expectations and aspirations

Do Wales currently see Eng as their biggest rivals? If so why? I think Warren Gatland has tried to get them thinking beyond Eng and should be and is I suspect treating this match as just another. I have a sneaking fear that his quiet media time recently is an indication that he is taking out the emotion in this game and preping his players to do a professional number on us. Personally I can't see us winning if this is the case, if wales do get emotional then it could be tight and let us pick away at their continuity/discipline.

hmmmm....

Rivals in this order...

France
Ireland
England
Scotland
Italy

I agree there's a distinct lack of media hype for this one.

chuckle. It's always so difficult to tell with the French and the fact we've only seen them once so far doesn't help. But I think they have a point or two to prove and looked ominously good on their only outing so far. France Wales seems the likely GS decider at present. Probably be a heck of a game.

I think the coaching mind games and the raising/lowering of emotional levels, if possible in a Six Nations, is far overblown by the media. To me, its not much more then psychobabble by the coaches. But the media love this stuff.

These are the Six Nations. Everyone is emotional. Its imprinted into everyone's DNA. Players are going to go out and give a great effort because winning is that important.

THis young welsh team IMO appears to lack -ve emotion - there has been a complete culture change here - When behind as in the RWC and Ireland they don't panic - They have composure and are calculated. Saturday will be another great test for them but I dont detect the histrionics with North, Jamie, JD and Warburton et al - Its refreshing and mature

Its going to be interesting to see if the class of WC and post WC have that mentally to be hungry for the win. We already demonstrated it against Ireland in this 6nations where we didnt hit the implode button, I think beating England away would be a great victory as not only does our record against them at Twickenham look pretty shameful but it will prove that we can block out the past and deliver the goods when it matters.

Saying that, I would trade a 6nations slam, triple crown or even a win this year for a series win over in Australia later on.

I'll take both Mike

slartibartfast wrote:hmmmm....

Rivals in this order...

France
Ireland
England
Scotland
Italy

I agree there's a distinct lack of media hype for this one.

Who are you trying to kid.

We (England) may not be at our historic best but we are still Wales biggest scalp in the 6Ns.

Look at the banter. The hype will only increase from now on, everyone knows it, it's unstoppable.

Surely Gatland's "quiet media time" is because of his ambition to coach the Lions. He does not want to upset the other unions or opposition players when he might be coaching them in the future.

The thing is that the young Wales players came back enthused by the world cup and seem to see the next four years as building towards a realistic challenge for 2015. To do that they need to beat the Southern Hemisphere and be the no 1 side in the North. Thats a really big ask and simply winning the grand slam means nothing to them if in the long term it doesnt build towards that. Gatland talking about the tour to Australia in the summer at yesterdays press conference is indicative of this teams aspirations.

I think in 2005 certainly and in 2008 the players went on a party and thought that winning the slam was the be all and end all for them. For this squad winning the championship is only the next step on a very long road.

Winning the slam would be great but for me winning the series in Australia would be a greater achievement and has to be what we aspire to.

As for England, yes they are our traditional rivals but in previous periods of welsh dominance they have been a side issue. In the 70s we were more pumped about beating france than beating England and losing to the blacks in 78 was a worse feeling than losing to the Sais in 1980. Its funny how the wheel seems to be turning full circle isnt it.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

slartibartfast wrote:hmmmm....

Rivals in this order...

France
Ireland
England
Scotland
Italy

I agree there's a distinct lack of media hype for this one.

Who are you trying to kid.

We (England) may not be at our historic best but we are still Wales biggest scalp in the 6Ns.


Look at the banter. The hype will only increase from now on, everyone knows it, it's unstoppable.

Do some of you English really believe that? Both France and Ireland are bigger scalps than England. Twickenham has not been happy hunting for the Welsh of late so it's not going to be easy. To say England are our biggest scalps though is very much wrong. The days of as long as we beat the English are long gone-we only use that to wind you up when either we beat you or have a poor side thats losing to everyone else.
We will always want to beat our closest, better funded greater resourced neighbour. Especially as over the years when Wales were poor English fans have been so gracious in their victories over Wales - yeah right!


We've already played one of our two hardest games this 6N's against Ireland. We won - only just -but it was a win. France are our next big rivals. England or Italy could cause an upset, it would be more likely to be England than Italy as we're away from home but don't delude yourselves into thinking you're considered more difficult to beat, bigger scalps etc than Ireland or France or that Wales see you as more of a threat because youre not.

England sill have their hardest games to come. They may scrape a win from one of them but I'll be shocked if it's more than that.

You always look at the next step up the ladder for your rivals. So the Welsh should have France in their sights. Their composure against Ireland was the mark of a very good side. Actually it reminded me of the Ireland team of the noughties. They had the composure and confidence to come out on top in many tight scraps.

However that Ireland teams success was mostly down to great attacking play. The current Ireland team has a very good pack. This Wales team has both. Great attacking play and a pack that can go toe to toe with the best. I think they'll probably achieve more than Ireland's high win rate and clutch of triple crowns in the noughties. I think they'll go further and win multiple Championships in the next decade.

Scotland have poor backs. Ireland are weak in midfield. England aren't very strong in the backrow and lack creativity in midfield too. France and Wales look strong in every department. I wonder will the lineout cost Wales though. It shouldn't be as shoddy as it is.

Speakin as an Irishman, England is the team i look forward to Ireland playing every year and the team i want Ireland to beat every time.

But aren't all scalps important, sure there are those teams you beat more regularly than others, but the next test is always the biggest in my eyes.

Of course they are biltong but some teams you just want to beat more than any other and for me thats England.

I wanna beat them all. There is no other way for me. Be it the all Blacks or Wales.

I do want Ireland to come to SA though and show them what happens when you beat us away and refuse to come to our shores.

biltongbek wrote:I wanna beat them all. There is no other way for me. Be it the all Blacks or Wales.

I do want Ireland to come to SA though and show them what happens when you beat us away and refuse to come to our shores.

PK for Mr biltong for being rather cheeky.....

We'll have to take care of them for you instead then biltong. Any requests? You have the mighty England coming dont you?
Wanna swap?

This year Taylorman, this year Ireland are going to win one test match against you

Taylorman, enjoy the Irish, I heard they are coming to our shores next year, it is a good thing because by then Heyneke Meyer should have his squad settled and reay to exact revenge on the poor Irish. I am sure you know what to do with them.


Yes we have the English here in June, looking forward to continuing the dominance, just hope Heyneke Meyer is as well.

You dont frighten us biltong.... Thanks to Zuid Afrika, Irelands victory percentages over SH teams is quite high

You mean those 3 home wins have made a real dent in your usually unsatisfactory stats?

Yes, i mean those..... you are gunning for a PK biltong

I thought that you were going to mention the game when Ireland scored the winning try while Smit was talking to his players there for a second

I knew you are an objective Irish supporter and hence no need for me to remind you.

You KNOW you were lucky.

Were Ireland lucky or was Smit incredibly silly for not listening to the ref correctly?

eirebilly wrote:Were Ireland lucky or was Smit incredibly silly for not listening to the ref correctly?

You opened this can of worms, so let's discuss it.

It was audible enough on the referees mike to hear him say to john smit to get his team together and talk to them.

By that he intimated that he would stop the clock and give him time. It was once again one of those situations where communication and intent were mixed up.

Sad, but true.

What i heard was the ref tell Smit to talk to his team, yes. He didnt give any indication that time was being taken off so the onus was on Smit to ask for time, he didnt. ROG asked the ref if the tap could be taken, ref said yes and the rest is in the history books

To be fair though i agree that it was a combination of communication errors between the ref and Smit plus the cheekiness and awareness of ROG

As much as I love the banter for the Wales england games, this season especially I think our biggest game is against France. Yes I think the boys will be determined to win on saturday, but I think for this team they will want to put one over on France having lost so narrowly with 14 men in the world cup game.
I don't think this Welsh team or management see any of the NH teams as big scalps at the moment as we have beaten them all in recent seasons. To me the REAL big scalps are the big 3 of the SH

I think there is some confusion going on regarding who are the biggest scalps and who do you have great rivalries with? Clearly these days England are not a great team and beating Ireland, France and the Southern Hemisphere 3 is considered to be a greater achievement. I would have to concur with that. But there is no doubt that traditionally many countries love to beat England more than anyone else (no need to start that debate). So despite England's lowly status for many fans they want to beat England more than any other team. If Wales are setting their sights on RWC 2015 and in the shorter term this 6Ns and the summer tour then that is a very healthy sign that they mean real business. Wales need to concentrate and get a result on Sat and then move on to greater challenges ahead. Hopefully England can upset the Welsh plans and move forward themselves. Enjoy.

I am not so sure England is as bad as everyone thinks.

I agree that they aren't playing exciting rugby. they are pedantic in the forwards, especially at the breakdowns where everything is slowed and thus they don't gain any rythm or momentum in attack, and their back line players although individually talented does not play as a cohesive unit.

But much like scotland at the moment it can click in one game, what must also be understood is that they are in a transitional pahse at the moment, and hence won't settle until a permanent coach has been appointed.

But saying they are at a deemed lower status is underestimating them to a certain degree.

I for one expect them to give us one hell of a go when they arrive in June with ourselves having a new coach and an unknown future squad..

Bilton - you are going to have to take those rose tinted specs off one day - The tide has turned

Even as a passionate Eng fan I have to admit that England are not currently a great team. I have to accept the evidence as seen by my own eyes. Despite the difficult conditions etc the 2 performances so far have been poor even if they did get wins. Add that to the dire RWC performances and England have regressed considerably since beating Aus in autumn international and beating Wales last year at MS. Of course England do have some decent players so they can improve and I expect them to, but on current form they should be well beaten on Sat. Luckily sport is not that predictable.

RubyGuby wrote:Bilton - you are going to have to take those rose tinted specs off one day - The tide has turned

My specs are tinted GREEN my friend, GRASS GREEN.

All I am saying is I am not so confident about facing the english as you are.

I think England will click eventually, I think defensively they are sound, it is in attack they currently seem inept and have done for some time. I hope Wales do win on the weekend, but I dont see it being the thrashing that some of the Welsh(and english) pundits are talking of. I'll just be happy with a win

Bilton don't kid yourself, those green glasses have a red tint running stright through them - must be a colonial connection somewhere

RubyGuby wrote:Bilton don't kid yourself, those green glasses have a red tint running stright through them - must be a colonial connection somewhere

biltong knows which colours are best.... Green all the way

eirebilly wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Bilton don't kid yourself, those green glasses have a red tint running stright through them - must be a colonial connection somewhere

biltong knows which colours are best.... Green all the way

You got it mate, the colonialism in my blood is very, very absent. I still remember the anglo/Boere oorlog.

what was it again, 100 000 vs 10 boere. Boy and did we klap them.

eirebilly wrote:This year Taylorman, this year Ireland are going to win one test match against you

i hope its the wellington one then billy. Have always said id be down at mollys on courtney placr if they do to celebrate with the local and visiting irish

Taylorman wrote:

eirebilly wrote:This year Taylorman, this year Ireland are going to win one test match against you

i hope its the wellington one then billy. Have always said id be down at mollys on courtney placr if they do to celebrate with the local and visiting irish

Taylorman, i am gutted that i wont be there for the series. Would have loved to catch up with a few of my mates in Rottonrua for a Lion red

biltong, are you of Dutch decent?

From my dad's side yes and my mom's side French.

A proper Sth African then

I have to say that I see the Irish game as a much bigger game now and France is always a big game but I think Wales should be looking at Aus and SA as our closest rivals. they are the ones we have come close to beating recently but just fallen. They are the ones we should be targetting and I'm pretty sure Gatland will be.

Surely, despite the potential and good rugby they are playing, Wales haven't actually won anything yet therefore they'd be better off just focusing on the next three games and attaching equal importance to ALL of them. I agree with the original post that it appears Gatland is attempting to do that.

I'm also not sure, given how professional this Welsh outfit is that the players have a concept of biggest rival. The fans on the other hand.........

My expectations are similar to Moody's prior to the start of the 6 Ns ie 3 wins.

Anything above that with England's new team & management should realistically be considered above expectation.
As for Saturday I expect a close contest and would like to see a more expansive England (not that hard really ;-) )

Aspirations - I would like to see a clearer pathway for the continually successful age grade youngsters of England, into the EPS.
I believe SL would be one of the best drivers for this process.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:My expectations are similar to Moody's prior to the start of the 6 Ns ie 3 wins.

Anything above that with England's new team & management should realistically be considered above expectation.
As for Saturday I expect a close contest and would like to see a more expansive England (not that hard really ;-) )

Aspirations - I would like to see a clearer pathway for the continually successful age grade youngsters of England, into the EPS.
I believe SL would be one of the best drivers for this process.

I hope SL doesn't get the job full time, i've serious doubts about his nous at the highest level of the game. Equally i hope the RFU offer him something in the development teams/programme's because i agree that he has a lot to give at that level.

Its not that I want us to be England more than any other team, just that losing to them feels worse than against others.

Wales biggest scalps this year realistically should be:

France
Australia
South Africa

Those are the 3 that are above us (but in touching distance).

Ireland/England are in and around there, but we're now 3 from 3 in our last games with Ireland and England/Wales is always a close tetchy affair thats in the balance. No disrespect to them, but the 3 teams mentioned above have all won their last 2/3 games against us, those are the scalps we should be aiming for.

Building up to the next 57 years of welsh dominance over the all blacks of course.

2/3 Comfort

ill stay at 2/3, due to erm, poor memory