EPS & Saxons

Senior EPS Squad:

FORWARDS (18)
Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)
Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Matt Stevens (Saracens)
Rob Webber (London Wasps)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

BACKS (14)
Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Charlie Hodgson (Saracens)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Saxons Squad:

FORWARDS (18)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Chris Brooker (Harlequins)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
Matt Garvey (London Irish)
James Gaskell (Sale Sharks)
Jamie Gibson (London Irish)
Joe Gray (Harlequins)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
Luke Narraway (Gloucester Rugby)
David Paice (London Irish)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
George Robson (Harlequins)
Andrew Saull (Saracens)
Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)
Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)

BACKS (14)
Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby)
Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers)
Delon Armitage (London Irish)
Matt Banahan (Bath Rugby)
Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
Karl Dickson (Harlequins)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
Ryan Lamb (Northampton Saints)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
Henry Trinder (Gloucester Rugby)
Billy Twelvetrees (Leicester Tigers)
Micky Young (Leicester Tigers)

Yup, looks ike it, from here: LINK

I did not see Botha making it!

Generally...its ok...

However.....Botha? Really? Oh dear...

Only real issues are Marler cant scrummage...Wilson? Mears?

A good decision. Lots of new players who are playing well, despite a good nucleus of more expreienced players.

Some good selections in there. Definitely a new era for England.

Must admit surprised about Botha...????

Really looking forward to the Saxon's match on the 28th now. Got some cracking players in there! Anyone else coming down to SP?

Hodgson.....

Not happy with the locks in the senior squad.

Would happiliy swap Deacon and Botha with Attwood and Garvey.

suprised to see botha in over attwood.

also suprised that PDJ is in the saxons.

deacon and mears will require injury reoplacements

No Nick Easter...? Does that mean that Ben Morgan will be the England Number 8?

maesteg

certainly looks that way, dowson the only other option there really.

morgan and dowson will be opposing each other this weekend, interesting...

Well seem teh Daily Mail had a good source.

Do not understand the Callum Clarke decision as he is an out and out 6 - a position well covered by Croft, Wood, robshaw and Dowson.

Slightly depressed by Botha and Waldrom being included in the two squads.

Oh and for those who are not yet aware - Deacon is only in the squad as a technicality of the EPS arrangement. In the next week he will be replaced due to injury.

Garvey, Twelvetrees and Attwood
for Botha, Deacon and Hodgson.

Other than that it is pretty encouraging. With Jamie George to move into the Saxons in a year or two hopefully and Danny Care to come back into the EPS when is punishment is over.

Botha is a new one from the Daily Fail squad, makes sense as Deacons inured to replace him just not one of teh expected names.

Callum Clarkes a risky pick, but a Lancaster man.

Mears you have to ask what hes doing there but coul be replaced on the injury rule at any time.

Theres few burning names missing from teh squad, except perhaps Trinder ..his exclussion suggests that Tuilagi is expected to be fit.

I wouldve liked Twelvetrees over JTH, but thats a persoanl opinion.

Theres a lot of scope for players to prove a point in this tournament, and a lot of scope to change up some of those Saxons players come summer.
Whilst the majority of the squad matches the expected picks and the 606 picked team the side is far from settled.

Looking at the Saxons Tigers 3rd choice scrum half is in, interesting.
Its fgood to see some guys with experience and proven ability like Monye Armitage and to a lessere extent Banhan in the Saxons ready to step back up when it all goes horribly wrong for the creche. Its a worry that there isnt the equivelant players in the forwards though.

Id be suprissed if England have had a younger or less capped side starting a 6 nations than the one that will go out. If Flood misses the first game thats the second most capped player in the 32 out, and Mears is hugley unlikley to start.

Very risky selection. Lots of potential but this could end up a real mess.

I'm pretty happy with the squad. I wouldn't have picked exactly the same, but then the chance of my squad and his being identical were minimal. What is important now though is for us to develop a style of play that suits our players.

We have play making 10s, and some serious pace throughout the team. If we can maximise our fitness and play a fast paced game then we could really get somewhere.

I do worry slightly that we don't have any "gnarly" forwards, I always liked seeing Shaw in the line up because he could come on from the bench and make "Shaw" (ha ha ha ha!) that the scrum, lineouts and general forward play had some beef. To be honest though, I think that comes with experience!

Can't really argue with any of that, except that I'd have put Abendanon in.

I wouldn't have had Botha either.

Marler cannot scrummage so interesting choice...

Would have personally picked Trinder instead of JTH.

Why has the Saxons squad got 3 full backs? Abendanon is the 5th best FB why has he been picked?

The two squads are pretty good though.

Id have Attwood, Garvey and Robson before Botha, strange decision

Marler is an interesting choice, but he has age on his side. My only thought about him was that in the games I have watched him in, he spends a lot of effort off the ball, when maybe he would be more useful just getting on with the game.

Also just realissed Cleggs been left out of the 64 which csuprises me since he wass Lancasters FH in the summer (making him effectivly 4th choice), now Wilkos gone he might have expected to step up to the senior side but instead is out altogether.

Farrel looks dead set to be the starting 12 or bench 10/center cover for teh Scotland game. Not sure who'd play 13 if Manu isnt fit though, surely cant be thinking of starting Farrell there?

He's called up Trinder from the Saxons as injury cover so maybe 12 Farrell 13 Trinder? Or 12 Barritt 13 Trinder.

Looking at the Saxons Tigers 3rd choice scrum half is in, interesting.

Micky is often in the Saxons line ups - nothing unusual there.

beshocked wrote:
Why has the Saxons squad got 3 full backs? Abendanon is the 5th best FB why has he been picked?

4 if you count Monye.

I guess Armitage is treated as a wing and he may see Goode as a utility bench player which he seems to love instead of a speacilist 10.

this selection would suggest that palmer and botha are the likely startes in the 2nd row against scotland. lancaster suggested that parling would be called up to replaced the injured deacon.

no. 8 and fly half will also be intersting to see who is chosen to start against the scots.

Northampton Saints 8
Saracens 6
Leicester Tigers 6
Harlequins 4
London Wasps 2
Bath Rugby 2
Stade Francais 1
Scarlets 1
Gloucester Rugby 1
London Irish 1

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

beshocked wrote:
Why has the Saxons squad got 3 full backs? Abendanon is the 5th best FB why has he been picked?

4 if you count Monye.

I guess Armitage is treated as a wing and he may see Goode as a utility bench player which he seems to love instead of a speacilist 10.

Monye as a full back! Next you'll be saying Banahan is actually a centre and Mauro Bergamasco is a scrum half!

Goode is hardly utility when virtually all his recent games have been at FB.

I do see your point but still think it is odd.

Attwood is also in the Senior squad with Trinder for the first game as cover....i would start him over Botha....

Sarries fans has Botha earned this call up with performances...?

I'm a little disappointed with a fair few of those names. I assume that some of them remained because he ran out of changes that he was allowed to make, but they were unlikely to play a part anyway.

I think the Clark selection is a missed opportunity to get a true openside around the squad. Four of the backrow selected are natural blindsides, we didn't really need a fifth. You could argue that there isn't a standout 7 candidate, but Clark hasn't been playing as well as he was last season (he's actually been injured since mid November) and certainly not as well as a couple of the 7 options. On that note, I'm surprised not to see Wallace in the Saxons. Saull and Gibson are very good options, but not playing as well as Wallace at present.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Saxons play at the end of the month. I certainly expect a number of the front five players to lay down a marker and quickly get promoted to the EPS this year. I'm particularly keen to see a backline that includes Burns, Twelvetrees, Trinder, May & Joseph. Mouthwatering!

Not a bad selection. Not sure about the Clark selection, I can't see what he adds to the squad, I would rather have had a specialist 7 in the squad. In much the same vein I woul have liked to see Wallace in the Saxons squad.

Glad to see Trinder called up from the Saxons as i thought the senior squad was lacking a genuine 13 with Tuilagi injured. I don't understand webber being in the squad ahead of Grey who i hope is promoted to cover Mears' injury.

Out of interest who's coaching the saxons now?

Try picking the WORST team you can from the 1st squad. I got this:

1 - Wilson
2 - Mears
3 - Marler
4 - Botha
5 - Deacon
6 - Robshaw
7 - Clark
8 - Dowson
9 - Dickson
10 - Farrell
11 - Sharples
12 - Barritt
13 - Turner-Hall
14 - Strettle
15 - Brown

My point is - that teams not actually too bad, despite being my (subjective) WORST team.

Geordiefalcon Botha has been pretty average actually in my opinion. Certainly overshadowed by Borthwick. Did have a strong 2nd half performance vs Bath though. As I said I wouldn't pick Botha.

As a Sarries fan I am glad England haven't taken Borthwick.

Would have personally gone for Garvey. I think Attwood is a bit overrated too.

A captain doesn't exactly leap out at me from that bunch.

miteyironpaw wrote:A captain doesn't exactly leap out at me from that bunch.

Hartley
Wood
Robshaw
Croft
Cole
Flood
or if you asked him, Danny Cipriani

Interesting selections, but overall happy with the squads.

I think the selection of only one true 8 (Morgan) indicates that Robshaw is potentially seen as filling in at the position. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised to see: 6. Croft 7. Wood 8. Robshaw, although I hope the actual starting backrow is 6. Robshaw 7. Wood 8. Morgan!

Botha is a very interesting choice, would have much preferred Garvey.

oh, and the selection of Marler has been criticised also. I think that this is a great chance for Marler to improve his scrummaging game, especially while working with the king of modern scrummaging, Graham Rowntree.

Poor old Borthwick.

Re : Botha

Didnt Lancaster speak out against selecting players who qualified on short term residency and who would borderline on reaching the next world cup?
So he selects a guy who will be nealry 34 by the time of the 2015 cup and whos residency period only qualified last season.

I forgot though that he'd already been capped in the Wales friendly , making him one of Englands most experienced players.

Am so happy for Ben Morgan, he's been working so so hard the last couple of seasons, this is just brilliant for him. Really hope he plays well.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I forgot though that he'd already been capped in the Wales friendly , making him one of Englands most experienced players.

Wilson over Doran Jones.
I'm shocked, shocked and disgusted

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:A captain doesn't exactly leap out at me from that bunch.

Hartley
Wood
Robshaw
Croft
Cole
Flood
or if you asked him, Danny Cipriani

I'm not convinced, or you are having a larf. A mixture of poor temperaments and inexperience there. And Flood? Captain? Really?

That's nice to hear from a Welshman rugbydreamer. I know a lot of you were hoping he'd choose Wales, but it's good to know people haven't turned on him purely because of his choice. Bravo.

I personally would have had Parling instead of Botha but maybe a little Leicester bias there. Also, would have preferred 36 to JTH, just gives something different to both JTH and Barritt. Mears I wouldn't have anywhere near the squad, put Grey in instead and agree, would have been nice to see and out and out 7 in there but apart from that its a pretty good squad, hope Barritt gets his chance at 12.

miteyironpaw wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:A captain doesn't exactly leap out at me from that bunch.

Hartley
Wood
Robshaw
Croft
Cole
Flood
or if you asked him, Danny Cipriani

I'm not convinced, or you are having a larf. A mixture of poor temperaments and inexperience there. And Flood? Captain? Really?

Garunteed starter and most experienced player in the squad in terms of caps, by a long way in likely starting sides.. Fits the profile of a Lancaster man perfectly in terms of his age and professionalism. If youre rejecting the others on grounds of their discipline or experince he'd be the obvious choice.

But no Im not seriously saying he'd make a great capatin, just saying those are the options that stand out.
BTW is Croft inexperienced or of poor temperament?

Still its much better than the situation MJ was dumped with where the only relaistic contender was flipping Borthwick.

Oh is this the first saxons squad Henry Thomas has made?
Very talented young player. Give him a few seasons, hope Sale get their act together and I expect big things from him

So starting against Scotland "could" be....

1 Corbs
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Botha
5 Palmer
6 Wood / Croft / Robshaw
7 Robshaw / Wood
8 Morgan

9 Youngs
10 Hodgson
11 Sharples
12 Barritt
13 Trinder
14 Ashton
15 Foden

Would you be happy with that....i would with the exception of Botha.

Attwood instead of Botha and i'd be happy.

Maybe Botha was a typo, what it should say is Borthwick.