Ashton Can he do it again?

Top try scorer in the 2011 6 Nations, joint top try scorer in the RWC

Can he do it again?

If not Ashton who will get the most?

2011 top 10 try scorers

1 Chris Ashton England 6
2 Brian O'Driscoll Ireland 3
3 Lionel Nallet France 2
4 Shane Williams Wales 2
5 James Heaslip Ireland 2
6 Andrea Masi Italy 2
7 Morgan Stoddart Wales 2
8 Vincent Clerc France 2
9 Maxime Medard France 2
10 Sam Warburton Wales 1

I find Ashton has that effect on everyone!

clearly going to be Dan Parks, he's an absolute try machine...

BOD !

He got four in a shocking Italy performance and two against a poor Wales he played poorly against the other teams.

Top try scorer last year, top try scorer at the RWC. England clearly have the most lethal back division in world rugby. We also have historically tended to monster all comers in the technical and physical arena of the set piece.

The only missing link right now between England and restoring the rightful world order of 2003 is tweaking the balance of the back row and finding a replacement for the kicking accuracy of the greatest player of all time: Jonny Wilkinson (if such a man will ever exist).

Kieth Earles will be top try scorer this 6N

Top try scorer last year, top try scorer at the RWC. England clearly have the most lethal back division in world rugby. We also have historically tended to monster all comers in the technical and physical arena of the set piece.

Did you managed to keep a straight face whilst typing that ? Pure sociopath if you did

Who me Munkian?

HERSH wrote:Top try scorer in the 2011 6 Nations, joint top try scorer in the RWC

Can he do it again?

If not Ashton who will get the most?

2011 top 10 try scorers

1 Chris Ashton England 6
2 Brian O'Driscoll Ireland 3
3 Lionel Nallet France 2
4 Shane Williams Wales 2
5 James Heaslip Ireland 2
6 Andrea Masi Italy 2
7 Morgan Stoddart Wales 2
8 Vincent Clerc France 2
9 Maxime Medard France 2
10 Max Evans Scotland 1
10 Sean Lamont Scotland 1
10 Kelly Brown Scotland 1
10 Alastair Kellock Scotland 1
10 Sam Warburton Wales 1

That's better

eirebilly wrote:Who me Munkian?

Was referring to miteyironpaw but unless Earles is given the ball 2 meters from the try line then works for you too

munkian wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Who me Munkian?

Was referring to miteyironpaw but unless Earles is given the ball 2 meters from the try line then works for you too

Hey, no need to be cheeky

He'll rock up 6 in his first game.....

munkian wrote:

Top try scorer last year, top try scorer at the RWC. England clearly have the most lethal back division in world rugby. We also have historically tended to monster all comers in the technical and physical arena of the set piece.

Did you managed to keep a straight face whilst typing that ? Pure sociopath if you did

There's nothing sociopathic about the truth Mr Munkian. The interesting point for me will be whether our friends over the border in the splendid country of Wales will accept his greatness when he surpasses Shane Williams try scoring record in a few brief seasons. Must be on the cards!

If the dwarf is the right weight, has a good sturdy shirt on with a tough collar and trousers with a good belt...........................yeah, I'd say he could do it again. Why not?

In all seriousness, Ashton is a finisher.

England clearly have the most lethal back division in world rugby

Your tongue must have been in danger of piercing your cheek and shooting out of your head.

The only thing that Ashdown has over Shane is his chromosome count.

munkian wrote:

England clearly have the most lethal back division in world rugby

Your tongue must have been in danger of piercing your cheek and shooting out of your head.

The only thing that Ashdown has over Shane is his chromosome count.

Shane who? The retired one?

Didn't Shane score over half of his tries against Japan and Canada in specially-arranged tests by the WRU?

Australia have the most lethal back division in world rugby... if their forwards can get enough front foot ball. Next in line... is not England.

I expect Ashton to get 4 against Italy. Then remain scoreless against Ireland and Wales. England won't get a try in Scotland so it depends on which France turns up to play England.

Don´t think I´m being harsh though it may well appear a bitter pill to swallow.

Ashton is a lethal finisher but i don't think he'll be able to do the same this year. Mostly because his confidence is probably very low.
His form last year and the year before had a lot to do with the confidence he gained from playing an important part for Northampton and playing well in the internationals that he did.
That try he scored against Australia was amazing, not many players could have scored that. The balls he had to literally run around Drew Mitchell!

I think the top try scorer will be Julien Malzieu

Why would his confidence be low? He's the most prolific try scorer in world rugby at the moment, and the worlds most consistent. He'll be biting at the bit to get into the Scotts and start tearing up the record book in another international season.

miteyironpaw wrote:Why would his confidence be low? He's the most prolific try scorer in world rugby at the moment, and the worlds most consistent. He'll be biting at the bit to get into the Scotts and start tearing up the record book in another international season.

If he scores against the Scots then i will be suprised. Great finisher but i dont see try's at Murrayfield......

Well he get selected even ? The Saints drama could play a part in that.

Scot Abroad wrote:

HERSH wrote:Top try scorer in the 2011 6 Nations, joint top try scorer in the RWC

Can he do it again?

If not Ashton who will get the most?

2011 top 10 try scorers

1 Chris Ashton England 6
2 Brian O'Driscoll Ireland 3
3 Lionel Nallet France 2
4 Shane Williams Wales 2
5 James Heaslip Ireland 2
6 Andrea Masi Italy 2
7 Morgan Stoddart Wales 2
8 Vincent Clerc France 2
9 Maxime Medard France 2
10 Max Evans Scotland 1
10 Sean Lamont Scotland 1
10 Kelly Brown Scotland 1
10 Alastair Kellock Scotland 1
10 Sam Warburton Wales 1

That's better

2011 top 10 try scorers

1 Chris Ashton England 6
2 Brian O'Driscoll Ireland 3
3 Lionel Nallet France 2
4 Shane Williams Wales 2
5 James Heaslip Ireland 2
6 Andrea Masi Italy 2
7 Morgan Stoddart Wales 2
8 Vincent Clerc France 2
9 Maxime Medard France 2
10 Max Evans Scotland 1
10 Sean Lamont Scotland 1
10 Kelly Brown Scotland 1
10 Alastair Kellock Scotland 1
10 Sam Warburton Wales 1
10 Mike Phillips Wales Dodgy 1

That's even better.

miteyironpaw wrote:Why would his confidence be low? He's the most prolific try scorer in world rugby at the moment, and the worlds most consistent. He'll be biting at the bit to get into the Scotts and start tearing up the record book in another international season.

Because of the way hes been treated by the public, the media and the Saints.

Personally think he may well go on to break a few records but I would be surprised if he does much this year. So much depends on where his head is at and if England click or not - and we wont know that for another week.

gowales wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:Why would his confidence be low? He's the most prolific try scorer in world rugby at the moment, and the worlds most consistent. He'll be biting at the bit to get into the Scotts and start tearing up the record book in another international season.

Because of the way hes been treated by the public, the media and the Saints.

Undoubtedly he courted controversy with his swan dive and apparent arrogance. But in young sportsmen a bit of an ego is essential. All of the real greats have that extra edge that makes them targets for love/hate amongst supporters and opposition. Especially try scorers, and especially wingers. It's really just a way of dealing with nerves and pressure. He's got a few years experience behind him now, but is still young enough to be a maverick. He will be aware that if you come out with his kind of attitude and then don't perform you'll be in line to take a big of a ribbing. But don't worry about it at all, this kind of athlete revels in controversy and he'll be bursting with enthusiasm to get out there, prove his critics wrong and rub the detractors noses in it. Mark my words, he's going to have a big 6N.

A lot of these predictions of his impending failure are nothing more than wishful thinking by frightened opposition supporters who are unwilling to admit to his brilliance and talent. It's very hard for some to say "we're looking at the greatest winger ever to play the game, and he's English"

Ashton isn't even the best winger in England, let alone the whole of the six nations.

It's very hard to say we're looking at the greatest winger ever to play the game talking about Ashton and to keep a straight face.

Once he starts scoring tries consistently against the best sides in the world then we can talk of greatness. For the moment, apart from that gem against Australia, he has been conspicuous in his try-scoring absence against the big sides.

Jonah never scored against South Africa, didn't mean he wasn't turned into a legend by Kiwis. Ashton has a more complete game. Watch this space.

I think you´ll find most Kiwis don't rate Jonah as a winger. They rate him for the impact he brought to the game. Goldie (Jeff Wilson) was the complete player (kicking, catching, running, speed, defence) and I´ll take a Pepsi challenge with him over Ashton any day.

Ashton shows promise, don´t get me wrong, but to say he´s the greatest winger ever is ludicrous. Just thinking about Aussie greats such as Campese, Roff, Tune. It's easy to say a winger shows promise early in his career but let's see if he makes it to 50 tests. I'll be certainly watching that space.

He wont get to play England at Twickernam - So no

Ashton has been very unimpressive this season and tbh, if picking on form he shouldn't even be starting for England.

Top try scorer - Gethin Jenkins - Though, he might miss the Ireland and Scotland match, he will make up for it with hat-tricks in all the other games

Anybody who believes Ashton to be the greatest winger/finisher in the world let alone in the 6N needs to be sectioned. Arguably the most over rated winger in world rugby at the moment. 'HE SCORED 6 TRIES IN THE 6 NATIONS LAST SEASON!!!' Yeah, he did, but four tries in a huge win over Italy and two against a poor Wales means he's a pretty average player who only sticks his head up against weak opposition. Also, he's a bottler, just watch England vs Ireland 2011.

I agree he's overrated, would like to see Strettle and Sharples start together.

Looseheaded wrote:Anybody who believes Ashton to be the greatest winger/finisher in the world let alone in the 6N needs to be sectioned. Arguably the most over rated winger in world rugby at the moment. 'HE SCORED 6 TRIES IN THE 6 NATIONS LAST SEASON!!!' Yeah, he did, but four tries in a huge win over Italy and two against a poor Wales means he's a pretty average player who only sticks his head up against weak opposition. Also, he's a bottler, just watch England vs Ireland 2011.

So was every player who didnt score 4 trues against Italy poor?
The entire side had a brain fart against Ireland that day. But then BOD must be a bottler as 4 years ago Noon and Cipriani made his side look like ameteures. Or perhaps pplayers and teams have bad days, who knows.

I dont have a lot of respect for the guy after Tuilagi round two but some of the petty jealousy and ridiculous attempts to manipulate statistcics to prove hes russbish are plain embaressing.

The guy scores a lot of tries when hes given a platform to do it. However I would say he can be ineffective when he is asked to create the opportunity and his sides struggling. You dont see him being the one to make the break from nothing possession too often...even his wonder try was pretty much a case of catch and run in for him. But to say he isnt a finisher is silly, I cant see where his scores came from if he isnt.

Looseheaded wrote:Anybody who believes Ashton to be the greatest winger/finisher in the world let alone in the 6N needs to be sectioned. Arguably the most over rated winger in world rugby....

oh please. Can we stop the emotional dislike of this guy? I don't know who said he best iin the world. That's silly stuff. But, on form he tracks play and puts himself in the right position as well as anyone playing now. Not for nothing, that comes from lots of film sstudy as well as a lot of focused training. Not from luck. And from understanding he has a lot to learn.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Looseheaded wrote:Anybody who believes Ashton to be the greatest winger/finisher in the world let alone in the 6N needs to be sectioned. Arguably the most over rated winger in world rugby at the moment. 'HE SCORED 6 TRIES IN THE 6 NATIONS LAST SEASON!!!' Yeah, he did, but four tries in a huge win over Italy and two against a poor Wales means he's a pretty average player who only sticks his head up against weak opposition. Also, he's a bottler, just watch England vs Ireland 2011.

So was every player who didnt score 4 trues against Italy poor?
The entire side had a brain fart against Ireland that day. But then BOD must be a bottler as 4 years ago Noon and Cipriani made his side look like ameteures. Or perhaps pplayers and teams have bad days, who knows.

I dont have a lot of respect for the guy after Tuilagi round two but some of the petty jealousy and ridiculous attempts to manipulate statistcics to prove hes russbish are plain embaressing.

The guy scores a lot of tries when hes given a platform to do it. However I would say he can be ineffective when he is asked to create the opportunity and his sides struggling. You dont see him being the one to make the break from nothing possession too often...even his wonder try was pretty much a case of catch and run in for him. But to say he isnt a finisher is silly, I cant see where his scores came from if he isnt.

I didn't say he wasn't a finisher, I just said he wasn't the greatest finisher in the world or six nations.

Who said he was the greatest finisher in the world or 6 nations?
Hes definitely up there in the 6 nations though.

doctor_grey wrote:

Looseheaded wrote:Anybody who believes Ashton to be the greatest winger/finisher in the world let alone in the 6N needs to be sectioned. Arguably the most over rated winger in world rugby....

oh please. Can we stop the emotional dislike of this guy? I don't know who said he best iin the world. That's silly stuff. But, on form he tracks play and puts himself in the right position as well as anyone playing now. Not for nothing, that comes from lots of film sstudy as well as a lot of focused training. Not from luck. And from understanding he has a lot to learn.

How is tallying up the tries he scores and finding out he's the most prolific try scorer in the world "overrating" him? Surely that's just rating him fairly. I'm not saying he's the finished article. He can still get much better. And that's why he's so scary.

First you build him up to be the world´s best winger and now he´s not the finished article. Which is it to be miteyironpaw.

I think it´s a dangerous road to go down saying a player is the world´s best. How do you separate Juan Smith, Thierry Dusatoir and Jerome Kaino for example. I just think you should be grateful if any one of those is in your team.

I don't have a problem with people saying Ashton can be the leading try scorer again. He knows his way to the try line. But he still has a lot to learn and like you say that could well make him very formidable. Let´s not go overboard with the hype and just see what he does. At the moment, Ashton is in danger of having the same amount of hype as Croft did. I don´t think we've seen the best of Croft yet by any stretch and we haven't seen the best of Ashton. But when he's at his best, he looks very good. Just be content with that and leave him to build his own legacy.

HERSH wrote:

If not Ashton who will get the most?

TOMMY BOWE!!! He was injured at the start of last year's Six Nations, but this year he's as fit as a fiddle!

Lets hope so cari.

doctor_grey wrote:]oh please. Can we stop the emotional dislike of this guy?

To be fair HERSH did start this article with the intent of generating those comments, dont blame the dumb fish, blame the bait.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:First you build him up to be the world´s best winger and now he´s not the finished article. Which is it to be miteyironpaw.

I think it´s a dangerous road to go down saying a player is the world´s best. How do you separate Juan Smith, Thierry Dusatoir and Jerome Kaino for example. I just think you should be grateful if any one of those is in your team.

I don't have a problem with people saying Ashton can be the leading try scorer again. He knows his way to the try line. But he still has a lot to learn and like you say that could well make him very formidable. Let´s not go overboard with the hype and just see what he does. At the moment, Ashton is in danger of having the same amount of hype as Croft did. I don´t think we've seen the best of Croft yet by any stretch and we haven't seen the best of Ashton. But when he's at his best, he looks very good. Just be content with that and leave him to build his own legacy.

Kiakaaahorata - purely on the basis of his try scoring record. You want a winger to finish well, he does. At the moment, that makes him the best in the world. I know that statistics and rankings can be subjective and are easily skewed. But NZ dine out on their #1 ranking regularly without considering the advantage they have in regularly playing to top 2 other sides and hence increased ability to regain any lost points/places.

When NZ, SA or Australia have a stand out player, for example Carter, Genia, Matfield we have no problem in praising them. It seems the primary objection to Ashton is that he's English, and the feeling is that English backs have to be rubbish. Now I'm not saying there's nothing more to wing play than scoring tries, any more than I'd say all there is to being a hooker is scrummaging well and throwing straight to the line out; but we have to have some basis for comparison and at the end of the day you don't keep a winger who can't finish moves well. We all celebrated Jonah when he was scoring tries and overlooking his defensive frailties and lack of a kicking game. I put Ashton in the same category. He has an X factor and always seems to pop up the right place. Just because he's the best, doesn't mean he can't get better; any more than Carter or McCaw can't get better, or Genia and Beale can't get better despite being the best in the world in their spots.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:]oh please. Can we stop the emotional dislike of this guy?

To be fair HERSH did start this article with the intent of generating those comments, dont blame the dumb fish, blame the bait.

Oh. Didn't realise that. Comprehension dawns, even on a tired lunkhead like me.
I like the expresson, by the way. Blame the bait. Not too bad. Not too bad at all.............

To answer the question - yes and no.

Yes he can do it again - score most of his tries against poor opposition. Im sure he can get a few against Georgia and Romania if England play them again, and may get a few against Italy if they play like 10 year old girls as last year ( aided by a ref who seemed blind to forward passes).

But no, he won't be the top or try scorer this year, he's not playing that well at the moment and his defence will let him down so badly I think he'll be dropped before the end of the 6's.
Im not saying the bloke is all bad or anything, he has pace and an eye for the line. But realistically that's it. He did score 15 tries for England ( 9 of which were against Italy, Romania and Georgia) so he can't be too bad.

As for him being 'the greatest winger ever to play the game' ! come on!
Not even his mam would claim that. What pathetic nonsense, he's hardly been around more than 5 minutes and now he's the best ever.
I'd be surprised if he scores more than 3 tries this 6N's.

Could he do it again?
Of course.

With their scratch pack, will England get the ball for him to do it again?
It's unlikely.

He may have scored a lot against Italy, but if it's so easy, why didn't any one else? Italy beat world cup finalists France.