Wlad K

Why does he split opinions so much. Sure he's been levelled and his chin has been found wanting. He's not the most exciting boxer either. Very safety, jab jab jab jab until the opponent goes to sleep along with a non German crowd. But damn, he is very effective at what he does.

He reminds me of Lewis but a slightly better boxer. Better jab and equally concussive puncher when he decides to unleash the right. Many may say that his opposition is not up to much. But a certain ATG HW had a bum of the month contest and not many seem to hold that against him. Also Lewis has been sparked out twice, yet many seem to ignore that and claim Wlad is chinny. His opposition is on par with Lewis also. Its not as though he's fighting blown up LHW who got beat by a welterweight or past it HWs. He's fighting abd beating the best available with ease.

If he were British or american, would we rate him higher? In terms of achievement, I'd rank him in the top 10/top 15 ATG Heavyweights.

What say you?

Agree that Wladimir is underappreciated to an extent, part of the problem being the looming presence of his older brother. Due to the pair of them being viewed often as an entity together, rather than being judged on their own individual merits (and of course because they will never fight each other), not many would be willing to say with absolute conviction that Wladimir is without doubt the best Heavyweight of his era, and as such any comparisons with Louis and the like go straight out of the window.

It's true that the Heavyweight division is historically littered with champions who have built a legacy upon beating largely unspectacular opposition, but even taking that in to account, Wladimir's list of vanquished foes still leaves a bit to be desired. Tyson's opposition sometimes takes a kicking on here, but I'd say that Tucker, Smith, Spinks and even a thirty-eight year old Holmes, collectively speaking, represents a better quality than Haye, Ibragimov, Chagaev and Peter.

That said, I do believe that there is some truth in your belief that many would rate him more kindly if here were American / British. Top ten is pushing the boat out too far, but the more I think about it, the more I find myself thinking that Wladimir should command a top twenty spot, albeit towards the low end.

88Chris05 wrote:Agree that Wladimir is underappreciated to an extent, part of the problem being the looming presence of his older brother. Due to the pair of them being viewed often as an entity together, rather than being judged on their own individual merits (and of course because they will never fight each other), not many would be willing to say with absolute conviction that Wladimir is without doubt the best Heavyweight of his era, and as such any comparisons with Louis and the like go straight out of the window.

It's true that the Heavyweight division is historically littered with champions who have built a legacy upon beating largely unspectacular opposition, but even taking that in to account, Wladimir's list of vanquished foes still leaves a bit to be desired. Tyson's opposition sometimes takes a kicking on here, but I'd say that Tucker, Smith, Spinks and even a thirty-eight year old Holmes, collectively speaking, represents a better quality than Haye, Ibragimov, Chagaev and Peter.

That said, I do believe that there is some truth in your belief that many would rate him more kindly if here were American / British. Top ten is pushing the boat out too far, but the more I think about it, the more I find myself thinking that Wladimir should command a top twenty spot, albeit towards the low end.

Very much agree that the Tyson era was grossly under-valued in terms of his opposition. Maybe because he walked through them who knows.

In a few years time people will be singing Wlad's praises. Appreicate what a great boxer he is now. As for Vit, I believe Wlad is the better technical boxer and would probably outpoint Vit.

Wlad's reign is very much comparible to Lewis' reign in terms of quality of opposition and since his last loss, has hardly looked like losing a round were it not for him taking a breather. That type of domination is hardly seen.

So you're saying that Chagaev and Haye are better heavyweights than Tua, Golota, Holyfield and Ruddock, i'd even take Briggs, Grant and Bruno over the majority of them.

wlad is a likeable guy, much more so than his brother. however it is wlad who has prevented vitali being recognised as the number 1 heavyweight of his era. if vitali hadnt had his injury problems he would have dominated the division and wlad would have had less titles and much less respect. wlad would have never beaten vitali at any point in their career, including now. boxing is a sport of will and confidence and it baffles me that people like to find reasons why wlad is better, when it is quite clear from how wlad acts that hes never believed he could be vitali.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:So you're saying that Chagaev and Haye are better heavyweights than Tua, Golota, Holyfield and Ruddock, i'd even take Briggs, Grant and Bruno over the majority of them.

Can you point out where I said that?

Lance wrote:wlad is a likeable guy, much more so than his brother. however it is wlad who has prevented vitali being recognised as the number 1 heavyweight of his era. if vitali hadnt had his injury problems he would have dominated the division and wlad would have had less titles and much less respect. wlad would have never beaten vitali at any point in their career, including now. boxing is a sport of will and confidence and it baffles me that people like to find reasons why wlad is better, when it is quite clear from how wlad acts that hes never believed he could be vitali.

How has Wlad preventing Vit from being the dominant HW? Wlad didn't cause his injury. I believe Wlad is a better boxer. Vit has the better chin no doubt. But Wlad has more to his game than Vit has and would utilise that to secure a points win.

azania wrote:

Lance wrote:wlad is a likeable guy, much more so than his brother. however it is wlad who has prevented vitali being recognised as the number 1 heavyweight of his era. if vitali hadnt had his injury problems he would have dominated the division and wlad would have had less titles and much less respect. wlad would have never beaten vitali at any point in their career, including now. boxing is a sport of will and confidence and it baffles me that people like to find reasons why wlad is better, when it is quite clear from how wlad acts that hes never believed he could be vitali.

How has Wlad preventing Vit from being the dominant HW? Wlad didn't cause his injury. I believe Wlad is a better boxer. Vit has the better chin no doubt. But Wlad has more to his game than Vit has and would utilise that to secure a points win.

the point is they are both preventing one another from being the dominant heavyweight. vitali cant go after the belts because wlad has them and wlad cant beat all top contenders because he wont fight his brother.
why has wlad consistently stated he would lose to vitali? im sure they train together and know each others games better than anyone. wlad is happy to be the second best heavyweight in the world. i honestly think if wlad said he wasnt sure who was the better fighter, then vitali would pursue the fight. he is ultra competitive in comparison to his brother. wlad admitting he is inferior makes it difficult to for vitali to be the one who asks for the fight, and assures he never has to take the ass wooping everyone around either klit camp seems to believe he would take

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:So you're saying that Chagaev and Haye are better heavyweights than Tua, Golota, Holyfield and Ruddock, i'd even take Briggs, Grant and Bruno over the majority of them.

Can you point out where I said that?

Who do think are the better heavyweights then?

Lewis' opposition has the added benefit of being more athletic than that of Wlads.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:So you're saying that Chagaev and Haye are better heavyweights than Tua, Golota, Holyfield and Ruddock, i'd even take Briggs, Grant and Bruno over the majority of them.

Can you point out where I said that?

Who do think are the better heavyweights then?

Lewis' opposition has the added benefit of being more athletic than that of Wlads.

lewis victories over vitali and holyfield massively outweigh anything wlad has done for me

Lance wrote:

azania wrote:

Lance wrote:wlad is a likeable guy, much more so than his brother. however it is wlad who has prevented vitali being recognised as the number 1 heavyweight of his era. if vitali hadnt had his injury problems he would have dominated the division and wlad would have had less titles and much less respect. wlad would have never beaten vitali at any point in their career, including now. boxing is a sport of will and confidence and it baffles me that people like to find reasons why wlad is better, when it is quite clear from how wlad acts that hes never believed he could be vitali.

How has Wlad preventing Vit from being the dominant HW? Wlad didn't cause his injury. I believe Wlad is a better boxer. Vit has the better chin no doubt. But Wlad has more to his game than Vit has and would utilise that to secure a points win.

the point is they are both preventing one another from being the dominant heavyweight. vitali cant go after the belts because wlad has them and wlad cant beat all top contenders because he wont fight his brother.
why has wlad consistently stated he would lose to vitali? im sure they train together and know each others games better than anyone. wlad is happy to be the second best heavyweight in the world. i honestly think if wlad said he wasnt sure who was the better fighter, then vitali would pursue the fight. he is ultra competitive in comparison to his brother. wlad admitting he is inferior makes it difficult to for vitali to be the one who asks for the fight, and assures he never has to take the ass wooping everyone around either klit camp seems to believe he would take

It is annoying that we have brothers as the HW champs. But it is what it is and we cant expect them to fight.

imo what Wlad says he would lose to Vit, I take that with a pinch of salt. Younger brother showing respect to his elder brother etc. I dont think I've heard Vit saying he would beat Wlad. Has he said that?

Moreover Foreman said that Lewis would beat him. And I thing he's also said that one of the K Bros would also beat him. In fact Foreman has said many HW's would beat him. I'll take that with all the salt in the dead sea.

I can never imagine a scenarion that 2 brothers would ever fight in a boxing match. Imagine if a serious injury occurred. Come off it lance. Do you actually want them to fight?

Have you seen the williams sisters play a competitive match against one another? A seriously boring affair.

the williams sister matches are the most competitive i have seen in womens tennis in a long time. personally i think vitali is up for the fight and yes i have heard him mention on several occassions he would beat wlad and is the best heavyweight. wlad clearly isnt up for the fight. wether he is a better boxer or not wouldnt matter, vitali would be much more game and focused. i actually like wlad, i think he is a sportsman, which isnt often the case with boxers. vitali annoys me, he is over competitive and extremely arrogant, but just looking at how they act, it is clear to me wlad knowing vitali better than anyone, knows he wouldnt win

vitali is desparate to prove hes better than wlad. thats why he will give in to haye demands and fight him. because knocking out the guy wlad failed to hurt most recently sends a statement to those who doubt him. if he could fight wlad he would, but if wlad admits vitali is better, how can he make the fight when his family tell him he has nothing to prove

Lance wrote:the williams sister matches are the most competitive i have seen in womens tennis in a long time. personally i think vitali is up for the fight and yes i have heard him mention on several occassions he would beat wlad and is the best heavyweight. wlad clearly isnt up for the fight. wether he is a better boxer or not wouldnt matter, vitali would be much more game and focused. i actually like wlad, i think he is a sportsman, which isnt often the case with boxers. vitali annoys me, he is over competitive and extremely arrogant, but just looking at how they act, it is clear to me wlad knowing vitali better than anyone, knows he wouldnt win

I have to disagree with the williams sisters. Their matches are hardly ever competitive. Its either a 2 set game one way or the other. Only occassionaly does it go to a decider.

You may believe that Vit would beat Wlad. Matter of opinion. But I have serious doubts if Vit would be up for it. Its ludicrous to suggest that he would fight his brother.

Personally I dont like either brother as boxers. Just appreciate their greatness and skill. All this sportsman and humble malarky gets on my jubblies.

Lance wrote:vitali is desparate to prove hes better than wlad. thats why he will give in to haye demands and fight him. because knocking out the guy wlad failed to hurt most recently sends a statement to those who doubt him. if he could fight wlad he would, but if wlad admits vitali is better, how can he make the fight when his family tell him he has nothing to prove

You're reading this like a Holywood script. I dont believe Vit wants Haye to prove he is better than Wlad. He wants Haye because it represents a bigger payday, Strickly business.

How many boxing brothers have fought each other in a competitive match with such high stakes? This isn't tennis where a mistake is 15-0. As tex cobb said in boxing a mistake is your a$$.

azania wrote:

Lance wrote:the williams sister matches are the most competitive i have seen in womens tennis in a long time. personally i think vitali is up for the fight and yes i have heard him mention on several occassions he would beat wlad and is the best heavyweight. wlad clearly isnt up for the fight. wether he is a better boxer or not wouldnt matter, vitali would be much more game and focused. i actually like wlad, i think he is a sportsman, which isnt often the case with boxers. vitali annoys me, he is over competitive and extremely arrogant, but just looking at how they act, it is clear to me wlad knowing vitali better than anyone, knows he wouldnt win

I have to disagree with the williams sisters. Their matches are hardly ever competitive. Its either a 2 set game one way or the other. Only occassionaly does it go to a decider.

You may believe that Vit would beat Wlad. Matter of opinion. But I have serious doubts if Vit would be up for it. Its ludicrous to suggest that he would fight his brother.

Personally I dont like either brother as boxers. Just appreciate their greatness and skill. All this sportsman and humble malarky gets on my jubblies.

i like wlads personality but find him boring as a boxer. vitali is the exact opposite. cant stand the guy but think hes good entertainment as a fighter. problem is a lot of people take the worst from both of them and judge them both by it.

azania wrote:

Lance wrote:vitali is desparate to prove hes better than wlad. thats why he will give in to haye demands and fight him. because knocking out the guy wlad failed to hurt most recently sends a statement to those who doubt him. if he could fight wlad he would, but if wlad admits vitali is better, how can he make the fight when his family tell him he has nothing to prove

You're reading this like a Holywood script. I dont believe Vit wants Haye to prove he is better than Wlad. He wants Haye because it represents a bigger payday, Strickly business.

How many boxing brothers have fought each other in a competitive match with such high stakes? This isn't tennis where a mistake is 15-0. As tex cobb said in boxing a mistake is your a$$.

this bigger payday is just propoganda to make haye seem a bigger draw than he is. vitali wont earn as much from haye as he did from adamek. adamek is a much bigger draw than haye, hence why he went to poland to fight him. haye cant even sell out the o2 arena

Lance wrote:

azania wrote:

Lance wrote:vitali is desparate to prove hes better than wlad. thats why he will give in to haye demands and fight him. because knocking out the guy wlad failed to hurt most recently sends a statement to those who doubt him. if he could fight wlad he would, but if wlad admits vitali is better, how can he make the fight when his family tell him he has nothing to prove

You're reading this like a Holywood script. I dont believe Vit wants Haye to prove he is better than Wlad. He wants Haye because it represents a bigger payday, Strickly business.

How many boxing brothers have fought each other in a competitive match with such high stakes? This isn't tennis where a mistake is 15-0. As tex cobb said in boxing a mistake is your a$$.

this bigger payday is just propoganda to make haye seem a bigger draw than he is. vitali wont earn as much from haye as he did from adamek. adamek is a much bigger draw than haye, hence why he went to poland to fight him. haye cant even sell out the o2 arena

A fraction of the money comes from ticket sales.

[quote="azania"]

Lance wrote:

azania wrote:

Lance wrote:vitali is desparate to prove hes better than wlad. thats why he will give in to haye demands and fight him. because knocking out the guy wlad failed to hurt most recently sends a statement to those who doubt him. if he could fight wlad he would, but if wlad admits vitali is better, how can he make the fight when his family tell him he has nothing to prove

You're reading this like a Holywood script. I dont believe Vit wants Haye to prove he is better than Wlad. He wants Haye because it represents a bigger payday, Strickly business.

How many boxing brothers have fought each other in a competitive match with such high stakes? This isn't tennis where a mistake is 15-0. As tex cobb said in boxing a mistake is your a$$.

this bigger payday is just propoganda to make haye seem a bigger draw than he is. vitali wont earn as much from haye as he did from adamek. adamek is a much bigger draw than haye, hence why he went to poland to fight him. haye cant even sell out the o2 arena

A fraction of the money comes from ticket sales]

i know its hard to realise when you live in england, and only ever hear the view of english press. which includes when the klits talk in english to the english media. but i spend most of my time working in germany these days, and i assure the klits were no more desparate to get haye in the ring than adamek, povetkin and valuev. when they come to england they sell haye as their biggest fight, in poland its adamek and so on. i also heard vitali made more fighting arreola than wlad did fighting haye.

I find it odd that Rocky's opposition is trashed so vehemently but Wlad gets a free ride. It was stronger than Wlad's and he has an 0 where Wlad has a 3(3KO). He also didn't have the luxury of not having to face the best.

My opinion of Wlad is pretty simple. His opposition is terrible. Probably the weakest era since between Dempsey/Tunney and Louis. I hear that he can only beat what's put infront of him but he hasn't always. He's fought no great fighters, thus beaten no great fighters but still has losses. How many heavyweights knocking on the door of the top ten are 0-1 to guys like Sanders? Tyson rarely cracks the top ten and all his losses before he was shot and fighting for a sandwich were to greats. His wins too were greater.

His legacy aside, I'm also not as convinced as you are by his abilities. You say his boxing ability is better than Lewis' but his punch variety is nothing like as good and he hasn't controlled anybody half as well as Lewis did Holyfield. Not as much punch variety either. You mention his concussive power, but Lewis was nailing top fighters early. Wlad landed on the chin of Haye and never looked like putting him down. I'm just not convinced by either K boy.

A very good champ fighting in a very poor era. nowhere near top 15 for me, maybe top 50 at a push. But still, a likable guy doing his job, even i that job does involve retiring pensioner cruiserweights.... Mormeck pending....

[quote="Lance"]

azania wrote:

Lance wrote:

azania wrote:

Lance wrote:vitali is desparate to prove hes better than wlad. thats why he will give in to haye demands and fight him. because knocking out the guy wlad failed to hurt most recently sends a statement to those who doubt him. if he could fight wlad he would, but if wlad admits vitali is better, how can he make the fight when his family tell him he has nothing to prove

You're reading this like a Holywood script. I dont believe Vit wants Haye to prove he is better than Wlad. He wants Haye because it represents a bigger payday, Strickly business.

How many boxing brothers have fought each other in a competitive match with such high stakes? This isn't tennis where a mistake is 15-0. As tex cobb said in boxing a mistake is your a$$.

this bigger payday is just propoganda to make haye seem a bigger draw than he is. vitali wont earn as much from haye as he did from adamek. adamek is a much bigger draw than haye, hence why he went to poland to fight him. haye cant even sell out the o2 arena

A fraction of the money comes from ticket sales]

i know its hard to realise when you live in england, and only ever hear the view of english press. which includes when the klits talk in english to the english media. but i spend most of my time working in germany these days, and i assure the klits were no more desparate to get haye in the ring than adamek, povetkin and valuev. when they come to england they sell haye as their biggest fight, in poland its adamek and so on. i also heard vitali made more fighting arreola than wlad did fighting haye.

I doubt if he made more against Arreola that Wlad did against Haye. PPV sales for one meant more money to Wlad. I read Wlad had the biggest payday against Haye.

I believe Vit is calling out Haye for money and for all the trash talking Haye did. Likewise Vit was calling Lewis out up until a couple of years ago because it represented money and revenge. Its all business first though. If a boxer ever claims he is fighting for anything other than money, I'll show you a liar. Its always money first. And so it should be. They take the risks not the fans.

wlad also made more against ibragimov than he did against haye. too many people have been gullable to hayes big mouth, but only in england.

Lance wrote:wlad also made more against ibragimov than he did against haye. too many people have been gullable to hayes big mouth, but only in england.

The PPV sales in UK was quite high and the %age they got from that boosted their purse. I doubt very much if Wlad got more for Ibragimov.

azania wrote:

Lance wrote:wlad also made more against ibragimov than he did against haye. too many people have been gullable to hayes big mouth, but only in england.

The PPV sales in UK was quite high and the %age they got from that boosted their purse. I doubt very much if Wlad got more for Ibragimov.

you can doubt it all you like. as i say its hard to see past years of propoganda from the british media.
wlad ibragimov fought in america for a reason. they tried to take the haye fight to either america or england but found there was not enough interest.

Wlads career high payday was Haye due to the UK PPV, no propaganda just common sense and fact. 700,000 PPV buys would suggest interest was very high in this country.

Lance wrote:

azania wrote:

Lance wrote:wlad also made more against ibragimov than he did against haye. too many people have been gullable to hayes big mouth, but only in england.

The PPV sales in UK was quite high and the %age they got from that boosted their purse. I doubt very much if Wlad got more for Ibragimov.

you can doubt it all you like. as i say its hard to see past years of propoganda from the british media.
wlad ibragimov fought in america for a reason. they tried to take the haye fight to either america or england but found there was not enough interest.

Fortunately I'm immune to propaganda. The reason it was fought in USA was to try and raise Wlad's stock. It gained little interest hence the Haye fight was held in Germany at a time which suited Euro viewers. It was also shown live in USA because of Haye's mouth selling it. Added that it was a unification fight against the only person deemed to be able to beat the K bros (Haye selling it as such).

Strickly business mate.

Can't rank him in the top 15 I'm afraid....

Vitali let the cat out of the bag when he said his best opponent was Lennox Lewis....So that's a 38 yr old overblown heavy well on the slide!! and had he beat Lewis the win would be better than anything Wlad achieved...

Lewis beat Holyfield, Tyson, Mercer, ruddock etc....guys with proven calibre...

No!! longevity alone shouldn't hit the top 15....and longevity is all he has got..

Lewis avenged his losses...didn't get his brother to do it for him..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Can't rank him in the top 15 I'm afraid....

Vitali let the cat out of the bag when he said his best opponent was Lennox Lewis....So that's a 38 yr old overblown heavy well on the slide!! and had he beat Lewis the win would be better than anything Wlad achieved...

Lewis beat Holyfield, Tyson, Mercer, ruddock etc....guys with proven calibre...

No!! longevity alone shouldn't hit the top 15....and longevity is all he has got..

Lewis avenged his losses...didn't get his brother to do it for him..

Wlada,ir klitschko also beat mercer

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Can't rank him in the top 15 I'm afraid....

Vitali let the cat out of the bag when he said his best opponent was Lennox Lewis....So that's a 38 yr old overblown heavy well on the slide!! and had he beat Lewis the win would be better than anything Wlad achieved...

Lewis beat Holyfield, Tyson, Mercer, ruddock etc....guys with proven calibre...

No!! longevity alone shouldn't hit the top 15....and longevity is all he has got..

Lewis avenged his losses...didn't get his brother to do it for him..

Ruddock had something like 4 losses in 6 fight's in his prime whilst getting KO'd early in his career, he proceeded to fight journeymen for the second half of his career.Lewis- Mercer, was a very close fight ( i had it a draw) and although he was 5 or 6 years older when Ray fought Wlad he was completely battered, being knocked down in round 1 and stopping in 6 with his face like a baloon.

Lewis was far better than Wlad he would have destroyed him if they fought look at how he destroyed Vitali who was better than Wlad imo. Lewis had far more skill than Wlad who is not as good. Wlad has a good jab but Lewis was much better if the fought Lewis would knock him out.

Waingro for the love of god stop describing every victory as a destruction, Lewis beat Vitali on cuts whilst behind on the cards, a legitimate win but by no means does it constitute destroying him.

rowley wrote:Waingro for the love of god stop describing every victory as a destruction, Lewis beat Vitali on cuts whilst behind on the cards, a legitimate win but by no means does it constitute destroying him.

Look at Vitalis face mate it was completely bashed up and shredded from Lewis that shows how badly destroyed he was. He was very lucky they stopped it when they did or else he was going to get knocked out badly by Lewis who was getting stronger in the fight. Lets not forget this was Lewis who was at his worst he said so himself. If Lewis was at his best he would have knocked Vitali quicker imo but he had to take the fight at short notice and was not in his best shape.

Waingro wrote:If Lewis was at his best he would have knocked Vitali quicker imo but he had to take the fight at short notice and was not in his best shape.

Whereas Vitali had six months to prepare, they just kept it secret from Lewis he was going to be fighting him, dastardly when you think about it.

Waingro wrote:

rowley wrote:Waingro for the love of god stop describing every victory as a destruction, Lewis beat Vitali on cuts whilst behind on the cards, a legitimate win but by no means does it constitute destroying him.

Look at Vitalis face mate it was completely bashed up and shredded from Lewis that shows how badly destroyed he was. He was very lucky they stopped it when they did or else he was going to get knocked out badly by Lewis who was getting stronger in the fight. Lets not forget this was Lewis who was at his worst he said so himself. If Lewis was at his best he would have knocked Vitali quicker imo but he had to take the fight at short notice and was not in his best shape.

Yeah rowley, look at his face. Total mash up. Are you blind or summink?

rowley wrote:

Waingro wrote:If Lewis was at his best he would have knocked Vitali quicker imo but he had to take the fight at short notice and was not in his best shape.

Whereas Vitali had six months to prepare, they just kept it secret from Lewis he was going to be fighting him, dastardly when you think about it.

This is why there was no point in a rematch Lewis said he was at his worst and he still beat Vitali so what was the point in a rematch if he had gotten into to shape it would have been one sided so there was no point. As for Wlad there is no way this guy beats Lewis he has a worse chin than Vitali so as soon as Lewis landed the fight would be over. Dont get me wrong the Klitchkos are quality fighters but they are not in the same class as Lewis who was one of the best ever.

Waingro, not that I dispute your points, its the manner in which they're delivered.

Lewis beat Vitali but it wasn't a destruction. Far from it, it was a win due to a cut. End of. You could argue Vitali would have won a decision if it had carried on.

Lewis was amazing, and was better than either Klitschko - but seriously, think of your words more.

Waingro wrote:

rowley wrote:

Waingro wrote:If Lewis was at his best he would have knocked Vitali quicker imo but he had to take the fight at short notice and was not in his best shape.

Whereas Vitali had six months to prepare, they just kept it secret from Lewis he was going to be fighting him, dastardly when you think about it.

This is why there was no point in a rematch Lewis said he was at his worst and he still beat Vitali so what was the point in a rematch if he had gotten into to shape it would have been one sided so there was no point. As for Wlad there is no way this guy beats Lewis he has a worse chin than Vitali so as soon as Lewis landed the fight would be over. Dont get me wrong the Klitchkos are quality fighters but they are not in the same class as Lewis who was one of the best ever.

To me the fight just looked like Lewis getting badly beaten up and on the verge on being dropped in round 2. He knew he didn't have the stamina to last much longer so had to try something, took a big looping swing at Vitali in the start of round 3 and cut him badly, he still managed to lose rounds despite his opponent seeing out of one eye. Lewis was a great fighter, maybe slightly better than Vitali but on any given night i see it no more than 55/45 Lewis on who wins. Had we seen a rematch i think it would have been a more cagey affair with Vitali winning on points.

Lewis was by no means getting beaten up, he was down on the cards but it wasn't one lucky punch that opened a series of cuts on Vitalis face but a series of accurate ones, a few years prior to that would have to make Lewis a 80/20 favourite.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Lewis was by no means getting beaten up, he was down on the cards but it wasn't one lucky punch that opened a series of cuts on Vitalis face but a series of accurate ones, a few years prior to that would have to make Lewis a 80/20 favourite.

Look at round 2, Lewis was holding on for dear life and was almost dropped twice. After the cut he opened up another one on Vitali's cheek, there would have been something wrong with Lewis if he hadn't been able to do more damage considering the horrific cut above VK's eye, which meant he couldn't see right hands. The reason the fight was stopped..

Lets look at round 6 where Vitali was holding on for dear life, Lewis at his worst still had too much for Vitali so can't imagine he'd have had much trouble a few years prior.

Yes, no wonder after being hit by two of Lewis' best uppercuts and hardly being able to see. I'm not disagreeing that cut's aren't a viable way of winning a fight i just think Lewis got a bit lucky to open one when he was clearly in trouble, he took advantage and won so fair play. I just think he was pretty lucky that day and probably knew he might not be so fortunate next time.

Waingro wrote:Lewis was far better than Wlad he would have destroyed him if they fought look at how he destroyed Vitali who was better than Wlad imo. Lewis had far more skill than Wlad who is not as good. Wlad has a good jab but Lewis was much better if the fought Lewis would knock him out.

Ffs

He won fair and square at the end of his career, he had nothing to gain or prove by fighting Vitali again.

monty junior wrote:Yes, no wonder after being hit by two of Lewis' best uppercuts and hardly being able to see. I'm not disagreeing that cut's aren't a viable way of winning a fight i just think Lewis got a bit lucky to open one when he was clearly in trouble, he took advantage and won so fair play. I just think he was pretty lucky that day and probably knew he might not be so fortunate next time.

Mate Lewis was at his worst that night he said so himself. He had to take the fight at short notice. Imagine what would have happened if Lewis was at his best?? This is why there would be no point in a rematch Lewis had already smashed Vitali up when he was at his worst. Lewis was not in trouble he took Vitalis best shots and laughed this shows that Vitali would not be able to knock him out easily tbh Vitali was lucky the fight was stopped or Lewis would have knocked him out. He was getting stronger in the fight and Vitali could not see. Saying Lewis was behind on the cards is harsh if the fight went on longer he would have started to beat Vitali up the only reason he was behind was because it was stopped early and that was because Vitali was starting to get destroyed his face was a mess.

Think for me the stoppage was right at the time and as such Lewis deserves credit for gaining a legitimate win over a decent fighter but it has to be mitigated, cuts cannot be guaranteed so are always a touch fortunate, although he did well to exploit it once it opened.

But this all has to be mitigated against the fact he was behind on the cards at the time of the stoppage and there was another six rounds to go, I personally think Lewis was getting on top but at 38 is equally as possible if Vitali was still there at around the nine round mark Lewis could have been blowing out of his rear end and there for the taking, ten years is a lot to spot a good fighter, too much still to be decided in the fight for anyone to say for definite what would of happened or to claim anyone got destroyed.

Its getting tiring when all Lewis' poor performances or defeats are washed away by saying he didn't prepare properly or he had short notice (as in the Vit case). Vit was more than holding his own anyway. And he also had 2 weeks to prepare for Lewis. Lewis is supposed to be a pro boxer and should be ready for any fight.

He was prepared, he was in training for another fight that fell through. Vit is just a damn fine fighter at that time and gave lewis hell before the cuts. No way was he hanging on for dear life. Yes he took punches. So did Lewis and if memory serves me right, Lewis looked more likely to get floored than Vit.

It wasn't Lewis at his worse regardless of what Lewis said. Vit just made him look bad. Give credit to Vit.

When was Lewis worse then?

Vitali was in more trouble than Lewis by the end, cut or no cut. If we were to see Vitali in that state today in a fight people would think he was finished. We weren't used to seeing Lewis so fat and were shocked. Hence why it seemed Vitali was on the up when the fight was stopped. Rubbish, that uppercut in the sixth nearly had Vitali off his feet, all the big shots were coming from Lewis, my money would have been on him to stop Vitali in another couple.

azania wrote:Its getting tiring when all Lewis' poor performances or defeats are washed away by saying he didn't prepare properly or he had short notice (as in the Vit case). Vit was more than holding his own anyway. And he also had 2 weeks to prepare for Lewis. Lewis is supposed to be a pro boxer and should be ready for any fight.

He was prepared, he was in training for another fight that fell through. Vit is just a damn fine fighter at that time and gave lewis hell before the cuts. No way was he hanging on for dear life. Yes he took punches. So did Lewis and if memory serves me right, Lewis looked more likely to get floored than Vit.

It wasn't Lewis at his worse regardless of what Lewis said. Vit just made him look bad. Give credit to Vit.

When was the last time Lewis looked in such poor shape, he was preparing to fight Johnson who was also a fat mess. Lewis doesn't get any credit for giving Vitali a shot at such short notice, knowing how poorly he had prepared.