Ireland Coaching Position; Open Poll And Discussion

by **Notch** Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:30 pm

First topic message reminder :

Continuing on from the previous thread ( https://www.606v2.com/t26089-kidney-s-record-as-irish-coach ) what do you think should happen with the Ireland coaching position?

Vote and leave comments, suggestions of names, defences of the current set-up below. Don't just vote, tell us why.

Please let's try and have a constructive debate; input from posters of all nations encouraged.

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:36 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Aaaargh, for fecks sake, talk about kneejerk reactions, who do you all think you are, Welsh ? It is usually us who messes things up, not you lot. Lets not forget, this is a man who has won Heineken Cups', Celtic Leagues, Ireland's first grand slam in a bizzilion years and now you lot want to get rid of him. It is not his fault that your superstars are getting older and are on their way out, unless the Irish regions bring through AND USE decent up and comming players then how on earth can Declan Kidney gauge them ? The only player I have seen this season come through the ranks in Ireland and really look the real deal is Zebo. There is defenatley players there but for some reason they are not being used as they should. How many young Irish tightheads are playing regular rugby for their regions ? How many Irish outside half's are playing regular for their regions. The older player nedd to be taken off their central contract's and make way for the younger players, and just give Declan Kidney a chance, Ireland are too good a rugby nation to just turn crap over one season.

What's kneejerk about it,if you had been following the Irish threads on 606 you'd realise we've been calling for Kidney to change things or leave for at least 12 months.

I think you'll find that there were Irish threads on 606 calling for Kidney to resign even before he got the job Very Happy

The Poll would be more informative if we also had the information on the club/province the voters came from. I'd hazard a guess that every Leinster supporter wants him gone.

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:38 am

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Ireland were the top try scorers in the 6Ns (with 13 tries). 10 of those were scored by backs.

Not only that, they were also top points scorers. Remarkable stats for a side that prides itself on defence and still comes away with those high scoring stats and only third place.

Who is responsible for the try scoring? Kidney?

Les Kis was the backs coach for the 6Ns. It used to be Gaffney.

by SecretFly Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:39 am

LordDowlais wrote: The only player I have seen this season come through the ranks in Ireland and really look the real deal is Zebo.

Okay, so you haven't been looking at much Irish Provincial rugby this season then.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:42 am

Sin é wrote:
I think you'll find that there were Irish threads on 606 calling for Kidney to resign even before he got the job

The Poll would be more informative if we also had the information on the club/province the voters came from. I'd hazard a guess that every Leinster supporter wants him gone.

Well I don't remember those threads.I know that I for one was delighted when Kidney got the job he was the correct appointment at the time and his record with Munster proved it.In the same way his record over the last 2 years proves he's no longer the right appointment and we should get someone else in to clean up his mess.

Let me ask you this,what are you so afraid of?Replacing Kidney can go one of two ways either we get better or we stay the same as I don't see how we can get any worse so why not take a shot.

by eirebilly Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:43 am

Sin é wrote:
I think you'll find that there were Irish threads on 606 calling for Kidney to resign even before he got the job

The Poll would be more informative if we also had the information on the club/province the voters came from. I'd hazard a guess that every Leinster supporter wants him gone.

I am Munster through and through and i want him gone.

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:44 am

Mickado wrote:Keith Earls, Eoin Reddan, Fergus McFadden, Andrew Trimble x 2, Tommy Bowe x5.

Maybe you could enlighten us with how any of these tries were scored because well coached backlines? I'm assuming you can tell the difference between a back that is playing well, and good backs play.

Didn't Leinster lose their first couple of games (3 or 4) when Schmidt took over first?

Kiss as Backs Coach (with no pre-season) got Ireland's backs scoring tries.

Andrew Trimble hasn't scored a try at international level for about 4 years (other than one against Russia).

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:48 am

eirebilly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
I think you'll find that there were Irish threads on 606 calling for Kidney to resign even before he got the job

The Poll would be more informative if we also had the information on the club/province the voters came from. I'd hazard a guess that every Leinster supporter wants him gone.

I am Munster through and through and i want him gone.

Bully for you.

I want to know though is there a Leinster supporter out there who thinks he should stay (after all its not quite the runaway Poll that Kidney should be sacked that some expected it to be).

by SecretFly Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:50 am

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Ireland were the top try scorers in the 6Ns (with 13 tries). 10 of those were scored by backs.

Not only that, they were also top points scorers. Remarkable stats for a side that prides itself on defence and still comes away with those high scoring stats and only third place.

Who is responsible for the try scoring? Kidney?

Les Kis was the backs coach for the 6Ns. It used to be Gaffney.

You have a closet full of names but no answers Sin. Les Kiss isn't the topic. Les Kiss is making as much impact as backs coach as Gaffney was making before him (you'll throw up the try ratio and I'll throw up no discernible pattern in attack, merely opportunistic individual efforts that awkwardly find enough support to pull things off). You want to give Kidney plaudits for the try splurge this year, then also be ready to query the results we've being suffering for the last few years.

by eirebilly Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:50 am

[quote="Sin é"]

eirebilly wrote:
Bully for you.

I want to know though is there a Leinster supporter out there who thinks he should stay (after all its not quite the runaway Poll that Kidney should be sacked that some expected it to be).

Bully for me? What an odd thing to say.

You seem to think that this is all down to Leinster people wanting him gone and i was slightly highlighting the fact that people from other Provinces may also wish him to step down, even Munster people.

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:02 am

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Ireland were the top try scorers in the 6Ns (with 13 tries). 10 of those were scored by backs.

Not only that, they were also top points scorers. Remarkable stats for a side that prides itself on defence and still comes away with those high scoring stats and only third place.

Who is responsible for the try scoring? Kidney?

Les Kis was the backs coach for the 6Ns. It used to be Gaffney.

You have a closet full of names but no answers Sin. Les Kiss isn't the topic. Les Kiss is making as much impact as backs coach as Gaffney was making before him (you'll throw up the try ratio and I'll throw up no discernible pattern in attack, merely opportunistic individual efforts that awkwardly find enough support to pull things off). You want to give Kidney plaudits for the try splurge this year, then also be ready to query the results we've being suffering for the last few years.

I was responding to a post from Notch who said that Ireland could do with a new Backs Coach. I was just pointing out that Kiss did a reasonable job as Ireland Backs Coach during the 6Ns bearing in mind that he only had the team for a week before playing Wales and going onto state that it took Schmidt with Leinster a couple of weeks to sort out Leinster's play and he had them for a couple of months pre-season.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:09 am

Sin é wrote:
I was responding to a post from Notch who said that Ireland could do with a new Backs Coach. I was just pointing out that Kiss did a reasonable job as Ireland Backs Coach during the 6Ns bearing in mind that he only had the team for a week before playing Wales and going onto state that it took Schmidt with Leinster a couple of weeks to sort out Leinster's play and he had them for a couple of months pre-season.

The difference is that when Schmidt got it right he turned Leinster into the best team in Europe,Ireland on the other hand are a mediocre 3rd or 4th in Europe.
Kiss was also forced to double job which must have contributed to our shocking defensive effort in the game against Wales.It's damning that Kidney knew Gaffney was leaving after the WC yet didn't line up a replacement it must be close to a year now since he found out he'd need a new backs coach.

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:10 am

[quote="eirebilly"]

Sin é wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Bully for you.

I want to know though is there a Leinster supporter out there who thinks he should stay (after all its not quite the runaway Poll that Kidney should be sacked that some expected it to be).

Bully for me? What an odd thing to say.

You seem to think that this is all down to Leinster people wanting him gone and i was slightly highlighting the fact that people from other Provinces may also wish him to step down, even Munster people.

Not into hockey then Billy? In hockey a game is started/restarted with a 'bully off'. The phrase used means that you won the 'bully'.

I'm well aware that lots of people want him gone - and I'd like to know who they are. Leinster supporters are not rational about Kidney as they have never forgiven him for as they claim 'walking out on them' and returning to Munster.

by Mickado Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:12 am

Sin é wrote:
Mickado wrote:Keith Earls, Eoin Reddan, Fergus McFadden, Andrew Trimble x 2, Tommy Bowe x5.

Maybe you could enlighten us with how any of these tries were scored because well coached backlines? I'm assuming you can tell the difference between a back that is playing well, and good backs play.

Didn't Leinster lose their first couple of games (3 or 4) when Schmidt took over first?

Kiss as Backs Coach (with no pre-season) got Ireland's backs scoring tries.

Andrew Trimble hasn't scored a try at international level for about 4 years (other than one against Russia).

Yes, Leinster lost their first 3 games under Schmidt….

…what’s the point?

We’ve also gone unbeaten in the last 20 games. which is a much more relevant stat. But no, Waps and Leicester in preseason in 2010 are still worth a mention. Fair play to ya. Spot on there.

by Standulstermen Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:13 am

So if the majority of people in Ireland want him gone it still won't be relevant because off where they potentially come from. Ulsterman here and I want him to leave.

I'm going out on a limb here but I think rodders, Geoff, aukster and probably notch feel the same.

Sin I haven't seen so much straw clutching about a vote since Ian paisley after the good Friday agreement.

by red_stag Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:14 am

Like Eirebilly, I am a Munster fan who feel Kidney has reached end of the line.

Provinces has nothing to do with it and its very very sad for Irish rugby that we all have to label ourselves as Leinster/Munster/Ulster for our opinions to be taken seriously by people.

Forget about the provinces people for a while and come together to support Ireland. They'll be there when we go back to provincial rugby games.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:14 am

Sin é wrote:
I'm well aware that lots of people want him gone - and I'd like to know who they are. Leinster supporters are not rational about Kidney as they have never forgiven him for as they claim 'walking out on them' and returning to Munster.

You say that like it's a fact,when it's just your own paranoid rambling.

by eirebilly Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:15 am

Nope, i plead complete ignorance to the hockey reference Sin.

I am not so sure that it is down to Leinster fans against Kidney to be honest. I have said on many occasions that Declan is a good coach but i just dont think that he is the right man to take Ireland forward. Irelands performances have become fewer and farther between in the last 2 years and it looks to be a motivational or coaching problem (or a combination of both).

by red_stag Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:16 am

SinE, is it also fair to say Munster people are not rational about Kidney as he granted them so much success?

So we'll leave it upto the Connacht and Ulster fans to decide.

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:17 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Sin é wrote:
I was responding to a post from Notch who said that Ireland could do with a new Backs Coach. I was just pointing out that Kiss did a reasonable job as Ireland Backs Coach during the 6Ns bearing in mind that he only had the team for a week before playing Wales and going onto state that it took Schmidt with Leinster a couple of weeks to sort out Leinster's play and he had them for a couple of months pre-season.

The difference is that when Schmidt got it right he turned Leinster into the best team in Europe,Ireland on the other hand are a mediocre 3rd or 4th in Europe.

Kiss was also forced to double job which must have contributed to our shocking defensive effort in the game against Wales.It's damning that Kidney knew Gaffney was leaving after the WC yet didn't line up a replacement it must be close to a year now since he found out he'd need a new backs coach.

Get a grip will you. It would have been really stupid to publicise that you reckon your backs coach isn't up to it BEFORE you go to a world cup.

Secondly, you have no idea on the availability of whoever they are getting. They are more than likely contracted to a club (if they are any good that is) until the end of this season.

Thirdly, The 6Ns is mid-season (start of the season is autumn internationals). The new Backs Coach would have had a week to work with the team.

by Standulstermen Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:18 am

I think kidney has to go away and look at his style of game. I genuinely can't see him being successful at a high level without a serious rethink in how he sees his teams playing.

He had the game plan for the old rules down to a tee. Seriously spot on. He hasn't been able to change though.

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:19 am

Mickado wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Mickado wrote:Keith Earls, Eoin Reddan, Fergus McFadden, Andrew Trimble x 2, Tommy Bowe x5.

Maybe you could enlighten us with how any of these tries were scored because well coached backlines? I'm assuming you can tell the difference between a back that is playing well, and good backs play.

Didn't Leinster lose their first couple of games (3 or 4) when Schmidt took over first?

Kiss as Backs Coach (with no pre-season) got Ireland's backs scoring tries.

Andrew Trimble hasn't scored a try at international level for about 4 years (other than one against Russia).

Yes, Leinster lost their first 3 games under Schmidt….

…what’s the point?

We’ve also gone unbeaten in the last 20 games. which is a much more relevant stat. But no, Waps and Leicester in preseason in 2010 are still worth a mention. Fair play to ya. Spot on there.

The point is that it took Schmidt more than a week to sort out the Leinster backs. A week is what the Ireland backs coach had.

by red_stag Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:22 am

Ok so what do we think guys. Will we let Sin é continue in his role as Ireland head coach?

by asoreleftshoulder Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:23 am

Sin é wrote:
Get a grip will you. It would have been really stupid to publicise that you reckon your backs coach isn't up to it BEFORE you go to a world cup.

Secondly, you have no idea on the availability of whoever they are getting. They are more than likely contracted to a club (if they are any good that is) until the end of this season.

Thirdly, The 6Ns is mid-season (start of the season is autumn internationals). The new Backs Coach would have had a week to work with the team.

Lol I'm not saying they had to take out a full page ad in all the national newspapers,just use some contacts to find a competent coach.Pretty basic stuff to be honest.

So it's better to have Kiss doing 2 jobs with only a week to work with them than having someone who's going to be there long term?How does that make any sense?

by Mickado Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:23 am

Sin é wrote:
Mickado wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Mickado wrote:Keith Earls, Eoin Reddan, Fergus McFadden, Andrew Trimble x 2, Tommy Bowe x5.

Maybe you could enlighten us with how any of these tries were scored because well coached backlines? I'm assuming you can tell the difference between a back that is playing well, and good backs play.

Didn't Leinster lose their first couple of games (3 or 4) when Schmidt took over first?

Kiss as Backs Coach (with no pre-season) got Ireland's backs scoring tries.

Andrew Trimble hasn't scored a try at international level for about 4 years (other than one against Russia).

Yes, Leinster lost their first 3 games under Schmidt….

…what’s the point?

We’ve also gone unbeaten in the last 20 games. which is a much more relevant stat. But no, Waps and Leicester in preseason in 2010 are still worth a mention. Fair play to ya. Spot on there.

The point is that it took Schmidt more than a week to sort out the Leinster backs. A week is what the Ireland backs coach had.

Wrong. They met in January in Carton house.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:24 am

Sin é wrote:

The point is that it took Schmidt more than a week to sort out the Leinster backs. A week is what the Ireland backs coach had.

The Ireland backs coach also had to work on the defence due to the negligence of his head coach in finding somone to coach the backs.

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:25 am

red_stag wrote:SinE, is it also fair to say Munster people are not rational about Kidney as he granted them so much success?

So we'll leave it upto the Connacht and Ulster fans to decide.

Maybe Munster people are not rational about Kidney. And no, its not just up to Connacht and Ulster fans to decide. Scots, English & Welsh also can vote and have (propably) a more unbaised opinion.

by Standulstermen Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:25 am

By not extending gaffneys contract did we sort of already not publicise that he wasn't up to it?

Everyone got a contract but him if I am not mistaken?

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:26 am

[quote="Sin é"]

red_stag wrote:SinE, is it also fair to say Munster people are not rational about Kidney as he granted them so much success?

So we'll leave it upto the Connacht and Ulster fans to decide.

Maybe Munster people are not rational about Kidney. And no, its not just up to Connacht and Ulster fans to decide. Scots, English & Welsh also can vote and have (propably) a more unbaised opinion.

It would be more informative to know where these voters are from as Kidney seems to be a very divisive character among ireland fans (not the team though).

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:28 am

Standulstermen wrote:By not extending gaffneys contract did we sort of already not publicise that he wasn't up to it?

Everyone got a contract but him if I am not mistaken?

Yep, he decided he was going back home to Australia. Hardly surprising considering his age.

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:30 am

Mickado wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Mickado wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Mickado wrote:Keith Earls, Eoin Reddan, Fergus McFadden, Andrew Trimble x 2, Tommy Bowe x5.

Maybe you could enlighten us with how any of these tries were scored because well coached backlines? I'm assuming you can tell the difference between a back that is playing well, and good backs play.

Didn't Leinster lose their first couple of games (3 or 4) when Schmidt took over first?

Kiss as Backs Coach (with no pre-season) got Ireland's backs scoring tries.

Andrew Trimble hasn't scored a try at international level for about 4 years (other than one against Russia).

Yes, Leinster lost their first 3 games under Schmidt….

…what’s the point?

We’ve also gone unbeaten in the last 20 games. which is a much more relevant stat. But no, Waps and Leicester in preseason in 2010 are still worth a mention. Fair play to ya. Spot on there.

The point is that it took Schmidt more than a week to sort out the Leinster backs. A week is what the Ireland backs coach had.

Wrong. They met in January in Carton house.

Yep, a week or so before Ireland met Wales. It was their first game with Kiss as backs coach.

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:32 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Sin é wrote:

The point is that it took Schmidt more than a week to sort out the Leinster backs. A week is what the Ireland backs coach had.

The Ireland backs coach also had to work on the defence due to the negligence of his head coach in finding somone to coach the backs.

Yea, Kiss is no Joe schmidt who is Leinster's Head, Defensive & Backs coach Whistle

by red_stag Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:32 am

What would have been wrong with that though. Have the team roaring and ready for the Summer Tour. Thats always been my priorirty this year.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:34 am

Sin é wrote:

Yea, Kiss is no Joe schmidt who is Leinster's Head, Defensive & Backs coach

Kdiney is no Joe Schmidt either,remind me what does Kidney actually do?

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:35 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Get a grip will you. It would have been really stupid to publicise that you reckon your backs coach isn't up to it BEFORE you go to a world cup.

Secondly, you have no idea on the availability of whoever they are getting. They are more than likely contracted to a club (if they are any good that is) until the end of this season.

Thirdly, The 6Ns is mid-season (start of the season is autumn internationals). The new Backs Coach would have had a week to work with the team.

Lol I'm not saying they had to take out a full page ad in all the national newspapers,just use some contacts to find a competent coach.Pretty basic stuff to be honest.

So it's better to have Kiss doing 2 jobs with only a week to work with them than having someone who's going to be there long term?How does that make any sense?

Anyone worth hiring is going to be working. He/she would have to walk out on their club mid-season.

by eirebilly Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:35 am

red_stag wrote:What would have been wrong with that though. Have the team roaring and ready for the Summer Tour. Thats always been my priorirty this year.

Really? Its up there but the 6N was my personal priority.

As for the summer tour, i am hoping that players like ROG, DOC and D'Arcy are not selected and some younger players brought in. I love them all to the bone but its time to move on.

by red_stag Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:38 am

Eire, no I was happy to just get through the Six Nations and deliver in NZ.

I've already said that Kidney is at end of line for me. However if I see:

- 1 win against NZ
- No hammaring by NZ in any test
- A dedicated attacking coach (not a "backs" coach)
- Darcy and O'Callaghan both out of the match day 22

I will be happy for him to continue. I dont feel he can deliver that though at the minute.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:39 am

Sin é wrote:

Anyone worth hiring is going to be working. He/she would have to walk out on their club mid-season.

I see so just leave the post empty for 8 months rather than buy someone out of a contract,sounds like bad policy to me.
Why didn't Kidney take over the backs coaching instead of making Kiss do everything,afterall he doesn't have any other coaching role with Ireland.Is he lazy? Smile

by SecretFly Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:39 am

Sin é wrote:
red_stag wrote:SinE, is it also fair to say Munster people are not rational about Kidney as he granted them so much success?

So we'll leave it upto the Connacht and Ulster fans to decide.

Maybe Munster people are not rational about Kidney. And no, its not just up to Connacht and Ulster fans to decide. Scots, English & Welsh also can vote and have (propably) a more unbaised opinion.

Unbiased opinion? I've a causal interest in English, Scotch and Welsh coaching teams...but I don't think I'd be telling them who I think they should choose for coach that would improve them too much. I'm not that nice, not that unselfish and not that innocent. The English, Scotch and Welsh would secretly love for us to keep the same coaches.

This fallacy that goes round that we're all in this together and that we want each other to improve and sock it to the SH........................ I don't buy it. We're competitors. Ireland with a new coaching team????!!!!!!!!!!! Mystery. Not good for Gatland, Robinson or Lancaster... or their fans.

by red_stag Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:42 am

ASLS,

He isn't lazy. To be honest thats just being silly.

He isn't a coach. That has never been his role in any team.

Kidney essentially does 4 things and has usually done them well.

1 - He surrounds himself with right coaches
2 - He picks the team on the advice of the coaches
3 - He creates a relaxed team atmosphere
4 - He uses man management skills to drive individual players to do better

I think that in recent times though he has not done these as well as he usually does.

by eirebilly Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:42 am

Fair enough Stag, each to their own. For me the summer tour is not the priority just as the 6N was before it.

One win against NZ and not being completely crushed would be a result but thats exactly what Kidney does. He manages to get one excellent result that keeps him in the job. I say cut ties with him now and give the summer tour to a new coaching team.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:44 am

red_stag wrote:ASLS,

He isn't lazy. To be honest thats just being silly.

Sorry should have put a smilie to show I wasn't being serious,just trying to make a joke.

by red_stag Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:46 am

Billy, I say the same. I'm quite happy to see new coaches come in as I think its a better way forward for us.

However if we do stick with Kidney and we mange to turn in 3 competitive games against NZ beating them for the first time in history, with new players in key positions - then I reckon I'd be happy for him to stay.

by dublin_dave Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:46 am

but schmidt is obviously hands on and has done a good job in this respect.

if kidney wants to delegate as a head coach that is absolutely fair enough. having less kiss as a defense and attack coach i do not see as being practical. we need a fresh voice i cannot believe there is such debate over this. thought this would be common ground between both pro kidney and anti kidney

2 wins from 5 in the 6 nations would lead me to believe that having Kiss double jobbing is not ideal at all. we had some good attacking play but also some very poor defensive play in tournament

sin e- im guessing you think we should leave things exactly as is for the summer tour and box kick and garryowen until the cows come home with donners, darcy and heaslip starting everygame regardless of their lack of form or impact. If so fair enough your entitled to your opinion. However we will be challenging for the wooden spoon in the coming years so while other countries move past us if we do not at least try to improve

by red_stag Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:46 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
red_stag wrote:ASLS,

He isn't lazy. To be honest thats just being silly.

Sorry should have put a smilie to show I wasn't being serious,just trying to make a joke.

Ah the cyrptic study of smileyology

In years to come we will do 99% of communication just by smileys!!

thumbsup

by Mickado Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:47 am

red_stag wrote:ASLS,

He isn't lazy. To be honest thats just being silly.

He isn't a coach. That has never been his role in any team.

Kidney essentially does 4 things and has usually done them well.

1 - He surrounds himself with right coaches
2 - He picks the team on the advice of the coaches
3 - He creates a relaxed team atmosphere
4 - He uses man management skills to drive individual players to do better

I think that in recent times though he has not done these as well as he usually does.

Depends on who you listen to. I’ve read that Kidney will drop a player and not tell him why, whereas Schmidt will give a player a checklist of things that need to be improved.

by eirebilly Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:47 am

red_stag wrote:
1 - He surrounds himself with right coaches
Never a truer word spoken.
2 - He picks the team on the advice of the coaches
You know, i have never been so sure of this.
3 - He creates a relaxed team atmosphere
That he does exceptionally well, one of the best in fact.
4 - He uses man management skills to drive individual players to do better
Thats exactly what he does, people think that he is a quiet man but i can tell you that he can be quite sharp and too the point when needed.

I think that in recent times though he has not done these as well as he usually does.

1/ He still does.
2/ It is quite clear that he hasnt done this recently.
3/ I still feel that the team respond to him in a positive way.
4/ I think that this is where he has been failing at the most in recent times.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:48 am

Yeah this communication by text isn't as simple as it seems.

by Sin é Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:50 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Anyone worth hiring is going to be working. He/she would have to walk out on their club mid-season.

I see so just leave the post empty for 8 months rather than buy someone out of a contract,sounds like bad policy to me.
Why didn't Kidney take over the backs coaching instead of making Kiss do everything,afterall he doesn't have any other coaching role with Ireland.Is he lazy?

I can't think of any coach being bought out of his contract mid-season. Coaches are usually not fired mid-season either. Rugby doesn't operate like soccer (and you don't have the same horsetrading with players and transfer fees). You finish out your contract and then move on.

Maybe Kidney felt that Kiss would do a better job than he would?

by eirebilly Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:51 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Yeah this communication by text isn't as simple as it seems.

Does that mean that i have been getting DOD wrong all this time? Wink

by SecretFly Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:51 am

I don't believe Kidney is responsible for the loss of coaches around him and the lack of renewal in that department. I think he's the kind of man (dignified and honourable) that would take the flack for that publically but I think it's an issue the IRFU are controlling and dictating - for whatever reasons. Perhaps they are waiting on coaches they have been talking secretly to. - we'll see.

I don't blame Kidney and I think the IRFU are putting him under more pressure than is fair to him and I DO cut him some slack because of it. I've said this before a number of times so I'm not backtracking on anything.

But with his influence I still see too much emphasis on defending tight leads when using the impetus of leads to drive home superiority would be the better gameplan, in my opinion. It's the overall plan, the blueprint, I keep coming back to when I talk Kidney and Ireland.

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Should Declan Kidney continue as Ireland coach?