The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub, Edinburgh

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat. The pub has ventured to Edinburgh, as the team has made their first ever Heineken Cup Semi Final.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the pictures of Martyn Williams, Shane Williams, Paddy Jackson, Paul O'Connell and Tim Visser.



Old Pub: https://www.606v2.com/t27886p1000-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub-belfast#1157191

Diolch Penfro

MrsP - I would be very disappointed if people thought me that dishonest or inconsistent in my views.

Never dishonest Dreamer!

I just think it would be much more of a condemnation of the cheating if you were castigating your own team after a victory. Removes any confusion as to your motives and adds a whole lot of weight to your arguement, no?

rugbydreamer wrote:Diolch Penfro

Never nice seeing a lady 'picked on', especially when she is expressing a genuine concern.You are not a bad loser, I know of the times you have congratulated the winners when they have beaten the Scarlets

I regularly give out about how the Scarlets compete at the breakdown MrsP whether we've won or lost.

And I don't understand how there's confusion over my motives?

Ah here now, I wouldn't want anyone to think we were picking on somebody least of all the alleged victim. Dreamer, you know we respect your views

Don't think anyone is picking on Dreamer at all and of course we have all heard her congratulate teams that have beaten the Scarlets. Pretty much all of us do that here.

I'm just saying that complaining about the antics of your own team would go a long way to distance anyone from the accusation that their problem was with anyone cheating.

MrsP - sorry, but that last bit didn't make sense to me??

Notch - aye I know that, I'm just starting to find it a bit disappointing that what is a genuine gripe I have with the game, is just being seen as me complaining because my team has lost. I don't think that's fair.

Dreamer this is where I see the inconsistency in your views. You don't find it fair when your opinions are disregarded, and that is fair enough like, but is it fair for you to totally disregard mine at times? Do you not see the hypocrisy?

Also I'm not having a go, before you think I am, I am just asking.

I know, it didn't make much sense, did it?



What I meant was, seeing as you feel so strongly about cheating by everyone in the game, the time to write a hard hitting article about it would be straight after your team had won. Then your motives would be crystal clear for all to see.

Rory, seriously are you stalking my posts or something?

If someone fully disagrees with my opinion (like in this instance on the cheating issue), that's fair enough, I'll debate it with them (as I've suggested to you), but if my opinion is disregarded just because the team I've supported has just lost, then no, I don't think that's right or fair. Do you see the difference?

Amser Gwely, nos da pawb

I think that there will be an element of bias when you support a team that wants to keep the ball alive as much as possible because if your gameplan involves keeping the ball in the rucks or scrums it's pretty much inevitable that there are penalties that can be conceded by playing that way.

So teams that slow the ball down won't suffer as much as the teams that want quick ball. Any fan of a team that relies on quick ball will be a little bit biased about this.

MrsP - aha, I understand now. And aye it would be, but I would find it a shame that I would have to do it then, just for people not to doubt my motives. That's actually a very depressing thought.

Nos da Penfro

rugbydreamer wrote:Rory, seriously are you stalking my posts or something?

If someone fully disagrees with my opinion (like in this instance on the cheating issue), that's fair enough, I'll debate it with them (as I've suggested to you), but if my opinion is disregarded just because the team I've supported has just lost, then no, I don't think that's right or fair. Do you see the difference?

Stalking your posts? Where did you even pull that one from? Flip me..

It isn't fair no, but it isn't fair either to call people delusional, beyond ridiculous or whatever when you can simply say "I disagree" and tell them why.

ah but Rory, I am prone to exaggeration when I feel passionate about something!

If you don't think that your posts were delusional, sure why not debate your point back? I never intended that nastily, tis just a way of expressing how much I disagreed is all.

I'm sure you remember the "Ferris tackle" thread?

Who could forget it?

Well, no matter how many times I tried to explain that my difficulty was purely with the question of legallity or illegallity of that particular tackle, I still got dogs abuse for moaning about the result, being a bad loser etc.

I said time and time again that I was not complaining about the result or attributing the loss to the decision but still folks couldn't see it.

It may be depressing but that is clearly what happens. And we all know that none of us are truely impartial when our teams are involved. I do also have to say that I haven't noticed you complaining about cheating when Scarlets have won. Maybe I just wasn't around all those times.

I may not have complained specifically about cheating (as I try to ignore it as it winds me up so), but I tend to always moan about the breakdown MrsP.

The way players have decided to re enact being beached whales whilst flopping over the sides of rucks is maddening.

rugbydreamer wrote:ah but Rory, I am prone to exaggeration when I feel passionate about something!

If you don't think that your posts were delusional, sure why not debate your point back? I never intended that nastily, tis just a way of expressing how much I disagreed is all.

I think the word delusional can be used when someone claims you are stalking their posts on an internet forum.. not when someone has a disagreement in how a player performed. I said all that had to be said on North, a simple "I disagree" and saying why you did disagree would have been fine. In fact I don't see how I could be accused of stalking your posts, I had nothing to say about your opinions on North. You had something to say about mine though.

That is a good reason for me not to debate anything back anyway, can't say I am too happy with being accused of stalking..

Yeah okay Rory, how bouts we just leave this one eh? I think tis a case of a clash of posting styles.

Right.

rugbydreamer wrote:I may not have complained specifically about cheating (as I try to ignore it as it winds me up so), but I tend to always moan about the breakdown MrsP.

The way players have decided to re enact being beached whales whilst flopping over the sides of rucks is maddening.

Earlier you told me off for putting the word cheating in "".

It is quite an emotive word especially when used about the players from another team and not players from your own team. Have you ever posted that the Scarlets were cheating at the breakdown?

If you are willing to call other teams cheats but not your own team then I think you have to accept that you are not being wholely unbiased, no?

I would say it is nigh on impossible for me to be completely unbiased about the Scarlets MrsP, and I will never ever pretend that I can be.

And of course Scarlets players cheat. I don't believe I have come out right and said it before, but then it's been a long time since I've had a moan about all teams cheating (I will concede earlier on twitter I was moaning mainly about Irish sides). I also don't see the need for me to do so here, to comment on them specifically, when I have already stated this evening that I dislike the cheating from ALL teams. I don't see how that could be clearer?

Im with Dreamer on ths one. The game needs to be closely minded and monitored, as the stakes get higher. The tools are now there for the Ref and his assisstants to use. So use em if in any doubt. And punish those culpable - with ONE global standard. That will stop a lot of the sheet going on right now. The IRB needs to standardise the interpretation of rules, penalties for foul play, across all the leagues and all competitions. It is a running joke as it stands.

Diving/falling over, is creeping into it now and that eventually, put me off a game I so loved. Soccer. That and players on a fortune - attacking the ref verbally and getting away with it. Its disgusting to see. How soon will that creep in also, if we dont watch it and strongly put it down when it happens? Please lets not take our eye off the ball. We love this game for a reason. Its special. But it is not impervious to creeping, high-stake, negative professionalism. taking away its very ethos. Lets keep it beautiful. Hard, rough, but still fair & beautiful.

The IRB are blatantly not handling this and I feel as strongly about it as Dreamer.

As Nige himself said: "Listen boys, I wont have it! This is NOT soccer"

We need more Nige's. And at the Top too.

Well, I think it's hard to maintain full credibility about your dislike of cheating in the game unless you are willing to condemn your own team for it.

Can you see that the word itself is quite emotive?

I am condemning all teams MrsP. I honestly don't see how I can state that any clearer.

Yeah word might be emotive, but it's completely accurate. Sure I could use "bending the laws" or "adapting" to them, but when you come down to it, it's cheating. Simple as, so why sugar coat it?

What I think would make it clearer was if you actually called the Scarlets cheats the next time you see them do it.

Don't sugar coat that either!

Why the need for me to expressly say it about the Scarlets? Why can't you just take my comments for what they are, about the game in general, and not about specific teams?

MrsP wrote:Well, I think it's hard to maintain full credibility about your dislike of cheating in the game unless you are willing to condemn your own team for it.

That's how I feel. If you really feel as strongly about it as this then you should start close to home.

Why are Ulster fans being so one-eyed here? ANYTHING happens to negatively affect your team. Or if anyone dare say ANYTHING negative about your players - ye go beserk, in packs, on here. But dont see it as well, when other teams are involved in the self-same activity. Right across the board. Passion is one thing. Blindness is another.

Methinks, with success, ye are catching the Munster Disease.

MrsP - all I can say is I'm disappointed you seem to feel the need for me to say something specifically against the Scarlets (even though I've already mentioned I give out as to how they play the breakdown) before you can take my opinion on this seriously and calling my credibility into question.

anyways, I'm off to get some sleep, horrid work to go to in a few hours.

Nos da.

I'm not the one complaining about cheating here. Nor are my team being specifically accused.

The was at Gibbo.

Dreamer, to me it seems you are saying that the Scarlets "Flop over the ball at the breakdown" and other teams "cheat".

And pendantic. They are getting far more pendantic. Price of Success eh?

Hoi MrsP. Love you.

Nite regs. Slap that lekker.

Just looking for consistency Gibbo!

I would be permanently in the sin bin if I played now. Killing ball was my trade mark. Does that make me a hypocrite?

I still hate it when everybody says "right, to beat the Scarlets all you have to do is slow their ball down and creep up offside in the backs." I hate it that we haven't worked out how to deal with that. I hate it that we put ourselves at the Ref's mercy. I hate it that not all pro12 refs are as good as Nigel. But I hate above all that the fact that to point out how poor a ref is (and hence how he did contribute to our loss) is sour grapes, because that is my only refuge. I don't like bad sportsmanship, but the other option is to slate the team I pay to go and see (connotes sporting love in my book, see?) and obviously I can't do that!

Scarlets supporting in a nutshell.

I appreciate your consistency & honesty mate.

So what are you going to plant this year? You're not so passionate about broad beans I hear...

Excellent post Glas.

I remember being with the Chef down at ASM last year. It was a cauldron. It was boiling over. Leo was going in from the side EVERY TIME REF! Unpunished. And the Chef was going beserk.
We were near hitting each other over it.

I love my Captain. But... I love the Chef more. He was right about Barnes that day. My hope is that Leo has a day off, slinks into the background and Brad shaags young Nathan by pure experience and stealth alone.

Now say 3 Hail Marys and 10 How's Yer Fathers, Gibbo. And Believe.

Ulster fans just dont have that. They need to earn it. By right. '99 was a sham. But at least it wasn't a Saffer-based team.

Pre (possible) Final Psyche? Phhokin roysh it is.

PenfroPete wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:Diolch Penfro

Never nice seeing a lady 'picked on', especially when she is expressing a genuine concern.You are not a bad loser, I know of the times you have congratulated the winners when they have beaten the Scarlets

+1

Me too. Ive seen it 1st hand. The essence of a passionate - yet ultimately fair, rubgy fan.

Im not. I'm a feicin baad loser. Not used to it now, you see. Used to be a good loser. Had to be. No choice in the Munster era. Hated it. Like they do now.

It makes what is happening now - all the sweeter.

The testosterone and pheromone-fueled kids, will only even begin to understand this, as they go through the motions and emotions of it all.

Stripes must be earned.

Rugby is a never-ending long haul... highs replaced by lows replaced by highs.

I've learned it's the way you handle the good and the bad, the pretty and the ugly is what keeps you sane. It's great to celebrate a big win but one also needs to prepare for the disappointments.

Nice Breaker man.

I've had the gutting disappointments over 40 years. With club and country. We should have 4 x Heinos by now. That's why I savour, with relish - what is happening with my team right now.

It wont last. But while it does...

My teams to watch, support and to help dissapate that singular energy – are Connacht, Scarlets, Chiefs and London Irish.

Phhokit. Shoot me. I'm a rugby romantic.

Well said Gibbo... as always. I like the way you always tell it like it is and are usually the first to congratulate/commiserate with the other fans.

All your cards are on the table for all to see.... except for that little Ace of Spades up your cuff.

Thanks for those tips. I'll keep an eye out for them. Will Exeter get into the Heino next year or is that more of a long term objective?

Exeter will be in the Heino next season breaker, they have been a breath of fresh air in the Premiership this season and have earned the right to compete with Europes finest next season.

Morning all.

Morning people, our song for today.

MAD WORLD - GARY JULES

MrsP wrote:The was at Gibbo.

Dreamer, to me it seems you are saying that the Scarlets "Flop over the ball at the breakdown" and other teams "cheat".

Then I'm afraid you've completely missed the point bout the game in general I was trying to make.

And morning all! Got my brother staying over tonight and we're meeting up with my cousin for food later. Haven't seen either for months so really looking forward to it!


Hope everyone's well

Biltong

I am in full agreement, a mad world it most certainly is.

Morning all, just read through the Scarlets v Munster thread. Got a bit heated on there for no apparent reason.

Can i choose the original version biltong?

I like that version the most, billy, but hey, art is in the eye of the beholder, you may pick any version you want.

Good man, i just could not like that version. Brilliant song though