Springbok team for Argentina this weekend.

15 Willie le Roux GWK Griquas 3
14 Bjorn Basson Vodacom Blue Bulls 9
13 JJ Engelbrecht Vodacom Blue Bulls 4
12 Jean de Villiers(c) DHL Western Province 87
11 Bryan Habana Toulon, France 86
10 Morné Steyn Stade Francais, France 45
9 Ruan Pienaar Ulster, N.Ireland 66
8 Duane Vermeulen DHL Western Province 7
7 Willem Alberts The Sharks 21
6 Francois Louw Bath, England 19
5 Juandré Kruger Racing Metro, France 11
4 Eben Etzebeth DHL Western Province 14
3 Jannie du Plessis The Sharks 45
2 Adriaan Strauss Toyota FS Cheetahs 24
1 Tendai Mtawarira The Sharks 44

Replacements
16 Bismarck du Plessis The Sharks 48
17 Gurthrö Steenkamp Toulouse, France 40
18 Coenie Oosthuizen Toyota FS Cheetahs 4
19 Flip van der Merwe Vodacom Blue Bulls 26
20 Siya Kolisi DHL Western Province 2
21 Fourie du Preez Suntory Sungoliath, Japan 62
22 Pat Lambie The Sharks 23
23 Jan Serfontein Vodacom Blue Bulls 3

I think it is a good squad, but I would have preferred to see, Lambie in place of Morne Steyn (for the future), Van Zyl or Pretorius in place of Pienaar (For the future).

It is a very physical pack this, not much speed though. Not that you need a lot of speed against Argentina, but how smart will they be at the breakdown?

Lots of pace in the backline though.

Agree that the key for this one will be how the South African pack secures quick ball. The SA backs could cause havoc, bags of pace and running ability, but the Argentina pack is nothing if not extremely streetwise, and I'm not sure how that backline would cope with slow and stodgy ball against more physical counterparts.

Surprised to see Kruger in the Second row...? Is that a good call Bill?

Brutal looking pack, wont give an inch. The Argies will love it.

Contemponi in as a vetran guiding hand for the Argies...!

Contepomi to captain Pumas in Castle Lager Rugby Championship
August 14, 2013
Veteran utility back Felipe Contepomi will captain the Pumas in the Rugby Championship clash against the Springboks in Soweto on Saturday.
Contepomi will lead Argentina in the No.12 jersey in place of regular captain Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, who has been ruled out with a calf injury.

The Pumas prepared for Saturday’s opening-round match by defeating the visiting New South Wales Barbarians 29-27 and 58-12 in a two-match series.

The Argentina team is:

15 Juan Martin Hernandez, 14 Gonzalo Camacho, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Felipe Contepomi (captain), 11 Juan Imhoff, 10 Nicolas Sanchez, 9 Martin Landajo

8 Leonardo Senatore, 7 Juan Martin Leguizamon, 6 Pablo Matera, 5 Patricio Albacete, 4 Manuel Carizza, 3 Matias Diaz, 2 Eusebio Guinazu, 1 Juan Figallo.

Replacements: 16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Nahuel Lobo, 18 Juan Pablo Orlandi, 19 Mariano Galarza, 20 Julio Farias Cabello, 21 Tomas Cubelli, 22 Santiago Fernandez, 23 Horacio Agulla

Albacete. A strong candidate for the other thread re: "world class" players.

Maes, problem is Pieter Steph du Toit is injured, and Arno Botha is injured, they would have been good line out options, Flip van de Merwe adds grunt, but is not the greatest line out exponent, so there is more than enough grunt, hence Kruger is there, but he should not be.

I am more concerned with Pienaar, Fourie du Preez and Steyn. None of them are our future, and Basson is a liability in defence.

Lets hope they have at least learnt to be smarter.

Biltong wrote:Maes, problem is Pieter Steph du Toit is injured, and Arno Botha is injured, they would have been good line out options, Flip van de Merwe adds grunt, but is not the greatest line out exponent, so there is more than enough grunt, hence Kruger is there, but he should not be.

I am more concerned with Pienaar, Fourie du Preez and Steyn. None of them are our future, and Basson is a liability in defence.

Lets hope they have at least learnt to be smarter.

Cheers Bill,

I wasn't sure what the background re injuries and form was... Kruger is a good lad, hopefully will take this opportunity and make something of it.

I think we can all relate to what your are concerned about with the elder players filling positions that need to promote younger less experienced lads.

Think that the two of us were discussing a similar matter regarding welsh selection in the AIs and 6N on another thread a while ago...???

In Pienaar's case though he has been a superb mentor for young Paul Marshall who has really looked superb when given the chance. Hopefully Pienaar can pass the "Bokke Battern" on too...???

Is this on TV on any station in Ireland/UK anyone know

Good team. Only real ? Is FDP on the bench, surely this is the perfect match to give a youngster a run out. If Pienaar is going so badly that he needs to be tugged off for Du Preez to come on then you have to question why he's there at all.

Exactly, that is a serious issue

brennomac wrote:Is this on TV on any station in Ireland/UK anyone know

It's on Sky Sports in the UK. 4pm ko. (Aus v NZ earlier at 11:05am).

I think this is going to be a tough game to be honest.

It has been very low profile in SA this week, not much coming out of the BOk camp.

GOod in one sense as it seems they are very focused on the job at hand. But still concerning because there doesn't seem to be too much promise of a more well rounded attacking plan.

And if Argentina manages to do a Strokosh on us this weekend I will do my nut.

Biltong wrote:I think this is going to be a tough game to be honest.

It has been very low profile in SA this week, not much coming out of the BOk camp.

GOod in one sense as it seems they are very focused on the job at hand. But still concerning because there doesn't seem to be too much promise of a more well rounded attacking plan.

And if Argentina manages to do a Strokosh on us this weekend I will do my nut.

 

Good to see Vermeulen back starting in what looks like a seriously threatening backrow. Front row also looks powerful, and I think SA will probaby get the nudge in the scrums.

As you say, it's a quick backline, so if the forwards lay the platform, the backs could have a decent run out. I guess a lot depends on which Argentina turn up. They've certainly got a good pack to compete, but whether they can for the entire match is the true question. Camacho on the wing will be one to look out for, as well as Hernandez at fullback, but I honestly don't see them causing SA too much worry.

Tough for the first 50 and then the SA meatgrinder will take effect and they'll pull away.

I thought we were going to have a quota for the players not playing in SA? There is 5 people in there that is now playing outside SA. Plus 2 more on the bench.

I am really starting to wonder if we are taking the right approach here. But I am sure Heineke knows more than me, but I am starting to feel a bit uneasy here. From super rugby it looks like we have enough talent in SA to fill the team.

This win at all cost approach will just delay getting the new blood in the team and thus shifting the problem for later.

FerN wrote:I thought we were going to have a quota for the players not playing in SA?  There is 5 people in there that is now playing outside SA.  Plus 2 more on the bench.

I am really starting to wonder if we are taking the right approach here.  But I am sure Heineke knows more than me, but I am starting to feel a bit uneasy here. From super rugby it looks like we have enough talent in SA to fill the team.

This win at all cost approach will just delay getting the new blood in the team and thus shifting the problem for later.

I feel the same Fern. The problem is only going to perpetuate itself by the time the new coach comes in after Meyer.

De Villiers started it by holding onto White's players, now Meyer is doing the same thing.

We need to realise the time we will have a player in the Springbok squad is going to become shorter, it will be rare to see a player play for the springboks for 10 years. As soon as these guys make a name for themselves they will get big money contracts from overseas.

And by selecting overseas players will only make it worse, if this position is held in a few years we will see a Bok team filled with overseas players.

NOw tat to me is rubbish. I know a lot of posters don't agree with me.

BUt I want to see the springbok team filled with guys I watch every weekend, not someone I haven't seen play all year.
Perhaps that is why I have this uneasy feeling about the BOks this year.

Really like the looks of the Argentinian backline - All first choice I think, and very solid players with some proven finishers.

Sanchez, Contempomi and Hernandez on the same pitch at last.

I thought the summer tests were Contepomi's last hurrah? He's having more goodbyes than Ickle Shane!

wales606 wrote:Really like the looks of the Argentinian backline - All first choice I think, and very solid players with some proven finishers.

Sanchez, Contempomi and Hernandez on the same pitch at last.

Agreed...! Though the Bok don't look too shabby either.

I see DeVilliers has come out against overseas picks. Whilst I don't disagree Im not sure it was the right call to say that stuff on the eve of the first match.

I would hope if we can secure Ruan to another deal he wouldn't be eligible

SARU has no choice but to ban overseas players from being selected, the Western Force have now also started targeting South African players, they will have 4 south Africans for next season.

The fact is selecting overseas players has a number of consequences.
1. What are you telling the domestic players? They are not good enough, they don't stand a chance no matter what form they are in, or they might as well go after the money themselves.
2. You are weakening our domestic rugby.
3. add quota's which is now back and how do you expect us to compete against the other teams in Super Rugby.
4. Where do or sponsors go if we fail to impress.

Ultimately rugby will suffer in SA because of it.

I say F them, if they want to leave, let them. You will never know if anyone else can be good enough if you don't give them a chance.

If we struggle for a year, then so be it.

I don't disagree with any of that biltong. I'm only suggesting it maybe wasn't the wisest thing to say the day before he plays along with these guys. Got to admire him for having the balls to say it mind you.

It might/should make some others think twice too.

I am sure, the manner in which it was conveyed was most likely done a bit more intelligent than what the article suggests.

The fact is someone has to make a stand, and if it hurts anyone's feeling, then tough cookie. You make your bed, you sleep in it.

Hmm, I can't see anything in the local news about PDivvy speaking out against the overseas players, only the quota thing. But that is probably the bigger story in our country? They didn't mention anything about the overseas players.

About the overseas players, I had a bit of a rethink on this one. Just 2 starters didn't play in SA this year, so I am willing to give HM a bit of slack. It is not like we didn't see Morne or Habana etc in Superrugby. And that would also be a hard knock for any team, he probably is going to phase the other players in through the year when he gets the chance.

Biltong wrote:I am sure, the manner in which it was conveyed was most likely done a bit more intelligent than what the article suggests.

The fact is someone has to make a stand, and if it hurts anyone's feeling, then tough cookie. You make your bed, you sleep in it.

I agree with all of the points you've made above Biltong. The only thing I would say is this: it's pretty poor form from JDV to speak out against overseas players. He's Captain of the team, should you really be alienating 5 members of your Test side the day before a crucial Test match? Further, it isn't the overseas players who've selected themselves for the match, that's been done by the coach. It's hardly their fault if they're selected.

Should they make themselves unavailable? Then surely it's a lose lose situation for them. They'd be damned in the press for refusing to play for their country.

Chjw131 wrote:

Biltong wrote:I am sure, the manner in which it was conveyed was most likely done a bit more intelligent than what the article suggests.

The fact is someone has to make a stand, and if it hurts anyone's feeling, then tough cookie. You make your bed, you sleep in it.

I agree with all of the points you've made above Biltong. The only thing I would say is this: it's pretty poor form from JDV to speak out against overseas players. He's Captain of the team, should you really be alienating 5 members of your Test side the day before a crucial Test match? Further, it isn't the overseas players who've selected themselves for the match, that's been done by the coach. It's hardly their fault if they're selected.

Should they make themselves unavailable? Then surely it's a lose lose situation for them. They'd be damned in the press for refusing to play for their country.

I am sure this would have been discussed in team meetings already and the message conveyed that this has to do with future selections.

I don't think there will be a knee jerk reaction by the players, the issue has been on the table for a while now, so yes, it could be seen as a wrong move on the eve of a test, but then again, we don't really know what has happened behind the scenes.

Nice to see Contepomi captain. What a hero.

Quite a few overseas players in the SA team.

Chjw131 wrote:

Biltong wrote:I am sure, the manner in which it was conveyed was most likely done a bit more intelligent than what the article suggests.

The fact is someone has to make a stand, and if it hurts anyone's feeling, then tough cookie. You make your bed, you sleep in it.

I agree with all of the points you've made above Biltong. The only thing I would say is this: it's pretty poor form from JDV to speak out against overseas players. He's Captain of the team, should you really be alienating 5 members of your Test side the day before a crucial Test match? Further, it isn't the overseas players who've selected themselves for the match, that's been done by the coach. It's hardly their fault if they're selected.

Should they make themselves unavailable? Then surely it's a lose lose situation for them. They'd be damned in the press for refusing to play for their country.

O, that DeVilliers. But that is also not in any of our headlines.

Jean de Villiers wrote:"For now, they're selected from abroad but going into the future I can't see that happening."

He said the policy could not be implemented immediately because so many Springbok players had left Super Rugby clubs in recent weeks that it would drastically weaken the team.

"You don't want to change the team going into the Rugby Championship and play essentially second stringers, to put it quite harshly," he said.

Doesn't look like it is an attack, that just something will have to change in the long run.

The summer tour showed that ARG have literally no dept in the squad at all. They need a profesional franchise quick.

The summer tour was about trying to develop depth in choice going forward for both England and the Pumas, don't think that'll bother them.

What might worry them is loosehead. The legendary Roncero has retired and his successor Ayerza has picked up a rib injury. Figallo has only 17 caps and Lobo is just a 2 cap 21 year old. Big games for them coming up.

This will be a good game, great to see a full Argentina side available for this... Very exciting stuff...

Hope no offence to our SA supporting mates but I think I'll be behind the Underdog Pumas...!

Lobbe missing is huge!!

Bok pack is huge

I always thought Figallo was a tighthead prop

Great disruptive work by the Bok at the Argie line out.

Albacete and Sanchez have both had knocks already.

Great buildup by Argentina forcing SA to concede a penalty at the breakdown.

Conteponi adds a penalty.

9-6 to the Bok 22 mins gone

TMO questioned on a poss penalty try to SA because Guinazu the Argie hooker interfered with a poss try scoring pass.

Awarded to SA.

We have seen that happen and not go punished.

Well done ref...!

Break away from a turnover inside their 22 by the Bok...!

Englbrecht scores under the posts

23-6 33mins gone

Has to be the most entertaining crowd I've ever seen at a rugby match.

Galted wrote:Has to be the most entertaining crowd I've ever seen at a rugby match.

The noise hasn't stopped...!

Awful by De Villiers, cost his side 7 pts trying to be more involved than necessary. SA putting this one to bed all the same, looking like a different side to last year.

Adriaan Strauss is everywhere!

Silly penalty to concede by Du Plesis when SA were on a great attack..

Le Roux makes such a difference to the backline, always looks like something can happen.

Galted wrote:Le Roux makes such a difference to the backline, always looks like something can happen.

Yes he looks very solid

Second half about to kick off

The maul is working well for SA, Straus dives over.

Has the law about tip tackles changed? Thought that would've been red but only yellow was mentioned and given.

How was that a yellow card? He placed the player safely, no bad intentions what so ever. I feel sorry for Argentina, they've had some terrible calls against them. The first yellow was obvious but that second one is a joke.