly not in my opinion anyway. Sure they can beat Bath but the other English sides?

Maybe not in depth but take Quins for example a first XV Ulster team matches up well against a Quins first XV.
Ulster regularly beat English sides at home (only Gloucester have won there in recent years) (includin a win against Leicester), and it is true Bath apart lose away - so on neutral territory even stevens.

beshocked wrote: Ulster are not on par with Leinster and Munster.

Never said they were but I would be prepared to put them up against the third English side whoever you feel they might be.

You are right this is about the Welsh so to come back on topic I believe the OP is incorrect Cardiff have an excellent chance and Scarlets a reasonable one so on balance, as I mentioend, I think we wil lbe seeing 4 Pro12 sides in the QF's and 1 will probably be Welsh.

Ulster are former HC champions too are they not ?

Exter are currently third in the Jeff, if a very poor Dragons team can run them close then Ulster could certainly beat them.

Something that confuses me is that when English sides were winning H cups English fans were saying it was because they were playing in "the toughest, most competitive league in Europe". Now that English teams are far less successful in the h cup it is because they play in "the toughest most competitive league in Europe". Which is it? The argument can't work both ways. The differences between the prem and the rabbo are the same now as eight years ago, ten years ago etc. so how can the "advantages" of the rabbo all of a sudden make these teams better?

As for which league has the highest standard, that would be the Top14.

I think the Welsh teams have dipped a bit recently but they're hardly rubbish. Munster have also dipped in standard. If it wasn't for a Mr O'Gara the Scarlets could be topping that pool now. One player can make a difference, but if it's only one player or one play that divides a team then it's impossible to say there is a gulf in standard or that one team is a great success and the other is a mess. A few changes here and there could see three seriously good Welsh sides become seriously successful sides.

You know. As soon as I see that HERSH has posted I am deterred from contributing to a thread.

beshocked wrote:

Ulster are simply not as strong as Quins,Sarries and Leicester. Certainly not in my opinion anyway. Sure they can beat Bath but the other English sides?

Big talk - lets see what happens at Ravenhill.

If Ulster arent as strong as Quins, Sarries or Leicester - would you also accept that those 3 teams quite frankly arent even in the same league as Leinster?

Beshocked, the million dollar questions im afraid.

The Blues need to spend some cash, problem is, they dont have cash, the CCS is stripping the coffers year after year and doing the opposite of what it was supposed to do. This is why Henson was brought in with a huge dose of "fingers crossed" - number 10 solved - in piemans eyes. Tighthead, well apparently Scott Andrews is a tighthead, after his performances lately, i wouldnt mind taking Gill off Sarries hands!

The Ospreys could do worse than Brian Ashton, I'd prefer to see Nick Mallet or Dean Richards though to be fair. the legacy dean richards left at harlequins is bearing fruit and O'Shea's doing a great job taking the club forward from where it was. Mallet though I think is an excellant coach and could do wonders with the players at the ospreys. But again, that wont happen, Cuddy would need to spend some cash, and if its something we do well in Wales, its overlook the difference between top-class coaching and championship-level coaching.

The blues should have money to spend once they get rid of Fiilse, Molitka, Tito, D Jones, M Williams, Blair and Rush at the end of the season (after his performances this season I'd be tempted to add Lualua to that list as well).

Artful_Dodger wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Ulster are simply not as strong as Quins,Sarries and Leicester. Certainly not in my opinion anyway. Sure they can beat Bath but the other English sides?

Big talk - lets see what happens at Ravenhill.

If Ulster arent as strong as Quins, Sarries or Leicester - would you also accept that those 3 teams quite frankly arent even in the same league as Leinster?

lot of big talk about Leicester coming to Ravenhill and winning. That would make them the first team in 3 years to do so in the heineken cup. I remember when Quins were flying (pre bloodgate) and they came to Ravenhill. They were well beaten that day. I cant see anyone other than Clermont winning our group but leicesters failure to get anything in France or more damningly in Italy has given ulster the advantage in this group.

As has been said. If we win by more than 7 Leicester are out.

Hopefully the Dragons will ditch Willis and Price - complete waste of money - always crocked

Yeah if the Dragons managed to get a decent front row they'd be a very good team

Smirnoffpriest wrote:The blues should have money to spend once they get rid of Fiilse, Molitka, Tito, D Jones, M Williams, Blair and Rush at the end of the season (after his performances this season I'd be tempted to add Lualua to that list as well).

"Should" being the operative word, i wouldnt be surprised to see most of that put towards the CCS for next years 'rent'. Thing is, once those guys have gone, we'll need to recruit in the backrow, and we'll need to recruit a class number 8 to replace Rush, he's been the go-to guy for a long time now. I'm still hoping they go balls-out for Delve, he's a perfect replacement for Rush. Parks should be gone aswell, so we'll need a new pivot aswell. Maybe Nicky would like to come home from Wasps!

The inexperienced coaching duo appear out of their depth, but I'll give them the full season before calling them failures/a success.

I'd liek to see a top-level head coach bought in over them though if they are successful, it'd be good for the continuity of the club and their development as coaches.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Yeah if the Dragons managed to get a decent front row they'd be a very good team

Wish we got Mitchell - he seems affective in the loose for Exeter anyway.

I thought you were signing Delve to replace Rush - and you've got replacements for Molitika and Tito in Downs, Patterson, Petorious and the other young lock you've got. You don't need to replace M WIlliams either.

Parks may go, but I wouldn't feel comfortable relying on Henson and Sweeney (both known to go missing in games) and Robinson is a risk as well as he can be very inconsistent.

The way I see it is that you get a like for like replacement at TH and No8 so no additional wages there - you loose M Williams, Tito, Molitika and Blair with replacements coming through the ranks - so all those wages (which must be quite substantial) all saved and then if you can find a replacement for Parks - then the same like for like (or maybe some one a bit cheaper).

I believe most of those players contracts are out at the end of the season, so they should be going as the Blues would be crazy to re-sign them.

I agree that the Blues need a top manager/coach - it's just a shame that Welsh rugby always coqks things up...

He would have been great for you or the Blues maybe you can steal him next season...

Our first choice props weren't too bad - ah well, always next season

Artful Dodger and standulsterman if Quins can beat Toulouse in Toulouse and Sarries can beat the O's at the Liberty then there is hope that Leicester can beat Ulster at Ravenhill.

I accept that because Leinster aren't in the same league are they? Leinster play in the Pro12, Leicester,Saracens and Quins play in the AP. Talk about stating the bloody obvious!

Geoff when Ulster have come up against one of the stronger English sides they have lost.

Ulster are an quite good team but not spectacular. Very strong at home but not the best away from home. Consequently at a neutral venue they would struggle.

I am sure Ulster are very tough at home and will give Leicester a run for their money but without notching up away wins they will never make an impact domestically and on the European stage.

munkian wrote:Ulster are former HC champions too are they not ?

Exter are currently third in the Jeff, if a very poor Dragons team can run them close then Ulster could certainly beat them.

In fairness, Exe did rest a number of players, plus I don't think we'll be in third come the end of the season - there's only 6 points separating 3rd from 10th

beshocked wrote:Artful Dodger and standulsterman if Quins can beat Toulouse in Toulouse and Sarries can beat the O's at the Liberty then there is hope that Leicester can beat Ulster at Ravenhill.

I accept that because Leinster aren't in the same league are they? Leinster play in the Pro12, Leicester,Saracens and Quins play in the AP. Talk about stating the bloody obvious!

Geoff when Ulster have come up against one of the stronger English sides they have lost.

Ulster are an quite good team but not spectacular. Very strong at home but not the best away from home. Consequently at a neutral venue they would struggle.

I am sure Ulster are very tough at home and will give Leicester a run for their money but without notching up away wins they will never make an impact domestically and on the European stage.

Right ...clearly you cant understand the context in which I was using the word 'league' either that or your just a pedant. I think probably the latter.

I dont really see why you are saying all this when you arent even a Leicester Tigers fan, whom by the way are all keeping their cards close to their chest instead of saying incredibly arrogant things like Ulster are simply not as strong as Leicester Tigers.

Lets be honest there is a solitary reason for you saying that Leicester Tigers are stronger than Ulster and thats the fact that they are an English team. But fair enough - predicting that they will be the first team to beat us at home in 3 Heineken Cup years is bold enough, I think its gonna be a home win.

edited - after mathematical error