Munster v Ulster

First topic message reminder :

Well what a difference a few days make. Leinster stroll past Munster in Thomond, Ulster cruise past Airioni and now definitely fancy their chances on Sunday and rightly so.

My Munster team if players available would be

1. Wian Du Preez
2. Mike Sheery
3. BJ
4. DOC1
5. POC
6. DR
7. POM
8. Coughlan
9. Murray
10. ROG
11. ZEBO
12. Maifi
13. Earls
14. Hurley
15. Jones

Pretty much picks itself bar hooker and back row. Line out was just so bad that Varley has to pay the price. May not have been all his fault but Sherry has been knocking on the door and deserves a shot at this level.

DOC2 had a solid game but I think the partnership of POC and DOC should stand us well. DR to the back row.

Rodders Ulster team

15 Terblanche
14 Trimble
13 Cave
12 Wallace
11 Gilroy
10 IHumph
9 Pienaar
8 Wannenburg
6 Diack
7 Henry
5 Touhy
4 Muller
3 Afoa
2 Best
1 Court

The Gilroy Try

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYZJuHJcfdQ

That really does show the talent that Gilroy has, and we have seen glimpses of it this season, but we know he can produce it on a more consistent basis. He is deceptively strong with pace to boot, and although Zebo has shown more flash recently, it is easy to forget how Gilroy was doing the same in his breakthrough season.

He needs to show that kind of confidence and back himself more often, and consistently produce that kind of magic. Maybe with the added pressure of Bowe returning next year, he is really going to show us what he can do.

quick word for the people of limerick and munster.

Have to say we had an amazing weekend. It is perfectly set up for a great rugby weekend and Thomond was something else. I wish the pubs in belfast were half as accomodating to rugby fans.

I may be being an idiot but lots of people saying they have got their semi final tickets yet when i check on ulsters website and ticketmaster there is no option to buy and the earliest there will be is tuesday i thought?

Standulstermen wrote:

I may be being an idiot but lots of people saying they have got their semi final tickets yet when i check on ulsters website and ticketmaster there is no option to buy and the earliest there will be is tuesday i thought?

Season ticket holders can purchase them from today, they have a special code to enter that they received via email

Cheers.Havent looked at my email yet

Really poor defence from Zebo and Jones but Gilroy did excellently. I was a bit disappointed with Gilroy this season, i expected him to kick on from last year but i guess many players go through this. Expect a bigger season next year even with Bowe coming in for competition.

I thought Zebo made a pathetic attempt, but I don't think many players would have been able to make the tackle that Jones missed (and Jones is a pretty amazing defender). Gilroy is very strong and fast and his step inside meant Jones was left falling in the wrong direction with one arm out to stop Gilroy. He was never going to bring him down at that point.

Also, I think people underestimate how important competition is these days. Look at the likes of D'Arcy and Heaslip, who have been under very little pressure for their positions. Then look at players who know what is at stake, and want to break into the team or keep their place. They give 110%. The added pressure of Bowe coming next year will really inspire Gilroy to play his best rugby.

Tickets bought!

MrsP wrote:Tickets bought!

Good for you. Speaking of which, a certain Scotsman we both know should be coming over for the game

Do people remember Afoa's spear on Jones? Any thoughts on it? I think there might have been a stamping incident too,could have a big effect on the team for the semis. I thought it was a clear red and he deserves to be a gone for a good few weeks. Poite missed that one but he was decent enough throughout. Munster need Stringer back ASAP to teach Murray how to deliver quick ball, we're missing Howlett's vision in attack a lot and we need ROG to attack the gainline if we are to keep him.

Found a clip of the tackle not great quality but better than nothing

Spoiler:

Thanks Thom!!

I will await any citing before accepting your verdict.

Rav, it wasa great game but you can't say it wasn't an offence. We're trying to take this hits out of the game. Jones could have had a(nother) serious injury because of it. Looking forward to the semis,Ulster will be favourites but so were Toulouse. I think they can go and do it, I will be Sitting Down for the Ulstermen (probably in a pub!) at the end of April!

I don't think it was a red. Yellow for dangerous play perhaps, but not a spear tackle. Jones was charging at full speed and reaching forward to try and regather the ball. Once his feet left the ground there was nothing Afoa could have done about it.

He will get cited I imagine. I thought it was a lot worst the first time I saw it. A couple weeks at most.

I was livid at the time and I still am.

Definite tip tackle, definite penalty. I am amazed any fan could watch that and fail to see an offence.

It was blatent in real time, it wasn't a clear red but it was a clear offense. Personally I dont think he will or should be banned. A yellow may have sufficed.

Roman Poite has a lot to answer for. I thought it was a disgraceful performance from him - Munster were the more hard done by team but had Munster managed to get a try then Ulster could have had a few complaints of their own.

Not one sided reffing just a bad day at the office.

Munster were the more hard done by team and yet we were the ones who got a player yellow carded?

Going to 2 Ulster games, 2 weeks in a row.

Yes correct Willy.

Willy, most of the penalites Ulster gave up were stonewall. At least that's what I think Stag means.

The will they won't they Poite-Munster saga continues. You loved him in December when he let Botha away with his arm wrestling

Not sure I can afford Bordeaux so I'll probably look for tickets to this one instead.

Glas a du wrote:The will they won't they Poite-Munster saga continues. You loved him in December when he let Botha away with his arm wrestling

I did Glas. We were on the lucky end of him that day in what was another poor display.

Anyway, Im sure we would have lost with a different ref. He wasnt the reason we lost the game.

Exactly Stag, Munster didn't deserve to win the game. A ref can only influence a game so much, all ref decisions even out. No point b!tching about it for too long (Welsh/Scarlets fans )

Mickado wrote:Not sure I can afford Bordeaux so I'll probably look for tickets to this one instead.

I think Asbo is sorting tickets for us Mick. Let us know if you want any.

Thomond wrote:Do people remember Afoa's spear on Jones? Any thoughts on it? I think there might have been a stamping incident too,could have a big effect on the team for the semis. I thought it was a clear red and he deserves to be a gone for a good few weeks. Poite missed that one but he was decent enough throughout. Munster need Stringer back ASAP to teach Murray how to deliver quick ball, we're missing Howlett's vision in attack a lot and we need ROG to attack the gainline if we are to keep him.

Found a clip of the tackle not great quality but better than nothing

Spoiler:

I think your slightly overreacting there was an element of a tip tackle but I think Afoa did well to drop him on his side rather his head

Tackle should have definitly been a card. What was the stamping incident thomand?

Standulstermen wrote:quick word for the people of limerick and munster.

Have to say we had an amazing weekend. It is perfectly set up for a great rugby weekend and Thomond was something else. I wish the pubs in belfast were half as accomodating to rugby fans.

+ 1

Wonderful city, wonderful stadium and wonderful fans. Genuinely sorry to see Munster out, the competition isn't the same without them and their supporters. Their time will come again soon no doubt about it .

Amazing game, still fiecing buzzing.... still can't believe it . Ulster defence was absolutely awesome and the difference between the two sides, along with Pienaars amazing goal kicking and control at the base. We dominated the breakdown and collisions I think. Amazing try by Gilroy!

Munster did really well to claw back to 1 score but a combination of superb Ulster defence and handling errors from Munster killed off their fightback. It was a game of small margins and thankfully it was our day but it could have gone either way.

Can't wait for the SF! SUFTUM!

Thomond wrote:Rav, it wasa great game but you can't say it wasn't an offence. We're trying to take this hits out of the game. Jones could have had a(nother) serious injury because of it. Looking forward to the semis,Ulster will be favourites but so were Toulouse. I think they can go and do it, I will be Sitting Down for the Ulstermen (probably in a pub!) at the end of April!

Thom, I don't disagree about the call. I don't want another Bradley Davis/Steven Ferris debate. Game is over and I like to think most Munster men will accept they were second best on the day.

Rav, Ulster were full value for their victory, you will have read many reports on here talking about how gracious Munster fans were in defeat, calling me out because I think an incident deserves to be looked at (it has nothing to do with the actual result or anything, we all want a tough,physical but safe game). I have written about how delighted I am for Ulster fans and that it was a superb performance. No need to be singling me out.

It's a tip tackle and by the book it needs to be looked at. Taking it into a context, a yellow would suffice. We can't have double standards lads, if Warburton's was a red then that is surely a citing too?

Rava wrote:

Thomond wrote:Rav, it wasa great game but you can't say it wasn't an offence. We're trying to take this hits out of the game. Jones could have had a(nother) serious injury because of it. Looking forward to the semis,Ulster will be favourites but so were Toulouse. I think they can go and do it, I will be Sitting Down for the Ulstermen (probably in a pub!) at the end of April!

Thom, I don't disagree about the call. I don't want another Bradley Davis/Steven Ferris debate. Game is over and I like to think most Munster men will accept they were second best on the day.

Indeed Rava. We arent looking for a witch hunt but Afoa should have been penalised. Thats all.

roddersm wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:quick word for the people of limerick and munster.

Have to say we had an amazing weekend. It is perfectly set up for a great rugby weekend and Thomond was something else. I wish the pubs in belfast were half as accomodating to rugby fans.

+ 1

Wonderful city, wonderful stadium and wonderful fans. Genuinely sorry to see Munster out, the competition isn't the same without them and their supporters. Their time will come again soon no doubt about it .

Amazing game, still fiecing buzzing.... still can't believe it . Ulster defence was absolutely awesome and the difference between the two sides, along with Pienaars amazing goal kicking and control at the base. We dominated the breakdown and collisions I think. Amazing try by Gilroy!

Munster did really well to claw back to 1 score but a combination of superb Ulster defence and handling errors from Munster killed off their fightback. It was a game of small margins and thankfully it was our day but it could have gone either way.

Can't wait for the SF! SUFTUM!

Completely agree with the part in bold.

red_stag wrote:

Rava wrote:

Thomond wrote:Rav, it wasa great game but you can't say it wasn't an offence. We're trying to take this hits out of the game. Jones could have had a(nother) serious injury because of it. Looking forward to the semis,Ulster will be favourites but so were Toulouse. I think they can go and do it, I will be Sitting Down for the Ulstermen (probably in a pub!) at the end of April!

Thom, I don't disagree about the call. I don't want another Bradley Davis/Steven Ferris debate. Game is over and I like to think most Munster men will accept they were second best on the day.

Indeed Rava. We arent looking for a witch hunt but Afoa should have been penalised. Thats all.

That's All

I had a good view of the tackle in real time and given the context of recent tip tackles I think Afoa is probably lucky not to see a card of some description.

If he had of done I'd probably have felt aggrieved but not surprised.

Thomond wrote:Do people remember Afoa's spear on Jones? Any thoughts on it? I think there might have been a stamping incident too,could have a big effect on the team for the semis. I thought it was a clear red and he deserves to be a gone for a good few weeks. Poite missed that one but he was decent enough throughout. Munster need Stringer back ASAP to teach Murray how to deliver quick ball, we're missing Howlett's vision in attack a lot and we need ROG to attack the gainline if we are to keep him.

Found a clip of the tackle not great quality but better than nothing

Spoiler:

I agree with this hugely. Especially with TOL now off to London you need another quality 9. Stringer would really have helped to inject some pace. Murray's service in terms of getting the ball away quickly and making the right decisions quickly has slowed over the last 5 months or so and Stringer will be able to sort that out I'd say.

Stringer was hugely overrated 5 years ago he is now seriously underrated and he hasn't changed as a player that much

Once we see Dougie back and ROG/Keatley attacking the gainline like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FArVEgxgvQM

Then maybe Munster can improve their back play.

Golden, I didn't see any stamping incident, but I was reading Munsterfans.com, (some load of Poopie poster there but they did have the tackle clip) and they said they saw someone stamp on DOC.

Anyway, looking ahead to semi finals, Ulster simply must put Edinburgh to sword. They need to seize this chance at an ERC Final.

As for Munster I have my thoughts on how they need to move forward:

http://redstagrugby.blogspot.com/2012/04/where-to-now-for-munster.html

I realise this is going to be an unpopular suggestion, but I think Munster will look a lot more dangerous if they move Earls out to the wing again. His pace and finishing abilities are not being utilised right now and he is a much bigger threat out wide.

Rory, I think we could be looking at Earls on the bench which is not what we need from Ireland point of view.

Why do you think he will be on the bench? See this is why he shouldn't have been shifted to 13. As I have said, his distribution has improved a lot, and his defence has been very solid, but his strengths aren't being used. At 13 he is a good solid option, but no more.

Zebo deserves to retain his spot and Dougie is better than Earls maybe at full back.

Yes Rory but will he be the best winger available next season?

I personally don't think there's too much wrong with Munster, they had a number of players coming back from injury and maybe were lacking some of the cohesion they had prior to the 6N.

They had plenty of opportunities to win the game and if they'd have converted just one this thread would be totally different.

Munster fans should keep this defeat in pespective and keep the faith. They have plenty of quality and the future looks bright for them.

Yeah I see your point Rava, but maybe he would be had he stayed on the wing this season. Maybe he deserves another shot at 15 though. Jones hasn't been hitting the heights of last season. Number 22/23 is starting to look like Earls' position these days though..

Can I say this. I think Jones is a fantastic talent but yesterday (and Saturday) showed how far he is from being the best fullback in Ireland. A couple of times he just didn't know what to do with the ball. Having said that I think he has a massive future and I wouldn't want to see him displaced by Earls just to keep Earls on the pitch.

Earls to the bench?
My guess would have been

Murray-ROG
Downey-Lualua
Earls-Jones-Zebo

I suppose it depends on Howlett

I see what you mean about that Thomond but that's not really what Munster need yeah the handling and support lines are top top quality but they need attacks that aren't counter ones. they need phase play that is creative. ROG attacking the gain line will help hugely as seen in the 2nd phase here. They need that quick ball for him to do it. They also have to learn how to run good decoy lines and more than one of them at once.

When we did backs moves it was always done as each runner was an option so the move was set but 3 players could get the ball off 10 or 12, so those players ran expecting to get the ball and the 10 or 12 found the space or mismatch. That is what Munster need above all other things apart from quick ball. Again all IMO.

Keatley may be more necessary as time continues.

No there isn't too much right. Play a more coherent attacking game really is the big one and learn to play for 80 minutes.

Rory Gallagher, I think Zebo and Howlett are better at wing than Earls. Jones and Hurley are better at 15.

We need Laulala's creativity and it is suggested that Laulala cannot play at 12.

Earls is a guy who is definitely good enough to play wing, centre or fullback but Im not sure he is the best option at any of them.

Rava wrote:Can I say this. I think Jones is a fantastic talent but yesterday (and Saturday) showed how far he is from being the best fullback in Ireland. A couple of times he just didn't know what to do with the ball. Having said that I think he has a massive future and I wouldn't want to see him displaced by Earls just to keep Earls on the pitch.

AGREE IN FULL WITH THIS.

(saying it in captials to stress how much I agree)

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Earls to the bench?
My guess would have been

Murray-ROG
Downey-Lualua
Earls-Jones-Zebo

I suppose it depends on Howlett

I see what you mean about that Thomond but that's not really what Munster need yeah the handling and support lines are top top quality but they need attacks that aren't counter ones. they need phase play that is creative. ROG attacking the gain line will help hugely as seen in the 2nd phase here. They need that quick ball for him to do it. They also have to learn how to run good decoy lines and more than one of them at once.

When we did backs moves it was always done as each runner was an option so the move was set but 3 players could get the ball off 10 or 12, so those players ran expecting to get the ball and the 10 or 12 found the space or mismatch. That is what Munster need above all other things apart from quick ball. Again all IMO.

Keatley may be more necessary as time continues.

I think while ROG continues then Keatley will be a nearly man. For his progression and Munsters/Irelands then he needs to be starting at 10.

I agree with that, I love ROG but I think his time is up.