Chavez Jr the Dodger

First topic message reminder :

Seems as if Bob Arum has strung this to all his fighters:

http://www.boxingscene.com/sergio-martinez-wants-drug-testing-chavez-jr-rejects-it--50869


Another fight dodge and excuse not to get beat.

Thoughts?

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Haha, Ox

Maybe you should throw Az a bigger shovel cause that hole is getting deeper.

"I watched some videos on YouTube and liked him" hahahahahhahaahahah are you actually for real!? That is your basis of placing someone onto your top 10!!!!!

I said from the start you were making a "look at me" point and you have just cemented that by being absolutely embarrassed by Oxring. Honestly I'm laughing just reading what you've wrote.

You don't watch lower weight fighters but you have them on your P4P list. Fantastic Az.

I knew you where a bit nuts but jeez!!!

I don't understand why Marquez gets anywhere near 3 tbh. He stays in the top 10 but only due to controversy in the Manny fight. He still drops places due to the L on his record.

1: Floyd Mayweather
2: Manny Pacquiao
3: Sergio Martinez
4: Nonito Donaire
5: Miguel Cotto
6: Wladimer Klit
7: Juan Marquez
8: Andre Ward
9: Yorg. Gamboa
10: Timothy Bradley

That's more like it ;-)

Haven't you got anything better to do other than baiting me. I dont have to see every fight of Broner to know that already in terms of talent and ability he is top 10. Martinez is a good boxer but others are better than him. No 3 is too high. JJM should be higher based on the obvious. Cotto too high also. I wouldn't have Manny at 2 based on my opinion that he lost to JMM. Why should JMM be punished because 3 guys saw it differently from millions of others.

I'm not baiting you. I just find it laughable that you enter a fighter that you admit you watched some fights on YouTube and don't follow due to being at a lower weight, above the number 1 Middleweight on the planet.

You are lowering fighters on Who they have fought. So you don't rate PWill, Pavlik, Barker or Macklin.

You have Wlad K high enough based on dominating the Heavy scene but not who he's fought (do you need reminding who he has fought in the last 2 years)

Surely if Martinez gets dropped through the list due to the ochre he has taken then Wlad must be floating around the 50 Mark after the Mormeck fight.

You could argue that Wlads dealt with the majority of his challengers a lot more comfortably, than Martinez dealt with a similar standard of opponent in Macklin or Barker.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:I'm not baiting you. I just find it laughable that you enter a fighter that you admit you watched some fights on YouTube and don't follow due to being at a lower weight, above the number 1 Middleweight on the planet.

You are lowering fighters on Who they have fought. So you don't rate PWill, Pavlik, Barker or Macklin.

You have Wlad K high enough based on dominating the Heavy scene but not who he's fought (do you need reminding who he has fought in the last 2 years)

Surely if Martinez gets dropped through the list due to the ochre he has taken then Wlad must be floating around the 50 Mark after the Mormeck fight.

Interesting. How do you get to watch old timers? Time machine or you tube? How many times have some fighters been on UK tv?

Wlad has the longevity and dismantled everyone he's fought and hasn't looked like losing since his last loss. He's made the best available look even more average then they already are whereas Martinez has made average fighters look better (Macklin and Barker). Everyone here thought Haye would be a severe test for Wlad. I didn't for the simple reaso that Wlad is a very gifted boxer who is under-rated because of his dodgy chin (which is not as dodgy as made out). Martinez is over-rated because of the manner some fighters are ranked. Pav was made to look good because of Taylor (who wasn't that good) and PWil because of his height and he couldn't (or decided not to) utilise that to his advantage. A sign of a thick boxer.

The MW division is almost as poor as the HW division and I dont see Martinez standing head and shoulders above his division in the manner Wlad does over his.

azania wrote:[ Everyone here thought Haye would be a severe test for Wlad.

I didn't

azania wrote:Interesting. How do you get to watch old timers? Time machine or you tube? How many times have some fighters been on UK tv?

I know this wasn't addressed to me - but we should remember that you can watch OR read about old time fighters - you haven't done either for Wonjongkam.

azania wrote:The MW division is almost as poor as the HW division and I dont see Martinez standing head and shoulders above his division in the manner Wlad does over his.

Nobody wants to fight him.

He is by far the best MW in the world right now.

The two best middleweights in the world aside from Martinez have both been dealt with fairly comfortably as well as a pretty good light middleweight in Dzinziruk. It's easy to forget that Serhiy was considered to have the best jab on the planet but was comprehensively outjabbed by Martinez. Barker and Macklin get a lot of flack but are of a considerably higher standard than Mormeck.

No1Jonesy wrote:Top 4 SMW's - Ward, Froch, Kessler, Bute
 
Ward has beaten - Kessler and Froch
 
So unless your using this arguement just for the sake to disagree with Az which is highly understandable then its a bit of a numpty thing to say

Numpty a bit harsh...

First - I should remind us all here that we're discussing the top 10, pound for pound fighters in our sport today...

So denigrating or scorning any of the people on the list is pretty stupid. Hence the post where I pointed out that I'm not denigrating any of the above people's status (other than perhaps Wonjongkam, who did just get sparked by an unknown) - I'm reminding them of the reasons for Martinez' status.

Yes - Ward has beaten 2 of the top 4 SMWs - neither of whom would have been in a p4p list at the time - but still a great achievement - and if people were going to put him at 3 or 4 I wouldn't mock or scorn.

Martinez edged the first fight (personal opinion) - then comfortably beat Pavlik before stopping Martinez. Both Pavlik (fringe) and Williams (in) were p4p top 10 fighters AS well as divisional #1/2 fighters. That is an incredibly achievement - and that's why he gained p4p 3 status (as well as for KOing the unstoppable Dzinzruk).

Yes - Barker and Macklin were lacklustre performances - but both, in the end - were relatively comfortable wins. Sure - Macklin built up a points lead - but the way Martinez turned things around from the 7th showed a touch of class.

I'm reminding people that in beating his divisional rivals - Martinez has been beating p4p fighters as well. If you want to dock him places for 2 lackluster efforts - fine. I think its unfair - and Az's statements about him being not even close to p4p #3 are ridiculous.

I won't argue strongly if you want to put Ward or Marquez ahead of him - but it is still close.

It seems to be that as soon as a fighter loses he suddenly becomes rubbish. The Pacquiao scenario after Marquez has become somewhat excessive, he struggles with one fighter who happens to be a genuinely great boxer and his myth has suddenly been exposed.

I don't think Martinez is a great middleweight by any means but he's a very good one who has beaten 5 world level fighters in a row.