Just how good can this springbok team become?

I thought for a little light entertainment, I would shift the focus of those nervous Welsh, Irish, English and Scottish supporters to a subject outside of the Six Nations, even if it is for only a little while.

We all know South africa over the last four years have not been at their best, PDV held on to players he shouldn't have, he took too long to expose new players and did it mainly when under pressure of injuries or extreme stand out performances by individuals.

But the coast is clear, at least for a little while, a new coach in Heyneke Meyer has been appointed. In my view pretty similar thinker as Jake White. In all honesty he was not my first choice coach, I would have preferred Nick Mallet. but he has been appointed and deserves my attention at least for long enough to prove he can and will change the necessary things to enable the Springboks to progress to a point where they can once again take their place at the top of the pecking order. Is it possible? Well if you consider that we were top of the pile before for sustained periods and that our player depth have always been there, it isn't impossible. We still have our challenges, the politicians says there is no quota system, but then iin the same sentence they demand transformation. How far they want this to go, I don't know, but until then I choose to be positive.

Lets look at those players of the PDV era who in my opinion should still be in the running.

1. Beast Matwarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du PLessis
4. ----
5. Andries Bekker
6. Heinrich Brussow
7. Juan Smith
8. ----
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Patrick Lambie
11. ----
12. Frans Steyn
13. ----
14. ----
15. ----

The positions filled are players I have no issue with being inked into the squad. There are some names missing, but there are reasons for them I will now explain.

Lock - Our number 4 position is wide open, there are a few candidates, Juandre Kruger although naturally a 5. De Kock steenkamp, Ryno Elstad.

Eghthman - There are variuos options available here, Schalk Burger has turned his career around since the introduction of Heinrich Brussow, he has become more of a running back rower with keen ability to offload, and would be my first choice at 8, Willem Alberts, Jean Deysel, Nick Koster, Joshua Strauss and a fair few others can complete the back row and fill the bench, I think the biggest challenge for Meyer here will be to select the right combinations as there is a plethora of players who put their hands up.

Left wing - JP Pietersen is currently the shoe in at left wing, but he seems to have lost the edge on pace and whether it is on the insistence of Heyneke Meyer, John Plumtree has been playing him at 13, which in the absence of Jaque fourie could be a major issue for us. So far he has looked good, being a strong runner, but looking for the offload as well. My pick for left wing will be Lwasi Mvovo, this young man is a devastating runner, needs to work a little on his positional play, but otherwise my first choice. Habana is not gone yet, but he has also been tried at centre, so perhaps getting more ball will put a new lease on life for him as well.

Outside centre - Jaque fourie is the first choice, but who knows about hiis availability? Looking at Bryan Habana and JP Pietersen, it might just wokr, and I for one are looking forward to see what they cna do there.

Right wing - Well you have to look at some of the new guys coming through, there is Michael Killian, Bjorn Basson, Gio aplon and of course JP Pietersen himself.

Full back - Riaan Viljoen, Morne Steyn and promising young Jaco Taute are the ones I would look at.

There are of course those that should be considered second choice in positions as well, such as Live wire prop Coenie Oosthuizen, Werne Kruger at tighthead, Dewald Duvenhage at Half back, Johann Sadie at centre and a few more I can't think of right now.

The big qustion is what is Heyneke Meyer's intentions? There are already rumours that he has spoken to Victor Matfield (forwards coach or player), Fourie du Preez (They have an extremely close relationship), will his loyalties to his Bulls team he has built and subsequently won 3 super 14 trophies with his core (albeit the last two under Frans Ludeke). Or will he change the way the Springboks play and use exciting talent like Hougaard and Lambie as his play makers?

He talks a promising game, he says his focus is on winning every test (an absolute revelation), on television during the Masterplan New Zelaand programs during the RWC he often spoke intelligently about altering game plans, so he definitely has strengths, he knows how to build a squad, he has the technical know how, but ultimately will he go down the route of every previous Provincial coach that became springbok coach, making loyalty to his provincial players his weakness?

So what say ye, take a break from the Six Nations. expand your world, and partake in the theory of Green and Gold.

Our fixtures for the year.
Three test series vs England
The rugby championship.
Autumn internationals - Scotland and England.

They will appear a good side until they play Ireland where you will return with your tails between your legs

So you say you are at least going to unleash those Irish boys in SA at some point in the near future?

Or will it still be at home, where you stand a chance at sea level.

One day you'll actually play them away and we'll have a better side how much better Ireland are.

I've always liked the Boks so I'd like you to do well. Hopefully the catalyst will be losing the summer (your winter) English tour

Smartarsh

HammerofThunor wrote:One day you'll actually play them away and we'll have a better side how much better Ireland are.

I've always liked the Boks so I'd like you to do well. Hopefully the catalyst will be losing the summer (your winter) English tour

well it will be an interesting tour for both teams, Meyer will be in charge of his first three test, maybe england will stick to Lancaster who would have had the six Nations to get to know his players and combinations. There is of course the little matter of 7 wins on the trot which I am sure the boks will like to extend.

But as they say new brooms sweep clean, you are just never sure, how clean and effective until you have assessed it.

One win would be absolutely massive for us. Not sure if we'll manage it or not but I hope we do alright. Our last trip to SA was a joke (2007). 3 of the top clubs were in competitions and their was a stomach bug ripping though the camp. Some of guys capped during that are quite funny.

Any idea of the tour structure? I know there are midweek games, any idea how many and when?

I haven't seen anything about the midweek games yet, I am sure it will be announced closer to the times.

No idea how good you can become- but what i do know about SH teams is that they rarely fall from grace,you lot maintain a certain amount of quality throughout the years. england are up and down like a yoyo(i am talking about rugby and cricket)

I heard SA are looking at welsh players with SA grand parents...

A lot of names i've never heard there biltong. All the 'inked in' players are quality, I really like the look of the new boys at half back.

In the second row it has to be juandre kruger for me, I am familiar with him from his time at northampton (kept lawes out of the second row) i believe i saw him for the bulls recently he got motm and i think he is world class.

Jean deysel has looked good when i have seen him and who is the full back at the cheetahs?

slartibartfast wrote:I heard SA are looking at welsh players with SA grand parents...

Who, players like Georg v/d Noord?

Hougaard and Lambie is a hinge that will last you for years.

Habana is a solid unit with fast feet and very good hands and I think that he would do well as centre, principally because Aplon has the razzle dazzle that you need but (like Lee Jones for Scotland) has to be kept out of the midfield stuff on Bryan's wing slot because he's way too small to take contact much. If Fourie gets injured, there isn't another obvious candidate of the same quality.

I think that the other wing has to be Pieterson - I've always thought that he looks gangling and uncomfortable on the ball but you cannot argue with his scoring record.

How old is Juan Smith now?

slartibartfast wrote:I heard SA are looking at welsh players with SA grand parents...

A sense of humour, I like it.

Matt, the Cheetah Fullback is Hennie Danniler.

George Juan smith is still struggling with his achilles injury, there were talks that he might go on the Cheetah tour down under, but I am not sure wha the state is, he hasn't played serious rugby now for quite some time. Which isn't a bad thing either, once fully recovered I believe it will extend his career.

Out of interest Biltong, how come Spies wasn't mentioned at 8? I don't follow Super 15 greatly, so has his form really dipped?

To me he isn't an 8, he is too upright in his running style to be effective as a forward, close quarter running is not only physical attrirbutes, but also the physics of two objects running into each other.

When you are close quarters the first thing you learn is to get you stance down so that you can drive and people can't get underneath you. He still doesn't do that.

Look at the difference between him and willem alberts, Alberts has his momentum going forward in the tackle, Spies' momentum goes up, that is why he is driven back in the contact situation.

I have said for some time now I beleive he will be better suited to back line play, in specific Centre. He was a wing at school, so he does have the speed, and I think no coach has ever taught him the correct technique of going into conatct situaion where you have not been able to build a head of steam.

He is also quite often running at a diagonal angle from around the ruck or scrum and once again basic physics will teach you that you must hit your opponent head on, not sideways as they have forward momentum and you don't.

I just don't think he has the technique.

Sorry for the long explanation.

Haha, don't apologise, it was a good read!

Interesting that you mentioned centre, and I had no idea about his younger days- would hate to see him line up in the backs!

Alberts I think, is a fantastic talent. His power in contact is exceptional, and is an intimidating force.

Yes, he is very good at getting go forward ball, i would like him to offload more, but then he hasn't really settled with the springboks, so I am sure once he is a regular fixture and gets used to his support runners he will be phenominal.

biltongbek wrote:So you say you are at least going to unleash those Irish boys in SA at some point in the near future?

Or will it still be at home, where you stand a chance at sea level.

England will need a few 8 options on the summer tour, Morgan won't even finish the first half at altitude.

biltongbek wrote:So you say you are at least going to unleash those Irish boys in SA at some point in the near future?

Or will it still be at home, where you stand a chance at sea level.

Sure its handier to play in Ireland... half your side live in Belfast sure.......

roddersm wrote:

biltongbek wrote:So you say you are at least going to unleash those Irish boys in SA at some point in the near future?

Or will it still be at home, where you stand a chance at sea level.

Sure its handier to play in Ireland... half your side live in Belfast sure.......

Only a few outcasts mate, only a few.

biltongbek wrote:

roddersm wrote:

biltongbek wrote:So you say you are at least going to unleash those Irish boys in SA at some point in the near future?

Or will it still be at home, where you stand a chance at sea level.

Sure its handier to play in Ireland... half your side live in Belfast sure.......

Only a few outcasts mate, only a few.

Glad to hear it Biltong, we're happy to keep them ......... and their offspring.....

Hi ,Biltong with your new powers I expect to be banned for saying this but here goes.You are playing down the Boks achievements under PDV[or otherwise],2008 a win versus the AllBlacks at the House of Pain in Dunedin .A very rare achievement].Lions win 2009,3 wins versus the AllBlacks 2009 and a 3Ns win.2010 you had crippling injuries,2011 the usual RWC formula sacrifice the 3Ns for the RWC.[The precedent set by Jake White]
PDV did`nt get the easier road Jake White did in his RWC,that is NOT knocking
The BOKS for there deserved 2007 win.
You are currently presumeably in rebuilding mode,jury is out on whether new Coach will pick overseas players he seems keen.
You have more strength in depth than most countries,of all the nations i respect the Boks most.For there role as second best in the World behind my beloved All Blacks.
People can blame PDV for not adapting to new rulings but his Super Coaches most notably the Bulls did`nt adapt either.
Of the players you mention,apart from his Goal kicking Morne Steyn is on recent history not a test 10 or 15.
The Beast is a great ball carrier,but his primary role to prop a scrum?you must have better.Bismarck Du Plessis is the best on the block,his brother ?you must have better props.
Number 8 ,Alberts or Schalk Burger when fit,Juan Smith fit and in form Automatic choice.Broussow ok ,but seems very injury prone.Pietersen yes,Habana has been out of sorts for several years it seems.
It will be good to have properly fought out SH comp this year,because I suspect there will be new faces.Especially among the All Blacks on paper the pack,Boric or Donnelly for Thorn.Thomson for Kaino at 6 [assuming he is`nt fit].
Maybe a new exciting scrum half,Dan the man back at 10,Cory jane,Smith,Nonu, Guildford or Gear and Isreal Dagg.
Given SBW is almost certainly back to League next year,Kahui,Ranger,or Fruen need a run backing up Smith/Nonu.Back up 10 seems to be wide open now to early to judge Slade.But Anscombe and Crudon not to mention Bleyen dahl are all going well.
Now repeat after me "PDV WAS A GOOD BOK COACH" I dare you!!!

Two Sa's playing very well are Botha and Barritt...

nice article biltong.

I think it can become very good now that there is a different view on selection and tactics at the top. Despite the ref controversy in the RWC I personally think the seeds were sown a couple of years before when PDV was appointed.

So I expect you to do better than a quarter final next time Going to be interesting to see how you go against Hansens All Blacks as he needs to rebuild the team as well. Aus for the trinations this year I think, SA second with NZ sufferring from the post world cup hangover from hell.

I like Pietersen at outside centre He is already making an impact with the Sharks, despite being fairly new to the position. The combination of Frans Steyn and him would be immense.

I also like Lambie at flyhalf, except he needs to work on his kicking - being a SHarks fan, I know: we would've won 3 out of 3 if he could kick better. That said, I would like to see a half-back pairing of Hougaard/Lambie being given time to mature. Seing as they're both young, it could do us very well in the future.

I've often thought that Burger would make a good 8, even before Brussow came along and moved him from 6. As an England fan I wouldn't fancy the breakdown battle against Brussow, Smith & Berger. The only thing missing would be a big bruising ball carrying option there but I would just select a second row who can carry well into contact, with someone like Alberts on the bench. For a forward Berger has developed great distribution - his flat passing when standing at first receiver for the Stromers is better than Moyne Steyn's for the Boks!

biltongbek - do you really think Meyer will play Lambie at 10 and Steyn at 15 or will it be the other way around? (I guess they can always swap during a game)

South Africa, like Ireland need to adopt a slightly more attacking mindset. Both sides were top of their hemisphere (and RSA were top of the world) in 2009, but neither side has thrived since the tackle interpretations changed. Not because they don't have the talent, but because they haven't adapted to the new game as well as others in my opinion. And South Africa, like Ireland have been to conservative in selections over the last few years.

To answer the question, how good can the Springboks become? Unlike Ireland, I think if any South African team is gets selections right and gameplan right and plays to their optimum, they can mix it with the All Blacks at the top of the world game.

emack2 wrote:Hi ,Biltong with your new powers I expect to be banned for saying this but here goes.You are playing down the Boks achievements under PDV[or otherwise],2008 a win versus the AllBlacks at the House of Pain in Dunedin .A very rare achievement].Lions win 2009,3 wins versus the AllBlacks 2009 and a 3Ns win.

People can blame PDV for not adapting to new rulings but his Super Coaches most notably the Bulls did`nt adapt either.

Of the players you mention,apart from his Goal kicking Morne Steyn is on recent history not a test 10 or 15.

Now repeat after me "PDV WAS A GOOD BOK COACH" I dare you!!!

Hi alan, mate my "powers" and me being a poster is two seperate issues, you may always say what you want, and then I can vehemently diasagree.

You first point about PDV and his success, even during the Lions series and the Tri Nations in 2009, I saw glaring weaknesses which I pointed out in 2009, I even predicted a poor aumtumn series that year, I am very critical of the sprignboks as a norm, and very seldom will compiment them on just winning if they didn't convince.

You keep forgetting and I reminded you of this before, Heyneke Meyer was not the Bulls coach when the laws changed after 2009. Frans Ludeke was.

Heyneke Meyer WILL play Morne Steyn, I have no doubt about that, therefor I am hoping he is objective enough to play Lambie.

I will give you this, PDV was a good man manager, but not an astute coach.

B91212 wrote:I've often thought that Burger would make a good 8, even before Brussow came along and moved him from 6. As an England fan I wouldn't fancy the breakdown battle against Brussow, Smith & Berger. The only thing missing would be a big bruising ball carrying option there but I would just select a second row who can carry well into contact, with someone like Alberts on the bench. For a forward Berger has developed great distribution - his flat passing when standing at first receiver for the Stromers is better than Moyne Steyn's for the Boks!

biltongbek - do you really think Meyer will play Lambie at 10 and Steyn at 15 or will it be the other way around? (I guess they can always swap during a game)

Mate I hope so.

Look at this team.

1.Beast/Conie Oosthuizen
2.Bismarck
3.Jannie du Plessis
4.Juandre Kruger
5.Andries Bekker
6.Heinrich Brussow/Jean deysel
7.Juan smith/Willem Alberts
8.Schalk Burger
9.Francois Hougaard
10.Patrick Lambie
11.Lwasi Mvovo
12.Frans Steyn
13.JP Pietersen
14.Bryan Habana
15.Jaco Taute/Morne Steyn

If Jaque Fourie is available, I will put him at 13 and JP at 11.

that is a mobile pack, perhaps a little average at scrumtime, excelllent backrow, a young and exciting playmaking pair at 9 and 10. very good midfield, decent back three.

Plenty of kickers, if Jaco Taute could be at 15, we will have an attacking 15 for the first time in a long while.

Feckless Rogue wrote:South Africa, like Ireland need to adopt a slightly more attacking mindset.

Feckless I absolutely agree.

Allblacks in terminal decline?that maybe wishful thinking,of the first choice side
Thorn and Muliana are the only casualties.Long term they may have problems BUT the 4Ns.Props- Woodcock,Crockett,Brothers Grimm
Hookers-Mealamu,Hore,Flynn
Locks-Whitelock,Williams,Boric,Donnelly
Looseies-Read ,McCaw,Kaino,Thomson,Vito,Todd?
Scrum Halves-Weepu,Ellis,plus the two Youngsters
Fly Halves- Carter,Slade,Crudon ,Anscombe
Wings-Cory Jane,Guildford,Gear,Maitland,
Full backs -Isreal Dagg,A.N.OTHER
Centres-Nonu,Conrad Smith,Kahui,Rene Ranger,Fruen
Obviously a pitifully weak team in terminal decline with no chance of a 4Ns or any other win.You Wish?

Nice one Biltong, will be watching with interest as the year goes along.
Too early to put out a NZ one because after the first 3 rounds of sxv we have all sorts of players putting their hands up and it looks as though our usual 3 middle of the road teams Chiefs , Canes and the Hurricanes are taking the gloss of the 2 top sides at the moment.

Half back especially looks to be improving with Aaron Smith, Kerr-Barlow and the under 20's 10's coming through- Barrett, Anscombe and Tyler B..plenty of back up for Carter and Cruden next few years.

Its the newer players I like to follow as they're the future and add more interest in watching them develop (or not!)

Exciting times ahead and from now till November its pretty much full on...

Taylorman, I would think the Half back position is really your only worry isn't it.

There has never been a lack of depth in most positions in New Zealand, which suprises me that you seem to struggle with quality at 9.

What do you think it is the reason for that, it isn't that they are bad, they just don't fit the bill for world class.

The last world class half back you had was Marshall wasn't it?

Biltong
And when you go through a period of drought in one position especially a skill based position like half back,it is often followed about 10 - 15 years later in a drought of competent coaches in that position.
At the moment too many coaches in NZs school and junior levels are lazy as they dont have to teach the skills for positions like half backs because they can still win games by just playing the biggest fastest kids,and the little guys who traditionally are your future halfbacks get smashed,and by the time they reach their mid teens leave rugby and go skateboarding.

Depends really does`nt it? Byron Kelleher was considered the best in Europe only last year.Brendon Leonard in2007 looked the goods,continous injuries have blunted him.Jimmy Cowan was/is the best Defensive half back in World rugby.Weepu if you can keep him of the pies is more than adequate at 9 or 10,Mathewson is capable.Ellis one of the most improved in Nz Rugby.
You don`t need to have a great player in every position to be a great team,one could argue the Boks haven`t had a great 10 .For a number of years and often
the tactics were dominated by the no.9.Does`nt mean you have`nt had a great team,how many players for example.Have tried to take over from Wilkinson or Carter for example.
Depends what you mean as a Great Scrum half Dave Loveridge was the last,Graham Bachop,and David Kirk next then Marshall.Des Connor was THE
best in an AllBlack shirt ,HE was an Aussie.Chris Laidlaw during his
brief reign was the Worlds best.Sid Going was good except for his passing.

For me if SA wants to return to the top they have to play to their strengths... they will never generate a free running NZ style game which can compete with NZ... its not in their mentality.
They should however develop a side behind a powerful front 5, big runners in midfield and a strong kicking game. May not be the prettiest rugby but it will be winning rugby.

Its early days but I like the look of Etzebeth at 4... a real Bakkies re-generated. and Kitsoff looks a very decent loosehead at only 20... big in the scrum and mobile (compared to Beast who isn't a scrummager).
Personally I'm not a fan of Bekker, he doesn't do the basics good enough... it doesn't matter if you're a fancy runner, SA need a dominant lock not one who showboats on the wing.

I also am a big fan of Goosen at 10.... or perhaps fullback. Again a really young guy but he has loads of potential.

What about the following lineup

Kitsoff
Bismaarck
Jannie
Etzebeth
Kruger
Alberts
Brussow
Burger (c)
Hougaard
Goosen
Basson
Lambie
Fioure
Aplon
Frans. Steyn

I reckon that would be a very decent side going into the 2015 world cup.

For me if SA wants to return to the top they have to play to their strengths... they will never generate a free running NZ style game which can compete with NZ... its not in their mentality.

I would have agreed if you said Australia, New Zealand controls ball and territory, they recycle quick ball and gets it to runners in space, either via offload or drawing the defenders and having a pass to a runner in space or at an angle.

SA have the players to control ball, and territory, we can recucle quick ball. We don't have the attacking flyhalf that stands flat enough or can get players into space. However with hougaard and Lambie, we can one up the All Blacks, they don't have a nine that can be as effective to snipe through, evade tacklers and offload. we may not run the greatest angles, but we can draw the defender and offload or pass to the support runner. we may need to go a few more phases than the all Blacks, but with patience can effect the same result.


They should however develop a side behind a powerful front 5, big runners in midfield and a strong kicking game. May not be the prettiest rugby but it will be winning rugby.

Agree on a powerful front five, we have extreme depth in the back row, any one of a few different combinations will add to a very mobile back three, we will always have a strong kicking game, however with Lambie we will have more attacking kicks into space, rather than bombs to chase.


Its early days but I like the look of Etzebeth at 4... a real Bakkies re-generated. and Kitsoff looks a very decent loosehead at only 20... big in the scrum and mobile (compared to Beast who isn't a scrummager).

Totally agree, juandre Kruger is the most promising, all round balanced game.

Personally I'm not a fan of Bekker, he doesn't do the basics good enough... it doesn't matter if you're a fancy runner, SA need a dominant lock not one who showboats on the wing.

Disagree with you completely, Bekker is supreme in the line out, physical in the breakdown and a very strong ball carrier with quite some pace for such a big man, he distibutes well, in fact read Matfields comments on Bekker, he believes Bekker have surpassed him in all aspects. Add to that he is a great defender as well.

I also am a big fan of Goosen at 10.... or perhaps fullback. Again a really young guy but he has loads of potential.

Yes he has promise, but currently you have Lambie, then Elton Jantjies will get his opportunities as he is also quite promising, even though quite small, remember the politicians want more non white players and Jantjies will be a shoo in by 2015, even if only as back up.

What about the following lineup

Kitsoff Far too soon, Coenie Oosthuizen will be the next.
Bismaarck Yes
Jannie Yes, I believe Werner Kruger will be his understudy
Etzebeth Too soon
Kruger Yes
Alberts Yes
Brussow Yes
Burger (c) Yes
Hougaard Yes
Goosen Nope, too soon, Lambie, but guaranteed he will pick Steyn
Basson Not convinced, poor defender
Lambie Yes, could be at 10 or 12
Fourie Yes, if available
Aplon Yes, very likely, but most likely JP Pietersen although I would like to see him at center
Frans Steyn Yes, but I would prefer either Jaco Taute attacking player, Riaan Viljoen decent attacker great boot, or Steyn with Lambie at 10.

The only problem with Hougaard is his service... he isn't a pure scrumhalf, he offers a lot around the side of the scrum in terms of attacking but lacks the primary functions that world class 9's have... an ability to open up the game to his backline. I often wonder whether or not he would be better suited to the wing.... in any other country he would probably play their rather than 9... but due to ACI strength in that position he will always find it difficult to compete for a starting berth there.

In terms of Etzebeth I reckon like Lawes and Gray in the UK.. if they're good enough put them in... and certainly by 2015 I reckon he'll be right in the mix... the same with Kitsoff.

The reason why I mentioned him is because at the moment I see Prop as a bit of a weakness (at least in terms of lacking the high quality of the past). I'm not so convinced about Kruger and Greyling... they have looked pretty average this year and were beaten up by the Blues last weekend. Kitsoff is only 20 and already looks comfortable with SR and has come away from big contests with his pride intact... for someone in their 1st season thats a good marker and something he can build on.

Its strange that the bokke suffered for so long from real 10s... since 92 they've hardly had 1 who could do everything... either they ran or they kicked but never both. Now they have Lambie, Goosen & Jantjies... and Morne will be in the mix also with Meyer.

Jantjies is just too small for test rugby... even in Jo'burg he can hardly kick the ball from the attacking 10metre line... something most club players should be able to do. Goosen is a big lad and has all the skills already... he and Lambie are surely the future of the boks at 10 & 12.

I'm a big fan of Frans Steyn however... I personally think he is most talented SA back of his generation... he boot is such a weapon both from the hand and on the tee that teams always struggle when he is playing 15. He has pace (for a pie boy ) and can play frst receiver. Viljoen in my mind is too old... a fullback shouldn't be debuting aged 29.

Morne needs a big pack behind him.. Lambie & Goosen are just as good with the boot, offer more in attack and defence. Meyer is not stupid... as much as he may love him, he will start playing him yes, but without the massive front 5 of the past to put him on the front foot he in my mind will struggle.

Its quite refreshing that SA have a lot of talent coming through though... 2 years ago we were wondering on certain positions... perhaps a genuine inside centre is all SA lacks from a future world class unit.

Evening FA, why you up so late?

Its certainly way past my bedtime! Probably the only time I can get on here these days without the missus stating her disapproval!

FA, go over to the scrumhalf thread and post a vote for old Joost please man, I am up against a host of nostalgic welsh supporters who weren't even born when Gareth edwards was playing.

Sorry dude but I had to go with Edwards... I mentioned that even the Cape Times last year introduced him as the greatest player of all time... thats player not scrumhalf. Quite a testimony wouldn't you agree.

Joost has been the best of the professional era though.... by quite a margin.

And to think you married a South african.

what was she thinking?

I wouldn't worry about my opinions on SA too much though.. too blinded by rage of continually having to face my skoenpa's smirk time and time and time again.

He must be old school then?

Got a vote from this Kiwi mate

I knew I could rely on you, thanks mate.

It will be an interesting time for the Boks. I really am looking forward to the first match with the Wallabies. There will be the Bryce element to that game I feel and Pocock might be targeted. Not saying Biltong he´ll have his head knocked off but he might well be buried at the bottom of a few more rucks.

Fran Steyn is crucial to turning this backline into something it could so easily have become before. I like the idea of a Burger running with the ball in hand at the back of the scrum giving service to the backs as well. I think there are so many ways to service the backline than what the Boks did under Puff Divvy. Fourie is one of the most underrated players and to be honest I can't see how he can make it into the team. If that proves to be the case then it´s a huge loss for SA. Along with F Steyn inside, they could´ve proved a real handful for any side. I hope I´m proved wrong. What to do with M Steyn is a big conundrum. You want the guy in the team because his goalkicking wins games. But Lambie has more attacking flair. You could change Lambie and Morne from fullback but how about on attack switching round the players and interchanging them to keep the opposition guessing?