Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC a new region, would you support it?

First topic message reminder :

There seams to be a few calls for the regions to be looked at but no plans of how to change it. The main point seams to be that some people want to see a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region brought back. My question is to Welsh fans, mostly those not in the Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC area, would you like to see a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region brought back?

It seams that Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC have both been doing well in developing players and in the Welsh prem and lots of fans in these areas, don't feel that they belong to a region, it is a big market that the WRU are missing out on at regional level.

But if a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region were to be bought back it would mean the WRU funding to the other regions would be decreased to pay for it.

Also reseting up a Bridgend Ravens/Celtic Warriors/new name side would mean that a North Wales region would that even longer to happen (if is ever does).

The idea of it seams to carry pros and cons, I'm sure for fans from this area the pros outweight the cons, but what about fans of other regions?

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I know that Stradey Park couldn't be upgraded because of the drainage problems around it. I also believe (not positive) that the reason the teams moved to newer stadiums was to increase the amount of commercial money they made out of the stadiums - which is a lot more than from the old stadiums.

If that was the plan for Cardiff Blues at CCS then it hasn't worked out for them.

Well their stadium is a lot bigger - and I doubt they expected the amount of apathy it generated by moving a mile or 2 down the road. But I'd be very suprised if they didn't make a hell of a lot more off the commercial boxes at CCS than the CAP - problem is that this is taken up by the higher rent and less/same amount of fans as at the CAP - whereas they needed a decent increase in crowds.

By the way Dave - do you think if the Blues got a new coach, some exciting players (to go along with thier current exciting players) and started playing freeflowing winning rugby, would the fans flock to the CCS In you Opinion?

Or do you think no matter what the place will be shunned

Hasn't the Blues average attendances increased since moving to CCS?
Even when they were playing well hardly anyone was watching them at CAP anyway.

I thought that gowales - at least until this season - but I haven't looked into it so would appreciate someone who knows to let me know

gowales wrote:Hasn't the Blues average attendances increased since moving to CCS?
Even when they were playing well hardly anyone was watching them at CAP anyway.

Good post gowales.
The official attendances at CCS were up on CAP initially, so how come Cardiff Blues are financially much worse off now? Free tickets ring a bell?
Also, if as you say "hardly anyone was watching them at CAP", why did they move to a 27k stadium when they struggled to come close to filling a 12.5k ground? Average at CAP was around 6k to 8k I think
In other words why would a corner shop type business move into a typical M&S sized retail space knowing full well the demand for their product didn't justify it?
Odd isn't it? Delve deeper and you'll find it isn't that odd.
No not that Delve.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Well their stadium is a lot bigger - and I doubt they expected the amount of apathy it generated by moving a mile or 2 down the road. But I'd be very suprised if they didn't make a hell of a lot more off the commercial boxes at CCS than the CAP - problem is that this is taken up by the higher rent and less/same amount of fans as at the CAP - whereas they needed a decent increase in crowds.

By the way Dave - do you think if the Blues got a new coach, some exciting players (to go along with thier current exciting players) and started playing freeflowing winning rugby, would the fans flock to the CCS In you Opinion?

Or do you think no matter what the place will be shunned

Smirnhoff, you have a lot to say and you say a lot and I have no problem with that, but from what you post you give the impression that you know little about the goings on at Cardiff Blues and what's been going on for many, many years. That's not a criticism by the way, it's only an observation and you are not alone in that respect especially on this message board.
The Director of rugby, the Financial Director and the Chief Executive all left Cardiff Blues last year within a matter of months of each other. Mmm? Now why would that be? Ill let you ponder that.

Back to the other things you mention; hospitality boxes were all sold out at CAP. Can't comment on the CCS arrangement and there are no boxes although they did have to slash the prices of the equivalent premier club thing at CCS due to lack of interest. The empty posh seats are there for all to see on the telly, S4C, BBC, take your pick.

Higher rent yes, and costs at CCS have increased this year.

"playing freeflowing winning rugby, would the fans flock to the CCS?" - No; see Leicester, Northampton, Gloucester, Toulouse, Munster, Leinster, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc..........
People choose to be part of these CLUBS because of what they are and not because they win or lose or play free flowing rugby or because somebody tells them to as they live within an as yet undefined area in Wales ie a region or whether a new chief exec tells people the product is fantastic/excellent/accessible/brilliant.

gnollbeast wrote:Has anyone ever looked at the Celtic Warriors squad just before it was dispanded?

They probably had the best players out of all the regions.

Should NEVER have been dispanded.

The new stadiums should NEVER have been built.

Can you think of more hostile fan fuelled environments to visit than the Gnoll, Sardis Road, the Arms Park and Stradey?

Each stadium should have been upgraded to a capacity of 15,000

Eh?

I'm English but I'd love to see those two clubs reincarnated, the stuff of legends back in my day, there were some fearsome players in the Rhondda then and I've no doubt there's still a few around today.

The "Ginger Monster", "Nugget", the "Real Michael Owen" were all Ponty boys, so there must be plenty of potential to tap into.

Funding (or more accurately, lack of it) tends to feck everything up nowadays though.

Nice idea.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

gnollbeast wrote:Has anyone ever looked at the Celtic Warriors squad just before it was dispanded?

They probably had the best players out of all the regions.

Should NEVER have been dispanded.

The new stadiums should NEVER have been built.

Can you think of more hostile fan fuelled environments to visit than the Gnoll, Sardis Road, the Arms Park and Stradey?

Each stadium should have been upgraded to a capacity of 15,000

Eh?

The new stadiums WERE NOT built for the Blues or the Ospreys they were built for the Football teams with their rugby counterparts only ground sharing.

On the other hand Parc Y Scarlets definitely should have been built. Its much better than that shack Stradey Park that was there before.

Cardiff dave - the reason i askd about if the playing style/winning was bcoz ppl want to b entertaind and want to win. At the scarlets were getting more fans coz they like the freeflowing rugby,and its true for lots of clubs. So do u think theres a decent proportion of fans out there who would go 2 blues games but think 'im not paying to watch that rubbish just to c parks kick the leather off the ball',or do u think all the fans are just angry and wont come back.

Talking of new stadiums. Plans have been published for a 15,000 seat stadium at Island Farm Bridgend. There is talk that Llandarcy Sports and a certain Mike Cuddy have an involvement in the development.

Could this be the new home for a Valleys rugby franchise called the Ospreys?

Seagultaf wrote:Talking of new stadiums. Plans have been published for a 15,000 seat stadium at Island Farm Bridgend. There is talk that Llandarcy Sports and a certain Mike Cuddy have an involvement in the development.

Could this be the new home for a Valleys rugby franchise called the Ospreys?

These talks and plans have been going on since Graham Henry was Wales coach!
the WRU origonally bought the Island farm land to be used as a center of excellence for Welsh rugby, however some councillor managed to block it all as he felt the sale of the land was far to cheap, then it all went to court and the plans never went ahead.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

gnollbeast wrote:Has anyone ever looked at the Celtic Warriors squad just before it was dispanded?

They probably had the best players out of all the regions.

Should NEVER have been dispanded.

The new stadiums should NEVER have been built.

Can you think of more hostile fan fuelled environments to visit than the Gnoll, Sardis Road, the Arms Park and Stradey?

Each stadium should have been upgraded to a capacity of 15,000

Eh?

The new stadiums WERE NOT built for the Blues or the Ospreys they were built for the Football teams with their rugby counterparts only ground sharing.

Quite right.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Cardiff dave - the reason i askd about if the playing style/winning was bcoz ppl want to b entertaind and want to win. At the scarlets were getting more fans coz they like the freeflowing rugby,and its true for lots of clubs. So do u think theres a decent proportion of fans out there who would go 2 blues games but think 'im not paying to watch that rubbish just to c parks kick the leather off the ball',or do u think all the fans are just angry and wont come back.

No.

No to which?

Alyn and Cardiff Dave, CCS was built for Cardiff City and they brought the Blues in on a lease, as you said, the Liberty when initially thought of was for equal rights for Swansea FC AND Swansea RFC, but by the time it was built it was for EQUAL RIGHTS between Swansea FC And the Ospreys. Even though Swansea FC have much larger gates than us (Ospreys) we take a share in their receipts. There is also a Premier Club that you buy ST and Hospitality Boxes for which is shared, the Ospreys do better out of the deal

Alyn, also the WRU NEVER EVER bought the Island Farm site, your right it was initially to be part of the WRU training base, but it did become a political football, and the initial subscribers to the development were the Bridgend CBC who were run by the Labour Party. There was local elections and Labour were thrown out, the development was dropped, but in the last elections Labour was voted back in and the development was put back on the table, I've looked into this extensively and I've seen plans for the new Stadiums and spoken to the developers and this will happen.

wayne wrote:Alyn and Cardiff Dave, CCS was built for Cardiff City and they brought the Blues in on a lease, as you said, the Liberty when initially thought of was for equal rights for Swansea FC AND Swansea RFC, but by the time it was built it was for EQUAL RIGHTS between Swansea FC And the Ospreys. Even though Swansea FC have much larger gates than us (Ospreys) we take a share in their receipts. There is also a Premier Club that you buy ST and Hospitality Boxes for which is shared, the Ospreys do better out of the deal

I know CCS was built primarily for Cardiff City, but it might not have been built if Cardiff Blues hadn't been "persuaded" to be tenants. Council land see. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, and all that.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:No to which?

Sorry bout that.
No to the first and yes to the second.

wayne wrote:Alyn, also the WRU NEVER EVER bought the Island Farm site, your right it was initially to be part of the WRU training base, but it did become a political football, and the initial subscribers to the development were the Bridgend CBC who were run by the Labour Party. There was local elections and Labour were thrown out, the development was dropped, but in the last elections Labour was voted back in and the development was put back on the table, I've looked into this extensively and I've seen plans for the new Stadiums and spoken to the developers and this will happen.

Happen when? Who do you think the tenants will be?

JayMaster3000 wrote:

wayne wrote:Alyn, also the WRU NEVER EVER bought the Island Farm site, your right it was initially to be part of the WRU training base, but it did become a political football, and the initial subscribers to the development were the Bridgend CBC who were run by the Labour Party. There was local elections and Labour were thrown out, the development was dropped, but in the last elections Labour was voted back in and the development was put back on the table, I've looked into this extensively and I've seen plans for the new Stadiums and spoken to the developers and this will happen.

Happen when? Who do you think the tenants will be?

My understanding that this had had the go ahead. They had the development plans for the complex up on boardings in town. Looks very impressive, but one of the reasons why the liberty and the CCS are so rubbish to go and watch rugby is that they are out of town. Island farm is the same, it's going to be at least a 20+ min walk from town, and the traffic on the A48 is woeful at peak times, it wont be able to cope for match idea (thats if the Ospreys do actually use it)

wayne wrote:Alyn, also the WRU NEVER EVER bought the Island Farm site, your right it was initially to be part of the WRU training base, but it did become a political football, and the initial subscribers to the development were the Bridgend CBC who were run by the Labour Party. There was local elections and Labour were thrown out, the development was dropped, but in the last elections Labour was voted back in and the development was put back on the table, I've looked into this extensively and I've seen plans for the new Stadiums and spoken to the developers and this will happen.

Clearly you know a lot more than me on this subject, my understanding was always that the council sold the land to the WRU and some investigation was launched and it was deemed the council sold the land wrongly, didn't go through proper chanels or didn't get value for money so the sale was stopped.

Thanks for the information though

BridgendBoyo wrote:My understanding that this had had the go ahead. They had the development plans for the complex up on boardings in town. Looks very impressive, but one of the reasons why the liberty and the CCS are so rubbish to go and watch rugby is that they are out of town. Island farm is the same, it's going to be at least a 20+ min walk from town, and the traffic on the A48 is woeful at peak times, it wont be able to cope for match idea (thats if the Ospreys do actually use it)

You hit the nail on the head there, the A48 is awful since they installed that bloody Broadlands roundabout between Laleston and the Ogmore (right) / Bridgend town (left) roundabout, the traffic is horrific. not to mention sticking those lights on the latter which has slowed everything up more again.

Before they do ANY development they need to increase that stretch of road to 4 lanes, so ease the terrible traffic. I live in Kenfig Hill, so common sense tell you I should follow the A48 road up from Stormy Down to Laleston, but any time I goto Bridgend I use the M4 get off at Sarn and take the Brakla by pass into town, to avoid it all.

Alyn, in the latest information I can glean from the Developers there are plans for extensive road improvements but more significantly a new train station very close to the Development it is on the Bridgend to the Vale of Glamorgan line, this information I got before Christmas.
I know you frequent the Ospreys website with the same username, but I do with a different username, I was involved in the same argument before Christmas on that site but I was hitting my head against a stone wall so I just gave up.
The Planning Committee of Bridgend CBC has passed the outline planning application and it has effectively gone through the Welsh Assembly Government by it not being Called in (they called in the PARC Y SCARLET Development) and it is now waiting on the full Bridgend CBC to pass the full plans, it is dragging on a bit, but I've been assured this will happen.

Wayne - I know this is waiting to go through the BCBC, as the WAG have already approved it. Do you know what interests that the Ospreys have in it? If any? Do you think that the Ospreys could potentially move to the site?

BridgendBoyo wrote:Wayne - I know this is waiting to go through the BCBC, as the WAG have already approved it. Do you know what interests that the Ospreys have in it? If any? Do you think that the Ospreys could potentially move to the site?

If they did would they get any more support?

BridgendBoyo wrote:Wayne - I know this is waiting to go through the BCBC, as the WAG have already approved it. Do you know what interests that the Ospreys have in it? If any? Do you think that the Ospreys could potentially move to the site?

BB, when I was having the discussion before Christmas on the website, I found that there are 3 Stadiums planned the 5000 capacity one was for Bridgend FC, THE 10000 Seater is for Bridgend Ravens RFC and they were non commital on who the 15000 Seater stadium was for, this was when I was talking to the Architects involved, but with the controlling interest of Bridgend Ravens being Llandarcy Ltd who own the Ospreys, it doesn't take much working out who the 15000 seater Stadium is for. I think a big interest in what matches are brought to this development is how long Swansea FC stay in the Premiership and if they want to enlarge the Liberty Stadium and in what way will our gates (Ospreys) stand up.
Jay master at the moment I don't think so as quite a few on the Forum have the gall to say Bridgend had their chance with the CW but then go on to say they wouldn't travel from Swansea to Bridgend

I dunno? Possibly, it cant get any worse than it is now. The Brewery field got more supporters watching a 2nd string team playing a 2nd string Dragons team in the LV cup, than a HC game against Treviso.

The LV games that have been played down the Brewery field, where the O's have fielded and played against 2nd string teams and horrible, cold and wet weather the attendence was between 6000-7000.

I think people would watch the Ospreys in Bridgend, it would be one hell of a coup. Also, there is no football team like there is in cardiff or swansea

Alot of Ospreys supporters are fecked off with the coaching stuff, continual underachievement and boring rugby. that hasnt helped matters

Bit excessive having a 10k and then a 15k, surely they could share. Alot of fans would want to waych both

BridgendBoyo wrote:Bit excessive having a 10k and then a 15k, surely they could share. Alot of fans would want to waych both

That makes the most sense. But the powers to be seem to lack common sense. I think rugby grounds should be purpose built for rugby, as they have different requirements, and should be around 12-18k.

Also there is no reason why the Ospreys couldn't use the LS for derby matches and big H-cup matches if there was demand?