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Waiting List
1. pullthestrings
2. Bathite

The thing is if you are flying around the park chasing crazy balls you will always have some missed tackle stats. Moody often had a few missed tackles


its the same as if you bosh it up a lot you have more carries. look at 36 vs Farrel stats the other day.

Saull is a type of flanker and one we should get involved. been great against quins and Glos in his last 2 games.

Lets see if he is in!!

FORWARDS: Mouritz Botha (Saracens), Calum Clark (Northampton), Dan Cole (Leicester), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Tom Croft (Leicester), Louis Deacon (Leicester), Phil Howson (Northampton), Dylan Hartley (Northampton), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Lee Mears (Bath), Ben Morgan (Scarlets), Tom Palmer (Stade Francais), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Matt Stevens (Saracens), Rob Webber (Wasps), David Wilson (Bath), Tom Wood (Northampton)

BACKS: Chris Ashton (Northampton), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester), Ben Foden (Northampton), Charlie Hodgson (Saracens), Charlie Sharples (Gloucester), Joe Simpson (Wasps), David Strettle (Saracens), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester), Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester)




England squad leaked

Just read that in Daily Mail online...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2084879/Six-Nations-2012-England-squad-revealed.html

if thats the squad you would have to be annoyed

Why annoyed Matt?

Couple of debatables but overall I think that's a very good squad

No Trinder, No Robson,No Saull + Rob Webber +Maurtiz Botha+ Phil Dowson+ David Wilson= annoyed

England Elite Player Squad:

FORWARDS: (18)

Mouritz Botha (Saracens), Calum Clark (Northampton Saints), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers), Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Lee Mears (Bath Rugby), Ben Morgan (Scarlets), Tom Palmer (Stade Francais), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Matt Stevens (Saracens), Rob Webber (London Wasps), David Wilson (Bath Rugby), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

BACKS: (14) Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Charlie Hodgson (Saracens), Joe Simpson (London Wasps), Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby), David Strettle (Saracens), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England Saxons Elite Player Squad: (32)

FORWARDS: (18)

David Attwood (Bath Rugby), Chris Brooker (Harlequins), Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints), Matt Garvey (London Irish), James Gaskell (Sale Sharks), Jamie Gibson (London Irish), Joe Gray (Harlequins), Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors), Luke Narraway (Gloucester Rugby), David Paice (London Irish), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), George Robson (Harlequins), Andrew Saull (Saracens), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks), Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers), Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)

BACKS: (14)

Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby), Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers), Delon Armitage (London Irish), Matt Banahan (Bath Rugby), Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby), Karl Dickson (Harlequins), Alex Goode (Saracens), Jonathan Joseph (London Irish), Ryan Lamb (Northampton Saints), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Ugo Monye (Harlequins), Henry Trinder (Gloucester Rugby), Billy Twelvetrees (Leicester Tigers), Micky Young (Leicester Tigers)

Same old problem for England as far as I can see to be honest. If you look at the two squads there is very little difference in terms of quality. What is needed is for players to stand up and take their chance and for the coaches to quickly identify who is going to make it long term and then make the tough decision of cutting those who won't.

Attwood, Goode, Parling and Trinder step up for the 6 Nations to replace the injured Lawes, Flood, Deacon and Tuilagi.

A bottleless selection of players and a massive disappointment all round!!. Dismayed

Nick Easter and Waldrom are unlucky. only picking one number 8 is bonkers. You cant play someone who occasionally operates there it is one of the most crucial positions.


I am seething with anger here

feel like sending back my tickets for the internationals. Where has form been rewarded?

I don;t know Pete for the first time that I can remember the England squad has been largely picked on form through the top 4 teams in the league - large Saints contingent, and the form players from Quins, Tigers and Sarries.

Some good young players in the Saxons too - shows a clear development plan from u20s upwards - if they do well in Saxons then they will go up - thinking Henry Thomas, Launchbury, Gibson in the forwards and Burns, Trinder and May in the backs.

Interestingly Spencer is excluded from both after being tipped by 3-4 pundits on Sky Sports to make main EPS.

Clark, Stevens, Simspon, Corbs, Deacon, Mears where is their form??

Also looks like he could be building his team around leadership quality - got a lot of club captains/pack leaders in that team - Clark former u20 captain, Webber one of Wasps 3 captains. Dowson, Robshaw etc both leaders.

So what's the team then?

Corbs has been ok since the world cup, has had one or two below par performances, but you have to have some continuity in the squad Mat, you can't just continually select the AP form players or you'd be changing the whole squad almost every 6 months.

I genuinely don't know what to make of the selection to be honest. There are some good and some not so good bits. I reckon you could make a passable starting England XV from both of the squads.

webber was another that should not be in. never going to make it as an international.


Agree Pete you could make a good side from both the squads

Wilson, Clark, webber, mears, deacon, dowson. Disappointed. Almost prefer the Saxons!

I like the squads. Wonder where Luke Wallace is in the Saxons though.

Would like to see the reasons for Banahan, Monye, Waldrom and Narraway being in the Saxons. Just there incase of injury to experienced players?

Surprised (and pleased) to see so many of my own players in there. Dickson (Lee and Karl) and Marler.

for me the starting XV should now be

1 Corbisiero
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Attwood
5 Parling
6 Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan
9 Youngs
10 Hodgson
11 Sharples
12 Barritt
13 Farrell
14 Ashton
15 Foden

Saxons

1 Wood
2 Paice
3 Doran-Jones
4 Garvey
5 Robson
6 Johnson
7 Saull
8 Waldrom
9 Young
10 Lamb
11 Monye
12 Twelvetrees
13 Joseph
14 May
15 Armitage

Dont know what all the doom and gloom is about - think it is a good overall squad that can dip into the Saxons if and when required. Can't just be youth as we'd lose and look what happened to Tait when he got thrown in too early.

If May, Trinder etc continue to improve then they will come into the team - don;t think that there are any glaring emissions from either squad.

stnick88 wrote:for me the starting XV should now be

1 Corbisiero
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Attwood
5 Parling
6 Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan
9 Youngs
10 Hodgson
11 Sharples
12 Barritt
13 Farrell
14 Ashton
15 Foden

Saxons

1 Wood
2 Paice
3 Doran-Jones
4 Garvey
5 Robson
6 Johnson
7 Saull
8 Waldrom
9 Young
10 Lamb
11 Monye
12 Twelvetrees
13 Joseph
14 May
15 Armitage

nick i would have farrel at 12 and Trinder at 13 but after that you would be right. Also you have to have palmer at 5 every day

Farrell / Trinder wouldnt be strong enough defensively for me, especially with hodgson at 10. need Barritt in there.

Anyone else think our front five could get a bit of a roughing up against Scotland pack?

Think we are going to need Farrells boot in the starting XV against the Scots, as Hodgson can't do that on his own. From sounds of it Flood and Tuilagi will be back in time and so will Lawes.

I'm pretty happy with the squad tbh, some odd calls on form but we need some experience in there. I think all in all we've picked the best we currently have.

We will definitley need Palmer against the sweaties. Cole is a top prop. The rest of the front row is not great.

We are an average side with an average squad. there is a lot of work needing to be done thats for sure.

we need to look at 4 years time and use this as our basis for everything

I made that point on another thread last night Mat, we have an average side that we big up as world beaters when they are not.

It's the best we have though, bit surprised with Clark as he's a better 6 and we have Robshaw, Croft, Wood there. Would have liked to have seen a 7 like Wallace put in. Perhaps a little Leeds bias....

Its an average side that has a lot of potential and can play a more expansive brand of rugby. Lancaster just has to bring through the players well and get them playing together in a way that builds for 2015.

You can hardly say we wont have one of the best lineouts come 6Nations with Croft, Wood, Lawes and Palmer there - Hartley's throwing is very good now and if we have Farrell in the side we have a very clever tactical kicker that we havent had since...well an onform Wilkinson.

If it rains in Scotland though we are pretty much screwed.

talk of wallace is bizarre. how many games has he played??

He has gone missing in some of the bigger ones. I think he is top top talent and think he will become a great player but i think even the saxons is to soon for him currently.

I do however think he is a massive hope for the future. i would have him and may as are biggest hopes moving forward for the backs and forwards.

May's definitely one of the most exciting prospects we have in the backline - be interesting to see who he takes with him. Good thing with Wood and Croft is that it means we could have two scrummagers in the second row for the Scotland game.

Do like Wallace, but think Launchbury is the biggest prospect in the forwards - apart from maybe Gibson at Irish. He's the player Wasps have missed the most.

Captaincy between Hartley and Wood I think.

Wallace has looked great everytime I've seen him usually behind a beaten up front 5, so not really that bizarre. Really like the look of him and would have done him wonders training with the first team.

Pooly i think the likes of May, Ford, Wallace etc should have been in a training squad that trained with the first team. I have said it before but it really works. NZ and england under SCW did it and it great.

However to be given an EPS place after a handful of games i am not in favour of

Could make back row selectiona bit more straight forward.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16526874.stm

Gutted. i am a fan of him being captain

Was pretty much a sure starter too.

6. Croft
7. Robshaw
8. ?

Morgan

It's not nailed on yet, but it is possible he might miss something.

Only really got Morgan as an 8. Dowson and Robshaw could play there I suppose

Robshaw looked ok there but I wouldn't fancy him starting for England at 8. Dowson or Morgan I guess with the other on the bench.

has to be 8 Morgan 6 Croft 7 Robshaw(now wood is injured)

Cant have dowson or Robshaw 8. 8 is a specialised position that you need to be playing week in and week out.

Also the 8,9 relationship needs to be developed so you cant chop and change.

Think if we want to play an open style then we need an out and out 7 rather than a 6.5 which is what Robshaw is. Wood is a 6.5 but more of a 7 than robshaw if you get my drift.

for me robshaw is a better carrier than wood and is better in the tight areas.
think i would start him over wood regardless.
if you start croft, i would like to see the two second rows picked for power and carrying.

Neither Wood or Robshaw are 7's but could compliment each other I think. Robshaw is a good carrier in the tight and makes the hard yards. Wood offers more at the lineout and maybe a little more at the breakdown. I think both are good link players too, Robshaw has excelled here this season.

I don't think Wood, Croft or Robshaw are up too much when it comes to ball carrying at an international level .Croft and Wood are very useful when it comes to carrying in a broken field and I would consider them as better carriers then Robshaw. But if we are looking for a carrying flankers then we should look a long way away from those 3.

driver will be happy...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/9009577/Gary-Gold-and-Mike-Ford-named-new-Newcastle-Falcons-coaches-as-Alan-Tait-takes-break-from-rugby.html

Robshaw is a strong runner in the tight, not lightning pace but stong in the contact. I cetainly wouldn't say Wood was a stronger carrier than Robshaw

neither of them are great carriers which is why so much onus falls on morgan who will be in his first international which kind of shows how average we are.

As croft is such a different kind of 6 it really affects who you play at 7.

dont think Robshaw is anywhere near good enough at getting over the ball at 7 for international. the reason for this is as pooly mentioned not quick enough.

Think Robshaw has much more chance of being an international 6 than 7

We do certainly lack dynamic ball carriers - havent seen enough of Morgan to see whether he can change that, certainly looks big and fast enough! Still a bit surprised they didnt select Easter.

Really hope we get Lawes back, have a feeling we might need his defensive prowess in the first few games.

Robshaw is much better at 6, all of his attributes point to 6. The problem is we have nobody good enough to play 7.

I don't think you need to be fast to be a good 7, more a good engine and ability to read the game. McCaw, Brussow, Pocock are not really fast but just seem to know how to make the right call.

I really think a Robshaw/Wood partnership would work and I see a complete game between the two of them much like a French backrow of Dusa/Hari or Bonnaire.

i think you would find Pocock Brussow and Mccaw are very quick. Agreed mcCaw has slowed down a lot but now relies on experience.

Watch when pocock, brussow or mccaw are in open field they have significant gas