New Low For Rafa

Having read the comments he and Uncle Toni have made in light of the recent contadour scam.

For me Rafa has hit a new low with speaking in support of 'cheating' and I for one have lost respect for the fact he has made some rather bizarre comments aimed at Federer and the ATP Tour in general.

He can learn from other pro's around him that do not support such radical event.

LK

Rafa is going on like it's a conspiracy in the Contador case. He should leave that talk to Contador's management team. Nosey git.

What was his previous low?

legendkillar

I didn't know you had any respect to lose...

I'm not sure what the correct response is when someone makes an ugly video of you implying that you cheat and then puts it on National TV. Do you think you should be given style points for how you respond?

He is further implicating himself in all of this by defending him and by also by Toni's comments. They should both learn to keep their gobs shut!

Spanish sports believe they are above the law. Despicable characters.

Well they are not the brightest bunch...........

You're all French.

amritia3ee wrote:You're all French.

If you're saying we want drug cheats banned then yes. We are French in that case.

No need to call it a new low, which is unnecessarily tendentious.

I do, however, think Nadal should not have tweeted what he did about Contador because he is, unwittingly or not, essentially stating himself to be opposed to the consequences of a central tenet of the current anti-doping laws, namely responsibility of an athlete for what is in her/her body. The outcome can seem harsh in individual cases, but (a) most athletes get by and (b) without that provision the anti-doping rules would be almost completely deprived of any substance.

Furthermore, as I have said elsewhere, Contador does not enjoy a generally clean reputation - even many of his supporters acknowledge this on various blogs.

Finally, such tweets tend to play into the hands of those who suggest that for Spanish people the nationality of the sportsman is more important than whether or not they have been caught taking drugs.

What are you on about now JM?
Who's the drug cheat?

As far as I am aware the French bitter media made a crude video trying to belittle Nadal's achievements and indeed all Spanish sports stars, saying did not win by 'luck' (aka implying they are all cheats, even though only 1 has been convicted- and that too in cycling where virtually everyone is on steroids). Nadal said in an interview said he was sad and disappointed at the crude video.
I don't think Nadal should defend any stupid cyclist, but he can if he want, he defended Gasquet when he was caught.

Y I Man

How come legendkillars article hasn't been almalgamated with the other article on this topic? We now have two negative articles about Nadal. When I tried tried to write a more positive article from Nadal's perspective it was almalgamated with the negative one.

Just saying...

amritia3ee wrote:What are you on about now JM?
Who's the drug cheat?

As far as I am aware the French bitter media made a crude video trying to belittle Nadal's achievements and indeed all Spanish sports stars, saying did not win by 'luck' (aka implying they are all cheats, even though only 1 has been convicted- and that too in cycling where virtually everyone is on steroids). Nadal said in an interview said he was sad and disappointed at the crude video.
I don't think Nadal should defend any stupid cyclist, but he can if he want, he defended Gasquet when he was caught.

I would think about learning something before posting stuff like this with your knickers in a twist.

Any fan of a sport like tennis who is happy to point the finger at cycling as being a 'dirty' sport whilst worshipping their own 'clean' heroes needs to have a little think about what they're saying. Cycling has had some rather damaging scandals and in light of those are completely cracking down as much as they possibly can, the problem with this is that every failed test causes more bad press. (and more finger pointing from clueless pinheads.)

Operacion Puerto was a huge SPANISH doping scandal (yes their were a few from other nations involved) and we know their were in excess of 100 names (mainly spanish) on Dr Fuentes' list. Due to legal pressure from certain large sporting governing bodies, only the cyclists were named. So, for the clueless, this turned into another cycling scandal.

A French newspaper (was it Le Monde?) named Mr Nadal as being on the list. They were fined for this because no names other than the cyclists were allowed to be named. Nadal did not pursue legal action against the newspaper (which would be a pretty straightforward thing if his name wasn't on the list.) Any ideas as to why Nadal didn't pursue legal action against a newspaper that stated that his name was on a list of people who had received illegal assistance from a disgraced doctor?

Then there's Operacion Galgo (another large SPANISH doping scandal). This was a scandal involving many Spanish athletes, but was mainly a look into the cynical and widespread nature of doping in Spanish sport in general and the root causes of it.

hawkeye wrote:Y I Man

How come legendkillars article hasn't been almalgamated with the other article on this topic? We now have two negative articles about Nadal. When I tried tried to write a more positive article from Nadal's perspective it was almalgamated with the negative one.

Just saying...

Yawwwwwnnnnnnnnn

legendkillar. Are you Y I Man?

Hawkeye,

What are your thoughts on Nadal and his moaning?

Don't you think he should stop complaining and focus on tennis?

legendkillar wrote:Hawkeye,

What are your thoughts on Nadal and his moaning?

Don't you think he should stop complaining and focus on tennis?

Perhaps you should stop complaining about everything Rafa says and focus on the tennis. There is a Davis Cup match going on today, you know.

List of athletes named

According to the Guardia Civil,[20][31][32] the following athletes have been named.
[edit]Cyclists
[edit]Teams
Astana-Würth
Alberto Contador – removed from the case by Spanish courts (26 July 2006).[22]
Allan Davis – removed from the case by Spanish courts (26 July 2006),[22] investigation closed by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (14 December).[33]
Joseba Beloki – removed from the case by Spanish courts (26 July 2006).[22]
David Etxebarría
Isidro Nozal – removed from the case by Spanish courts (26 July 2006).[22]
Unai Osa
Sérgio Paulinho – removed from the case by Spanish courts (26 July 2006).[22]
Michele Scarponi - admitted he is Zapatero in Fuentes' files[29]. Scarponi was suspended on 16 May 2007.[34]
Marcos Serrano
Ángel Vicioso
Comunidad Valenciana
Vicente Ballester – removed from the case by Spanish courts (28 July 2006).[35]
David Bernabeu – removed from the case by Spanish courts (28 July 2006).[35]
David Blanco – removed from the case by Spanish courts (28 July 2006).[35]
José Adrián Bonilla – removed from the case by Spanish courts (28 July 2006).[35]
Juan Gomis – removed from the case by Spanish courts (28 July 2006).[35]
Eladio Jiménez – removed from the case by Spanish courts (28 July 2006).[35]
David Latasa – removed from the case by Spanish courts (28 July 2006).[35]
Javier Pascual Rodríguez – removed from the case by Spanish courts (28 July 2006).[35]
Rubén Plaza – removed from the case by Spanish courts (28 July 2006).[35]
[edit]Individuals
AG2R Prévoyance
Francisco Mancebo – initially retired from cycling,[36] but having severed ties with AG2R,[37] joined Spanish professional continental team Relax-Gam.[38] In 2009 he raced with USA-based Rock Racing.
Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears
Constantino Zaballa
Alejandro Valverde – the source of blood marked VALV.(PITI) (Piti being believed to be the name of Valverde's dog at the time).[39] Valverde was suspended from racing in Italy from May 2009, and in May 2010 a two year suspension, backdated to 1 January 2010, was applied.
Team CSC
Ivan Basso – Basso's contract with CSC was terminated by mutual agreement on 18 October 2006.[40] On 27 October 2006 the case was dropped by the Federazione Ciclistica Italiana due to lack of evidence,[41] and he was then employed in December 2006 by Discovery Channel.[42] On 24 April 2007 Basso was suspended by Discovery Channel when the Italian National Olympic Committee (CONI) reopened his case. On 1 May 2007 Basso requested to be released from his Discovery Channel contract. This was granted.[43] Basso attended a hearing on 2 May,[44] and on 7 May 2007, admitted that he was Birillo.[3] Basso was suspended on 16 May 2007.[34]
Fränk Schleck - Schleck admitted transferring nearly 7000 euros to a bank account held by Dr. Fuentes, but denied any doping or personal contact with Fuentes.[45]
Phonak Hearing Systems
José Ignacio Gutiérrez
José Enrique Gutiérrez
Santiago Botero – case dropped by disciplinary committee of the Federación Colombiana de Ciclismo (2 October 2006).[46]
Saunier Duval-Prodir
Carlos Zárate
Koldo Gil
T-Mobile Team
Óscar Sevilla - codename Sevillano.
Jan Ullrich - DNA tests confirmed that the 9 bags that were marked Jan, number 1 or Hijo Rudicio (Son of Rudy) all contained Jan Ullrich's blood.[4] An alleged doping plan was published in the newspaper, Süddeutsche Zeitung, where Ullrich's suspected doping during the first week of the 2005 Tour de France was described.[47]
Tinkoff Credit Systems
Tyler Hamilton - at the time of the initial investigation, Hamilton was suspended for a prior doping offence. Politiken, a Danish newspaper, published details of alleged doping diary of Hamilton during the 2003 season when he rode for Team CSC. It described intake of EPO, growth hormones, testosterone and insulin on 114 days during the 200 day season of 2003.[48] According to allegations originally published in El País, Hamilton is to have paid over €43,000 to Fuentes and that in 2003 Hamilton took erythropoietin, blood transfusions, growth hormone, a hormone taken by menopausal women and anabolic steroids.[49]
Jörg Jaksche - at the time of the initial investigation, Jaksche rode for Astana-Würth. On 30 June 2007, Jaksche admitted to Der Spiegel that he used Fuentes' services. He said that he was Bella, or number 20. Jaksche had been under suspension by Tinkoff Credit Systems since May.[30]
Unibet
Carlos García Quesada
[edit]Already retired or suspended
Michele Bartoli - on 25 May 2007 La Gazzetta dello Sport reported that Bartoli was connected to Fuentes with the code name Sansone. Bartoli has not commented on this accusation.[50]
Ángel Casero
Roberto Heras
Santiago Pérez
Marco Pantani (deceased) Corriere della Sera reported that Pantani was connected to Fuentes with the code name PTNI in 2003.[51]
[edit]Other athletes
On 5 July 2006, Fuentes was indignant that only cyclists had been named and said he also worked with tennis and football players.[52] On 27 July 2006, IAAF was assured by Spanish prosecutors that no track and field athletes were involved.[53] On 23 September 2006, former cyclist Jesús Manzano told reporters from France 3 that he had seen "well-known footballers" from La Liga visit the offices of Dr Fuentes.[54]
In May 2007 Sepp Blatter, president of FIFA, at a World Anti-Doping Agency meeting in Montreal, was reportedly interested in the contents "of the Puerto file".[55] Le Monde had reported in December 2006 that they had possession of documents of Fuentes detailing "seasonal preparation plans" for Spanish football clubs FC Barcelona and Real Madrid. These plans did not specifically name any players.[56] This news seem to be only rumors, since the French journal lost its trials in 2009 and 2011 against the FC Barcelona because he could not produce any proof of its allegations. In the ultimate judgement, on 14 November 2011, it was condemned to pay 15,000 euros of indemnity for "using false and unverified facts".[57]
No other athletes had been named.

I already told you that.

Big scandal....lots involved...only the cyclists allowed to be named.

Why the cut and paste job, it doesn't really do your argument of 'Spain is clean' many favours?

Barrystar. Top post.

hawkeye wrote:Y I Man

How come legendkillars article hasn't been almalgamated with the other article on this topic? We now have two negative articles about Nadal. When I tried tried to write a more positive article from Nadal's perspective it was almalgamated with the negative one.

Just saying...

Oh how rich coming from someone who has posted about twenty negative Murray articles and here you are sobbing about two negative Nadal articles. How does it feel hawkeye?

CaladonianCraig

Have I ever accused Murray of doing anything illegal? Quite frankly I'm surprised that that this sort of vindictive slander hasn't been moderated.

I'll put the question back to you. As someone who gets upset when your favourite player gets some criticism for things he actually does and says. Do you think its right that certain posters take such vindictive glee in spreading dirt when there is no proof that any dirt exists?

No I don't but you do the same to a degree so quit moaning or start practising what you preach.

Well I'm glad we agree that it's wrong to take vindictive glee in spreading dirt! Should we just keep quiet about it though!

As for Murray. Maybe we should talk about him elswhere.

No I see no point in having a conversation with one so close-minded.

hawkeye wrote:Y I Man

How come legendkillars article hasn't been almalgamated with the other article on this topic? We now have two negative articles about Nadal. When I tried tried to write a more positive article from Nadal's perspective it was almalgamated with the negative one.

Just saying...

Could it have anything to do that you tend to write 72 articles about the same subject and LK rarely does?

CaladonianCraig

... and I thought we could be friends.

banbrotam

Maybe you should check what subject I was referring to before jumping in to defend "LK". The subject was "the RFLT planning to sue Canal+ France". I have only ever produced one article on this subject. I was hoping it would be somewhere that people could comment if they disagreed with all the unfounded vindictive speculation on this matter.

hawkeye wrote:CaladonianCraig

... and I thought we could be friends.

banbrotam

Maybe you should check what subject I was referring to before jumping in to defend "LK". The subject was "the RFLT planning to sue Canal+ France". I have only ever produced one article on this subject. I was hoping it would be somewhere that people could comment if they disagreed with all the unfounded vindictive speculation on this matter.

For somebody who spends their time, mocking Andy Murray - you're remarkably sensitive when being mocked yourself

The words, pot, kettle, black, spring to mind!!!

Have a much humour in dealing with your critics as Andy does with his

Now now Hawky. Remember your more popular than me by your logic.

Why won't you wanswer my questions about Rafa keeping quiet and worry about his tennis instead?

legendkillar wrote:Having read the comments he and Uncle Toni have made in light of the recent contadour scam.

For me Rafa has hit a new low with speaking in support of 'cheating' and I for one have lost respect for the fact he has made some rather bizarre comments aimed at Federer and the ATP Tour in general.

He can learn from other pro's around him that do not support such radical event.

Do you know exactly what he said,would like to know thanks

Veejay wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Having read the comments he and Uncle Toni have made in light of the recent contadour scam.

For me Rafa has hit a new low with speaking in support of 'cheating' and I for one have lost respect for the fact he has made some rather bizarre comments aimed at Federer and the ATP Tour in general.

He can learn from other pro's around him that do not support such radical event.

Do you know exactly what he said,would like to know thanks

His comments were posted on another thread.

Not one for duplicating.

amritia3ee wrote:What are you on about now JM?
Who's the drug cheat?

As far as I am aware the French bitter media made a crude video trying to belittle Nadal's achievements and indeed all Spanish sports stars, saying did not win by 'luck' (aka implying they are all cheats, even though only 1 has been convicted- and that too in cycling where virtually everyone is on steroids). Nadal said in an interview said he was sad and disappointed at the crude video.
I don't think Nadal should defend any stupid cyclist, but he can if he want, he defended Gasquet when he was caught.

Any stupid cyclist!!!!!??!?!
My opinion of you has fallen.