Weight Stipulations and Manny

tunes666 wrote:Pac Man beat Cotto up, why is FMW not fighting him?.... same old crap...

No weight issues to "even" things out.

Paq a cheater? Well I suppose forcing your opponent to fry down to a weight that doesn't suit them for a title bout is a form of cheating.

azania wrote:Paq a cheater? Well I suppose forcing your opponent to fry down to a weight that doesn't suit them for a title bout is a form of cheating.

Or bulk up and not bother to make the catchweight

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Paq a cheater? Well I suppose forcing your opponent to fry down to a weight that doesn't suit them for a title bout is a form of cheating.

Or bulk up and not bother to make the catchweight

Or not bother making the light middleweight then claim your a "champion" there...150 good enough for Margarito but not for Cotto.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Paq a cheater? Well I suppose forcing your opponent to fry down to a weight that doesn't suit them for a title bout is a form of cheating.

Or bulk up and not bother to make the catchweight

With no title at stake.

Simple question. Does (did) he use them to get an unfair advantage or to equalise the difference in weight. Bear in mind that 145 was good for Cotto, but he went up to 150 to fight the other cheat.

Its all good to say that the guy doesn't have to accept the stips, but considering that he would be earning in excess of $3m to fight Paq, refuse that and go back to earning $500k. Its a no brainer.

If Pacquiao claims to be the best fighter he should not fight Cotto at catchweight...Funny how some people claim Manny is past his best and Mayweather will beat with his ease now...Yet when it comes to putting their p4p list up have Manny first you could not make it up.

'the other cheat'
Surely you aint calling Manny a cheat? Cotto said himself he felt okay at the weight for that fight. Miguel looks in good shape now to say the fight is over 2 months away, he doesn't look anywhere near 12 stone let alone the 11 he has to make or so, hopefully he turns up in his best form, if he does he's more than a match for anyone.

Cotto is a proud guy. Will never make excuses. I cant wait to see the one-2-one in the build up to the floyd fight when asked about that.

I've always maintained that Cotto is made for Floyd. A good fighter but does nothing special.

azania wrote:Cotto is a proud guy. Will never make excuses. I cant wait to see the one-2-one in the build up to the floyd fight when asked about that.

I've always maintained that Cotto is made for Floyd. A good fighter but does nothing special.

Would have to fancy Mayweather on points myself, just hope Cotto has 1 more special night in him and wins, prefer him to Mayweather and Pacquiao tbh.

He wasnt an established welterweight when he fought Cotto. His only previous fight there had been de la Hoya I think, one of the few opponents that he held no leverage over. Plus the money on offer made it worth the risk. I viewed his 145lb as Pacquaio moving up a bit and Cotto moving down a bit.

I think having it at 147lb would have been better obviously, but I get the feeling that 145lb thing is used as weapon by people who just dont like Pacquiao more than any other reason.

Boxing is life threatening, Pacquiao asking for a catchweight doesn't make it more so.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Boxing is life threatening, Pacquiao asking for a catchweight doesn't make it more so.

Are you being serious? Ask yourself why weigh ins are now 24 hours before the fight.

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Boxing is life threatening, Pacquiao asking for a catchweight doesn't make it more so.

Are you being serious? Ask yourself why weigh ins are now 24 hours before the fight.

Sorry you're wrong as you almost always are, Pacquiao didn't put Cottos life at any more risk.

Did Benn put McLellans life at risk?
Did Eubank put Watsons life at risk?
Did Pintor put Owens life at risk?
Did Mancini put Kims life at risk?

The simple answer is no, they put their own lifes at risk as Cotto did, as Margarito did.

oxring wrote:Manos once made an excellent post - reminding people that in some cases - the catchweight is actually pretty fair. If you're worried that the catchweight shouldn't be there for a title fight - then blame the sanctioning body.

Ever noticed that az really doesn't like the boxers who are portrayed as nice guys? Leonard, Pacquiao, Wlad Klitschko, Holyfield?

Essentially - give him 2 animals in the ring mauling each other and he'll be a happy man for life.

Since when have sanctioning bodies been concerned about the fighters? They are on par with promoters and just above plankton in my opinion.

But boxers are a different matter. They step into the ring and if there is a serious injury, they have to live with the consequences and the possible guilt in forcing another competitor to boil down to earn a huge payday.

And yes, all these supposed humble boxers get on my nerves. Give me Mayorga, Tyson, Ali, Naz, Toney and the rest nutters to hype up a fight. It gets the blood punping. This isn't a gentleman's club (less the lap dancers). This is about 2 guys willing to render the other guy incapable of standing up for at least 10 seconds.

More or less agree Manos... He weighed in 146 for the fight before that extra pound wasnt the difference in the fight.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Boxing is life threatening, Pacquiao asking for a catchweight doesn't make it more so.

Are you being serious? Ask yourself why weigh ins are now 24 hours before the fight.

Sorry you're wrong as you almost always are, Pacquiao didn't put Cottos life at any more risk.

Did Benn put McLellans life at risk?
Did Eubank put Watsons life at risk?
Did Pintor put Owens life at risk?
Did Mancini put Kims life at risk?

The simple answer is no, they put their own lifes at risk as Cotto did, as Margarito did.

Why do they have weigh ins 24 hours before the fight as opposed to the day of the fight?

steven24 wrote:

azania wrote:Cotto is a proud guy. Will never make excuses. I cant wait to see the one-2-one in the build up to the floyd fight when asked about that.

I've always maintained that Cotto is made for Floyd. A good fighter but does nothing special.

Would have to fancy Mayweather on points myself, just hope Cotto has 1 more special night in him and wins, prefer him to Mayweather and Pacquiao tbh.

I like Cotto. But his face gets busted up pdq. He needs to fight a disciplined fight, but I fear his skills do not match up.

To allow fighters to rehydrate but i'm guessing that is the fault of Manny Pacquiao as well.

manos de piedra wrote:He wasnt an established welterweight when he fought Cotto. His only previous fight there had been de la Hoya I think, one of the few opponents that he held no leverage over. Plus the money on offer made it worth the risk. I viewed his 145lb as Pacquaio moving up a bit and Cotto moving down a bit.

I think having it at 147lb would have been better obviously, but I get the feeling that 145lb thing is used as weapon by people who just dont like Pacquiao more than any other reason.

Sorry Manos but I dont buy that for a second. He was an active WW when he fought Cotto. That was done for an advantage and not to dip his toes in the division. He dipped his foot in there when he fought Oscar.

People often say its only 1lb. Well why not make it another 1lb. After all its only 1lb.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:To allow fighters to rehydrate but i'm guessing that is the fault of Manny Pacquiao as well.

Why do they rehydrate?

This is tedious. You know very well they weigh in 24 hours for health reasons. So forcing a fighter to come in underweight is dangerous and 24 hours is not enough time. They are still weak in cutting the weight,

Because that makes it 2lbs, it was only 1lb.

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:To allow fighters to rehydrate but i'm guessing that is the fault of Manny Pacquiao as well.

Why do they rehydrate?

This is tedious. You know very well they weigh in 24 hours for health reasons. So forcing a fighter to come in underweight is dangerous and 24 hours is not enough time. They are still weak in cutting the weight,

And thats Pacquiaos fault, there was me thinking that Cotto signed the contract of his own volition but of course Pacquiao and Arum held him at gunpoint and forced him to sign.

AlexHuckerby wrote:Because that makes it 2lbs, it was only 1lb.

Which he was. 2lbs under the WW limit. Why not go for the extra lb? Why not 2? Heck, why not fight at flyweight?

Alot of top fighters have engaged in catchweight bouts:

De la Hoya
Marquez
Wright
Taylor
Trinidad
Mayorga
Leonard

Mayweather scheduled one, then didnt stick to it against Marquez.

Chavez against Whitaker was a catchweight if I remember correctly.

Even going back to early years its has occured. McLarnin v Ross was a catchweight as was Gans v Walcott. Kid Gavilan had a few I think. Probably alot many others that either Im not aware of or werent recorded/reported. In some cases the agreements are kept private or not disclosed. Ortiz v Berto for example was privately agreed that Berto weigh in below 146 by many accounts.

I cant think of anyone else, other than possibly Leonard for his fight with Lalonde that got as much stick. Which is why I think its mainly a tool to attack Pacquiao with.

Reckon its a consequence of the odlh bout - my god he looked like a corpse.

The fight should have been at the normal WW limit, but Cotto weighing a single pound less takes everything away from Pacs win? Give me a break....

I mean that its subsequently tainted all his catchweights

manos de piedra wrote:Alot of top fighters have engaged in catchweight bouts:

De la Hoya
Marquez
Wright
Taylor
Trinidad
Mayorga
Leonard

Mayweather scheduled one, then didnt stick to it against Marquez.

Chavez against Whitaker was a catchweight if I remember correctly.

Even going back to early years its has occured. McLarnin v Ross was a catchweight as was Gans v Walcott. Kid Gavilan had a few I think. Probably alot many others that either Im not aware of or werent recorded/reported. In some cases the agreements are kept private or not disclosed. Ortiz v Berto for example was privately agreed that Berto weigh in below 146 by many accounts.

I cant think of anyone else, other than possibly Leonard for his fight with Lalonde that got as much stick. Which is why I think its mainly a tool to attack Pacquiao with.

ALl those you mentioned were CW fighters. I didn;t like them and dont like them now. Moreover dont be fooled into believing that Oscar asked Hop to come down to 156 because Oscar was dipping his toes in the MW division. He wasted an extra advantage. Good that he lost. Furthermore the common there is that its the bigger draw boxer who imposes the CW conditions also. I believe there's something in that.

And before I hear the pedantic police I mean a single pound less than his previous bout.

manos de piedra wrote:Alot of top fighters have engaged in catchweight bouts:

De la Hoya
Marquez
Wright
Taylor
Trinidad
Mayorga
Leonard

Mayweather scheduled one, then didnt stick to it against Marquez.

Chavez against Whitaker was a catchweight if I remember correctly.

Even going back to early years its has occured. McLarnin v Ross was a catchweight as was Gans v Walcott. Kid Gavilan had a few I think. Probably alot many others that either Im not aware of or werent recorded/reported. In some cases the agreements are kept private or not disclosed. Ortiz v Berto for example was privately agreed that Berto weigh in below 146 by many accounts.

I cant think of anyone else, other than possibly Leonard for his fight with Lalonde that got as much stick. Which is why I think its mainly a tool to attack Pacquiao with.

ALl those you mentioned were CW fighters. I didn;t like them and dont like them now. Moreover dont be fooled into believing that Oscar asked Hop to come down to 156 because Oscar was dipping his toes in the MW division. He wasted an extra advantage. Good that he lost. Furthermore the common there is that its the bigger draw boxer who imposes the CW conditions also. I believe there's something in that.

The Pacquiao/ de la Hoya fight wasnt a catchweight. It was a regular welterweight fight.

manos de piedra wrote:Alot of top fighters have engaged in catchweight bouts:

De la Hoya
Marquez
Wright
Taylor
Trinidad
Mayorga
Leonard

Mayweather scheduled one, then didnt stick to it against Marquez.

Chavez against Whitaker was a catchweight if I remember correctly.

Even going back to early years its has occured. McLarnin v Ross was a catchweight as was Gans v Walcott. Kid Gavilan had a few I think. Probably alot many others that either Im not aware of or werent recorded/reported. In some cases the agreements are kept private or not disclosed. Ortiz v Berto for example was privately agreed that Berto weigh in below 146 by many accounts.

I cant think of anyone else, other than possibly Leonard for his fight with Lalonde that got as much stick. Which is why I think its mainly a tool to attack Pacquiao with.

ALl those you mentioned were CW fighters. I didn;t like them and dont like them now. Moreover dont be fooled into believing that Oscar asked Hop to come down to 156 because Oscar was dipping his toes in the MW division. He wasted an extra advantage. Good that he lost. Furthermore the common there is that its the bigger draw boxer who imposes the CW conditions also. I believe there's something in that.

AlexHuckerby wrote:The fight should have been at the normal WW limit, but Cotto weighing a single pound less takes everything away from Pacs win? Give me a break....

2lbs.

Interesting that he asked Cotto for a rematch at 147. Is that now because Paq is a full blown WW or because he is aware that a weight drained boxer is not as good as he would be at his optimum weight?

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Alot of top fighters have engaged in catchweight bouts:

De la Hoya
Marquez
Wright
Taylor
Trinidad
Mayorga
Leonard

Mayweather scheduled one, then didnt stick to it against Marquez.

Chavez against Whitaker was a catchweight if I remember correctly.

Even going back to early years its has occured. McLarnin v Ross was a catchweight as was Gans v Walcott. Kid Gavilan had a few I think. Probably alot many others that either Im not aware of or werent recorded/reported. In some cases the agreements are kept private or not disclosed. Ortiz v Berto for example was privately agreed that Berto weigh in below 146 by many accounts.

I cant think of anyone else, other than possibly Leonard for his fight with Lalonde that got as much stick. Which is why I think its mainly a tool to attack Pacquiao with.

ALl those you mentioned were CW fighters. I didn;t like them and dont like them now. Moreover dont be fooled into believing that Oscar asked Hop to come down to 156 because Oscar was dipping his toes in the MW division. He wasted an extra advantage. Good that he lost. Furthermore the common there is that its the bigger draw boxer who imposes the CW conditions also. I believe there's something in that.

Or that its the smaller fighter coming up.....

True but there were weight stipulations - Personally DLH was at fault for that although I denied it at first. Think its tainted pacquiao.

Think you mean McLarnin against Villa Manos.

I have next to no issue with catchweight fights but don't think titles should ever be on the line.

Out of interest Az, what do you think of Julio Cesar Chavez snr?

manos de piedra wrote:The Pacquiao/ de la Hoya fight wasnt a catchweight. It was a regular welterweight fight.

Yes I know. But who made the stipulations? Oscar probably say Paq as a SFW and thought he would walk thr u him. Didn't Team Paq ask for Oscar to come in no heavier at 147 on fight night or is that an urban myth?

azania wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:The fight should have been at the normal WW limit, but Cotto weighing a single pound less takes everything away from Pacs win? Give me a break....

2lbs.

Interesting that he asked Cotto for a rematch at 147. Is that now because Paq is a full blown WW or because he is aware that a weight drained boxer is not as good as he would be at his optimum weight?

Like I said 1lb to his previous bout.

Chances are, az read DLH, Leonard and Taylor - saw a nice guy image and found an additional reason to dislike someone.

Actually - who were the fighters not allowed to rehydrate under penalties of 10m dollars per lb over on fight night.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Think you mean McLarnin against Villa Manos.

I have next to no issue with catchweight fights but don't think titles should ever be on the line.

Out of interest Az, what do you think of Julio Cesar Chavez snr?

Loved the bloke. A no nonsense fighter.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Alot of top fighters have engaged in catchweight bouts:

De la Hoya
Marquez
Wright
Taylor
Trinidad
Mayorga
Leonard

Mayweather scheduled one, then didnt stick to it against Marquez.

Chavez against Whitaker was a catchweight if I remember correctly.

Even going back to early years its has occured. McLarnin v Ross was a catchweight as was Gans v Walcott. Kid Gavilan had a few I think. Probably alot many others that either Im not aware of or werent recorded/reported. In some cases the agreements are kept private or not disclosed. Ortiz v Berto for example was privately agreed that Berto weigh in below 146 by many accounts.

I cant think of anyone else, other than possibly Leonard for his fight with Lalonde that got as much stick. Which is why I think its mainly a tool to attack Pacquiao with.

ALl those you mentioned were CW fighters. I didn;t like them and dont like them now. Moreover dont be fooled into believing that Oscar asked Hop to come down to 156 because Oscar was dipping his toes in the MW division. He wasted an extra advantage. Good that he lost. Furthermore the common there is that its the bigger draw boxer who imposes the CW conditions also. I believe there's something in that.

Plus you stated above you liked Mayorga. He drained Vargas down for their bout. But the fact he is a general animal probably makes it ok in his case I guess.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

azania wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:The fight should have been at the normal WW limit, but Cotto weighing a single pound less takes everything away from Pacs win? Give me a break....

2lbs.

Interesting that he asked Cotto for a rematch at 147. Is that now because Paq is a full blown WW or because he is aware that a weight drained boxer is not as good as he would be at his optimum weight?

Like I said 1lb to his previous bout.

If it wouldn't have made a difference why impose it. I recall a you tube video where Roach saying that Paq would fight SSM at 142 and "why not give my guy an advantage"?

ShahenshahG wrote:Actually - who were the fighters not allowed to rehydrate under penalties of 10m dollars per lb over on fight night.

Wasn't that in the Floyd JMM contract? And was also in the Cotto contract (losing $500K per lb).

If it makes no difference then why has Mayweather himself imposed a catchweight on an opponent?

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Alot of top fighters have engaged in catchweight bouts:

De la Hoya
Marquez
Wright
Taylor
Trinidad
Mayorga
Leonard

Mayweather scheduled one, then didnt stick to it against Marquez.

Chavez against Whitaker was a catchweight if I remember correctly.

Even going back to early years its has occured. McLarnin v Ross was a catchweight as was Gans v Walcott. Kid Gavilan had a few I think. Probably alot many others that either Im not aware of or werent recorded/reported. In some cases the agreements are kept private or not disclosed. Ortiz v Berto for example was privately agreed that Berto weigh in below 146 by many accounts.

I cant think of anyone else, other than possibly Leonard for his fight with Lalonde that got as much stick. Which is why I think its mainly a tool to attack Pacquiao with.

ALl those you mentioned were CW fighters. I didn;t like them and dont like them now. Moreover dont be fooled into believing that Oscar asked Hop to come down to 156 because Oscar was dipping his toes in the MW division. He wasted an extra advantage. Good that he lost. Furthermore the common there is that its the bigger draw boxer who imposes the CW conditions also. I believe there's something in that.

Plus you stated above you liked Mayorga. He drained Vargas down for their bout. But the fact he is a general animal probably makes it ok in his case I guess.

I think you are missing my point altogether. I dont like CW fights, period. No matter if its imposed by Floyd, RJJ, Ali or whoever.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:If it makes no difference then why has Mayweather himself imposed a catchweight on an opponent?

Makes no difference on what?

Then why constantly admonish Pacquiao for it but no one else?

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:If it makes no difference then why has Mayweather himself imposed a catchweight on an opponent?

Makes no difference on what?

Why do you hate on Pacquiao for requesting a catchweight but not Mayweather?