Leinster vs Ospreys match thread

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

First topic message reminder :

Hey all,

Thanks god club rugby is back (from an Irish perspective!) needed this.

Seems to be a lot happening Leinster's side of things, with BOD looking like he will come back into the team and the same being said for Cullen. Huge experience re-entering the team after youth has been keeping us more than just a float for a number of months. Very healthy to see. It will interesting to see where they slot in and (if they are on the bench as I imagine they will) who they will be paired with.

Thorn also looks set to make his Leinster debut giving the 3 players mentioned a run up of this game and the Munster derby in Thomond to the HCup 1/4 final.

From an Ospreys side of things, munster losing to Aironi a week back has given them a huge lifeline and they now have a chance to fight for 2nd place and a home semifinal which would prove invaluable I am sure. Bowe has decided he is leaving and there does seem to be an exodus of sorts coming from the Wlesh clubs who together have created a fantastic Grand slam winning team? Will anyone come back from that squad and play a part on Friday.

What are your score perdictions?
What team would you like to see?
If Ospreys were to win how big an impact could it have on the top 3?
Where can either team win it?

LEINSTER:

15: Isa Nacewa
14: David Kearney
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Fergus McFadden
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Ian Madigan
9: Isaac Boss

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Nathan White
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Brad Thorn
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Dominic Ryan
8: Leo Auva'a

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Jack McGrath
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Damian Browne
20: Kevin McLaughlin
21: John Cooney
22: Eoin O'Malley
23: Fionn Carr

OSPREYS:

15: Richard Fussell
14: Hanno Dirksen
13: Andrew Bishop
12: Ashley Beck
11: Eli Walker
10: Dan Biggar
9: Kahn Fotuali'i

1: Paul James
2: Richard Hibbard
3: Aaron Jarvis
4: Ryan Jones
5: Alun Wyn Jones CAPTAIN
6: Tom Smith
7: Justin Tipuric
8: George Stowers

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Scott Baldwin
17: Ryan Bevington
18: Adam Jones
19: Ian Evans
20: James King
21: Rhys Webb
22: Matthew Morgan
23: Tom Isaacs

As an aside: I have 1 southstand ticket to the game for sale. €22. PM if you're interested.

[dublin_dave]

defeat will keep us honest. ospreys deserved it on 2nd half performance.

we got a pasting at the breakdown and at the scrum. great to

schmidt out. 1 defeat in what is it 15 games simply unacceptable

[maestegmafia]

defeat will keep us honest. ospreys deserved it on 2nd half performance.

we got a pasting at the breakdown and at the scrum. great to

schmidt out. 1 defeat in what is it 15 games simply unacceptable

A lot can be learnt in defeat. Leinster still have the type of lead that guaranties a spot in the playoffs though, and credit to their efforts all season to them.

[Rory_Gallagher]

The irish scrum in general needs some serious work. We need tight-heads coming through the ranks, who will get specialist training their entire careers. A lot of focus has to be placed on them. My eye is on Adam Macklin for Ulster, and he has a good tight-head in Afoa to learn from. Hopefully there will be a lot of focus on his development. It is clear now that Mike Ross is Ireland's most vital player.

Also, are there any updates on Hagan?

[maestegmafia]

The irish scrum in general needs some serious work. We need tight-heads coming through the ranks, who will get specialist training their entire careers. A lot of focus has to be placed on them. My eye is on Adam Macklin for Ulster, and he has a good tight-head in Afoa to learn from. Hopefully there will be a lot of focus on his development. It is clear now that Mike Ross is Ireland's most vital player.

Also, are there any updates on Hagan?

I posted a thread a long time ago during the HEC about Irish provincial rugby's reliance on foreign players "Propping Up" their teams. I was shot down for my bogus calls.

This six nations proved Ireland don't have strength in the areas where their provinces buy in talent.

[Rava]

The irish scrum in general needs some serious work. We need tight-heads coming through the ranks, who will get specialist training their entire careers. A lot of focus has to be placed on them. My eye is on Adam Macklin for Ulster, and he has a good tight-head in Afoa to learn from. Hopefully there will be a lot of focus on his development. It is clear now that Mike Ross is Ireland's most vital player.

Also, are there any updates on Hagan?

I posted a thread a long time ago during the HEC about Irish provincial rugby's reliance on foreign players "Propping Up" their teams. I was shot down for my bogus calls.

This six nations proved Ireland don't have strength in the areas where their provinces buy in talent.

And that has rightly been recognised by the IRFU in the directive released earlier, although there is a need for some fine tuning.

[maestegmafia]

What was the directive, I may have missed reading that?

[kunu]

basically prevents leinster from re-signing any current foreign players like nacewa, and there must be only 1 foreign player per position amongst all the provinces put together, and each province is allowed a max of 5 foreign players, with 1 of them being a potential irish player through residence. Its complete crap in my opinion. First of all it means if each province wants to buy a centre, they will have to flip a coin to see who gets it! it takes away from the fact that they are seperate entities. Also I'm pretty sure its illegal, as it is discriminating against foreign employment in the case of preventing contract renewal. We are basically kicking isa nacewa out of the country, even though his kids have grown up here.

[maestegmafia]

basically prevents leinster from re-signing any current foreign players like nacewa, and there must be only 1 foreign player per position amongst all the provinces put together, and each province is allowed a max of 5 foreign players, with 1 of them being a potential irish player through residence. Its complete crap in my opinion. First of all it means if each province wants to buy a centre, they will have to flip a coin to see who gets it! it takes away from the fact that they are seperate entities. Also I'm pretty sure its illegal, as it is discriminating against foreign employment in the case of preventing contract renewal. We are basically kicking isa nacewa out of the country, even though his kids have grown up here.

It sounds like a positive move for Irish rugby at the immediate detriment of the provinces, though in a few years will benefit both.

Similar to the initiatives introduced by the WRU a few years ago.

[kunu]

true yea, but they have over stepped the mark. i dont think heaslip would have become the player he is had he not played alongside elsom for example, foreign players can be a very good thing! something needs to be done, but the irfu have gone a step too far. 14 of leinster's starting xv are irish qualified, the problem isnt as severe as the measures. dont think the they will ever been taken into effect. need to be adjusted a huge amount

[gowales]

Very much a knee jerk reaction by the IRFU IMO

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

true yea, but they have over stepped the mark. i dont think heaslip would have become the player he is had he not played alongside elsom for example, foreign players can be a very good thing! something needs to be done, but the irfu have gone a step too far. 14 of leinster's starting xv are irish qualified, the problem isnt as severe as the measures. dont think the they will ever been taken into effect. need to be adjusted a huge amount

The problem is larger in Ulster and Munster though and everyone needs to be treated equally in a law like that

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I think our scrum if anything was dominating until White went off that was a turning point for sure.

Also I felt our back 3 were poorer than they have been in quite a while. Luke had a bad game I think and could do with a try, to get himself together as he was around Christmas.

Most importantly I thought McFadden was pretty damn good. Darcy can stay away from our 23 now please!

[Rory_Gallagher]

I think Fitzgerald would be so much better suited more infield (13). He doesn't look great when he isn't involved, and seems to grow more in confidence as a game goes on, and will usually come infield for more action. Like that little break he made, I think he could do that much more at 13. I feel he is the replacement for BOD for both Leinster and Ireland honestly. And this is coming from an Ulster fan who would love to see Cave/Spence feature at 13 for Ireland.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I still have big hope for EOM myself. I think Fitzgerald would benefit from getting the ball early in the game though. If he said to himself within the first 5 minutes of every game I will put myself in at first or second receiver I think he'd do better every game

[Rory_Gallagher]

EOM is good, but I think Fitzgerald is a more talented player. I just don't think the wing suits him.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

He was playing very well on the wing in and around Christmas time though you'd have to say.

[Rava]

What was the directive, I may have missed reading that?

Maesteg, if you have the stomach for it you can read about it here. I have to warn you though there are over 600 posts

https://www.606v2.com/t20683-changes-to-provincial-teams-player-qualifications

Can't blame us Irish for not discussing a topic properly though

[kunu]

our back row were v disappointing i thought, only ryan's second game or so since october so i suppose its fair enough. for everyone to be treated equally i think the irfu will have to scrap the part involving not offering foreign players new contracts. Nacewa will be able to apply for irish citizenship soon enough, and could really take on the irfu then! Frankie sheehan had some rare words of wisdom the other day on the telly, said young props should be encouraged to learn their trade abroad if they aren't getting game time. Mike ross was the product of harlequins, and Ireland are traditionally not great scrummagers. why not train with the best , and learn from em - rather than introducing measures that could really put a spanner in the workings of the irish club game

[kunu]

fitzy is doing my head in. he's too mentally fragile. When things start going badly for him, he is a comedy of errors, can hardly stand up half the time. When things are going his way, he's brilliant. Would prefer him to o malley however, better player for sure. I dont think he's got the head to make a good centre though, he completely loses sync with his teammates sometimes

[The Great Aukster]

Frankie sheehan had some rare words of wisdom the other day on the telly, said young props should be encouraged to learn their trade abroad if they aren't getting game time. Mike ross was the product of harlequins, and Ireland are traditionally not great scrummagers. why not train with the best , and learn from em - rather than introducing measures that could really put a spanner in the workings of the irish club game

Maybe Frankie has been reading my posts on 606! Props won't develop in Ireland below HEC level because there is little to no emphasis put on the scrum. Red Stag mentioned that the u19 scrum variations the same for all countries, but that doesn't mean they're uncontested or that some development can happen there - except that particularly in Ireland the referees seem more concerned about erring on the side of getting the game going again rather than letting a true contest happen there.

The PRO12 countries haven't much interest in winning games from the set-piece, although Treviso this year are doing their level best to gain an edge up front and it's working to an extent. Maybe the emphasis in the PRO12 will gradually move forward from the backrow but it's really only in the HEC that proper scrummaging props are worth their inflated contracts. Therefore the only real development of Test class props happen in the HEC, and that is far too few games to develop young guys quickly. Guys like Macklin, Hagan and Archer should move to AP teams where scrummaging is at a higher level for a couple of years, and be ready for HEC level rugby when they return.

[Shifty]

Welsh get away with one again

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/welsh-get-away-with-one-again-188253.html

Gotta love the Irish press, anyone would think they didn't have a bent home ref!

[Morgannwg]

"Tipuric’s yellow followed soon after but the drama was only getting started."

Poor article. I thought the English press were bad but this, Gatland the menepausal warthog and Swansea is a dump pre Grand Final means the Irish media now hold the title .

[Rava]

Unbelievable journalism.
Ospreys fully deserved the win.

[Morgannwg]

Good to see the fans don't condone that sort of drivel. They make the Western Mail look really good; although there isn't so much venom in their articles, they just live in cloud cuckoo land.

[The Great Aukster]

Irrespective of who deserved the win, what is wrong with the article? It is well enough written, but just from a different perspective to appeal to the Examiner's readers.

Factually there were two inconclusive TMO decisions that could have gone either way, and the last conversion was certainly questionable. If the ball comes off the top of a post then by simple geometry it couldn't have gone between the posts irrespective of where it ricochets thereafter.

[Cymroglan]

The Great Aukster

The ball hits the furthest upright and then goes between the posts.
It did not come off the top of the post it was further down than that.

[BlueNote]

It helped that the ball biffed the posts outwards. I didn't think the conversion was questionable, although the Os can count themselves as lucky Hibbard's try was given. Great performance by the Os - that goes for any win of any kind in Leinster. In European rugby you can't do much better than that.

[debaters1]

The law as written (i think) says that if it hits the tops of the post the kick is deemed successful.

As for the TMO decisions, they were both close, one went one way the other the other. To be fair, in the second one, the ball could be seen brushing a few blades of grass, or so the TMO adjudged.

As for the result over all, The Ospreys did come back very well, and probably deserved it on balance. Fair play to them.

[Morgannwg]

Irrespective of who deserved the win, what is wrong with the article? It is well enough written, but just from a different perspective to appeal to the Examiner's readers.

Jeez, and your serious

I hope you realise nobody will take you seriously from this day fourth...

[glamorganalun]

Morgannwg:

I suspect he is related to the ref, maybe his brother!

[maestegmafia]

Highlights n Scrum V now

[The Great Aukster]

I hope you realise nobody will take you seriously from this day fourth...

Wow I never realised anybody had ever taken me seriously before... hang on today is the 25th not the 4th so if today is the fourth in your calendar then I hate to tell you that you're actually three weeks behind the world. Spoiler alert - Wales won the Grand Slam. Don't worry I'll take you as seriously as everyone else.

[Morgannwg]

Yawn. Forth, Fourth, Lose, Loose.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

OK. I'm not saying that the Ospreys did not deserve their win. I am not saying Wales did not deserve their win in Lansdowne road.

But to lose both games by a point was hard to swallow. I don't blame anyone who relates the 2 events, where Welsh opposition comes to Dublin and wins games by a point in the last few minutes.

Doubly gutted at Leinster losing an unbeaten run that had just equalled the record for the league, and losing 2 games in a season in the league in the RDS for the first time........In History.

You have to go back to the 1st year of the Welsh regions to find Leinster losing more than one home game in a season in the league. Back in Donnybrook.

Anyway. Good luck to the Ospreys. Well done on the win.

Just an inch to the side with that kick would have been a better result for me.

[Mickado]

We've lost more games at home that we have away this season...

Well done O's, definitely the better team. Just the kick in the arse we need.

[eirebilly]

I can imagine that it is a hard pill to swollow for Leinster fans but this can actually be a good thing. Continually winning can breed complaicency so its good for the occasional loos to keep the feet on the ground.

[geoff998rugby]

true yea, but they have over stepped the mark. i dont think heaslip would have become the player he is had he not played alongside elsom for example, foreign players can be a very good thing! something needs to be done, but the irfu have gone a step too far. 14 of leinster's starting xv are irish qualified, the problem isnt as severe as the measures. dont think the they will ever been taken into effect. need to be adjusted a huge amount

The problem is larger in Ulster and Munster though and everyone needs to be treated equally in a law like that

Why is it largely a Munster and Ulster problem

We all have the same constraints on NIE.
For Ulster next year we are going into the season, at present, with only 3 NIQ players - Afoa, Muller and Pienaer and 1 Project - Payne.
Terblanche, Danielli and Wannenberg all leaving.

Will Leinster have any less.

Alos been mentioned that reducing the NIE numbers at TH would mean more Irishmen coming through who are International standard.
We been trying that at 10 and it hasn't work so far.

We have to improve the coaching and we have to stop cold shouldering anyone who plays outside Ireland.

[ScarletSpiderman]

We'd be lucky to get that mate. Im expecting a 8 try bonus point win to Leinster

Fixed that for you GO

SPIDER - appreciate your kind words but the O's are on a 1:2 slippery slope that's just had an oil tanker over turn on it

See i told you too keep the faith.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

We all have the same constraints on NIE.
For Ulster next year we are going into the season, at present, with only 3 NIQ players - Afoa, Muller and Pienaer and 1 Project - Payne.
Terblanche, Danielli and Wannenberg all leaving.

Will Leinster have any less.

We only have 1 (Isa, who will be in his last year) and zero project players.

White is going to Connacht. Sykes left a month ago. Brad Thorn is going back to Japan. Berquist is off to Biarritz (allegedly) Strauss is IQ in October. HVDM is out of contract at the end of the season.

Who knows how many we will have come September. I can see a project 2nd row coming in and possibly another year for Heinke if he's up for it.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

We'd be lucky to get that mate. Im expecting a 8 try bonus point win to Leinster

Fixed that for you GO

SPIDER - appreciate your kind words but the O's are on a 1:2 slippery slope that's just had an oil tanker over turn on it

See i told you too keep the faith.

I did say Ospreys by 5 But I was half joking.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

I can imagine that it is a hard pill to swollow for Leinster fans but this can actually be a good thing. Continually winning can breed complaicency so its good for the occasional loos to keep the feet on the ground.

That is the one positive that I am taking from it.
Would rather have beaten the Os than Munster or Ulster. (Though it's always nice to beat Munster)

[maestegmafia]

We all have the same constraints on NIE.
For Ulster next year we are going into the season, at present, with only 3 NIQ players - Afoa, Muller and Pienaer and 1 Project - Payne.
Terblanche, Danielli and Wannenberg all leaving.

Will Leinster have any less.

We only have 1 (Isa, who will be in his last year) and zero project players.

White is going to Connacht. Sykes left a month ago. Brad Thorn is going back to Japan. Berquist is off to Biarritz (allegedly) Strauss is IQ in October. HVDM is out of contract at the end of the season.

Who knows how many we will have come September. I can see a project 2nd row coming in and possibly another year for Heinke if he's up for it.

Project players do not solve long term issues. I think they are a very bad thing for teams to concentrate their efforts on. I know we all do it. But there should be more funds spent on hard working local academy players.

[eirebilly]

I can imagine that it is a hard pill to swollow for Leinster fans but this can actually be a good thing. Continually winning can breed complaicency so its good for the occasional loos to keep the feet on the ground.

That is the one positive that I am taking from it.
Would rather have beaten the Os than Munster or Ulster. (Though it's always nice to beat Munster)

You have to take positives

[Mickado]

It’s slightly worrying that we lost 2 tightheads in such quick succession! Maybe that will silence some who think that we should rid our teams of all foreign players and throw youngsters into the deep end of the scrum, that game will have done Jack McGrath confidence no favours.

[Guest]

confidence perhaps not, but he'll have learnt a hell of a lot from it.

Adam Jones has always said, experience is what makes you a better player, especially in the front row.

[SecretFly]

billy is right. In retrospect, I don't think Leinster would have liked counting down the clock to the end of season still building on an 'unbeaten' record. The pressures of the competitions and the opposition is enough. Better to have the record dumped and play what's in front of them - opposition and title prospects.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

We all have the same constraints on NIE.
For Ulster next year we are going into the season, at present, with only 3 NIQ players - Afoa, Muller and Pienaer and 1 Project - Payne.
Terblanche, Danielli and Wannenberg all leaving.

Will Leinster have any less.

We only have 1 (Isa, who will be in his last year) and zero project players.

White is going to Connacht. Sykes left a month ago. Brad Thorn is going back to Japan. Berquist is off to Biarritz (allegedly) Strauss is IQ in October. HVDM is out of contract at the end of the season.

Who knows how many we will have come September. I can see a project 2nd row coming in and possibly another year for Heinke if he's up for it.

Project players do not solve long term issues. I think they are a very bad thing for teams to concentrate their efforts on. I know we all do it. But there should be more funds spent on hard working local academy players.

Not sure you get the point of project players there. And the way their use has changed with the new IRFU rules.

[LemonyVodka5]

Hi all, and what a lovely day it is out there today too

A little request, anyone have a vid of Biggar's kick they can post a link up for?

Cheers all.

[geoff998rugby]

To expand on the fact that nIQ players does not, of itself, assume that players of the necessary quality will come through.

The only NIQ backrower, at the 3 senior provinces, this year is Wannenberg and he is an 8 - a position Ireland are fine in. That could be zero next year.
However inspite of all 7's being IQ we still struggle in that position.

There is only 1 NIQ 12, at the 3 senior provinces (Mafi), and that will be zero next year - we are still struggling in that position.

You can open the door but of itself it doesn't mean someone of the right quality will walk through it.

[geoff998rugby]

Thanks for the update re Leinster and NIQ - very interesting.

So to complete the circle what is the position at Munster next year - 2 props, Lualua, Howlett - any more ?

[Sponsored content]