Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
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beshocked
RuggerRadge2611
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The Bachelor
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Geordie
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bluestonevedder
Sgt_Pooly
bedfordwelsh
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dummy_half
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rodders
Mad for Chelsea
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38 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Number 8
Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Lets look at who the board rate as the best Number 8s possible suggestions for the Lions next year.
Pick two Number 8s from the Poll below.
Pick two Number 8s from the Poll below.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Glyncorrwg
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
interesting one this:
Morgan is a fine prospect, but seems to struggle to play 80 minutes of high intensity test rugby as of yet.
Dowson will most certainly not go, he offers versatility but if that's what we're after O'Brien is a much much better choice.
Heaslip was out of form this 6N, but is a very fine player. Indeed, probably the best player on that list.
Denton had a great start to the 6Ns but faded away (then again so did Scotland).
Faletau was consistently good to very good, but doesn't offer the same carrying threat the others do IMO.
In the end I went with Morgan and Heaslip, but I'd be happy with any of the options there (except Dowson).
Morgan is a fine prospect, but seems to struggle to play 80 minutes of high intensity test rugby as of yet.
Dowson will most certainly not go, he offers versatility but if that's what we're after O'Brien is a much much better choice.
Heaslip was out of form this 6N, but is a very fine player. Indeed, probably the best player on that list.
Denton had a great start to the 6Ns but faded away (then again so did Scotland).
Faletau was consistently good to very good, but doesn't offer the same carrying threat the others do IMO.
In the end I went with Morgan and Heaslip, but I'd be happy with any of the options there (except Dowson).
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
Join date : 2011-02-11
Age : 36
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Denton and Faletau on form.
I'd be tempted to bring Heaslip for his big match experience but for me his form isn't good enough right now.
Sean O'Brien can cover 8 as well.
I'd be tempted to bring Heaslip for his big match experience but for me his form isn't good enough right now.
Sean O'Brien can cover 8 as well.
rodders- Moderator
- Posts : 25501
Join date : 2011-05-20
Age : 43
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
I don't think Dowson should be in this poll. He's not an 8, but a flanker who plays at the back of the scrum in an emergency, and by next year the recovered Crane & Fearns will be in the EPS in his stead.
alcoombe- Posts : 242
Join date : 2011-06-11
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
On form, Morgan and Denton.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 32
Location : Belfast
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Certainly a position of potential strength for the Lions, and I can make a case for any of the four first choice starters.
Morgan is the closest thing to a modern Scott Quinnell - big, strong and surprisingly quick. Powerful in contact and with a good off-load. There are legitimate questions about his stamina, although he seems to be improving even over the course of the 6Ns. I'm also yet to be convinced about his work at the breakdown, where I'd certainly rate Heaslip and Faletau ahead of him, and his relative lack of height makes him less of a lineout option that the others.
Denton is more like Dallaglio - not quite so bulky as Morgan but fast and powerful as a ball carrier and a big tackler. Again, maybe his work at the breakdown is less effective than Heaslip and Faletau.
Faletau for me is a guy who is very solid at all the elements of a number 8's game but perhaps without any one thing being outstanding.
Heaslip has always impressed me again as a solid all-rounder and with very good hands, but he hasn't shown outstanding form this year in an Ireland side that seemed a bit short of ideas (if hoofing the ball up in the air didn't work).
As we're going to Australia, I think conditions would suit Denton's athleticism. Second choice is really any of the other three - depends a bit on the gameplan and on the balance of the back row. For example, I think Morgan would work well will Warburton and Lydiate or Ferris whereas Faletau or Heaslip would be better options if Croft is playing at 6.
Morgan is the closest thing to a modern Scott Quinnell - big, strong and surprisingly quick. Powerful in contact and with a good off-load. There are legitimate questions about his stamina, although he seems to be improving even over the course of the 6Ns. I'm also yet to be convinced about his work at the breakdown, where I'd certainly rate Heaslip and Faletau ahead of him, and his relative lack of height makes him less of a lineout option that the others.
Denton is more like Dallaglio - not quite so bulky as Morgan but fast and powerful as a ball carrier and a big tackler. Again, maybe his work at the breakdown is less effective than Heaslip and Faletau.
Faletau for me is a guy who is very solid at all the elements of a number 8's game but perhaps without any one thing being outstanding.
Heaslip has always impressed me again as a solid all-rounder and with very good hands, but he hasn't shown outstanding form this year in an Ireland side that seemed a bit short of ideas (if hoofing the ball up in the air didn't work).
As we're going to Australia, I think conditions would suit Denton's athleticism. Second choice is really any of the other three - depends a bit on the gameplan and on the balance of the back row. For example, I think Morgan would work well will Warburton and Lydiate or Ferris whereas Faletau or Heaslip would be better options if Croft is playing at 6.
dummy_half- Posts : 6483
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 52
Location : East Hertfordshire
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Denton and Faletau.
Artful_Dodger- Posts : 4260
Join date : 2011-05-31
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
I only picked one - Denton. Right now, I don't think number 8 is a big area of strength. But, a year from now, it might be if Morgan and Faletau continue to develop.
doctor_grey- Posts : 12279
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
I'm also going with Morgan and Denton on form.
Heaslip on his best form, however would be ahead of both.
Heaslip on his best form, however would be ahead of both.
wickedwasp- Posts : 303
Join date : 2011-05-20
Location : What day is it today?
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Faletau only 3rd? Hard call though, went with Faletau and Morgan, because I think Denton might end up playing 6 Internationally
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
I went for Faletau and Heaslip.
But with the exception of Dowson I think any of the others could well go as first choice.
Faletau is talented beyong belief and has fantastic hands and vision.
Heaslip on form is the best my country mile but has been off form or was for IReland.
Morgan is your typical barnstorming No8 but can he last a full 80 high intensity.
Dneton has burst onto the scene so lets see how he goes on tour and in the AIs
But with the exception of Dowson I think any of the others could well go as first choice.
Faletau is talented beyong belief and has fantastic hands and vision.
Heaslip on form is the best my country mile but has been off form or was for IReland.
Morgan is your typical barnstorming No8 but can he last a full 80 high intensity.
Dneton has burst onto the scene so lets see how he goes on tour and in the AIs
bedfordwelsh- Moderator
- Posts : 9962
Join date : 2011-05-11
Age : 56
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Heaslip not looked great for a long time.
I'd go Morgan + Faletau although SOB would allow one of these to be dropped as he offers excellent backrow cover.
I'd go Morgan + Faletau although SOB would allow one of these to be dropped as he offers excellent backrow cover.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
Join date : 2011-04-27
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Sgt
Remember it's likely to be about a 37 player squad, so there's scope to take 2 specialists for each back row position with at least one extra - SOB would be a very good candidate for this position, being in the squad almost as a specialist replacement because of his proven ability to cover all three back row spots.
I reckon Croft or Ryan Jones has a chance of being in the squad as well as cover for both 2nd row and back row positions.
Remember it's likely to be about a 37 player squad, so there's scope to take 2 specialists for each back row position with at least one extra - SOB would be a very good candidate for this position, being in the squad almost as a specialist replacement because of his proven ability to cover all three back row spots.
I reckon Croft or Ryan Jones has a chance of being in the squad as well as cover for both 2nd row and back row positions.
dummy_half- Posts : 6483
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 52
Location : East Hertfordshire
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
I'd go with Morgan and Faletau. Both very impressive players, but quite different as well.
@Dummy_half, agree regarding SOB- he's the perfect backrow cover option, and adds real go forward in attack. Superb player.
Also, Ryan jones has been impressive recently, and I thought he had a very good 6N. Seems that he's very much a utility forward now, since the Welsh backrow is very settled, but he's too good to leave out! Very happy for him that he's re-found some form.
@Dummy_half, agree regarding SOB- he's the perfect backrow cover option, and adds real go forward in attack. Superb player.
Also, Ryan jones has been impressive recently, and I thought he had a very good 6N. Seems that he's very much a utility forward now, since the Welsh backrow is very settled, but he's too good to leave out! Very happy for him that he's re-found some form.
bluestonevedder- Posts : 3952
Join date : 2011-08-22
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
For me its Denton and faletau. I think both bring different strengths but both are pretty awesome
mckay1402- Posts : 2512
Join date : 2011-04-27
Age : 47
Location : Market Harborough
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Faletau, Morgan, Denton. I suppose Toby can cover 7 for the Lions of necesary.
Morgannwg- Posts : 6338
Join date : 2011-10-10
Location : Bristol - Newport
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Personally I don't think Jones is of the standard required. Morgan + Faletau with SOB utility is my shout then.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
Join date : 2011-04-27
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Pitty Faletau didnt get to showcase his form for the Dragons before the 6nations, he was absolutely ridiculous for a few games, I think back-to-back MOTM performances.
Guest- Guest
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Faletau and Heaslip are my choices. Heaslip has been number one for five years. A great player, recent dip for Ireland but performs well for Leinster.
Faletau is the Heir apparent. A fantastic talent so young and has already shown such a fantastic natural ability.
I imagine Heaslip to start the first test but for Faletau to oust him through the series.
Denton showed greet form for the scots. Let's hope he continues to show better and better performances and maybe he will make the team too.
Faletau is the Heir apparent. A fantastic talent so young and has already shown such a fantastic natural ability.
I imagine Heaslip to start the first test but for Faletau to oust him through the series.
Denton showed greet form for the scots. Let's hope he continues to show better and better performances and maybe he will make the team too.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Glyncorrwg
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Denton all arms and legs
Morgan will go just because of his bulk
Toby - hmm... Not sure if he's the best 8 but I have a feeling he'll go
Morgan will go just because of his bulk
Toby - hmm... Not sure if he's the best 8 but I have a feeling he'll go
slartibartfast- Posts : 824
Join date : 2011-09-26
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
If Crane can come back fit and flying then Morgan could have a battle just for his England spot...then we'll see if Fearns is a real deal challenger aswell...
Morgans fitness will improve more and more...and he is a serious prospect...
Wasnt Crane Lancasters captain at Saxons level?
Anyway id go Denton and Morgan...
Morgans fitness will improve more and more...and he is a serious prospect...
Wasnt Crane Lancasters captain at Saxons level?
Anyway id go Denton and Morgan...
Geordie- Posts : 28849
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
It's gotta be Heaslip and Faletau. Who starts depends on Heaslip's form. Faletau is mr.consistent and he will start if Heaslip has another poor season. Morgan, while I was impressed by him, I feel as if he will be outshone next year and may turn out to be a one hit wonder. However I could be completely wrong and he could have another great season.
drsambo1928- Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-03-30
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Heaslip for his ability and experience, Denton for his superb MOM performances in a struggling Scottish pack, and Ben Morgan for his bulk and barmstorming runs.
Faletau is very close, and could easily slip in to start but I feel his performances dipped against quality opposition over the last 9 months
Faletau is very close, and could easily slip in to start but I feel his performances dipped against quality opposition over the last 9 months
flyhalffactory- Posts : 3297
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
flyhalffactory wrote:Heaslip for his ability and experience, Denton for his superb MOM performances in a struggling Scottish pack, and Ben Morgan for his bulk and barmstorming runs.
Faletau is very close, and could easily slip in to start but I feel his performances dipped against quality opposition over the last 9 months
I agree with your view on Heaslip but not Denton. Denton played well against England but slipped off against everyone else. Ben Morgan could be there if injury hit Faletau or the Heas.
drsambo1928- Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-03-30
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Can you provide any evidence for this claim regarding Denton or is it just something that you 'observed'? Seems to have been missed by most other posters on here if the current standings in the poll are anything to go by, particularly impressive when you consider the paucity of Scots on here?drsambo1928 wrote:flyhalffactory wrote:Heaslip for his ability and experience, Denton for his superb MOM performances in a struggling Scottish pack, and Ben Morgan for his bulk and barmstorming runs.
Faletau is very close, and could easily slip in to start but I feel his performances dipped against quality opposition over the last 9 months
I agree with your view on Heaslip but not Denton. Denton played well against England but slipped off against everyone else. Ben Morgan could be there if injury hit Faletau or the Heas.
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
Join date : 2011-03-26
Age : 112
Location : Devon/London
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Faletau is almost a certain for me. Shaun Edwards will probably be defence coach, which means he'll want the best tackling number 8 to go, and that means Toby.
jay_welsh- Posts : 51
Join date : 2011-08-14
Age : 35
Location : Wales
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Some of the 6N stats (here, courtesy of the Telegraph) showed very little to choose between Denton and Faletau - especially in attack:
Defenders Beaten
1 Wesley Fofana France 16
2 Robert Kearney Ireland 15
2 George North Wales 15
4 Alex Cuthbert Wales 14
5 Leigh Halfpenny Wales 11
6 Dave Denton Scotland 9
6 Toby Faletau Wales 9
8 Stuart Hogg Scotland 8
Carries
1 Dave Denton Scotland 65
2 Toby Faletau Wales 59
2 Sean Lamont Scotland 59
I think what they also demonstrate is very little evidence for Denton having "slipped off", whatever that may mean.
Defenders Beaten
1 Wesley Fofana France 16
2 Robert Kearney Ireland 15
2 George North Wales 15
4 Alex Cuthbert Wales 14
5 Leigh Halfpenny Wales 11
6 Dave Denton Scotland 9
6 Toby Faletau Wales 9
8 Stuart Hogg Scotland 8
Carries
1 Dave Denton Scotland 65
2 Toby Faletau Wales 59
2 Sean Lamont Scotland 59
I think what they also demonstrate is very little evidence for Denton having "slipped off", whatever that may mean.
George Carlin- Admin
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Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : KSA
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
I voted Denton/Faletau.
Faletau was excellant in the world cup and good - very good in all of the 6nations games. Hes excellant defensively and he can attack very well.
Denton seems to work better with another bruiser/tackler (a la Ferris/Brown/Lydiate) at 6 - no stats to back this up, just what i thought of him over the 6nations with Strokosch/Barclay there.
Heaslip is top of the tree but his form hasnt been great for a while now, Morgan showed glimpses of what he can do, and no doubt there'll be more to come from him in the near future (Im gutted we couldnt find him a nice welsh lass to convince him to stay in merthyr - would probably have taken more than a nice lass mind...) but I feel this tour is slightly too early for him.
Faletau was excellant in the world cup and good - very good in all of the 6nations games. Hes excellant defensively and he can attack very well.
Denton seems to work better with another bruiser/tackler (a la Ferris/Brown/Lydiate) at 6 - no stats to back this up, just what i thought of him over the 6nations with Strokosch/Barclay there.
Heaslip is top of the tree but his form hasnt been great for a while now, Morgan showed glimpses of what he can do, and no doubt there'll be more to come from him in the near future (Im gutted we couldnt find him a nice welsh lass to convince him to stay in merthyr - would probably have taken more than a nice lass mind...) but I feel this tour is slightly too early for him.
Comfort- Posts : 2072
Join date : 2011-08-13
Location : Cardiff
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
The thing I really like about Morgan at 8, is his surprising pace and agility. Plus his handling/offloading was very good too. I think he could develop into something great to be honest. His fitness is a barrier, but one he can overcome quite rapidly IMO.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 32
Location : Belfast
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
I like Denton a lot, but went for Morgan.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Based on this 6N and not the RWC I would go for Ben Morgan and Denton. I suspect Morgan will not be fit enough for Gatland, I rather Gatland go with Denton and R Jones but I suspect t will be the fumbling Faletau.
glamorganalun- Posts : 3292
Join date : 2011-05-04
Location : Torfaen
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Can you provide any evidence for this claim regarding Denton or is it just something that you 'observed'? Seems to have been missed by most other posters on here if the current standings in the poll are anything to go by, particularly impressive when you consider the paucity of Scots on here?drsambo1928 wrote:flyhalffactory wrote:Heaslip for his ability and experience, Denton for his superb MOM performances in a struggling Scottish pack, and Ben Morgan for his bulk and barmstorming runs.
Faletau is very close, and could easily slip in to start but I feel his performances dipped against quality opposition over the last 9 months
I agree with your view on Heaslip but not Denton. Denton played well against England but slipped off against everyone else. Ben Morgan could be there if injury hit Faletau or the Heas.
100% spot on AsLong, I was going to highlight this too................ but you got in first, its amazing how posters "overhear something" and latch on to it. I believe Denton was the top performing 6Ns number 8 with regard to men beaten, ball carries, and defensive hits, he was superb against England MOM in my opinion, but his performances thereon didnt go down that much contrary to "popular" belief.
Faletua is a great prospect, going forward superb but he deffo has defensive frailities
flyhalffactory- Posts : 3297
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
He made over 70 tackles in the RWC missing 0 (27 vs Samoa, 0 missed according to ESPN) and made 52 and missed 1 this 6N.flyhalffactory wrote:Faletua is a great prospect, going forward superb but he deffo has defensive frailities
The Bachelor- Posts : 133
Join date : 2011-10-01
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Faletua is a great prospect, going forward superb but he deffo has defensive frailities
doctornickolas- Posts : 813
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Penarth
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
FHF That was a strange statement. Way off the mark on w
one of the best defender at the RWC last year and only 20 years old.
one of the best defender at the RWC last year and only 20 years old.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Glyncorrwg
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Toby defensive frailalties?
C'mon you guys, back it up with some evidence
C'mon you guys, back it up with some evidence
slartibartfast- Posts : 824
Join date : 2011-09-26
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Morgan and Denton on current form, but Heaslip is class too and has been there and done it.
Faletau could be one for the future, but I'm not sure yet. I'm not thoroughly convinced about him. The other 3 are currently in front of him.
Dowson shouldn't be on the list as it stands though I hear he's had some decent club form since the 6Ns.
Faletau could be one for the future, but I'm not sure yet. I'm not thoroughly convinced about him. The other 3 are currently in front of him.
Dowson shouldn't be on the list as it stands though I hear he's had some decent club form since the 6Ns.
sugarNspikes- Posts : 864
Join date : 2012-04-02
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
How many minutes of International Rugby has Morgan played?
Must admit that I am amazed that he is so much more highly regarded than more experienced players.
Morgan is promising,I grant you.When he lasts 80 mins at test match level I could take him more seriously.
Must admit that I am amazed that he is so much more highly regarded than more experienced players.
Morgan is promising,I grant you.When he lasts 80 mins at test match level I could take him more seriously.
Taffineastbourne- Posts : 2043
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Somewhere in Eastbourne
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Taffineastbourne wrote:How many minutes of International Rugby has Morgan played?
Must admit that I am amazed that he is so much more highly regarded than more experienced players.
Morgan is promising,I grant you.When he lasts 80 mins at test match level I could take him more seriously.
I am incredibly surprised at the change of support for Ben Morgan from the derision he caused pre six nations when he announced his allegiance to England. Now he is a more popular choice than Jamie Heaslip.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Glyncorrwg
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
He also seems a lot less popular in Wales (where he was incredibly highly rated) since he remembered he was English.maestegmafia wrote:Taffineastbourne wrote:How many minutes of International Rugby has Morgan played?
Must admit that I am amazed that he is so much more highly regarded than more experienced players.
Morgan is promising,I grant you.When he lasts 80 mins at test match level I could take him more seriously.
I am incredibly surprised at the change of support for Ben Morgan from the derision he caused pre six nations when he announced his allegiance to England. Now he is a more popular choice than Jamie Heaslip.
Human nature is a funny thing innit?
sugarNspikes- Posts : 864
Join date : 2012-04-02
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
sugarNspikes
Some rated him but most said he would always be No2 to Faletau.
Of course he is a good player but I also have my doubts that he has a 80 min game in him and for that reason I would put him third choice behind Heaslip and Faletau
Some rated him but most said he would always be No2 to Faletau.
Of course he is a good player but I also have my doubts that he has a 80 min game in him and for that reason I would put him third choice behind Heaslip and Faletau
Cymroglan- Posts : 4171
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
What are you on about?sugarNspikes wrote:He also seems a lot less popular in Wales (where he was incredibly highly rated) since he remembered he was English.maestegmafia wrote:Taffineastbourne wrote:How many minutes of International Rugby has Morgan played?
Must admit that I am amazed that he is so much more highly regarded than more experienced players.
Morgan is promising,I grant you.When he lasts 80 mins at test match level I could take him more seriously.
I am incredibly surprised at the change of support for Ben Morgan from the derision he caused pre six nations when he announced his allegiance to England. Now he is a more popular choice than Jamie Heaslip.
Human nature is a funny thing innit?
He was/is a promising young player at the Scarlets.Suddenly he is a Lions contender based on a couple of cameos for England.Surreal.English press building him up????
Taffineastbourne- Posts : 2043
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Somewhere in Eastbourne
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
I'm surprised people see Morgan to be ahead of Faletau, his states back up opinion that he had a very good six nations on the back of a very good world cup campaign. Morgan is a good prospect but probably looked allot better than he actually was due to him coming on for Dowsen, who didn't really have an impact at no.8. Morgan needs to improve his match fitness however, if he wants to become a very good no.8, which he certainly is capable.
Denton and Faletau for me, Morgan needs another year or two to prove himself, Denton and Faletau were the stand out 8's and should be the ones going to Aus, Ryan Jones to be covering 8 if needs be or Heaslip if he regains some form.
Denton and Faletau for me, Morgan needs another year or two to prove himself, Denton and Faletau were the stand out 8's and should be the ones going to Aus, Ryan Jones to be covering 8 if needs be or Heaslip if he regains some form.
Liam- Posts : 3574
Join date : 2011-08-09
Location : Wales
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
So you'd leave out a world cup semi finalist and grandslam winner for Denton and Morgan?
Crazy
Always wanted Morgan to play for Wales as cover for Toby.
I can picture Toby tackling his heart out for 50 mins then Morgan coming on - that's the last thing you'd want as a defending team.
Crazy
Always wanted Morgan to play for Wales as cover for Toby.
I can picture Toby tackling his heart out for 50 mins then Morgan coming on - that's the last thing you'd want as a defending team.
slartibartfast- Posts : 824
Join date : 2011-09-26
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
sugarNspikes wrote:He also seems a lot less popular in Wales (where he was incredibly highly rated) since he remembered he was English.maestegmafia wrote:Taffineastbourne wrote:How many minutes of International Rugby has Morgan played?
Must admit that I am amazed that he is so much more highly regarded than more experienced players.
Morgan is promising,I grant you.When he lasts 80 mins at test match level I could take him more seriously.
I am incredibly surprised at the change of support for Ben Morgan from the derision he caused pre six nations when he announced his allegiance to England. Now he is a more popular choice than Jamie Heaslip.
Human nature is a funny thing innit?
He was rarely rated better than Faletau. He is still rated very highly by the Welsh, you'll see many have him as their vote on this poll. Though when he is on the International pitch he doesn't look fit enough for the game, where as Faletau, Denton, Heaslip all do and always have.
Australia will be seriously tough on fitness. We need athletes in the backrow that can go the distance. Morgan has worked hard on his fitness since his emergence on the scene, but it is not as good as others. He is a player of huge potential and has been fantastic for the Scarlets and a revelation for England.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Glyncorrwg
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
maestegmafia, I agree to an extent about horses for courses ie play the right game against Australia with the correct players. One of the reasons I wouldn't play Phillips at 9 against Aus as we need quick ball.
Fitness may be an issue, but remember the Lions tour is a fair way in the future. Morgan's fitness is improving and will continue to improve when he comes to the Aviva Premier. It's easier to improve fitness than basic skills.
Fitness may be an issue, but remember the Lions tour is a fair way in the future. Morgan's fitness is improving and will continue to improve when he comes to the Aviva Premier. It's easier to improve fitness than basic skills.
sugarNspikes- Posts : 864
Join date : 2012-04-02
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Fitness is a pretty small barrier to overcome though. With hard work and dedication (which I'm sure Morgan will show) it does not take long to get it sorted. In all honesty, I think Morgan could be superior to Faletau, as an 8 anyway. As I said earlier, he has pace and agility that he shouldn't have, at his size. Plus he has good hands. I have been surprised by what I have seen by him so far. I think he has a lot of potential.
Faletau this 6 nations falls behind Denton, Morgan and Parisse for me. Though he is a great defensive 8.
Faletau this 6 nations falls behind Denton, Morgan and Parisse for me. Though he is a great defensive 8.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 32
Location : Belfast
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
slartibartfast wrote:So you'd leave out a world cup semi finalist and grandslam winner for Denton and Morgan?
Crazy
Always wanted Morgan to play for Wales as cover for Toby.
I can picture Toby tackling his heart out for 50 mins then Morgan coming on - that's the last thing you'd want as a defending team.
So I guess with your logic, that makes Heaslip the best regardless of form? After all, he is a grand slam winner, a lions player and HEC winner. See how silly that argument is? Parisse isn't one of the best 8s in the world because of his medals and achievements with Italy.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 32
Location : Belfast
Re: Number 8 Choices of the Home Nations
Rory_Gallagher wrote:slartibartfast wrote:So you'd leave out a world cup semi finalist and grandslam winner for Denton and Morgan?
Crazy
Always wanted Morgan to play for Wales as cover for Toby.
I can picture Toby tackling his heart out for 50 mins then Morgan coming on - that's the last thing you'd want as a defending team.
So I guess with your logic, that makes Heaslip the best regardless of form? After all, he is a grand slam winner, a lions player and HEC winner. See how silly that argument is? Parisse isn't one of the best 8s in the world because of his medals and achievements with Italy.
I think Heaslip is the best Eight available, Faletau is close behind, due to lack of experience, not natural skill.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Glyncorrwg
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