Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
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Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
First topic message reminder :
Well I think all in all its been a good Six Nations so far, unless you are French where i haven't seen many positives outside of the front row and the inside centre.
That said we all have seen ups and downs in our own teams, positives and negatives.
The exciting thing for all of us rugby fans despite our nationality is the fact that there are some great new players for us to swoon over each weekend and for the future too.
This championship is very much one that alludes to what will happen in the future not the present despite your teams current standing, a very positive championship in that respect that hopefully will be a pointer to the coaches of what they have to work with and what they have to expect over the next RWC cycle.
Who are your stand out players after round 4...?
USUAL GENTLEMANLY RULES APPLY, DO NOT CRITICISE SOMEONE ELSE TEAM SELECTION UNTIL YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR OWN...!!!
Well I think all in all its been a good Six Nations so far, unless you are French where i haven't seen many positives outside of the front row and the inside centre.
That said we all have seen ups and downs in our own teams, positives and negatives.
The exciting thing for all of us rugby fans despite our nationality is the fact that there are some great new players for us to swoon over each weekend and for the future too.
This championship is very much one that alludes to what will happen in the future not the present despite your teams current standing, a very positive championship in that respect that hopefully will be a pointer to the coaches of what they have to work with and what they have to expect over the next RWC cycle.
Who are your stand out players after round 4...?
USUAL GENTLEMANLY RULES APPLY, DO NOT CRITICISE SOMEONE ELSE TEAM SELECTION UNTIL YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR OWN...!!!
Last edited by maestegmafia on Mon 12 Mar 2012, 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Yeah, agreed. It's not always clear who is going to shine until a few games into the tour. It just seems to suit the temperament of some players more than others, Roberts and Bowe are both stand-up chaps that fit in well.Standulstermen wrote:I think there are certain people who really embrace the lions tour and ethos. Jamie Roberts and tommy Bowe were perfect examples of this last time i felt. It could bring the best out of certain players.
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
SafeAsMilk wrote:maesteg, I've seen you posted before that you thought the England front row were poor. I agree with WPI's comments above. I thought they coped well enough with their French opposition. I guess we'll just have to disagree. Totally disagree that Corbs had an "awful day".maestegmafia wrote:WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Cole, Hartley and Corbs were at the least the equal of the much vaunted French front row and towards the end they dominated them. Why have so few people gone for them? Especially Cole, he is playing like an extra flanker these days.
I thought they were poor, in the scrum and in the loose. Hartley was penalised at least twice for standing up, Cole for a bind and Corbisiero had an awful day trying to deal with Mas.
Agree SafeAs.
This is a youngish England front row who have performed well this 6 Nations. The scrum was a pretty evenly contested affair yesterday, with both sides gaining penalties and on occasion forcing the opposition back. England need to stick with this front 3 and continue to let them develop together.
Ozzy3213- Moderator
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
To be honest there was a 20 minute period of the game when it didn't really have my attention so maybe I'm being unfair. Unlike some though it was nothing to do with him being side-stepped by Greybeshocked wrote:B91212 you thought that Kearney was quiet? Surprised by that!
I thought Kearney was very good.
He would still be my pick for the Lions if they were playing tomorrow.
B91212- Posts : 1714
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Location : Canada
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Agree 100%. My one concern is that if we picked up an injury in the summer then we don't really have anybody with any international experience who is good enough to come in.Ozzy3213 wrote:This is a youngish England front row who have performed well this 6 Nations. The scrum was a pretty evenly contested affair yesterday, with both sides gaining penalties and on occasion forcing the opposition back. England need to stick with this front 3 and continue to let them develop together.
B91212- Posts : 1714
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Roberts and Tuilagi in midfield would be a very one dimensional combination against Australia - I'd have JD2 ahead of them both anyway on recent form.
The Great Aukster- Posts : 5246
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
The Great Aukster wrote:Roberts and Tuilagi in midfield would be a very one dimensional combination against Australia - I'd have JD2 ahead of them both anyway on recent form.
Tuilagi has plenty of pluses but he needs to learn to offload and get his back three into the game, something that pus him behind Davies, Earls and BOD.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
RubyGuby wrote:15 - Pugh
14 - Pugh
13 - Barney McGrew
12 - Cuthbert
11 - Dibble
10 Grubb
9 - Sam
Only Cuthbert in the back line for me
Very flattering, but I was a hooker.
Barney McGrew did it- Posts : 1606
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
maestegmafia wrote:RubyGuby wrote:
3. Corbisiero
Corbisiero is a Loosehead not a tighthead and he didnt have a very good game, was getting a pasting off Mas in the scrums.
I believe there was 2 pens against both Mas & Corbs - so honours even there
BigTrevsbigmac- Posts : 3342
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
A lot of these teams look unsuprisingly similar, but there are a few points I want to make (after I name my team obviously)
Cole
Ghialdini (over Best just)
Healy
Gray (WOW)
Pape (Parling very unlucky)
Ferris (sorry Croft, mention Lydiate)
Favaro (beats Robshow narrowly)
Parisse (try savers all over the park)
Parra (what an impact sub)
Farell (SUPERB, NOONE ANYWHERE NEAR THAT PERFORMANCE)
Cuthbert
Roberts (beats Barrit because of the try)
Davies (couldn't decide between he and Fofana)
Fofana (just beats Bowe)
Kearney (just because his game was more rounded than Foden)
I know I'll take some stick for that team, especially considering there are less Englishman than French, but I have reasoning.
I can't beleive anyone put Hartley or Tuilagi into their side, they were both awfull in a very good team yesterday!
I though Ghiraldini was excellent under pressure at the scrum, and threw well in the lineout not to mention the defencive work he did!!!
Pape was one of very few players who stood up against the onslaught first half, his lineout and restart were excellent!
As I said Croft was poor first half and blended in without offering anything, much better 2nd half but Ferris was excellent throughout.
Morgan was good, but the one break and offload can't compare to what Parisse had to do all day long!
Parra made a supersub appearance and showed why he's one of the best in the world, plus Dickson aside there was no other comp.
Davies and Fofana were both dangerous at 13, and with little competition I couldn't pick between them, so Fofana beat Bowe to the wing.
NO TUILAGI WASN'T GOOD!!
Kearney beats foden because Foden didn't offer quality options from kicking, he just runs like forest gump, against a more organised defence he gets isolated and struggles.
Cole
Ghialdini (over Best just)
Healy
Gray (WOW)
Pape (Parling very unlucky)
Ferris (sorry Croft, mention Lydiate)
Favaro (beats Robshow narrowly)
Parisse (try savers all over the park)
Parra (what an impact sub)
Farell (SUPERB, NOONE ANYWHERE NEAR THAT PERFORMANCE)
Cuthbert
Roberts (beats Barrit because of the try)
Davies (couldn't decide between he and Fofana)
Fofana (just beats Bowe)
Kearney (just because his game was more rounded than Foden)
I know I'll take some stick for that team, especially considering there are less Englishman than French, but I have reasoning.
I can't beleive anyone put Hartley or Tuilagi into their side, they were both awfull in a very good team yesterday!
I though Ghiraldini was excellent under pressure at the scrum, and threw well in the lineout not to mention the defencive work he did!!!
Pape was one of very few players who stood up against the onslaught first half, his lineout and restart were excellent!
As I said Croft was poor first half and blended in without offering anything, much better 2nd half but Ferris was excellent throughout.
Morgan was good, but the one break and offload can't compare to what Parisse had to do all day long!
Parra made a supersub appearance and showed why he's one of the best in the world, plus Dickson aside there was no other comp.
Davies and Fofana were both dangerous at 13, and with little competition I couldn't pick between them, so Fofana beat Bowe to the wing.
NO TUILAGI WASN'T GOOD!!
Kearney beats foden because Foden didn't offer quality options from kicking, he just runs like forest gump, against a more organised defence he gets isolated and struggles.
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Ozzy3213 wrote:SafeAsMilk wrote:maesteg, I've seen you posted before that you thought the England front row were poor. I agree with WPI's comments above. I thought they coped well enough with their French opposition. I guess we'll just have to disagree. Totally disagree that Corbs had an "awful day".maestegmafia wrote:WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Cole, Hartley and Corbs were at the least the equal of the much vaunted French front row and towards the end they dominated them. Why have so few people gone for them? Especially Cole, he is playing like an extra flanker these days.
I thought they were poor, in the scrum and in the loose. Hartley was penalised at least twice for standing up, Cole for a bind and Corbisiero had an awful day trying to deal with Mas.
Agree SafeAs.
This is a youngish England front row who have performed well this 6 Nations. The scrum was a pretty evenly contested affair yesterday, with both sides gaining penalties and on occasion forcing the opposition back. England need to stick with this front 3 and continue to let them develop together.
Remember
USUAL GENTLEMANLY RULES APPLY, DO NOT CRITICISE SOMEONE ELSE TEAM SELECTION UNTIL YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR OWN...!!!
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
1 - Corbs
2 - Rory Best
3 - Mas
4 - Donnacha ryan
5 - Parling
6 - Croft
7 - Robshaw (C)
8 - Denton
9 - Dickson
10 - Sexton
11 - Cuthbert
12 fofana
13 - Tuilagi
14 -Bowe
15 - Kearney
2 - Rory Best
3 - Mas
4 - Donnacha ryan
5 - Parling
6 - Croft
7 - Robshaw (C)
8 - Denton
9 - Dickson
10 - Sexton
11 - Cuthbert
12 fofana
13 - Tuilagi
14 -Bowe
15 - Kearney
flankertye- Posts : 732
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Six Nations - Team of the Week
Team of the Week - Round 4
ESPNscrum Staff
March 12, 2012
15. Ben Foden (England)
The fullback had been sold short by his England team-mates prior to Sunday's win over France, but he showed his aptitude for a good support line to bag his side's second try and put them on their way to victory.
14. Alex Cuthbert (Wales)
The Cardiff Blues wing picked up the Man of the Match award in Wales' win over Italy and his tireless work off the ball was rewarded late in the game with a breakaway try, his second in Tests.
13. Manu Tuilagi (England)
Since his reintroduction to the side following injury England have rediscovered a cutting edge in attack. His charge to the corner for their first try against France showed a good turn of pace and eye for an opportunity, even if it was perhaps overshadowed by Chris Ashton's tackle and Owen Farrell's offload in the build-up.
12. Wesley Fofana (France)
France weren't at the races collectively on Sunday, but Fofana again found time to shine. His try late on opened up their chance for an unlikely comeback and also continued an excellent record of tries in his first four Tests. It's easy, international rugby.
11. Chris Ashton (England)
Tempted as we were to drop him for mouthing off to referee Alain Rolland - costing his side a penalty - Ashton scrapes in on the back of that tackle. A moment of brilliance from the future Saracens man, and a game-changing one at that.
10. Owen Farrell (England)
The Jonny Wilkinson comparisons may be tiresome, but the young fly-half just keeps adding to his repertoire. His kicking from the tee was again immaculate in Paris and his offload for Tuilagi's try was sublime.
9. Lee Dickson (England)
Since stepping in for the out-of-sorts Ben Youngs, Dickson has added organisation and bite behind England's pack. His delivery is swift and he won't take a backwards step.
1. Gethin Jenkins (Wales)
The loosehead took over the captaincy from Sam Warburton after the flanker succumbed to injury and led from the front, battling at the breakdown and holding up his end of the scrum challenge against the Azzurri.
2. Rory Best (Ireland)
Another stand-in captain, Best accepted the honour from Paul O'Connell and crashed over for Ireland's first try against Scotland - his second of the tournament.
3. Dan Cole (England)
France wanted their scrum to be the fearsome platform exhibited against Scotland and in the latter stages against Ireland, but it didn't materialise. Cole was at the forefront and also made a telling contribution in defence, with one tackle saving a potential try.
4. Richie Gray (Scotland)
Another massive display from the Scotland lock, with a try to add to an all-action display. He will hope that his team-mates can catch up soon, as a career spent as a lone shining light could become wearisome. On current evidence, looks to be Scotland's best hope of a British & Irish Lions Test player in 2013.
5. Donnacha Ryan (Ireland)
The lock was thrust into the starting berth that his form this season deserved and he didn't disappoint. Excellent at the lineout and bullish in defence, he should be inked into the starting line-up from now on. Another Man of the Match.
6. Tom Croft (England)
The flanker is at his best in the wide open spaces and while there were few to be found against France, he showed acceleration and awareness to burst clear and seal the game for England with a solo try. Honourable mentions go to the superb Stephen Ferris of Ireland and Wales' tackling machine, Dan Lydiate.
7. Peter O'Mahony (Ireland)
A young player with plenty of promise, O'Mahony took his first Test start in his stride after being called in to replace the injured Sean O'Brien. A strong operator at the breakdown and workhorse around the field, he could be a real option in years to come.
8. Ben Morgan (England)
The Gloucester-bound back-rower had a storming first-half in Paris and punched holes through the French line seemingly at will. Once such burst created Foden's try and turned the game in England's favour early on.
Team of the Week - Round 4
ESPNscrum Staff
March 12, 2012
15. Ben Foden (England)
The fullback had been sold short by his England team-mates prior to Sunday's win over France, but he showed his aptitude for a good support line to bag his side's second try and put them on their way to victory.
14. Alex Cuthbert (Wales)
The Cardiff Blues wing picked up the Man of the Match award in Wales' win over Italy and his tireless work off the ball was rewarded late in the game with a breakaway try, his second in Tests.
13. Manu Tuilagi (England)
Since his reintroduction to the side following injury England have rediscovered a cutting edge in attack. His charge to the corner for their first try against France showed a good turn of pace and eye for an opportunity, even if it was perhaps overshadowed by Chris Ashton's tackle and Owen Farrell's offload in the build-up.
12. Wesley Fofana (France)
France weren't at the races collectively on Sunday, but Fofana again found time to shine. His try late on opened up their chance for an unlikely comeback and also continued an excellent record of tries in his first four Tests. It's easy, international rugby.
11. Chris Ashton (England)
Tempted as we were to drop him for mouthing off to referee Alain Rolland - costing his side a penalty - Ashton scrapes in on the back of that tackle. A moment of brilliance from the future Saracens man, and a game-changing one at that.
10. Owen Farrell (England)
The Jonny Wilkinson comparisons may be tiresome, but the young fly-half just keeps adding to his repertoire. His kicking from the tee was again immaculate in Paris and his offload for Tuilagi's try was sublime.
9. Lee Dickson (England)
Since stepping in for the out-of-sorts Ben Youngs, Dickson has added organisation and bite behind England's pack. His delivery is swift and he won't take a backwards step.
1. Gethin Jenkins (Wales)
The loosehead took over the captaincy from Sam Warburton after the flanker succumbed to injury and led from the front, battling at the breakdown and holding up his end of the scrum challenge against the Azzurri.
2. Rory Best (Ireland)
Another stand-in captain, Best accepted the honour from Paul O'Connell and crashed over for Ireland's first try against Scotland - his second of the tournament.
3. Dan Cole (England)
France wanted their scrum to be the fearsome platform exhibited against Scotland and in the latter stages against Ireland, but it didn't materialise. Cole was at the forefront and also made a telling contribution in defence, with one tackle saving a potential try.
4. Richie Gray (Scotland)
Another massive display from the Scotland lock, with a try to add to an all-action display. He will hope that his team-mates can catch up soon, as a career spent as a lone shining light could become wearisome. On current evidence, looks to be Scotland's best hope of a British & Irish Lions Test player in 2013.
5. Donnacha Ryan (Ireland)
The lock was thrust into the starting berth that his form this season deserved and he didn't disappoint. Excellent at the lineout and bullish in defence, he should be inked into the starting line-up from now on. Another Man of the Match.
6. Tom Croft (England)
The flanker is at his best in the wide open spaces and while there were few to be found against France, he showed acceleration and awareness to burst clear and seal the game for England with a solo try. Honourable mentions go to the superb Stephen Ferris of Ireland and Wales' tackling machine, Dan Lydiate.
7. Peter O'Mahony (Ireland)
A young player with plenty of promise, O'Mahony took his first Test start in his stride after being called in to replace the injured Sean O'Brien. A strong operator at the breakdown and workhorse around the field, he could be a real option in years to come.
8. Ben Morgan (England)
The Gloucester-bound back-rower had a storming first-half in Paris and punched holes through the French line seemingly at will. Once such burst created Foden's try and turned the game in England's favour early on.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Woops, completely forgot about Grey. Probably get rid of Parling for him.
flankertye- Posts : 732
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
I find it funny how Lydiate is known as the tackling machine of rugby, yet Ferris doubled his tackle count in the last game. Lydiate got 9, Ferris got 18. In fact I don't think Lydiate has beaten Ferris in any game yet in terms of the tackle count.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Gray
5. Ryan
6. Ferris
7. O'Mahony
8. Parisse
9. Parra
10. Farrell
11. Trimble
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. Cuthbert
15. Kearney
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Gray
5. Ryan
6. Ferris
7. O'Mahony
8. Parisse
9. Parra
10. Farrell
11. Trimble
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. Cuthbert
15. Kearney
Last edited by Feckless Rogue on Mon 12 Mar 2012, 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Feckless Rogue- Posts : 3230
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
ESPN make me laugh, you'd think they'd watch some games England are not involved in every now and then...
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Rory when you put the fact that we have been the better team V most this tourny it kind of leaves him without people to tackle, whats he going to do start tackling his own players?!
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
thebluesmancometh wrote:ESPN make me laugh, you'd think they'd watch some games England are not involved in every now and then...
Ashton's a rather strange choice (though I thought he was decent against France, despite his silly mouthing off), but apart from that I think all the England players mentionned are worthy contenders. England after all easily produced the best result of R4, so IMO deserve decent representation. I'd go
Foden
Cuthbert
Tuilagi
Fofana (but needs to stop butchering tries)
Trimble
Farell
Dickson
Morgan
Tipsuric
Croft
Ryan
Gray
Cole
Best
Healy
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
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Age : 36
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
thebluesmancometh wrote: the better team V most .................
Oh? Curious now. Go on, tell us which side Wales wasn't the better side against. This'll be interesting
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Chelsea
The question wasn't who deserves most numbers it was who was best in each position.
England were good, but there are far better candidates in their positions than the likes of Ashton, Tuilagi, Morgan, Foden etc...
The question wasn't who deserves most numbers it was who was best in each position.
England were good, but there are far better candidates in their positions than the likes of Ashton, Tuilagi, Morgan, Foden etc...
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
I think in parts England and Ireland had the better of the games, but overall I'd say we deserved to beat both... just.
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
My point had nothing to do with who has been the better team. Sometimes the team with the most possession is not the best team either. My point was that Lydiate is known for his work rate and the "unseen" work. He isn't a good ball carrier. Yet Ferris, as I have been saying this whole 6 nations, does the same thing as Lydiate except better, plus offers a huge threat as a ball carrier. He is a fair bit ahead IMO.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
thebluesmancometh wrote:I think in parts England and Ireland had the better of the games, but overall I'd say we deserved to beat both... just.
Good man...I think so too (well for the Ireland one anyway). But I also know that first Irish game was our worst performance...Wales certainly played well enough to win but we played self-inflicted nonsense too.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Rory_Gallagher wrote:My point had nothing to do with who has been the better team. Sometimes the team with the most possession is not the best team either. My point was that Lydiate is known for his work rate and the "unseen" work. He isn't a good ball carrier. Yet Ferris, as I have been saying this whole 6 nations, does the same thing as Lydiate except better, plus offers a huge threat as a ball carrier. He is a fair bit ahead IMO.
+1
Gretgael1- Posts : 371
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Well if you have more ball Rory it means you cannot make tackles... It's not rocket science mate.
I've never claimed anyway that Ferris is not a better player, he is a freak of nature and probably one of the best 6's on the planet, but he wouldn't get into the Welsh starting lineup at present!
I've never claimed anyway that Ferris is not a better player, he is a freak of nature and probably one of the best 6's on the planet, but he wouldn't get into the Welsh starting lineup at present!
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
thebluesmancometh wrote:Chelsea
The question wasn't who deserves most numbers it was who was best in each position.
England were good, but there are far better candidates in their positions than the likes of Ashton, Tuilagi, Morgan, Foden etc...
really? Ashton, OK, but "far better candidates" than the other three, just don't see it. Foden was excellent all day and ran a very good support line for his try, Morgan made yards constantly, and set up said try beautifully, and Tuilagi took his try well and got over the gain line all day.
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
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Age : 36
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Why wouldn't he? Like I just said, he offers the same defensive capabilities that Lydiate is known for, or even more going by the stats (and by simply watching the games for those who hate the stats) and he offers a much bigger threat going forward. I didn't mention the tackles in that last post I made, I mentioned Lydiate's workrate. Before that, I pointed out that mr "tackling machine" Lydiate doesn't actually make as many tackles as Ferris.
Why would the player who we both seem to agree is better, not get ahead of Lydiate?
Why would the player who we both seem to agree is better, not get ahead of Lydiate?
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
thebluesmancometh wrote:Well if you have more ball Rory it means you cannot make tackles... It's not rocket science mate.
I've never claimed anyway that Ferris is not a better player, he is a freak of nature and probably one of the best 6's on the planet, but he wouldn't get into the Welsh starting lineup at present!
I really don't understand statements like this one. Ferris is a better player than Lydiate, you've even said so yourself. As Rory said already, Ferris not only matches what Lydiate does, but betters it. Just because the Welsh backrow is playing well as a unit, doesn't mean that it can't get better. If Ferris does everything better how would this upset the balance? I think it would obviously improve what was already there.
Gretgael1- Posts : 371
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Location : Tipperary
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Because Rory mate, and do try to keep up. Lydiate is part of a defencive unit, and a back row partnership, he works very well with those around him to ensure linespeed is optimium, he works with Warbs and Falatau in combination tackles, they know each other and get on well and thus the unit works better when all 3 are there. Lydiate is the type of player you only miss when he's not there.
And the clincher for me is, the Wales backrow has been best in all games theyve played so far, the Irish 3 are arguably better man for man but as a unit they are poor. As Croft is for England they are very good but they havn't and will not be given a chance to become part of the Welsh unit, Lydiate and co works, and it will not change.
Morgan and Foden were good, but Parisse and Kearney were far better IMO in all aspects, Kearney mixed his game up well, and Parisse was a superstar!
Tuilagi was Tuilagi, got put in for a 40 yarder with noone in front of him, Rougerie and Dupuy are not quick players, they are flanker speed at best, he then butchered a few opportunities with numbers and players around him to make those few hard gainline yards you speak of.
And the clincher for me is, the Wales backrow has been best in all games theyve played so far, the Irish 3 are arguably better man for man but as a unit they are poor. As Croft is for England they are very good but they havn't and will not be given a chance to become part of the Welsh unit, Lydiate and co works, and it will not change.
Morgan and Foden were good, but Parisse and Kearney were far better IMO in all aspects, Kearney mixed his game up well, and Parisse was a superstar!
Tuilagi was Tuilagi, got put in for a 40 yarder with noone in front of him, Rougerie and Dupuy are not quick players, they are flanker speed at best, he then butchered a few opportunities with numbers and players around him to make those few hard gainline yards you speak of.
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Well firstly, you quite clearly have something against Tuilagi and it is a bit silly to say he had nobody in front of him, he had a lot of work to do and finished wonderfully.
As for your comments on Lydiate and the whole "balance" thing most welsh fans go on about, once again Ferris as an individual, does everything DEFENSIVELY that Lydiate can do, but better. So unless the only reason you are saying Ferris wouldn't be ahead of Lydiate is because the welsh back row "know each other" I can't agree with you at all. Lydiate is not as good as Ferris defensively (but still good), and not nearly as good in attack (where he is poor).
As for your comments on Lydiate and the whole "balance" thing most welsh fans go on about, once again Ferris as an individual, does everything DEFENSIVELY that Lydiate can do, but better. So unless the only reason you are saying Ferris wouldn't be ahead of Lydiate is because the welsh back row "know each other" I can't agree with you at all. Lydiate is not as good as Ferris defensively (but still good), and not nearly as good in attack (where he is poor).
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
bluesman, your Tuilagi comments (and general comments on "Islanders") are getting a bit
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
^ Gretgael1 puts it better than I do. Read what he says.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 32
Location : Belfast
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
thebluesmancometh wrote:Morgan and Foden were good, but Parisse and Kearney were far better IMO in all aspects, Kearney mixed his game up well, and Parisse was a superstar!
Tuilagi was Tuilagi, got put in for a 40 yarder with noone in front of him, Rougerie and Dupuy are not quick players, they are flanker speed at best, he then butchered a few opportunities with numbers and players around him to make those few hard gainline yards you speak of.
fair enough, everyone's allowed their opinion, however mis-guided that opinion may be
I actually thought Parisse had a rare average game against Wales, sure he worked hard in defense but didn't dominate the line-out or make that many meters ball in hand IIRC (someone will post the stats in a moment and I'll feel like an idiot ). I think there's a tendency to always rave about him as he's the only world class player in the team, but sometimes he has off days. Keaney was good too, just felt Foden was that little bit better (that may be me being biased).
I agree Tuilagi should pass the ball more, but he did what he does well, and TBH didn't think any centres really stood out for me this week-end. Rougerie was very poor, JD2 not at his best, Earls isn't really an OC though did OK, the Italian guy tackled hard all day but offered little ball in hand, Evans got himself stupicly sin-binned (however poor the reaction from Earls, it was a silly tug). Same with IC really, where I went with Fofanna despite his butchering an easy try.
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
Join date : 2011-02-11
Age : 36
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Nope, you're totally right Mad, Parisse only made 7 metres.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 32
Location : Belfast
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST TUILAGI!!!
He is good at what he does, but you will all come back and give me credit when you realise he is really killing off your back 3. Another very good player not int he game (Sharples) and frustrated he has to go for interceptions he can't get. All of Fodens good work is from Kick return and support play in the middle of the park because he's giving up on being out wide.
I had a conversation with Billtong and a few the other day about his buitchering opportunities!!!
He did ok for the try, but Rougerie was 40m away and Dupuy the back tracking beaten defender, it was a jog in like Roberts's was. He made a good jump to avoid being put into touch I'll give him that.
Boys if you don't think a unit is more important than the sum of it's parts then theres no point me debating with you, you need to go and spend some time around the game.
Players gel or don't gel for no apparent reasons sometimes, look at Hook, arguably one of the most talented players to play for Wales, yet he and Roberts are just not able to click, Preistland is a far inferior player to Hook but he is a better combination.
Look at Wilko and Flood last 6N, Wilko on fire in France and people were talking about him winning another WC, yet Flood worked better with Youngs and offered a better option for the backline.
I could go on all day but these 3 guys in their early 20's have come up against the best and as a unit worked very well together, Ferris is a monster of an individual.
He is good at what he does, but you will all come back and give me credit when you realise he is really killing off your back 3. Another very good player not int he game (Sharples) and frustrated he has to go for interceptions he can't get. All of Fodens good work is from Kick return and support play in the middle of the park because he's giving up on being out wide.
I had a conversation with Billtong and a few the other day about his buitchering opportunities!!!
He did ok for the try, but Rougerie was 40m away and Dupuy the back tracking beaten defender, it was a jog in like Roberts's was. He made a good jump to avoid being put into touch I'll give him that.
Boys if you don't think a unit is more important than the sum of it's parts then theres no point me debating with you, you need to go and spend some time around the game.
Players gel or don't gel for no apparent reasons sometimes, look at Hook, arguably one of the most talented players to play for Wales, yet he and Roberts are just not able to click, Preistland is a far inferior player to Hook but he is a better combination.
Look at Wilko and Flood last 6N, Wilko on fire in France and people were talking about him winning another WC, yet Flood worked better with Youngs and offered a better option for the backline.
I could go on all day but these 3 guys in their early 20's have come up against the best and as a unit worked very well together, Ferris is a monster of an individual.
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
PS Parisse should've had a MOTM for that, he was absolutely monstrous all over the park, he never had the chance to carry, and when he did was gang tackled.
1/2p will be having nightmares about Parisse being under his bed for weeks after that!!
1/2p will be having nightmares about Parisse being under his bed for weeks after that!!
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
thebluesmancometh wrote:I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST TUILAGI!!!
He is good at what he does, but you will all come back and give me credit when you realise he is really killing off your back 3. Another very good player not int he game (Sharples) and frustrated he has to go for interceptions he can't get. All of Fodens good work is from Kick return and support play in the middle of the park because he's giving up on being out wide.
I had a conversation with Billtong and a few the other day about his buitchering opportunities!!!
He did ok for the try, but Rougerie was 40m away and Dupuy the back tracking beaten defender, it was a jog in like Roberts's was. He made a good jump to avoid being put into touch I'll give him that.
Boys if you don't think a unit is more important than the sum of it's parts then theres no point me debating with you, you need to go and spend some time around the game.
Players gel or don't gel for no apparent reasons sometimes, look at Hook, arguably one of the most talented players to play for Wales, yet he and Roberts are just not able to click, Preistland is a far inferior player to Hook but he is a better combination.
Look at Wilko and Flood last 6N, Wilko on fire in France and people were talking about him winning another WC, yet Flood worked better with Youngs and offered a better option for the backline.
I could go on all day but these 3 guys in their early 20's have come up against the best and as a unit worked very well together, Ferris is a monster of an individual.
This is the second time you've posted something like this today, questioning other people's knowledge of the game when it differs from yours. It reeks of arrogance.
You never referred back to the question I posed. If Ferris is ,at least, equal or better than Lydiate in every department, why couldn't he get into the welsh team? Just because they're playing well does not mean they can't improve. There's no shame in conceding a point. There's no one here saying Lydiate isn't a fine player,
Gretgael1- Posts : 371
Join date : 2011-05-29
Location : Tipperary
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
.Rory_Gallagher wrote:Nope, you're totally right Mad, Parisse only made 7 metres.
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
Join date : 2011-02-11
Age : 36
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Ferris is a better individual, he doesn't defend well within his unit, he tends to find himself out wide every now and then and is even prone to the odd lapse of concentration, goes for the big hit and comes out of his line.
So no he isn't a better player than Lydiate in all aspects, he doesn't have Lydiates discipline, or his organisation skills.
Therefore Ferris wouldn't suit the welsh back row better than Lydiate, who allow Warbs the freedom to go in for the ball at many rucks knowing his generals of Lys and Fal are nearby for cover.
I also don't think Falatau would be able to do what he does best in support and carry into the tight without Lydiate being around.
Thats for me why Heaslip and Ferris don't work too well together, they both enjoy finding defenders to carry into out wide, and neither has the descipline to support and just play the tight game.
So no he isn't a better player than Lydiate in all aspects, he doesn't have Lydiates discipline, or his organisation skills.
Therefore Ferris wouldn't suit the welsh back row better than Lydiate, who allow Warbs the freedom to go in for the ball at many rucks knowing his generals of Lys and Fal are nearby for cover.
I also don't think Falatau would be able to do what he does best in support and carry into the tight without Lydiate being around.
Thats for me why Heaslip and Ferris don't work too well together, they both enjoy finding defenders to carry into out wide, and neither has the descipline to support and just play the tight game.
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Comment, Debate, Create!thebluesmancometh wrote:Boys if you don't think a unit is more important than the sum of it's parts then theres no point me debating with you, you need to go and spend some time around the game
or
Patronise, Annoy, Alienate?
Guest- Guest
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Or if you can't debate the sport, debate the posting eh Safe?
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
There is no debate with you though. It's the same old stuff. There are certain players you don't like and I think we know who they are now. As others have said, when you don't agree with someone you make out that they don't watch enough rugby or are less of an expert than you. Hardly conducive to a discussion is it?
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Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
I have conceded many points when I have been wrong, especially scorelines or player abilities when they have proved me wrong.
Farrell for example, I thought little of in his first game, but he was excellent yesterday, far better than Preist, Sext, and well everyone this week.
Also I have argues for Croft to be left in the team to show what he can do, but I also think his first half yesterday was very poor, and he had a great last 14 only.
I also conceded a statment I made the other day RE: POC and BOD's reaction to the wrong ball incident.
If someone takes my point and explains to me how they feel different it's one thing, but in general people just tell each other theyre wrong without any real nous for why.
I do not dislike any player, I just have differing opinions as the majority and therefore keep getting dragged into arguments against large numbers who all think the same thing. It looks worse than it is!
Farrell for example, I thought little of in his first game, but he was excellent yesterday, far better than Preist, Sext, and well everyone this week.
Also I have argues for Croft to be left in the team to show what he can do, but I also think his first half yesterday was very poor, and he had a great last 14 only.
I also conceded a statment I made the other day RE: POC and BOD's reaction to the wrong ball incident.
If someone takes my point and explains to me how they feel different it's one thing, but in general people just tell each other theyre wrong without any real nous for why.
I do not dislike any player, I just have differing opinions as the majority and therefore keep getting dragged into arguments against large numbers who all think the same thing. It looks worse than it is!
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Thats argued, and 1/4 not 14!!!!
Stupid fingers...
Stupid fingers...
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
thebluesmancometh wrote:Ferris is a better individual, he doesn't defend well within his unit, he tends to find himself out wide every now and then and is even prone to the odd lapse of concentration, goes for the big hit and comes out of his line.
So no he isn't a better player than Lydiate in all aspects, he doesn't have Lydiates discipline, or his organisation skills.
Therefore Ferris wouldn't suit the welsh back row better than Lydiate, who allow Warbs the freedom to go in for the ball at many rucks knowing his generals of Lys and Fal are nearby for cover.
I also don't think Falatau would be able to do what he does best in support and carry into the tight without Lydiate being around.
Thats for me why Heaslip and Ferris don't work too well together, they both enjoy finding defenders to carry into out wide, and neither has the descipline to support and just play the tight game.
How you can say Ferris doesn't defend well within his unit, or within the irish team in general is totally beyond me. He has been the rock in our defence lately. The Irish defence in general has been absolutely fantastic over the 6 nations (excluding the first game).
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 32
Location : Belfast
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
The Irish defended very well first game, but they opened up in attack, and didn't get to grips with the breakdown, the back row unit carried and tackled well, but they didn't give Phillips enough of a headache, except from flopping onto the wrong side.
Ferris and Heaslip took a lot of criticism for acting like wingers in that game!
And then when put under severe pressure Ferris was penalised for a clumsy tackle (I personally don't think it was a penalty, but then I didn't think Sam deserved a red)
The Irish defence has been good against Italy and Scotland, but in reality they weren't exactly testers for your defence.
And V France Sextons work to stifle the French 9 - 10 combo was excellent, but the tackle count got high and France pressure told and Ireland leaked.
For me the first game was the highest quality game because both teams defended well AND attacked well, there was nothing between them and the difference in the end proved a mistake by Ireland under pressure.
My point is, Ferris can get away with playing his style for France because POC picks up his slack and does a lot of the 6 roles, dirty support roles noone sees. Without POC Ireland look a different entity (not that I'm suggesting his leardership etc doesnt count too) and thats partly due to having 3 big 8 style players in the back row and no out and out 7 and 6!
Ferris and Heaslip took a lot of criticism for acting like wingers in that game!
And then when put under severe pressure Ferris was penalised for a clumsy tackle (I personally don't think it was a penalty, but then I didn't think Sam deserved a red)
The Irish defence has been good against Italy and Scotland, but in reality they weren't exactly testers for your defence.
And V France Sextons work to stifle the French 9 - 10 combo was excellent, but the tackle count got high and France pressure told and Ireland leaked.
For me the first game was the highest quality game because both teams defended well AND attacked well, there was nothing between them and the difference in the end proved a mistake by Ireland under pressure.
My point is, Ferris can get away with playing his style for France because POC picks up his slack and does a lot of the 6 roles, dirty support roles noone sees. Without POC Ireland look a different entity (not that I'm suggesting his leardership etc doesnt count too) and thats partly due to having 3 big 8 style players in the back row and no out and out 7 and 6!
thebluesmancometh- Posts : 8358
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
I honestly find it hard to agree with any of that. We were very poor in the first game, and there is the one point I can agree, Ferris did not have a good game. But everything else I just don't agree with at all. Are you honestly saying Ferris isn't an out and out 6?
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 32
Location : Belfast
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Also explain to me what you think Ferris' "style" is, because it seems you've got that one wrong too honestly.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 32
Location : Belfast
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
What about the crap team :-
15 Hogg
14 Lamont
13 Evans
12 Italy
11 Jones
10 Laidlaw/Jackson
9 Italy
8 ? all had good games
7 Italy
6 Barclay
5 Italy
4 Italy
3 Cross
2 Ford
1 Jacobsen
Anyone think of a crap 8 from the weekend ?
15 Hogg
14 Lamont
13 Evans
12 Italy
11 Jones
10 Laidlaw/Jackson
9 Italy
8 ? all had good games
7 Italy
6 Barclay
5 Italy
4 Italy
3 Cross
2 Ford
1 Jacobsen
Anyone think of a crap 8 from the weekend ?
21st Century Schizoid Man- Posts : 3564
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Glasgow
Re: Who were your choice players from 1 to 15 in week four of the Six Nations
Some Stats...!
I picked up on the highlights of the Stats. Respect has to go to Italy for the amount of tackles they made, sensational.
Wales
A. Cuthbert Wing Meters Run 124 Turnovers 2 Defenders Beaten 6
G. North Wing Meters Run 69 Defenders Beaten 4 Offloads 2
J. Davies Center Tackles 4/0
J. Roberts Center Meters Run 100 Tackles 5/0
D. Lydiate Blindside Tackles 9/0
J. Tuperic Openside Tackles 8/0
T. Faletau Number 8 Tackles 7/0 Turnovers 2 Meters Run 27
Team Stats
Missed tackles 2 = 96.8% Success rate
Meters Ran 525
Penalties Conceded 13
England
B. Foden Fullback 91 Meters ran
M. Tuilagi Center 80 Meters Ran
O. Farrell Flyhalf Tackles 9/0
L. Dickson S/Half Turnovers 4
D. Hartley Hooker Tackles 9/1
L. Parling Lock Tackles 11/1
C Robshaw Openside Tackles 13/1
B. Morgan Number 8 64 Meters Ran
Team Stats
Meters Ran 361
Tackles missed 13 = 88.2% Success rate
Penalties Conceded 11
Ireland
R. Kearney Fullback Meters Ran 127 Defenders Beaten 4 Turnovers 2
K. Earls Centre Tackles 11/2 Clean Breaks 2
S. Ferris Blindside Tackles 18/0
P. O'Mahony Openside Tackles 9/1 Penalties Conceeded 3
J Heaslip Number 8 Tackles 7/0
Team Stats
Meters Ran 343
Tackles Missed 10 = 90.3% Success rate
Penalties Conceded 14
France
C. Poitrenaud Fullback/Wing Meters Ran 73 Turnovers 2
A. Rougerie Centre Meters Ran 54
W Fofana Centre Meters Ran 46 Defenders Beaten 3 Turnovers 3
J. Malzieu Wing Meters Ran 51 Offloads 4 Turnovers 4
T. Dausitoir Blindisde Tackles 9/0
I. Harinourdiquy Number 8 Tackles 9/1
Team Stats
Meters Ran 358
Tackles Missed 6 = 92.1% Success rate
Penalties Conceded 5
Scotland
G Morrison Center Tackles 9/0 Penalties Conceded 3
R Gray Lock Meters Ran 54 Defenders Beaten 4 Tackles 8/0
J Hamilton Lock Tackles 8/0
J Barclay Blindside Tackles 8/0
R Rennie Openside Tackles 13/0
D Denton Number 8 Meters Ran 41 Defenders Beaten 3 Tackles 7/0
Team Stats
Meters Ran 307
Tackles Missed 10 = 90.2% Success rate
Penalties Conceded 11
Italy
Masi Fullback Meters Ran 64
Canale Center Tackles 8/1
Sgarbi Center Tackles 10/2
McClean Wing Tackles 9/1 Turnovers 3
Ghiraldini Hooker Tackles 10/2
Cittadini Prop Tackles 11/0 Penalties conceded 1
Geldenhuys Lock Tackles 12/1 Penalties conceded 1 Turnovers 1
Van Zyl Lock Tackles 10/2
Zanni Blindside Tackles 9/0 Turnovers 1
S. Favaro Openside Tackles 10/0 Penalties Conceded 1
S. Parisse Number 8 Tackles 10/1
Team Stats
Meters Ran 165
Tackles Missed 19 = 88.0% Success rate
Penalties Conceded 13
I picked up on the highlights of the Stats. Respect has to go to Italy for the amount of tackles they made, sensational.
Wales
A. Cuthbert Wing Meters Run 124 Turnovers 2 Defenders Beaten 6
G. North Wing Meters Run 69 Defenders Beaten 4 Offloads 2
J. Davies Center Tackles 4/0
J. Roberts Center Meters Run 100 Tackles 5/0
D. Lydiate Blindside Tackles 9/0
J. Tuperic Openside Tackles 8/0
T. Faletau Number 8 Tackles 7/0 Turnovers 2 Meters Run 27
Team Stats
Missed tackles 2 = 96.8% Success rate
Meters Ran 525
Penalties Conceded 13
England
B. Foden Fullback 91 Meters ran
M. Tuilagi Center 80 Meters Ran
O. Farrell Flyhalf Tackles 9/0
L. Dickson S/Half Turnovers 4
D. Hartley Hooker Tackles 9/1
L. Parling Lock Tackles 11/1
C Robshaw Openside Tackles 13/1
B. Morgan Number 8 64 Meters Ran
Team Stats
Meters Ran 361
Tackles missed 13 = 88.2% Success rate
Penalties Conceded 11
Ireland
R. Kearney Fullback Meters Ran 127 Defenders Beaten 4 Turnovers 2
K. Earls Centre Tackles 11/2 Clean Breaks 2
S. Ferris Blindside Tackles 18/0
P. O'Mahony Openside Tackles 9/1 Penalties Conceeded 3
J Heaslip Number 8 Tackles 7/0
Team Stats
Meters Ran 343
Tackles Missed 10 = 90.3% Success rate
Penalties Conceded 14
France
C. Poitrenaud Fullback/Wing Meters Ran 73 Turnovers 2
A. Rougerie Centre Meters Ran 54
W Fofana Centre Meters Ran 46 Defenders Beaten 3 Turnovers 3
J. Malzieu Wing Meters Ran 51 Offloads 4 Turnovers 4
T. Dausitoir Blindisde Tackles 9/0
I. Harinourdiquy Number 8 Tackles 9/1
Team Stats
Meters Ran 358
Tackles Missed 6 = 92.1% Success rate
Penalties Conceded 5
Scotland
G Morrison Center Tackles 9/0 Penalties Conceded 3
R Gray Lock Meters Ran 54 Defenders Beaten 4 Tackles 8/0
J Hamilton Lock Tackles 8/0
J Barclay Blindside Tackles 8/0
R Rennie Openside Tackles 13/0
D Denton Number 8 Meters Ran 41 Defenders Beaten 3 Tackles 7/0
Team Stats
Meters Ran 307
Tackles Missed 10 = 90.2% Success rate
Penalties Conceded 11
Italy
Masi Fullback Meters Ran 64
Canale Center Tackles 8/1
Sgarbi Center Tackles 10/2
McClean Wing Tackles 9/1 Turnovers 3
Ghiraldini Hooker Tackles 10/2
Cittadini Prop Tackles 11/0 Penalties conceded 1
Geldenhuys Lock Tackles 12/1 Penalties conceded 1 Turnovers 1
Van Zyl Lock Tackles 10/2
Zanni Blindside Tackles 9/0 Turnovers 1
S. Favaro Openside Tackles 10/0 Penalties Conceded 1
S. Parisse Number 8 Tackles 10/1
Team Stats
Meters Ran 165
Tackles Missed 19 = 88.0% Success rate
Penalties Conceded 13
Last edited by maestegmafia on Mon 12 Mar 2012, 9:08 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : added positions)
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