Munster v Leinster

First topic message reminder :

Here we go again.

Travelling in hope but not expectation. Would be great to win this one, but I would settle for a LBP and no (more) injuries.

Apparently there is hope on Mike Ross and Jamie Hagan. No word on White. They usually release an injury update on Mondays at lunchtime.

Don't fancy facing DuPreeyahhh and Botha with Jack McGrath at th. It was a credit to him as a first year LOOSE head prop that he did not get injured in those scrums against some serious experience and power

he's another of the un-pickables --- Leamy is ahead of him in the Irish set-up and as we know Leamy always gets picked regardless

Coughlan is the only 8 in the country bar Heaslip as well.. we are pretty scarce for 8s, but everyone is focused on the 7s..

rory what are you on about? we have so Many options for no.8... SOB's best postion for leinster last year was at no.8 POM is a no.8 converted to 7.ferris started off as a no.8...we also have ruddock who is a no.8 and we also have dominic ryan who had a wonderful season last season who can play in that position...so how exactly are we scarce fo 8's

LeinsterFan4life wrote:rory what are you on about? we have so Many options for no.8... SOB's best postion for leinster last year was at no.8 POM is a no.8 converted to 7.ferris started off as a no.8...we also have ruddock who is a no.8 and we also have dominic ryan who had a wonderful season last season who can play in that position...so how exactly are we scarce fo 8's

How many of those guys play 8 week in week out?

McGahan tried to promote him - but - whatever he seems to be on the list of unpickables - he should go off to England or France

Cr.p game. Leinster well deserving winners. Still a case that without one or two main players we are struggling. Earls, POM and Coughlan stood out defensively. POM saved a couple of certain tries slowing down the ball at the breakdown. But it was all a case of plugging the gaps. Zebo looked the only danger we had. Both backlines were guilty of lack of creativity with Leinster (given the ball they had) not doing anything except for Nacewa and after Earls was subbed.

Did we actually win one lineout all evening....it was the best attacking ploy by Leinster as Varley was attrocious..maybe MOD is past it but given he is one of the best lineout jumpers in Ireland I dont think Varley hit him once....scrum was an absolute joke...

Didnt see anything on the healy incident with POM....unlike the screaming l..yboys when Hayes was done I hope he doesnt get cited...

Also did we see a change of guard with Madigan being brought on for Sexton (who was average enough). Really rate Madigan and the cheeky drop goal was class.

Best Irish Back on display = Kearney.
Best Irish Forward = Nigel Owens.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:rory what are you on about? we have so Many options for no.8... SOB's best postion for leinster last year was at no.8 POM is a no.8 converted to 7.ferris started off as a no.8...we also have ruddock who is a no.8 and we also have dominic ryan who had a wonderful season last season who can play in that position...so how exactly are we scarce fo 8's

Leamy has 30+ international caps at No. 8. He has won 1 heineken Cups playing No. 6 and his 2nd one playing at 8. His first full season at Munster he played No. 7 including starting there in the heineken cup (David Wallace was injured).

Great bench cover. Hopefully his hip operation will see him being able to play without pain in future.

Sin é...must admit am concerned for next weekend. The team is definitely a momentum/confidence team and the four HC games after Christmas were what got them going....definitely need DR, POC and Murray back...

BTW....I thoroughly enjoyed the Cork Minors getting a decent run out today in Semple....

Leamy is more experienced than any other option at 8 bar Heaslip, but I don't think that is a good thing..

DOD wrote:Sin é...must admit am concerned for next weekend. The team is definitely a momentum/confidence team and the four HC games after Christmas were what got them going....definitely need DR, POC and Murray back...

BTW....I thoroughly enjoyed the Cork Minors getting a decent run out today in Semple....

We're pretty finished if those 3 don't make it back. Still, we haven't done too bad considering we've lost a whole backrow of Leamy, Wally & Ronan.

Good game alright in Thurles. Nice to hear that the league isn't beneath the Cork supporters nowadays and are turning up in numbers. Just shows what someone with a bit of magic about them can do.

PS - our team is hardly full of senior citizens - about 8 of them won minor all irelands 18 months ago.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Leamy is more experienced than any other option at 8 bar Heaslip, but I don't think that is a good thing..

Why is that a problem? Leamy does the bench. Heaslip starts. If there is an No. 8 around - they only have to be slightly better than Heislip (and that shouldn't be hard )

Sin é wrote:

Good game alright in Thurles. Nice to hear that the league isn't beneath the Cork supporters nowadays and are turning up in numbers. Just shows what someone with a bit of magic about them can do.

PS - our team is hardly full of senior citizens - about 8 of them won minor all irelands 18 months ago.

All Cork people want is a team that is trying their best, and didnt you know JBM can walk on water...a decent showing in the championship is all that is expected this summer...

Whats the story with Wally for next weekend - is he going to play? If not it will be Ryan at 6 (which considering how the Saints game went isnt a bad option). Would nearly prefer Sherry to start instead of Varley...backline was good - enough - (dont know what the story is on Hurley either)...

getting out of touch in my old age...

Well, regardless of whether I think Leamy is good or not, he has been out of action for a long time and we have many back rowers available, and an under performing Heaslip. You would think another decent 8 would have experience and challenge Heaslip at this point..

Sin - From what I can gather POC and Ryan are in the frame for next weekend with Murray more of a doubt.

I guess Wally is a non starter after crying off last night. No news on Hurley though (I heard he cried off as well)

we have plenty of top players that can replace heaslip

Re Leamy I just say what I see actually happens

McGahan in the press I read said Kidney should have taken Coughlan to the WC - I'm guessing one of the reasons McGahan is going is that he has felt under pressure to pick the players Ireland wanted him to pick - I notice that lately and since Munster started picking up he has gone outside the Ireland fold - and has obviously been on the way out himself

As for Heaslip my perception is that since that injury last year he hasn't been the same player - but - once you are on the Ireland team it's very difficult to get off it

Croyman wrote:
As for Heaslip my perception is that since that injury last year he hasn't been the same player - but - once you are on the Ireland team it's very difficult to get off it

I agree with that. He's been below par for a long time down.

I think this is major reason Sean O'Brien is struggling to shine this year too. Heaslip just isn't posing the same threat with the ball and its allowing defence to target O'Brien.

No 8 is becoming a problem. Coughlan is probably the form 8 at the minute but is the wrong side of 30 as is Roger Wilson who some think will come back into the frame next season. Leamy is nowhere near the level needed and isn't even Rabo standard.

Unless Ruddock comes good the options are thin on the ground.

I thought Heaslip had a very good game on Saturday. He carried well and tidied up a lot of loose ball.

He had one of his better games Mick but hes still a shadow of the player he was 12 months ago.

Interesting that Heaslip seems to play best when his place is under threat: Last season when O'brien was playing so well at 8 and then in 2009 when people though Kidney would drop him for Leamy.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:rory what are you on about? we have so Many options for no.8... SOB's best postion for leinster last year was at no.8 POM is a no.8 converted to 7.ferris started off as a no.8...we also have ruddock who is a no.8 and we also have dominic ryan who had a wonderful season last season who can play in that position...so how exactly are we scarce fo 8's

Ferris has not played 8 since school afaik. (Ulster lads may be able to contradict me here) 8 is definitely O'Brien's worst position. He had a fantastic season last year and a couple of HC games at 8 when Heaslip was injured. The fact that he did well was because he is an excellent and versatile player who was having an incredible season.
Ruddock is muck at 8. I have never seen or heard of Ryan playing 8, he is struggling for form at the moment and nowhere near an international cap.

I have not seen enough of O'Mahony at 8 to argue either way.

You have to go back as far as Roger Wilson to get a dedicated 8. He is the classic "Very good player but not quite international class"

Wally is finished as far as I can see. (very sadly, one of my favourite players)

No one else can touch the 3 starting Ireland back rows for class and talent. O'Mahony may well be the closest.

If Ruddock is muck at 8 then we are fecked.

We have an underperforming Heaslip at 28 backed up by three 30 something journey men, albeit very good ones in Coughlan, Wilson and Leamy.

roddersm wrote:If Ruddock is muck at 8 then we are fecked.

We have an underperforming Heaslip at 28 backed up by three 30 something journey men, albeit very good ones in Coughlan, Wilson and Leamy.

Underperforming is much easier to fix than being a journeyman. Heaslip had his 1st injury of his pro career, and has not been at quite the same level since. But I think his underperforming has been over hyped. He has still played well enough to keep the Leinster and Ireland 8 jersey. (No quips about how hard it is to lose an Ireland spot)

If he was out. O'Brien would move to 8. But he doesn't have the smarts in the position that Heaslip does, despite being a fabulous player.

If Ruddock starts at 8 for Ireland......Then we ARE focked.

I don't think Heaslips underperforming has been over hyped, its been there for all to see.

I think Ferris and O'Brien have been carrying him for Ireland and apart from a 2 month spell last season hes been below par for 2 seasons.

Thats a very long dip and form, and at what point do you just say that hes not as good as he was?

Its been a long time since we've seen a rampaging dominant Heaslip. Last March against England is his last big game for Ireland.

I would also say that if we need a different type of number 8 pick a different type of player there. Heaslips strenght has always been his running ball in hand.

Heaslip (running with ball in hand)
O'Brien ( breaking through with ball in hand)
Ferris (crashing into and through with ball in hand)

Ireland (scant use of dynamic forwards running with ball in hand)

POM played 8 a lot, and was captain of the irish U20s team at 8, but he seems to be pushed into 7 now. The times I have seen him at 8 he has been very good, but the problem I have with him at 8 is he needs to bulk up significantly.

If any player is moving out of position to 8, my vote would be Ferris. Best ball carrier we have.

Heaslip has a better game on Saturday night. Lets hope he carrys on in the same vein v Cardiff. He has been below par for Ireland in particular the last year or so.

Munster lads - I dont think TOL was that bad to be honest. Murray is better for sure but i think getting Ryan and POC back is more important. Could make a case for starting Sherry aswell. Varley had a poor game and the lineout was a mess. It all depends on how Ulster cope in a game of this magnitude in Thomond. Will they show up? They do not have a great away record in the HC and winning in Thomond is a massive ask. If all goes well for them they have the players to do it but im not sure they will

As for Leinster game - by all accounts Cardiff are a shambles at the moment. They do have a very good backline however and if they get a platform and frustrate us they could be dangerous. Their supporters do not seem to expect anything from this and morale is low. They have nothing to lose though and im a bit nervous about being such red hot favourites.

I think Leinster have gotten over the complacency state - the loss to Ospreys was the best preparation they could have (to kill that bloody games winning sequence record), added to the poor performance against Aironi...

I don't know what to expect from Cardiff but I know Leinster will fight as tough as they possibly can for this one. I don't think you could say the same about last weekend's game - either for Munster or Leinster.

Good point Fly.

I'm going to be screaming for Sarries like a mad thing too.

One of the things that Leinster were able to do that Munster just weren't was to go through phases that were going forward. It made us much more potent than them and then we also had good starter moves off the lineout. Did Munster make a linebreak?

jennifer... o'briens best position is 8 and his worst position is 7...he played his best rugby last year in the no.8 jersey.

Clontorf 47-18 Garryowen.
St. Mary's 21-20 Cork Con

Its all down to Us and Mary's now for the Title.

De Easht is Awake!

How bout that Shane Jennings eh?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:jennifer... o'briens best position is 8 and his worst position is 7...he played his best rugby last year in the no.8 jersey.

In your opinion.. O'Brien himself would disagree with you, as he says he is more comfortable at 6 or 7.

Gibson wrote:How bout that Shane Jennings eh?

I love Jennings, he reminds me so much of Paddy Wallace ... all class, just like with Paddy it takes a real cultured rugby fan to appreciate what he offers.

Fair comment Rodders. Specially after my WUMing on Sat night. Fueled by a few bevs and Leinster man-shaming Munster in their house.

Yes, Paddy is as important to Ulster, as Jenno is to Leinster. It's true. Both top and vital provincial players. If not for Ireland and the way we play.

No SOB at 7, in a key game that eases us nicely into the run-in. Jenno ran the show.

Any comments from the SOB is a better 7 crew?

Only messing Gibson ...... I'm in WUM mode this week with the HEC QFs coming up.....

Man its going to hot up here this week, between Ulster & Munster. At least ye lot have each other to WUM. But I dont feel like wumming with Blues fans who have all but given up any hope.

Like kicking a man when he's down. Cant do that.

I dont think its going to be easy. We must focus or it could all go wrong.

Here's my team for Blues... for what its worth.

15. Kearney
14. Nacewa
13. BOD
12. Darcy (Watched the game sober since. He played well, carried well and broke the line more often than not) McFadden is slowly turning the screw on him with every appearance though. It wont be long.
11. Fitzgerald
10. Sexton
9. Reddan

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Thorn
5. Cullen
6. SOB
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip.

The bench picks itself. Toner and Madigan are starting to show serious intent. All good.

Sexton will wear the 12 shirt when Darcy is done. Not McFadden.

Nah Stag. Sexton is Ireland's and Leinster's no. 1 Standoff, leading up to the Lions and the RWC. Its a done deal.

Young Madigan is not bad tho eh?

McFadden just has to keep playing as he is and he will replace Dorce. Looking for O Malley or Fitz (if he stays) to replace BOD.

Madigan is a significantly better flyhalf (potential wise) than Sexton is.

Replacing BOD will be the tough one for Leinster.

Can Madigan play in midfield? He looks to have electric pace.

He's way to feicin talented for the bench thats for sure.

We know for a fact Sexton can do it. He has delivered at 12 against Australia, England and Italy for Ireland.

Put Madigan at 10 and him at 12. He also has the defence to play there.

I’ve said it before and been laughed at but what about Madigan at 9?

Unreal passer of the ball, great at making breaks, good kicker, good vision etc.

Why stick to the Irish paradigm of having 9’s who are 9’s and 10’s who are 10’s when you look at the French or even Saffers. Pienaar can seamlessly slip between 9 and 10, maybe Madigan could fill the same role….?

Not a bad move Mick.

Though the Irish paradigm seems to be that we want 9s who are flankers, 10s who are goal kickers and 15s who are GAA players.

i think its a great shout mick. bit leftfield but he has the skillsets. he has real gas alright.

i have yet to see Sexton play a key role in a team in attacking mode from the 12 jersey. all of his cameos have been when we ireland are looking to close the game out ie rog at 10 and both him and sexton booting the ball 60 yards down the pitch.

Gibson wrote:Man its going to hot up here this week, between Ulster & Munster. At least ye lot have each other to WUM. But I dont feel like wumming with Blues fans who have all but given up any hope.

Like kicking a man when he's down. Cant do that.

I dont think its going to be easy. We must focus or it could all go wrong.

Here's my team for Blues... for what its worth.

15. Kearney
14. Nacewa
13. BOD
12. Darcy (Watched the game sober since. He played well, carried well and broke the line more often than not) McFadden is slowly turning the screw on him with every appearance though. It wont be long.
11. Fitzgerald
10. Sexton
9. Reddan

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Thorn
5. Cullen
6. SOB
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip.

The bench picks itself. Toner and Madigan are starting to show serious intent. All good.

You're definitely not related to Johnny so : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U227_GpgO0

red_stag wrote:Not a bad move Mick.

Though the Irish paradigm seems to be that we want 9s who are flankers, 10s who are goal kickers and 15s who are GAA players.

Ha yeah, that’s more accurate.

I don’t see Sexton as a 12 though. As Dave says we’ve only seen him there when we’re trying to close out the game. We’ve yet to see any indication that he can attack or influence attack from there.

Mickado wrote:
Why stick to the Irish paradigm of having 9’s who are 9’s and 10’s who are 10’s when you look at the French or even Saffers. Pienaar can seamlessly slip between 9 and 10, maybe Madigan could fill the same role….?

Thats not strictly true. Pienaar is an infinitely better 9 than 10 and in France its traditionally the 9 who directs everything rather than the 10, hence some of the scrumhalves can move to 10.

I think if Madigan or Sexton move its out one position rather than in. Personally I think Madigan would be a fantastic centre and could move in later in his career like Dan Carter did.

Yes, in France, "Le general" is the 9, he is the playmaker, in most other NH countries it's the out-half.

Madigan at 12 would be a good shout for Leinster anyway, gets him the game-time he deserves, and it means no D'Arcy.

haha. the old mafi incident.

how i see it is sexton should have been binned for retaliation but i do not blame him at all for lashing out at Mafi who has made numerous attempts to seriously injure at least 3 of his team mates.

gibbo id go with that team also. darcy thought not the player he was never looks as bad in a team who have a clear attacking pattern.

i thought sexton took the ball too far behind the gainline against Munster. need him to mix things up a little