Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC a new region, would you support it?

First topic message reminder :

There seams to be a few calls for the regions to be looked at but no plans of how to change it. The main point seams to be that some people want to see a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region brought back. My question is to Welsh fans, mostly those not in the Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC area, would you like to see a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region brought back?

It seams that Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC have both been doing well in developing players and in the Welsh prem and lots of fans in these areas, don't feel that they belong to a region, it is a big market that the WRU are missing out on at regional level.

But if a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region were to be bought back it would mean the WRU funding to the other regions would be decreased to pay for it.

Also reseting up a Bridgend Ravens/Celtic Warriors/new name side would mean that a North Wales region would that even longer to happen (if is ever does).

The idea of it seams to carry pros and cons, I'm sure for fans from this area the pros outweight the cons, but what about fans of other regions?

AlynDavies wrote:I'm thinking of going to Cardiff RFC, Vs Swansea RFC tomorrow, I want to have another look at Tom Prydie and the Ospreys new signing Stefan Watermeyer.

I'm not sure how people can say the old Cardiff ground is better though, car parking is like £10-£15! Though it is closer to the train station.

Worth a look aint it. I enjoy going to the Arms Park when Ponty play there against Kairdiff

Jimmy Moz wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:I'm thinking of going to Cardiff RFC, Vs Swansea RFC tomorrow, I want to have another look at Tom Prydie and the Ospreys new signing Stefan Watermeyer.

I'm not sure how people can say the old Cardiff ground is better though, car parking is like £10-£15! Though it is closer to the train station.

Worth a look aint it. I enjoy going to the Arms Park when Ponty play there against Kairdiff

It was in October, you missed it

There's been a huge number of replies to this thread.

Just one question: What league would a fifth region play in?

red_stag wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

red_stag wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:They objected to the move from the Arms Park. From what I've heard, there are some who'll travel to away games but not to home games at the CCS.

I believe it based on HEC matches that I've been to there. Dreadful support.

red_stag;

"Dreadful support"?
I know personally many Cardiff supporters who have shelled out £1000's and £1000's following Cardiff throughout Europe over many, many years, but they refuse to set foot in CCS. Shocking isn't it? Or is it? What do you reckon? Have a bash warts and all.

Im sorry if that offends you but I am apalled at those type of fans. If Cardiff Blues fans won't go to see the Blues play over a stadium they don't derseve a team. By all means let Pontypridd take their place.

Didn't intend to give that impression and i'm not offended at all red_stag, but the reasons why the supporters I mentioned refuse to attend CCS have very little to do with the stadium itself or where it is located. However it has everything to do with why Cardiff Blues moved from the Arms Park in the first place and the financially crippling deal to play at CCS which is hurting the club as we speak.
It's a very delicate and politically taboo subject to say the least that is not discussed in the Welsh media.

Dave,

You may not be one of the Blues fans and apologies for tarring all with same brush BUT when Regions were formed and people like myself at time and my friends family who when we complained as to why we should go and watch our Region play in Newport with Newport in the name in Newport colours we were told by Blues fans and others to get a grip and go and support our Region.

Now there are Blues fans on here who won't even go the 15-20 walk to the CCS to follow their Region.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Dave,

You may not be one of the Blues fans and apologies for tarring all with same brush BUT when Regions were formed and people like myself at time and my friends family who when we complained as to why we should go and watch our Region play in Newport with Newport in the name in Newport colours we were told by Blues fans and others to get a grip and go and support our Region.

Now there are Blues fans on here who won't even go the 15-20 walk to the CCS to follow their Region.

No i'm not one of those who told others to get a grip and support the region. In any case, at Cardiff nothing seemed to change, but I was p!ssed off that Ponty weren't in the mix any more.
I've heard the 15-20min walk argument many times before, but never met a Cardiff Blues fan who grumbled about it. I suppose those moaning are people who occasionally attended matches at CAP that work in the city centre. That's my guess. In any case there is always the free shuttle bus service running from Westgate street opposite CAP.

Dave,

Said earleir on this thread its the old adage of pleasing some of the people some of the time etc etc.

People will always find something to moan about and in fact some are not happy unless they are moaning.

Jimmy Moz wrote:
Hence I said CLUB game

Yeah, I pointed that out. I was getting at how would it be different if Ponty went Regional? Because it wouldn't be sustainable.

Jimmy Moz wrote:
Ponty fans are turning up to watch their side every week. Hence they have the best attendance figures in the Welsh Premiership. They have moved on. Just because they want their own team in Valley's, it doesn't make people bitter. You clearly don't like Ponty or Valley's rugby so I guess I'm writing this on a hiding to nothing. Shame...

I have nothing against them. They do have their own team in the Valleys, 5000 turned up to watch them on boxing day remember. It is good that their club still has a decent fan base. It's just the fans keep acting bitter about being a feeder club but that is how the Rugby world now works. You don't have to support the Blues, but refrain from posting vitriol about them and the other 3.

Jimmy Moz wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:I'm thinking of going to Cardiff RFC, Vs Swansea RFC tomorrow, I want to have another look at Tom Prydie and the Ospreys new signing Stefan Watermeyer.

I'm not sure how people can say the old Cardiff ground is better though, car parking is like £10-£15! Though it is closer to the train station.

Worth a look aint it. I enjoy going to the Arms Park when Ponty play there against Kairdiff

I'm glad you enjoy going to the Arms Park Jimmy coz I do to especially when Ponty are the visitors, but what would it take for you to support the regional side Cardiff Blues? Would you join the party if the name Cardiff was dropped?

I doubt anyone would support the Blues if just the name Cardiff was dropped - if it did many things in a multi-pronged and sustained approach and really reached out to these supporters (and other supporters from areas like Bridgend, even though it's in Ospreylia - they had more fans than the Scarlets in Pembroke at one point) then it might work. In short acting like the region the Blues are - rather than a club that competes in the Welsh Prem

But no just dropping the word Cardiff won't have any effect on anyone

What is amusing though, this 'petition' has been started by the MP for Ponty...aren't there local elections next year? Oh, yeah there is. I wonder if this will be his voting ticket

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I doubt anyone would support the Blues if just the name Cardiff was dropped - if it did many things in a multi-pronged and sustained approach and really reached out to these supporters (and other supporters from areas like Bridgend, even though it's in Ospreylia - they had more fans than the Scarlets in Pembroke at one point) then it might work. In short acting like the region the Blues are - rather than a club that competes in the Welsh Prem

But no just dropping the word Cardiff won't have any effect on anyone

If dropping the name Cardiff isn't enough then what specifically should they do to help engage people throughout the "region", including Ponty fans? You suggest they should reach out, but they've tried that what with free season tickets for district players, a valleys bus service and free/discount tickets for community groups throughout the "region" plus other things. If you have any ideas send them an email. They'll be most appreciative.

I'm sorry but the Cardiff Blues aree just saying "here's a free bus come and support the Cardiff side as you've nothing better to do". I've hardly seen anything done to suggest that people from Ponty, Merthyr, Aberdare and Treherbert actually considered part of the region or that the region value them and want to be inclusive.

I'm talking about a huge shift in the way the Blues is marketed and sold to everyone - so instead of still trying to be Cardiff RFC but having to (grudgingly) change because their not actually Cardiff RFC anymore - therefore annoying the current fans who are stuck in tha past and still think the region should play at the same stadium Cardiff RFC do, play in the same kit, be called the same name and sing the same songs.

Instead the Blues should have embraced change, gotten rid of any geographical links, except for the stadium being based in Cardiff, created some good new chants with the supporters club, which if nothing else would have livened up the stadium - instead of the Blue and Blacks "Kardiff Kardiff", have a page on their website showing the clubs in it's region and their results, success ect and mentions/logo's round the stadium.
They could have the kids playing every half time during games from the regions teams, forcing the parents to come down and giving the kids a taste.

These (and other initatives) are small changes and will take awhile to improve anything (just look at the Scarlets who acted as an unofficial region anyway and it's only now attendances are rising), especially with the ill feeling (and stubborness?) of certain groups in the valleys - but these changes will help things slowly - particularly with the free buses, training camps and such. But it will have another effect as well, it will underline to the Cardiff based fans that the Blues is a different entity to Cardiff RFC and may help them embrace change rather than resent any changes they see to the 'Cardiff A-team'.

But at the moment the Cardiff Blues (and I've lived in Ponty and live in Cardiff) are just a Cardiff team, but because of poor attendance feel the need to try and grab some supporters from outside of Cardiff - instead of viewing the whole area from Merthyr to Barry as their area.

I have been a lifelong supporter of rugby in Wales and lived through the glory days of the 1970's, the mediocre 80's and the dismal 90's and now the resurgent 00's. I was brought up watching the great Aberavon team of the 60's and 70's and more recently watching Pontypridd.

We have a limited player base in Wales and that talent was being spread too thinly and the only way forward was for the number of teams to be reduced. It was a travesty what happened to The Celtic Warriors but it has gone and I think we need to put away tribalism and get behind the regions. The future of Welsh Rugby is being developed by the regions and you only have to look at the likes of George North, Toby Faletau, Dan Lydiate, Scott Williams, Ashley Beck, Rhys Priestland and many others who have all been developed by the regions. I agree that the regions and especially The Blues need to engage "The Valleys " more and cannot see why The Blues do not play games at Sardis Road as the Ospreys do at The Brewery Field with great effect.

I also think that the Regions and The Welsh Rugby Union need to be more pro active in mini and junior rugby in the Pontypridd area but they are not alone in their neglect. Pontypridd have a very successful mini and junior rugby section but the support they have received from Pontypridd RFC is minimal if non-existent, although this does seem to be improving slightly year on year.

If you look at the results of the Welsh Team since 1990 against the other Home Nations then prior to regionalism our win success rate was 27% and since regionalism that has risen to 53%. Now you may say that rugby is not all about the national team but about community rugby, but whilst this may be so, without a successful national team nothing works. The whole nation was lifted by the results in 05 and 08. Do we really want to go back to the days when England and France regularly beat us by 40 to 50 points.

I hope I have added to the debate.

well said PyleBoy

Yeah well said Pyleboy, on your bit about rugby being the community well that all changed at the top level when it went proffessional.

At grass rootssem-pro and below it still is about the community and the rugby club is still the focal point of many towns and villages.

I think everyone agrees regionalism is good for the national team. The trouble is the regions themselves haven't exactly thrived. Some say the public will come around. Some say it should be reformed.

The way I see it is the Scarlets attendance numbers are up. They're producing exciting players and are playing an attractive style. They seem to be successfully fusing the old club legacy with the new regional identity. Ospreys have disgruntled fans and dropping attendances. But it's more to do with poor coaching and under-performance than the actual makeup of the region itself causing annoyance. They could turn things around with a new coach and new young players giving fans something to shout about. Dragons are under-resourced but there doesn't seem to be much ill-feeling towards the region. It's tricky for Blues. They seem to have the biggest problem with unhappy fans in their region. They could re-brand themselves as a Cardiff/Ponty team with a new name. But who's to say that would work? It might lose them more fans than it gains.

I don't think a fifth region is a viable idea given the limited funds around, and the fact that the existing four need to be improved. I think Blues and Ospreys should move into smaller rugby stadiums. All four regions just have to keep up the effort to entice young fans and keep them. I think Welsh rugby really needs a couple of Heineken Cup wins more than anyone. It's done wonders for the fortunes of Munster and Leinster, who've proved success on the biggest stage can win over large numbers of new fans.

We all know the Irish were lucky to have four ready made provinces land on their lap and the Welsh have the difficult task of inventing regions from scratch. But on top of that, it's pretty clear that the regions, in how the organizations are run, and how the teams are coached, are not up to the standards of Ireland yet. That's where Welsh efforts should be focused. Wales always has and always will produce brilliant individual rugby players. They have to work towards getting everything else right and success will come.

Just to let you all know the campaign to Reform Regional Rugby is going great and a meeting has been held involving Owen Smith and the Economic consultants involved who are backing the plan. Other people in attendance included members of the WRU. This will be on an upcoming episode of ‘Week in week out’ on BBC One Wales

Jimmy

Feckless Rogue wrote:

I think Blues and Ospreys should move into smaller rugby stadiums.

I agree and move the bigger games to larger venues as required.

Jimmy Moz wrote:Just to let you all know the campaign to Reform Regional Rugby is going great and a meeting has been held involving Owen Smith and the Economic consultants involved who are backing the plan. Other people in attendance included members of the WRU. This will be on an upcoming episode of ‘Week in week out’ on BBC One Wales

Jimmy

Looking forward to it. Any idea when it will be televised?

Pyleboy65 wrote:I agree that the regions and especially The Blues need to engage "The Valleys " more and cannot see why The Blues do not play games at Sardis Road as the Ospreys do at The Brewery Field with great effect.

I believe the company that owns the O's also owns Brewery Field, so it's no real issue for them if they want to host games there. You could put your question in an email to Cardiff Blues regarding games at Sardis if you like, but I can guess what their answer would be.
Did you here the one about the board considering moving an LV game to the Arms Park? The story I read is that everybody voted in favour bar one person, so it didn't happen. Good eh?

I am not sure on that one as of yet Dave as the meeting was only held 2 weeks ago and ‘Week in week out’ will obviously be putting a documentary together for the episode along with the meeting and clips from Owen Smith and the rest of the campaign. I will let you know though as soon as I receive any more information. It's amazing to think how this was only in its infancy stage 2 months ago and already it has taken off far quicker than Mr Smith, the Economists involved and the rugby fans of the Valleys who have been starved of top flight rugby for nearly a decade imagined.

it's a pr stunt so he can get re-elected. this will die down by 2013 and hes been voted back in.

Jimmy Moz - could you give us some details about where the region is likely to be based, if it has the support of the clubs in the region area, which clubs these are, how many potential funders/backers have put their hands up to invest in this region, and how keen are the WRU to support this region.

Or has none of this been decided coz there hasn't been a meeting yet?

As without support from all those parties (granted you don't need most of the clubs in the region, just most of them), then this just sounds like a PR stunt as gcBlues says or a pipe dream

I’ll be totally honest and admit I do not have the answer to your questions as I am only ‘in the know’ to a certain extent but in regards to where the region will be based, Mr Smith has already conducted one interview from Sardis Road. Whether or not this is an indication of where he wishes it to be could be another thing all together as it is only natural that a Pontypridd MP taking about rugby would conduct an interview there.

The Economic consultant who chaired the meeting is also from Pontypridd although the consultancy given the contract of conducting the research and presentation on their findings are a company with people from all over Wales. They are not just doing this for a ‘bit of fun’ and a lot of time and money has gone into this project hence regardless of the outcome, calling it ‘a pipe dream’ is rather facetious and disrespectful to the professionals who have been involved in this from the start. Remember, this is an economic project as well as a rugby one.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Jimmy Moz - could you give us some details about where the region is likely to be based, if it has the support of the clubs in the region area, which clubs these are, how many potential funders/backers have put their hands up to invest in this region, and how keen are the WRU to support this region.

Or has none of this been decided coz there hasn't been a meeting yet?

As without support from all those parties (granted you don't need most of the clubs in the region, just most of them), then this just sounds like a PR stunt as gcBlues says or a pipe dream

Apparently this new superclub will have no base, has no support of the clubs in any area, has no funders/backers and the WRU are not keen to support it.

Thus it would be significantly more financially robust than Llanelli Scarlets.

In all seriousness though, it would be a monumental waste of time and money. Either the WRU take over and create full regions (North, South, East & West) or leave it as it is. Anything else is just pointless tinkering around the edges.

The Week in Week out show is nonsense. They're just doing a reality/fly on the wall pastiche based around the 'disenfranchised' fans of the short-lived Celtic Warriors.

In the last two weeks they've had time to interview all of them.

Jimmy Moz wrote:I’ll be totally honest and admit I do not have the answer to your questions as I am only ‘in the know’ to a certain extent but in regards to where the region will be based, Mr Smith has already conducted one interview from Sardis Road. Whether or not this is an indication of where he wishes it to be could be another thing all together as it is only natural that a Pontypridd MP taking about rugby would conduct an interview there.

The Economic consultant who chaired the meeting is also from Pontypridd although the consultancy given the contract of conducting the research and presentation on their findings are a company with people from all over Wales. They are not just doing this for a ‘bit of fun’ and a lot of time and money has gone into this project hence regardless of the outcome, calling it ‘a pipe dream’ is rather facetious and disrespectful to the professionals who have been involved in this from the start. Remember, this is an economic project as well as a rugby one.

Thanks for the answer - I'm not calling it a pipe dream I was saying that without significant backing, vocal support throughout the valleys and in particular strong support from the WRU then the project would be a pipedream as unfortunately without all those 3 things (and a few more) no matter the passion, hardwork, goodwill or dedication in the world will create a viable region.
I also recognised that it's not a bit of fun and money may well have been spent but unless that money's going to be in the millions rather than a few thousand and it's going to be put foward annually as stated above then it will have little effect.

Still I really hope there can be a well supported Valleys region, but I'm not optimistic and feel a North Wales region is much more viable.

Thanks for the updates Jimmy

There are many reasons why a region in the Valleys would work and probably many why it wouldnt but at least some professionals have been brought into decide this rather than certain people saying it wouldnt work on the solid basis of "It didnt work 10 years ago so why should it now" or "Pontypridd RFC lost to Leinster 'A' so this makes it even more unrealistic"

Steffan wrote:Thanks for the updates Jimmy

There are many reasons why a region in the Valleys would work and probably many why it wouldnt but at least some professionals have been brought into decide this rather than certain people saying it wouldnt work on the solid basis of "It didnt work 10 years ago so why should it now" or "Pontypridd RFC lost to Leinster 'A' so this makes it even more unrealistic"

I have to agree with this.

There would already be parts set up for a valleys team, ie Blues north acamady becomes the valleys acamady etc. However I don't know what big clubs would come on board, I believe that Bridgend is happy now as part of Ospreys region, and Neath although with difficulties with Ospreys have invested to much to leave and those problems are behind them.

Personnally if a new region were to be set up, I would think that it should be a North Wales/Valleys region, with games split between them.

Some say the Valleys can't support a team and North Wales don't have enough feeder clubs to support a region, but most will agree both areas need represention. Wales having 6 teams is to many for the WRU to help fund.

A Northwales Valleys team would serve both, Valleys take over the Blues North Acamady, and North Wales use RGC1404's to both feed the team. Would need a new idenity (i.e not Ponty or RCG1404 or a mix, but completly new).

Drawbacks would be, could the split of the games between North and Valleys be done 50:50, or would north Wales end up getting the smaller games? Would either set of fans, its set up to serve, feel a part of the new region? and turn up in numbers? Would Ponty fans support it, or since it's not Ponty, or solely a Valleys team reject it.

Another bonus would be that it would be one team based in two different councils and would get more benifits, but have two stadiums to up keep, potentially the largest number of supporters of all the regions, but they are spead over a large area?

Thoughts?

Another thing Kinshu - though a really good idea, would any Benefactors (say from the Valleys) want to invest heavily in an enterprise which isn't totally valleys based and vice versa with investors from North Wales.

It would be interesting to see if the region was accepted in either area - as we all saw the problems with a Ponty/Bridgend region

Smirnoff Priest, I was thinking about that, in reality I believe the WRU would say to them that the WRU will support a Valleys/North Wales combined team, or nothing at all.

If the benefactors drop out the WRU can say we tried what was best for everyone, Valleys and North Wales, it's not currently viaable, and we will perservere with the 4 regions we have. (which I belive is all they want).

If the benefactors in North Wales/Valleys decide to combine efforts, as it's the only option they have, it could create a very strong team, abliet one with plenty of possiblities of tearing itself apart, if the set-up was not agreed and cemented in place at the very beginging.

Kingshu wrote:Smirnoff Priest, I was thinking about that, in reality I believe the WRU would say to them that the WRU will support a Valleys/North Wales combined team, or nothing at all.

If the benefactors drop out the WRU can say we tried what was best for everyone, Valleys and North Wales, it's not currently viaable, and we will perservere with the 4 regions we have. (which I belive is all they want).

If the benefactors in North Wales/Valleys decide to combine efforts, as it's the only option they have, it could create a very strong team, abliet one with plenty of possiblities of tearing itself apart, if the set-up was not agreed and cemented in place at the very beginging.

Kind of like what happened with the Warriors

But yeah if it works it would be great, but as you say there's plenty of problems and potential pit-falls in the proposal.

But how is it good for Welsh rugby to dilute resources even more? People are talking about having 5 or even 6 teams? There's barely enough quality players to fill 4 squads. And that's even though the Welsh regions have more foreign players than the Irish.

Increasing the number of regions is unrealistic and actually defeats the purpose of regional rugby. To concentrate the limited talent in a small population like Wales.

I didn't think the Welsh regions had more foreign players then the Irish?? I know Scarlets and Dragons don't, anyway.

Feckless Rogue wrote:But how is it good for Welsh rugby to dilute resources even more? People are talking about having 5 or even 6 teams? There's barely enough quality players to fill 4 squads. And that's even though the Welsh regions have more foreign players than the Irish.

Increasing the number of regions is unrealistic and actually defeats the purpose of regional rugby. To concentrate the limited talent in a small population like Wales.

Have to agree with Feckless there. I don't feel we'll improve welsh rugby by adding another region. We'll only weaken it. Look at the situation now: we have 3 teams that are semi-competitive (competieve in the pro-12 and put up a good fight in the HC group stages, but not challenging the best teams in europe) and one team that are not. If we add another region, and presumably keep the same foreign player quota, then talent will be spead even more thinly. There's not enough talent to go round all 4 regions to make the Dragons competitive and not enough funding for the Dragons to attract back ex pats. The 5th region will mean that WRU funding will be split by 5 instead of 4. Who will play for the new region? It will end up being players not good enough for the exisitng 4 regions, plus foreigners. Unless there's an argument that there are loads of semi-pros who are good enough for pro rugby but who either don't want to play for the current regions (I doubt it) or who are not getting picked up by the current regions (possible).

I think there's enough players around for a fifth region but unfortunately not the money to make it realistic. There's Emyr Phillips and Myhill warming the bench at the Scarlets while we let go another promising hooker - Lawrence because he wouldn't have got game time - then there's Bennet at the O's an international hooker that can't get into the region coz of another int hooker.

There's flyhalfs coming out of our ying yang in Jones, Priestland, J Williams, Biggar, Morgan, Tovey, S Jones, Hook, Flanegan and Robinson.

There's a load of Welsh props playing outside of Wales that could be playing in Wales for a 5th region - as well as some promising youngsters getting gametime.

And the foreigner claim is rubbish - the Scarlets have Lamont (whose leaving), Morgan (who was WQ), Manu, Timani, Ionghi (whose cover for Welsh ints Stoddart, North, Liam Williams) and that's about it.
The Dragons have Chavy, Tuilagi & Bedford as Castle and Willis have retired and players like Hall are project players, so it's hardly a lot is it? (I may have missed 1 or 2 as it's off the top of my head, but 3 - max 5 isn't a lot).

While Ulster have Afoa, Wannenburg, Terblanche, Piennar, Muller, Kyriacou & Danielli which is more than either the Scarlets or the Dragons.

Ospreys have Bowe, Walker, the SH (can't spell his name), Stowers & O'Toole which is 5 though I may have forgotten someone

Who will have the final say regarding changes to the current 4 team set up (if the idea gets that far)?
The WRU or its member clubs?

I'm no expert but I would have thought the WRU as they would be (part) funding it and administrating the changes, but I imagine they'd have to get an agreement from the PRL (or whatever the umbrella organisation managed by Stuart Gallagher that looks after the regions is called).

Personally I can't see it happening as there's too many barriers but it would be good if a sustainable and competitive region could be created

Jimmy Moz wrote:Just to let you all know the campaign to Reform Regional Rugby is going great and a meeting has been held involving Owen Smith and the Economic consultants involved who are backing the plan. Other people in attendance included members of the WRU. This will be on an upcoming episode of ‘Week in week out’ on BBC One Wales

Jimmy

Good luck with it, I hope it works out.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:
While Ulster have Afoa, Wannenburg, Terblanche, Piennar, Muller, Kyriacou & Danielli which is more than either the Scarlets or the Dragons.

Ospreys have Bowe, Walker, the SH (can't spell his name), Stowers & O'Toole which is 5 though I may have forgotten someone

Just a correction Smirnoffpriest the 3 big provinces have 5+1 (5 NIQ and 1 project that will be).

you missed Payne for Ulster, but we were allowed to sign another NIQ player on a short term contract to replace him (Terblanche), same way as Leinster are getting Brad thorn, short term.

Kyriacou has an Irish mother, so not NIQ.

Next year it will be 4+1 NIQ and short term injury replacements will have to be IQ.

so each Province has 6 NIE players + maybe one if there is need for a short term injury replacement. I don't think the Provinces have to many


Cardiff blues have about 8, ospreys about 8 (Jarvis, Chauncey O'Toole, George Stowers, Kahn Fotuali'i, Bowe, Watermyer, walker, Dirksen)

Though I don't know the regions as well and stand to be corrected, but generally the Provinces have fewer forgien players than the regions do, even with counting short term injury cover replacements, and next year this will drop even more.

Personally I think the regions should try and have fewer but better NWQ players. It's not like O'Toole, or Dirksen add anything that a young welsh player couldn't)

Jarvis and Dirksen will be welsh qualified, which leaves six. Bowe and O'Toole are apparently leaving at the end of the season and academy/premiership guys are to be promoted. Blues are due a good clearout, hopefully.

Leinster Van der Merwe, Nacewa, Berquest, massive pacific island back 5 player, pretty sure there's one or two more?

Munster - Howlett, Botha, Mafi(all starters) off the top of my head. Help me out?

Morgannwg wrote:Jarvis and Dirksen will be welsh qualified, which leaves six. Bowe and O'Toole are apparently leaving at the end of the season and academy/premiership guys are to be promoted. Blues are due a good clearout, hopefully.

Leinster Van der Merwe, Nacewa, Berquest, massive pacific island back 5 player, pretty sure there's one or two more?

Munster - Howlett, Botha, Mafi(all starters) off the top of my head. Help me out?

Certainly old chum.

Leinster: VDM, Nacewa, Berquist, White. Sykes was the 5th, but he is gone, perhaps Brad Thorn to replace him temp.

Leo Auva'a (massive pacific island back 5 player) he has been playing for Belvedere (Dublin Club) for the last 3 years and is IQ, so doesn't count

Strauss is the Project player and he qualifies for Ireland in October. So we will have room for a new project player next season when we go down to 4 + 1

Munster: Howlett, Mafi, DuPreeeyah, Botha, Chambers and Borlaze is the project player.

So they're about the same as the Welsh Regions then. Really hoping that Leo Auva'a doesn't ever run out in Green, although if he his a back row I don't think he is required by Ireland yet.

Cheers Kingshu.

Hopefully the Blues will finally get their NWQ number down when they get rid of players like Fiilse, Rush, Molitika & Parks at the end of the season and maybe Tito as well - isn't Paterson a project player as well?

So that should bring all the regions down to the 4/5 level - Personally I'm quite happy with the Scarlets use of foreigners over the last 2/3 seasons (since we had our clearout) as players like King and Lyons were critical to giving us an edge and improving our youngsters skills, Lamont was a good signing on the wing and is leaving at the end of the season, and Manu was needed as he did a good job in the scrum (particularly last season and this) while Ionghi while not great yet has been bought as he's young and should improve highly, won't cost much and more importantly will be available to cover during Wales ints as we could provide the Wales back 3 (I say could) with Stoddart, L Williams and North. And Timani is much needed grunt in the 2nd row (I might add I'm not sure where we'd get a Welsh TH and a powerful lock as cheap as Manu and Timani)

Owen Smith and some other Ponty fans were on the news last night (BBC or ITV, not sure which) offering their views on the "regional problem". Anyone else see it?

"The team could play at Sardis Road, and may be named "The Valleys Commandos"."
Oh dear.

http://www.itv.com/wales/should-we-have-a-fifth-rugby-region20301/

Cardiff Dave wrote:"The team could play at Sardis Road, and may be named "The Valleys Commandos"."
Oh dear.

http://www.itv.com/wales/should-we-have-a-fifth-rugby-region20301/

Will they be playing "commando" then?

Morgannwg wrote:So they're about the same as the Welsh Regions then. Really hoping that Leo Auva'a doesn't ever run out in Green, although if he his a back row I don't think he is required by Ireland yet.

Leo's from Wellington I think. Lovely guy off the pitch. He is a pure 8. Never seen him play 6 or 7. 6'4" an a half and 20 stone. Now that he's properly fit he's a real handful. Young enough too. 27 or so.

Whether we will ever see him in green? Dunno. Not on the cards at the moment anyway.

No player has yet represented Ireland on the residency rule. Strauss MAY change that in November.

Has anyone ever looked at the Celtic Warriors squad just before it was dispanded?

They probably had the best players out of all the regions.

Should NEVER have been dispanded.

The new stadiums should NEVER have been built.

Can you think of more hostile fan fuelled environments to visit than the Gnoll, Sardis Road, the Arms Park and Stradey?

Each stadium should have been upgraded to a capacity of 15,000

I know that Stradey Park couldn't be upgraded because of the drainage problems around it. I also believe (not positive) that the reason the teams moved to newer stadiums was to increase the amount of commercial money they made out of the stadiums - which is a lot more than from the old stadiums. The problem being of course that the stadiums look far more empty than the intimidating old stadiums.

I think the Celtic Warriors should never have been disbanded, but the WRU didn't have the money for 5 regions (and still don't) and with the problems between the Ponty and Bridgend fans and Leighton it was just the case that the Warriors were the first to the chopping block. Not right but it happened.