Blindside Choices of the Home Nations?

Lets look at who the board rate as the best Blindsides possible suggestions for the Lions next year.

Pick TWO Blindsides from the Poll below.

Ferris to start with Lydiate on the bench. simple.

Or how about the Six Nations player of the tournament and form 6 in the world atm starts with the frankly underperforming Ferris on the bench.

Ferris is not underperforming. Lydiate gets through a huge amount of work but Ferris is the better player

The only thing Ferris does better is ball carrying. Lydiate's excels further in every other facet of play and also works well with Warburton who is a shoein for Lions openside.

Looseheaded wrote:The only thing Ferris does better is ball carrying. Lydiate's excels further in every other facet of play and also works well with Warburton who is a shoein for Lions openside.

Even though Ferris has a significantly higher tackle count (excluding the first game) and carried a whole lot more? And Lydiate excels in every other facet of play? Yeah, right.

genuinely shocked that Lydiate is in last position

Agreed Rory, Ferris is a monster and not only carries and tackles better but also can slow down opposition ball if he wants to.

I'm amazed that it's not a Lydiate/Ferris pairing leading the votes. I know I personally rate Lydiate higher than Ferris but can understand people preferring the Irishman. However him being in last place truly does hsow how people go for national allegiance rather than actually recognising rugby skill

Can't pick Ferris: He has a bad finger, eh?

Although Ferris is the better player and should start, can't see why Lydiate is not 2nd behind him. Only rival is Croft and lets face it, he should be a winger

Looseheaded wrote:I'm amazed that it's not a Lydiate/Ferris pairing leading the votes. I know I personally rate Lydiate higher than Ferris but can understand people preferring the Irishman. However him being in last place truly does hsow how people go for national allegiance rather than actually recognising rugby skill

I realise you personally rate Lydiate higher, but how does this;

"Lydiate excels further in every other facet of play"

Make any sense? Especially after I just pointed out Ferris made a heck of a lot more tackles and carries that Lydiate.

Lydiate then Ferris.

Rory where did you get your stats from ?

Cymroglan wrote:Rory where did you get your stats from ?

ESPN. Ignoring the first game as Lydiate didn't play.

And what were the tackle missed ?

Plus I think there was a thread about back row statistics not too long ago, after the 6 nations. You can find them there.

Cymroglan wrote:And what were the tackle missed ?

I'll check.

You will find several sources showing stats and all of them will be different.
Stats don't tell the whole story especially if one side is doing all the attacking while another side just defends for 80 min.

They only gave Lydiate best player of the tornument because they couldnt give it to warburton so they just went to the nearest guy. Yes he got through alot of work but isnt near Ferris.

Lydiate tackles made/tackles missed: 43/2

Ferris tackles made/tackles missed (ignoring first game): 55/2

Cymroglan wrote:You will find several sources showing stats and all of them will be different.
Stats don't tell the whole story especially if one side is doing all the attacking while another side just defends for 80 min.

Yeah I have heard that one before, but Ferris made 18 tackles in the Scotland game only where Ireland had a lot of ball..

Plus, Faletau, playing for the same team of course, made a huge amount of tackles himself..

Ferris is under preforming and Lydiate is better than Ferris in every facet of the game bar ball carrying? And then you give out about peoples opinion being skewed because of national allegiance?

I'd agree that Lydiate should be higher in the poll, but no way is he better than Ferris. Why are welsh people insulted when you don't say they're the best in every position? It doesn't mean that he's a bad player, in fact, he's a very good player. Just not as good as Ferris.

I rate him higher than Ferris due to his superior tackling. It's Lydiate's fearless tackling that makes life easier for our 7s.

Yeah but Lydiate dosent have the big hitting ability. Ferris does.

Cymroglan wrote:I rate him higher than Ferris due to his superior tackling. It's Lydiate's fearless tackling that makes life easier for our 7s.

I just gave you stats that suggest Ferris is the superior tackler, so what are you basing that assumption on? Plus if the stats don't tickle your fancy, just watch the hits that Ferris makes for Ireland. They often knock the opposition back, making life easier for the whole team..

I've missed a lot, and will refrain from backdating the debate. DrSam, big hitting isn't necessarily better, I'd take linespeed over it as it will still keep them behind the gainline but doesn't run the risk of players going in for massive hits and being ducked out of. As I've said, both are good players, but I think lydiate is just the better player. Depends on what you want from your six.

Well, apparently Ferris does what Lydiate is best at, better. Tackling.

Ferris as you can see from the stats rarely misses and hits harder then Lydiate. I'm sorry but Ferris is just superior.

No you gave me a stat that he made more tackles during this six nations.
There could be several reasons for that and one of them being he was forced to do more than his fair share of tackling.
The stats do not show the quality of the tackling or do they say if the tackle resulted in a turnover.
Of course Ferris is a quality player who is far more experienced than Lydiate,but I believe that in time Lydiate will become the more accomplished player.

But why start an as you say less accomplished player to start over a more accomplished one. Dosent make sense, Ferris wins.

Cymroglan wrote:No you gave me a stat that he made more tackles during this six nations.
There could be several reasons for that and one of them being he was forced to do more than his fair share of tackling.
The stats do not show the quality of the tackling or do they say if the tackle resulted in a turnover.
Of course Ferris is a quality player who is far more experienced than Lydiate,but I believe that in time Lydiate will become the more accomplished player.

Yes, stats that shown he made more tackles and missed the same amount during the 6 nations, suggesting based on current form he is the better tackler.. I am yet to see evidence that Lydiate is the better tackler. He is a great tackler himself, but not as good as Ferris. The quality of tackling and tackling resulting in a turnover, that goes both ways. Plus Ireland made the most turnovers this 6 nations..

drsambo1928 wrote:But why start an as you say less accomplished player to start over a more accomplished one. Dosent make sense, Ferris wins.

I did not say he was less accomplished I simply said he will become more accomplished.

In response to Barclay, Brown, Croft and Robshaw being possible selections, I think not. Barclay,Robshaw and Brown have nothing on Ferris or Lydiate or even Croft. Croft would be next in if Ferris or Lydiate got injured although I would'nt be happy about it. I dont think he knows the 6's job and just decides to play as a winger.

Cymroglan wrote:

drsambo1928 wrote:But why start an as you say less accomplished player to start over a more accomplished one. Dosent make sense, Ferris wins.

I did not say he was less accomplished I simply said he will become more accomplished.

Well surley he is less accomplished compared to Ferris if he still has to be more accomplished

Ferris would be my automatic choice, there really isnt a facet of play win which he is second best. Lydiate would be a wonderful alternative provided he is teamed with the right no8 and openside, whereas Brown would be a more like4like replacement for Ferris's allround capabilities

Can Sean O'Brien be considered as a six?

I would wonder if Ferris' knee holds up till then, he isn't going to last forever like. Lydiate is a clostr second to 1F assuming Ferris is fully operational.

Or what about Tom Wood?

Personally for the Lions, I'd take Wood as 6/7 cover, 3rd choice for both

drsambo1928 wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:

drsambo1928 wrote:But why start an as you say less accomplished player to start over a more accomplished one. Dosent make sense, Ferris wins.

I did not say he was less accomplished I simply said he will become more accomplished.

Well surley he is less accomplished compared to Ferris if he still has to be more accomplished

Could they not be equal ? You need to stop being on the defensive. They are both quality players and both will probably get selected but of the two I personally think Lydiate is better and will continue getting better.
I respect your view on Ferris and fully understand why you consider him to be better.

Yeah, Wood popped into my mind just there. He played well in last years 6 nations so why not.

Cymroglan wrote:

drsambo1928 wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:

drsambo1928 wrote:But why start an as you say less accomplished player to start over a more accomplished one. Dosent make sense, Ferris wins.

I did not say he was less accomplished I simply said he will become more accomplished.

Well surley he is less accomplished compared to Ferris if he still has to be more accomplished

Could they not be equal ? You need to stop being on the defensive. They are both quality players and both will probably get selected but of the two I personally think Lydiate is better and will continue getting better.
I respect your view on Ferris and fully understand why you consider him to be better.

I'm not on the defensive, I just feel Ferris is better then Lydiate and should start. Ofcourse they'll both be selected in the squad, their both the best the Lions nations have to offer.

drsambo1928 wrote:Of course they'll both be selected in the squad, their both the best the Lions nations have to offer.

The vote at the moment shows how many people do not rate Lydiate at all. He and Barclay who is predominantly an openside anyway are propping up the bottom of the table.

Tom Croft 17% [ 16 ]
Chris Robshaw 14% [ 13 ]
Stephen Ferris 25% [ 23 ]
John Barclay 11% [ 11 ]
Kelly Brown 19% [ 18 ]
Daniel Lydiate 11% [ 11 ]


The discussion above seems very un-objective. With little to reasoning for other candidates larger support.

Croft was always electric & great in the line out now he has added hard graft in & around the breakdown.
He has more dimensions to his game than the others.

Ferris close second with strength and grunt & very consistent.

These 2 have an X factor the others dont. Real potential game changers. Rather than great engines & tacklers like Robshaw & Lydiate. Robshawe has good leadership though.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Croft was always electric & great in the line out now he has added hard graft in & around the breakdown.
He has more dimensions to his game than the others.

Ferris close second with strength and grunt & very consistent.

These 2 have an X factor the others dont. Real potential game changers. Rather than great engines & tacklers like Robshaw & Lydiate. Robshawe has good leadership though.

Tom Croft lacks consistency, he is very good for one or two matches then has several anonymous matches and all the England fans want him dropped. It happened just now in the Six Nations.

He does have pace, he is a good player, he would make a great openside, if he did more work at the ruck and got some turn overs.

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Croft was always electric & great in the line out now he has added hard graft in & around the breakdown.
He has more dimensions to his game than the others.

Ferris close second with strength and grunt & very consistent.

These 2 have an X factor the others dont. Real potential game changers. Rather than great engines & tacklers like Robshaw & Lydiate. Robshawe has good leadership though.

Tom Croft lacks consistency, he is very good for one or two matches then has several anonymous matches and all the England fans want him dropped. It happened just now in the Six Nations.

He does have pace, he is a good player, he would make a great openside, if he did more work at the ruck and got some turn overs.

I believe Croft is becoming more consistent - played very well for the Tigers on Friday & does things that other BSs don't or can't. On the dry surfaces in Oz & SA he will always be a threat. He proved that for the Lions previously and he is now getting to that level again.
Ferris is different and would be used in a different way depending on opposition, gameplan, surface.

These 2 have stand out qualities for me & most other posters possibly?

Stephen Ferris because he's the best 6 by a country mile and Dan Lydiate because a lot of people say hes good and does a lot of unseen stuff....I haven't seen what it is yet though .

Croft no thanks Paddy Wallace threw him about like a rag doll at Ravenhill.

I'd be tempted to take Sean O'Brien to cover 6.

And then he went and outplayed Ferris for England against Ireland so I guess Ferris shouldn't be picked either then if we are basing out choices on one game, eh Roddersm?

He gives you a completely different dimension and even coming off the bench, if we are chasing the game, he would be invaluable. He showed how good he can be on the last Lions tour and then again against France and Ireland more recently and his performances are getting more and more consistent.