Ireland Coaching Position; Open Poll And Discussion

by **Notch** Tue 20 Mar 2012, 8:30 pm

First topic message reminder :

Continuing on from the previous thread ( https://www.606v2.com/t26089-kidney-s-record-as-irish-coach ) what do you think should happen with the Ireland coaching position?

Vote and leave comments, suggestions of names, defences of the current set-up below. Don't just vote, tell us why.

Please let's try and have a constructive debate; input from posters of all nations encouraged.

by LordDowlais Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:08 pm

You are all mad, you sound bitter by the fact that Declan Kidney is not conquering all in front of him, if he had the Ireland squad when Eddie O'Sullivan had it, you would have had more Grand slams and six nations title's to add to your list. It is not his fault that your best players are getting on, the regime before him did not accomodate for the future, you must learn to now live without BOD, ROG, DOC, POC,Peter Stringer and let Declan Kidney build his own empire from scratch.

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:10 pm

LordDowlais wrote:You are all mad, you sound bitter by the fact that Declan Kidney is not conquering all in front of him, if he had the Ireland squad when Eddie O'Sullivan had it, you would have had more Grand slams and six nations title's to add to your list. It is not his fault that your best players are getting on, the regime before him did not accomodate for the future, you must learn to now live without BOD, ROG, DOC, POC,Peter Stringer and let Declan Kidney build his own empire from scratch.

It is his fault when he continues to pick these players that are out of form and getting on though isnt it?

by Sin é Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:16 pm

Mickado wrote:
red_stag wrote:ASLS,

He isn't lazy. To be honest thats just being silly.

He isn't a coach. That has never been his role in any team.

Kidney essentially does 4 things and has usually done them well.

1 - He surrounds himself with right coaches
2 - He picks the team on the advice of the coaches
3 - He creates a relaxed team atmosphere
4 - He uses man management skills to drive individual players to do better

I think that in recent times though he has not done these as well as he usually does.

Depends on who you listen to. I’ve read that Kidney will drop a player and not tell him why, whereas Schmidt will give a player a checklist of things that need to be improved.

Don't believe that for a minute. Didn't Tomas O'Leary (who was down in Cork) say that prior to the world cup Kidney offered to meet him half way (Kidney was going to drive to Portlaoise) to discuss him not bringing him to the world cup.

Mike Ross also said that after Kidney brought him to the US on tour, he gave Ross a list of things that he had to improve on.

by SecretFly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:You are all mad, you sound bitter by the fact that Declan Kidney is not conquering all in front of him, if he had the Ireland squad when Eddie O'Sullivan had it, you would have had more Grand slams and six nations title's to add to your list. It is not his fault that your best players are getting on, the regime before him did not accomodate for the future, you must learn to now live without BOD, ROG, DOC, POC,Peter Stringer and let Declan Kidney build his own empire from scratch.

Or in other words: "Please, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!!!!!!! keep Kidney! We need more Slams and having Ireland languishing in no-man's land will help the cause!"

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:You are all mad, you sound bitter by the fact that Declan Kidney is not conquering all in front of him, if he had the Ireland squad when Eddie O'Sullivan had it, you would have had more Grand slams and six nations title's to add to your list. It is not his fault that your best players are getting on, the regime before him did not accomodate for the future, you must learn to now live without BOD, ROG, DOC, POC,Peter Stringer and let Declan Kidney build his own empire from scratch.

How long is he allowed to build this empire.He's had 3 years and is only taking the team in one direction.

by LordDowlais Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:19 pm

eirebilly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:You are all mad, you sound bitter by the fact that Declan Kidney is not conquering all in front of him, if he had the Ireland squad when Eddie O'Sullivan had it, you would have had more Grand slams and six nations title's to add to your list. It is not his fault that your best players are getting on, the regime before him did not accomodate for the future, you must learn to now live without BOD, ROG, DOC, POC,Peter Stringer and let Declan Kidney build his own empire from scratch.

It is his fault when he continues to pick these players that are out of form and getting on though isnt it?

Yes, but that is because they are all he has, if the IRFU had put measures in place to replace BOD, Gordon D'Arcy, POC, DOC, then you would be far better off than you are now. Look, it might be an accident in Wales that we have such young tallent cutting their teeth, but this is why I am against having an A side, how long do you want to keep beefing up your A team with potetial before you make these players realise their potential and play for the first team. There was a comment on here that I have not seen much of the Irish provences this season, but I can tell you I have, and how long will it be before the likes of Rhys Ruddock and Zebo get a shot, or will they have to play for the Wolfhounds until they are 25/26 years old and not established then be expected to replace the likes of Bowe and Ferris at a drop of a hat then when it does not work, well you could always call for the coaches head couldn't you. Rolling Eyes

by Sin é Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:23 pm

eirebilly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:You are all mad, you sound bitter by the fact that Declan Kidney is not conquering all in front of him, if he had the Ireland squad when Eddie O'Sullivan had it, you would have had more Grand slams and six nations title's to add to your list. It is not his fault that your best players are getting on, the regime before him did not accomodate for the future, you must learn to now live without BOD, ROG, DOC, POC,Peter Stringer and let Declan Kidney build his own empire from scratch.

It is his fault when he continues to pick these players that are out of form and getting on though isnt it?

There were 9 changes between the starting team for the grand slam and the game against Wales this 6Ns.

Consdering our player population, thats major change.

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:23 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:You are all mad, you sound bitter by the fact that Declan Kidney is not conquering all in front of him, if he had the Ireland squad when Eddie O'Sullivan had it, you would have had more Grand slams and six nations title's to add to your list. It is not his fault that your best players are getting on, the regime before him did not accomodate for the future, you must learn to now live without BOD, ROG, DOC, POC,Peter Stringer and let Declan Kidney build his own empire from scratch.

It is his fault when he continues to pick these players that are out of form and getting on though isnt it?

Yes, but that is because they are all he has, if the IRFU had put measures in place to replace BOD, Gordon D'Arcy, POC, DOC, then you would be far better off than you are now. Look, it might be an accident in Wales that we have such young tallent cutting their teeth, but this is why I am against having an A side, how long do you want to keep beefing up your A team with potetial before you make these players realise their potential and play for the first team. There was a comment on here that I have not seen much of the Irish provences this season, but I can tell you I have, and how long will it be before the likes of Rhys Ruddock and Zebo get a shot, or will they have to play for the Wolfhounds until they are 25/26 years old and not established then be expected to replace the likes of Bowe and Ferris at a drop of a hat then when it does not work, well you could always call for the coaches head couldn't you.

You have lost me now to be honest. Isnt that part of what Declan Kidney was supposed to be doing, introducing new talent?

by LordDowlais Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:24 pm

Also, on a side note, do the IRFU pick players that are not centrally contracted ?

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:24 pm

Sin é wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:You are all mad, you sound bitter by the fact that Declan Kidney is not conquering all in front of him, if he had the Ireland squad when Eddie O'Sullivan had it, you would have had more Grand slams and six nations title's to add to your list. It is not his fault that your best players are getting on, the regime before him did not accomodate for the future, you must learn to now live without BOD, ROG, DOC, POC,Peter Stringer and let Declan Kidney build his own empire from scratch.

It is his fault when he continues to pick these players that are out of form and getting on though isnt it?

There were 9 changes between the starting team for the grand slam and the game against Wales this 6Ns.

Consdering our player population, thats major change.

Yes but that does not excuse the continual selection of players like D'Arcy who had not performed well for Ireland for many years now does it.

by SecretFly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:There was a comment on here that I have not seen much of the Irish provences this season, but I can tell you I have, and how long will it be before the likes of Rhys Ruddock and Zebo get a shot, or will they have to play for the Wolfhounds until they are 25/26 years old and not established then be expected to replace the likes of Bowe and Ferris at a drop of a hat

Direct that question to the man you're saying hasn't put a foot wrong. Direct it at the man who chooses who gets to play and who stays with the Wolfhounds.

by **Notch** Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:28 pm

Sin é wrote:The Poll would be more informative if we also had the information on the club/province the voters came from. I'd hazard a guess that every Leinster supporter wants him gone.

You just don't get it... it's not about provinces. If it is, we're part of the problem.

Great debate anyway guys. Keep it coming.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:29 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

Yes, but that is because they are all he has, if the IRFU had put measures in place to replace BOD, Gordon D'Arcy, POC, DOC, then you would be far better off than you are now.

BoD is still the best player in his position,we have Cave,Spence and Earls as back up for when he does bow out,PoC is still the best in his position and easily has 2-4 years more good years left.

DoC and D'Arcy sum up where Kidney is lacking,Donnacha Ryan should have been in ahead of Doc for the 6N but Kidney stuck by his old favourite despite Ryan taking his place at Munster.
D'Arcy is another who gets picked despite both Paddy Wallace and McFadden being better options,some people say that if McFadden doesn't start ahead of D'Arcy for Leinster then he can't do it for Ireland.However DoC doesn't start for Munster ahead of Ryan but Kidney still picked him for Ireland.

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:33 pm

ASLS, How can you be so certain that BOD is still the best player in his position? Not trying to be funny or anything but he is coming back from injury and who knows how it would have affected him. I believe that he will have a hard time proving his fitness and ability again.

by **Notch** Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:35 pm

eirebilly wrote:
red_stag wrote:
1 - He surrounds himself with right coaches
2 - He picks the team on the advice of the coaches
3 - He creates a relaxed team atmosphere
4 - He uses man management skills to drive individual players to do better.

I think that in recent times though he has not done these as well as he usually does.

1/ He still does. Not so sure he ever did, Gaffney was the wrong man and he hasn't been replaced.
2/ It is quite clear that he hasnt done this recently. Agreed.
3/ I still feel that the team respond to him in a positive way.
4/ I think that this is where he has been failing at the most in recent times.

Well, losing the coaches we have lost is certainly a major factor. We have no fitness coach (left and not replaced), we have no backs coach (left and not replaced) and our forwards coach is on medical leave. Thats why I've included the second option in the poll. The first two points Stag makes are crucial, because that isn't happening anymore.

Lord Dowlias, I think the source of the scepticism around Kidney is that no team he has ever coached plays the kind of rugby needed to be a really top side these days. (Sin E and DOD in 1... 2...). Sorry I can't stay and play as have a busy afternoon and evening ahead of me, but keep it going and play nice.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:36 pm

eirebilly wrote:ASLS, How can you be so certain that BOD is still the best player in his position? Not trying to be funny or anything but he is coming back from injury and who knows how it would have affected him. I believe that he will have a hard time proving his fitness and ability again.

True I can't be certain,I'm assuming he won't struggle to get back to the level he's capable of but now that you mention it that's nowhere close to a certainty at his age.

by Sin é Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:37 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Also, on a side note, do the IRFU pick players that are not centrally contracted ?

Yes, they do. Gordon D'Arcy, Sean O'Brien, Sean Cronin, Eoin Reddan, Conor Murray for starters.

Paddy Wallace, Luke Fitz & Tomas O'Leary have central contracts.

Your point about Rhys Ruddock - he is behind about 4 in Leinster. He turned down an offer from Munster where he would probably have had a starting spot. Zebo will get his chance, but his defence isn't quite there yet. I'd say he should be challenging in the Autumn Internatinals with a few more games under his belt. Tommy Bowe shouldn't be dropped for him just yet!

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:39 pm

Sin é wrote: Zebo will get his chance, but his defence isn't quite there yet. I'd say he should be challenging in the Autumn Internatinals with a few more games under his belt. Tommy Bowe shouldn't be dropped for him just yet!

Can he play right wing too SIn,I've only ever seen him play on the left but it'd be good to have another option who can play both.

by Sin é Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:40 pm

Notch wrote:
Sin é wrote:The Poll would be more informative if we also had the information on the club/province the voters came from. I'd hazard a guess that every Leinster supporter wants him gone.

You just don't get it... it's not about provinces. If it is, we're part of the problem.

Great debate anyway guys. Keep it coming.

Jebus, most decent surveys want background info on the participants Rolling Eyes

Are you afraid of what that info would throw up?

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:42 pm

Help me out here guys. As an outsider/neutral you had an ok 6N apart from the England game.

Think about it, was your 6N really that bad?

Wales, the GS winning, all conquering Wales beat you by the skin of their Teeth.

You Mullered Italy and Scotland.

Got a draw out of France

The England game was a blip but everyone can have an off day.

Thats a pretty good 6N considering your best players (BOD & POC) missed either all of the 6N or half of it respectively.

I shudder to think what would have happened to Scotland if we had lost Ford, Gray, Rennie.

by SecretFly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:43 pm

eirebilly wrote: I believe that he will have a hard time proving his fitness and ability again.

I think he'll be the first player to admit he'll now have a hard time proving his fitness and ability again. I don't think he looks for favours - I think he's propelled by that within him that has already made him a Great - the inner fight with himself to be as good as he can be.

Schmidt alluded to what you say too, billy; saying O'Driscoll knows he has to play for his position in Leinster that has been taken by others effectively. That's the fight that will energise him.

I have a feeling this will be a quick one, decision wise. If the injury was serious enough to continue to have an effect on his performance levels even after surgery then I think he won't want to hang around. - we could have a surprisingly rapid retirement. But I think too that if the shoulder stands up, he'll be doing everything needed to have another year or two at the top - performance wise as much as presence.

by **Notch** Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:43 pm

Sin é wrote:
Notch wrote:
Sin é wrote:The Poll would be more informative if we also had the information on the club/province the voters came from. I'd hazard a guess that every Leinster supporter wants him gone.

You just don't get it... it's not about provinces. If it is, we're part of the problem.

Great debate anyway guys. Keep it coming.

Jebus, most decent surveys want background info on the participants

Are you afraid of what that info would throw up?

a) can't do it in this format and b) Spectacularly missing the point altogether

by Sin é Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:47 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Sin é wrote: Zebo will get his chance, but his defence isn't quite there yet. I'd say he should be challenging in the Autumn Internatinals with a few more games under his belt. Tommy Bowe shouldn't be dropped for him just yet!

Can he play right wing too SIn,I've only ever seen him play on the left but it'd be good to have another option who can play both.

He generally plays 11 (but for Cork Con he has even played in the centre). He will be left there next season as Howlett plays 14.

Suits anyway, Kearney junior seems to play mostly on the right wing (if you are thinking of the next generation).

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:47 pm

Fly, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that BOD will fight tooth and nail to win his position back. He is far from being a primadonna and expecting a handout. What i fear the most is that he is not the youngest anymore and that extra effort may have an effect on him.

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:48 pm

Sin é wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Sin é wrote: Zebo will get his chance, but his defence isn't quite there yet. I'd say he should be challenging in the Autumn Internatinals with a few more games under his belt. Tommy Bowe shouldn't be dropped for him just yet!

Can he play right wing too SIn,I've only ever seen him play on the left but it'd be good to have another option who can play both.

He generally plays 11 (but for Cork Con he has even played in the centre). He will be left there next season as Howlett plays 14.

Suits anyway, Kearney junior seems to play mostly on the right wing (if you are thinking of the next generation).

Zebo was a handy 12 not that long ago but his best position is 11 i feel.

by Sin é Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:50 pm

Notch wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Notch wrote:
Sin é wrote:The Poll would be more informative if we also had the information on the club/province the voters came from. I'd hazard a guess that every Leinster supporter wants him gone.

You just don't get it... it's not about provinces. If it is, we're part of the problem.

Great debate anyway guys. Keep it coming.

Jebus, most decent surveys want background info on the participants

Are you afraid of what that info would throw up?

a) can't do it in this format and b) Spectacularly missing the point altogether

I haven't missed your point, I'm just pointing out that this survey doesn't mean a lot without knowing who the respondents are/where they are coming from.

by SecretFly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:51 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Help me out here guys. As an outsider/neutral you had an ok 6N apart from the England game.

Think about it, was your 6N really that bad?

Wales, the GS winning, all conquering Wales beat you by the skin of their Teeth.

You Mullered Italy and Scotland.

Got a draw out of France

The England game was a blip but everyone can have an off day.

Thats a pretty good 6N considering your best players (BOD & POC) missed either all of the 6N or half of it respectively.

I shudder to think what would have happened to Scotland if we had lost Ford, Gray, Rennie.

We look at the side perhaps more intently than neutral outsiders.......... and when we add up the players, the easy scoring and the subsequent results we tend to think it has been a very bad 6N because it's not being too presumptious to suggest the players+better structure could have comfortably won the 6N. So we see potential whilst neutrals just might see a team. You say Wales only scrapped past us........yes, and that was them playing their shiny fleet-footed stuff and us playing dreadfully both in defence and attack. That's potential being wasted.

by LordDowlais Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:51 pm

O.k then, if you get rid of Declan Kidney now, where do you think you will be ? I for one do not think you would be better off, you will be starting from scratch, and who would you have this new coach pick for his first fifteen ? Then when you can get through the second question without picking with your hand on your heart any of your old gaurd, then we will see where you should go, because half the names that have been bandeid about on here to coach you would either not want to or not be available to. Declan Kidney at least needs the rest of the year to prove himself with a new set of players. thumbsup

by SecretFly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:55 pm

I didn't actually vote yet Sin é. (I tend not to do the voting on any of these polls)............... so that's one more Leinster man undecided!!!

Come on, start the bribes Sin é. I don't mind brown envelopes just as long as they don't jingle Wink

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:55 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Help me out here guys. As an outsider/neutral you had an ok 6N apart from the England game.

Think about it, was your 6N really that bad?

It was pretty poor,one hammering,a draw with the worst French team I've ever seen and losing a home game to Wales.That's not good enough.

Wales, the GS winning, all conquering Wales beat you by the skin of their Teeth.

Wales are a decent side but they shouldn't be beating us at home,in fact we lost that match more than they won it as our defence was setup completely wrong all game.Maybe if our defence coach wasn't busy coaching the backs we'd have been better off.

You Mullered Italy and Scotland.

Yes that's a positive as we have struggled against both these sides in the past.

Got a draw out of France

A negative we had the game and then retreated into a conservative damage limitation gameplan in the 2nd half,not good enough.

The England game was a blip but everyone can have an off day.

I'm not really worried about this game as we all knew this could happen if we lost Ross,I don't lay any blame at Kidneys door for this result it's the previous 2 years I have a problem with.

Thats a pretty good 6N considering your best players (BOD & POC) missed either all of the 6N or half of it respectively.

I shudder to think what would have happened to Scotland if we had lost Ford, Gray, Rennie.

We were bound to suffer because of losing these two but the thing is I don't think we'd have been much better if they had both been fit,it's the gameplan and style of play that's the major problem

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:57 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Declan Kidney at least needs the rest of the year to prove himself with a new set of players.

He's had 3 years and what on earth makes you think he's going to pick a new set of players?

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:58 pm

What I wouldn't give for someone with Deccie's tactical accumen to come into the SRU and relieve Robinson of command.

He has done well for Ireland but the players have let him down, and it's players who normally play well, Heaslip, SOB, Darcy....give the guys a break, and if you give him the Sack tell him to send his CV to :

Scottish Rugby
Murrayfield
Edinburgh EH12 5PJ
Tel: 0131 346 5000
Fax: 0131 346 5001

by SecretFly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 1:02 pm

LordDowlais wrote:O.k then, if you get rid of Declan Kidney now, where do you think you will be ? I for one do not think you would be better off, you will be starting from scratch, and who would you have this new coach pick for his first fifteen ? Then when you can get through the second question without picking with your hand on your heart any of your old gaurd, then we will see where you should go, because half the names that have been bandeid about on here to coach you would either not want to or not be available to. Declan Kidney at least needs the rest of the year to prove himself with a new set of players.

You have a pretty bleak view of Ireland' position in world International circles, Lord. No coach we want would either want to, or be available to, coach Ireland anyway. You think we're a 3rd world rugby nation now simply because we got blown away by England?

Declan Kidney needs the rest of the year to prove himself with a new set of players................. yet a few lines earlier you're saying we're kidding ourselves if we think a new coach would just be able pick a new 15? Anything Kidney can do a new coach is capable of doing...if they're both human that is.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 21 Mar 2012, 1:04 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

He has done well for Ireland but the players have let him down, and it's players who normally play well, Heaslip, SOB, Darcy....give the guys a break

If this is true why doesn't he try picking someone else?He picks the same old team with the same old gameplan that hasn't worked for 2 years and expects us to improve.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again yet expecting different results.

by SecretFly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 1:09 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:What I wouldn't give for someone with Deccie's tactical accumen to come into the SRU and relieve Robinson of command.

He has done well for Ireland but the players have let him down, and it's players who normally play well, Heaslip, SOB, Darcy....give the guys a break, and if you give him the Sack tell him to send his CV to :

Scottish Rugby
Murrayfield
Edinburgh EH12 5PJ
Tel: 0131 346 5000
Fax: 0131 346 5001

Sorry Rugger...Kidney is I'm sure still a great Provincial coach...and we'll be offering him back to Munster. He'll bring the Bull (attitude not the player!) back to them and we'll all beat the living daylights out of each other at Provincial level and in the process give great players to the International side.

That's my plan Wink

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 1:13 pm

Kidney will go back to Munster at some level if he is not the Irish coach thats for certain.

by GunsGerms Wed 21 Mar 2012, 1:41 pm

In a perfect world Vern Cotter or Ewan McKensie would be my first choices.

I would also interview:

Brendan Venter (Irish media won't bother him as much)
Nick Mallet
Conor O'Shea
Michael Cheika

Either way I reckon the coaching staff, backs coach etc. are as important if not more important. Let kiss take the defense, get a good backs coach and I probably keep Small too.

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 1:43 pm

I would love to have Conor O'Shea. He would be my first choice.

by GunsGerms Wed 21 Mar 2012, 1:48 pm

In my opinion OShea is a good director of rugby. Not sure what he would bring to the table if he was Ireland manager. I don't think he would be an ideal choice.

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 1:53 pm

Well for one, i think that he would certainly surround himself with the right coaches. That would be a great strength.

by SecretFly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:02 pm

O'Shea has done a lot of apologising for things happening on the field and at coaching level. That concerns me. He has done a lot of "You can't do that" "Kidney has to go with him" "You can't just change this"

For me, I've just heard too much of that from O'Shea over the years when legitimate criticism was coming the way of the team and the coaches.

It concerns me because if he can't see and bravely highlight the errors going on when he's only a pundit, then I think 'accepting situations' might be also his modus operandi when coaching too.

Just a personal view of O'Shea - along with the fact that he can read games appallingly when helping out in commentary. I have been startled by his opinions at times this year when he did some commentary for Pro12 games.

by red_stag Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:19 pm

Fly Im not sure that he has.

I remember post RWC he declared the 6 Nations team he wanted to see.

It included a Sean O'Brien, Dom Ryan and Jamie Heaslip backrow, Stephen Ferris at lock and Brian O'Driscoll at 12.

Now that looks silly but the likes of Peter O'Mahony and Donnacha Ryan werent ready then but the point remains that he saw change to our second rows, backrow and midfield was needed and that remains the case.

I think he understands the provinces and has done great things with Quins so far. I think he would be a top shout.

I also think he would trasition from the calm atmosphere Deccie has created into a more professional attitude.

by LordDowlais Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:23 pm

SecretFly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:O.k then, if you get rid of Declan Kidney now, where do you think you will be ? I for one do not think you would be better off, you will be starting from scratch, and who would you have this new coach pick for his first fifteen ? Then when you can get through the second question without picking with your hand on your heart any of your old gaurd, then we will see where you should go, because half the names that have been bandeid about on here to coach you would either not want to or not be available to. Declan Kidney at least needs the rest of the year to prove himself with a new set of players.

You have a pretty bleak view of Ireland' position in world International circles, Lord. No coach we want would either want to, or be available to, coach Ireland anyway. You think we're a 3rd world rugby nation now simply because we got blown away by England?

Declan Kidney needs the rest of the year to prove himself with a new set of players................. yet a few lines earlier you're saying we're kidding ourselves if we think a new coach would just be able pick a new 15? Anything Kidney can do a new coach is capable of doing...if they're both human that is.

Well, looking at how you lot on here are tar and feathering your current coach, there will be no reason for any coach to want go to you. Also, the way you are all telling us what he should be doing, it is a wonder why you are all on here and not throwing your application forms into the IRFU for his job. All I am saying is, because prior regimes did not care about the future, he has now been left with aging superstars with no one yet up to their level to replace them.How old is that center from Ulster(Mcfadden) I am sure he is about 26/27 years old, he should have been capped or around the Ireland squad 5 years ago.

by **Notch** Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:25 pm

Sin é wrote:I haven't missed your point, I'm just pointing out that this survey doesn't mean a lot without knowing who the respondents are/where they are coming from.

Do you think anything written on this site matters? Its just an informal poll of all rugby fans- both inside and outside Ireland. It's not the feicing census. I'm not going to write a scientific paper about it. Chill.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:26 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Well, looking at how you lot on here are tar and feathering your current coach, there will be no reason for any coach to want go to you. Also, the way you are all telling us what he should be doing, it is a wonder why you are all on here and not throwing your application forms into the IRFU for his job. All I am saying is, because prior regimes did not care about the future, he has now been left with aging superstars with no one yet up to their level to replace them.How old is that center from Ulster(Mcfadden) I am sure he is about 26/27 years old, he should have been capped or around the Ireland squad 5 years ago.

Lol you really shouldn't be lecturing us if you think McFadden is from Ulster.to answer your question he wasn't good enough 5 years ago,he's never gonna be a top class international centre but at the moment he's a better shout than D'Arcy.
You claim prior regimes didn't care about the future but fail to acknowledge that Kidney has had 3 years to effect change,he hasn't done it.

by Sin é Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:28 pm

SecretFly wrote:O'Shea has done a lot of apologising for things happening on the field and at coaching level. That concerns me. He has done a lot of "You can't do that" "Kidney has to go with him" "You can't just change this"

For me, I've just heard too much of that from O'Shea over the years when legitimate criticism was coming the way of the team and the coaches.

It concerns me because if he can't see and bravely highlight the errors going on when he's only a pundit, then I think 'accepting situations' might be also his modus operandi when coaching too.

Just a personal view of O'Shea - along with the fact that he can read games appallingly when helping out in commentary. I have been startled by his opinions at times this year when he did some commentary for Pro12 games.

Considering that O'Shea is a relatively successful coach, what are your coaching credentials to suggest that he is getting it wrong in his analysis? Very Happy

Conor O'Shea is not interested in the Ireland job. He said it very clearly in an interview with Matt Cooper. Said he "wasn't remotely qualified for the job." which is another way of saying "No thanks". Good interview here. Scroll down the page. Interviews also here of Sexton and a few others.

http://www.todayfm.com/Shows/Weekdays/Matt-Cooper/Matt-Cooper-Blog.aspx

by LordDowlais Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:29 pm

I also forgot, with BOD injury this would have been an ideal time for somebody who was waiting in his wings to show what he has to prove, but as you had no one really there you just stuck with D'Arcy and Earls, who are both good players but BOD they are not.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:32 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I also forgot, with BOD injury this would have been an ideal time for somebody who was waiting in his wings to show what he has to prove, but as you had no one really there you just stuck with D'Arcy and Earls, who are both good players but BOD they are not.

What are you talking about,Darren Cave was injured so Earls is the next best 13,there are 2 better 12's than D'Arcy but Kidney refuses to pick them.

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I also forgot, with BOD injury this would have been an ideal time for somebody who was waiting in his wings to show what he has to prove, but as you had no one really there you just stuck with D'Arcy and Earls, who are both good players but BOD they are not.

Once again you have me totally confused. There are better options at 12 than D'Arcy but Kidney would not pick them. He has had 3 years to bring this talent through and he has failed. If he was in his first year then i would accept this but he has had 3 years to do this.

by red_stag Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:50 pm

[quote="Sin é]Conor O'Shea is not interested in the Ireland job. He said it very clearly in an interview with Matt Cooper. Said he "wasn't remotely qualified for the job." which is another way of saying "No thanks". [/quote]

Yea thats very true.

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