Bobby Skinstad says "sorry"

For those who didn't watch the match between the Sharks and Chiefs on the weekend, there was an up and under that was chased by Lelia Masaga and Lwazi Mvovo was the reciever, the charge tackle wasn't executed very well and Masaga arrived into the tackle with no arms and their two heads and chests collided in an unpleasant ending where both players were bloodied.

During the commentating Bobby skinstad ex springbok now turned commentator had this comment to make "Lelia Masaga has gone head high in an absolute coconut tackle straight onto Lwazi Mvovo and tried to take his head off,"

When Chief's loose forward Scott Waldrom tweeted: "Does the SA commentator know that the term 'coconut tackle' is actually a derogatory term?"

Skinstad replied: "Heard the term and thought it meant aiming for the 'nut' - no harm meant sorry."

Twitter user@Broncos_NRL tweeted "coconut is a racist term to describe a pacific islander, it's like calling a black man the N word".

You really need to register for a multi cultural course these days to be a public figure as anything you say can be trned against you.

Jeez some people are so damn sensitive these days aye, i don't get how coconut tackle is offensive

Apparetly The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English, by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell, Terry Victor, defines “coconut tackle” as the following – ‘In rugby, a head high tackle, New Zealand’

I haven't heard the term used before but having now heard it I can see how it would be construed as derogatory, in any case it's clearly not complimentary. Skinstad has obviously heard the term and thought it was worth repeating. That said, he has apologised so we can give him the benefit of the doubt and move on.

I generally find the SA commentators pretty fair but in this particular game they seemed a bit one-eyed. Case in point was this particular tackle where they just kept banging on about 'no arms in the tackle' when anyone with one good eye could see he did attempt to use arms but was knocked out before he could rap them around. Maybe they got caught up in the boos from the crowd and forgot to think for themselves.

What i find offensive is that Polynesian players are allowed to get away with dangerous tackles as there part of there 'culture'

Nobody in their right mind intends to make a tackle with their head knowing that it will knock themselves out in the process. Sometimes tackles just go wrong.

haven't seen the tackle in question however there is an issue with Polynesian players and dangerous tackling

I'd say it's more a case of poor technique, over enthusiasm and possibly the odd brain fart. Either way, in this day and age with cameras following you to the bathroom nobody really gets away with anything.... Digby Ioane getting 5 weeks for a good front on tackle, 2 yellow cards last week in the 'saders Stormers game for 'head high' tackles around the shoulder. Rugby needs to harden the f up.

Skinstad was probably trying to be funny by using race as his means, I find it unbelievable that Skinstad says he was unaware of the furor that Andy Capastagno when he also described the Brian Lima tackle as a "coconut tackle".I dont know if Bobby Skinstad is racist but I do know that he is very stupid and about 30 years behind the times.

I find there are a number of people on this website who are racist against Pacific Islanders.

20 years ago I used to describe South Africans as Yarpies (Jarpeys),but when it was explained to me that it was offensive I desisted.

Oh boy, Laurie and Full credit.

Full credit You say you'll give Bobby Skinstad the benefit of the doubt, Laurie you beleive he tried to use race as a method to be funny and are thirty years behind time.

In SA we have learn't over the last 16 years that the one thing you don't do is use any racial or possible racial slurs as means to communication as here in SA it is a guaranteed means to be prosecuted as a racist.

andy cpaistanio was not commentating in that game, it was Bobby skinstad, Robbie Kempson and Matthew Pearce. So whatever Andy knows is not relevant here.

If Bobby says he didn't know then I beleive him as he isn't stupid enough living in this country to use anything remotely racist related.

I have to be honest and I am not aiming this solely at you guys, but why does everything a white South African say have to be realted to racism firstly, then you'll consider the benefit of the doubt.

I'll tell you one thing, the media has us all by the short and curly's, it seems best for white south africans not to open their mouths, they'll probably get into trouble for saying chocolate.

Got to admit its the first ive heard of this term and never thought of any race related meaning just a stupid tackle

As I said I've never heard the term before but when I did hear it it initially struck me as possibly an inflammatory remark.

It is not known if he intended to be offensive or not but I'm prepared to say he wasn't. What's the problem? I'm not trying to make a mountain out of this, on the contrary I'm saying let's move on.

biltongbek wrote:Oh boy, Laurie and Full credit.

Full credit You say you'll give Bobby Skinstad the benefit of the doubt, Laurie you beleive he tried to use race as a method to be funny and are thirty years behind time.

In SA we have learn't over the last 16 years that the one thing you don't do is use any racial or possible racial slurs as means to communication as here in SA it is a guaranteed means to be prosecuted as a racist.

andy cpaistanio was not commentating in that game, it was Bobby skinstad, Robbie Kempson and Matthew Pearce. So whatever Andy knows is not relevant here.

If Bobby says he didn't know then I beleive him as he isn't stupid enough living in this country to use anything remotely racist related.

I have to be honest and I am not aiming this solely at you guys, but why does everything a white South African say have to be realted to racism firstly, then you'll consider the benefit of the doubt.

I'll tell you one thing, the media has us all by the short and curly's, it seems best for white south africans not to open their mouths, they'll probably get into trouble for saying chocolate.

I look forward to the day when there are no white South Africans only South Africans. Now there's two ways you can take that either i want white south Africans wiped out or i look forward it
to a day when race doesn't matter. The issue is in the mind of the person hearing it

We are constantly reminded that there are no "just south africans"

And that's a shame my friend i can only hope that it will be different for you boys generation.

I can only pray it does my friend.

hows he going with the rugby.? My boy has been doing touch since September just had his 5th birthday and has a worrying love for contact . If he nearly break another child again im in deep do do

If he didn't know it was an offensive term and he didn't mean offence, and he apologized when he found out how others interpreted it then that's that. Nothing to see here.

Biltong I think, because of history, white people in South Africa will just have this negative stereotypical label in some peoples minds. Unfortunate fact of life.

Just like some people will always think the English are greedy, violent imperialists, the French are cowardly surrender monkeys, and I probably have a bomb in my potato.

biltong
95 % of the time I agree with you whole heartedly in the comments you make,and then every now and then you say something that absolutely stuns me.

You know perfectly well that I was talking about the Game in the late 90s when Brian Lima smashed Joost van westhuizen,and the then commentator Andy cpaistanio (I copied your spelling) described the tackle as a "coconut tackle",as a result of the cries of racism from New Zealand Cpaistanio quickly apologised,however he let himself down somewhat by using the excuse that because the word "coconut" didnt have any racial connotations in South Africa then it was just an understandable mistake.which only left the impression that racism must be regarded as an exclusive thing to South Africa by some.

It seems strange that Skinstad come along all these years later,and uses the same term to describe another tackle made by someone of Polynesian ethnicity.I was giving him the benefit of the doubt by calling him stupid and behind the times.

Laurie , I never hard of that incident, I have never heard the term before and that is the reality.

Biltong

Look it up,you may be the wiser for it.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Biltong I think, because of history, white people in South Africa will just have this negative stereotypical label in some peoples minds. Unfortunate fact of life.

Feckless you are correct and I try not to respond to this, but the problem is we get it over here, we get it from over there, and I am in all honesty downright fedup with it.

I myself at my age of 47 had nothing to do with the old regime. I grew up during apartheid in a single parent household, went to 9 schools whilst growing up as my mother struggled to get by without getting any maintenance from my father, so I didn't even "benefit" from the old regime as many always suspect.

I voted for the first time in 1982 during a referendum asking us about a new political dispensation. I spent 2 years of my life on the Angolan border during my national service doing little to nothing but being messed about and training my guts out for nothing to happen, just a waste of my time.

Now 16 years after the new dispensation our infrastructures are falling apart whilst the government perfcts even more methods of taxing the "firstworld" section of Sa to supposedly benefit the "third world" population of Sa whilst the money dissappears around every corner, and then on top of that I have to listen to this BS

I think people just love to have drama in their lives, and get offended by the slightest things. Seriously, how is "coconut tackle" offensive? In my honest opinion Skinstad has nothing to be sorry for, it isn't his fault people are getting worked up over nothing.

Rory
Doesnt the fact that Skinstad has so quickly apologised not suggest something to you?

He didn't quickly apologise, it was tweeted to him, so he had to respond.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Rory
Doesnt the fact that Skinstad has so quickly apologised not suggest something to you?

Yeah, that he is a nice guy and doesn't want to offend over-sensitive whiners. I repeat, why would anyone be offended by the term "coconut tackle"? Like what is Waldrom whining about, why would it offend him? Did Masaga say anything?

Biltong
I didnt watch the games played in South Africa on Sunday morning live,however I was aware of this incident before I even got to watch a replay of the game as it was all over the news here on Sunday,and by that point Skinstad had apologised.

I didnt raise the issue in the super xv review thread as I stupidly presumed that the less said about such uninformed comments the better,however now that you have raised it,and I have read the ensuing comments I felt that some balance had to be applied to the thread.

Ok, Laurie let me ask you this, we have communicated here for some time now, have you ever seen me comment or post in a racist or racial bias way before?

rory
I am not aware of what Scooter Waldrom has said? educate me.

It is at the top of the thread, the intro.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Rory
Doesnt the fact that Skinstad has so quickly apologised not suggest something to you?

Mate I think you're reading too much into this one. I'm not a Skinstad fan, but fair play, it was pointed out to him and he apologised.

And I have to say, I've gone and googled the Capostagno indident, it still doesn't ring any bells in my memory even after reading the write-up

Biltong
No,I cant recall you making any comment that was racially prejudicial in the past, however using ignorance as an excuse for derogatory language is not all that helpful.

OK, then if I used the term "coconut tackle" would you deem my intent to be racial?

What is derogatory about "coconut tackle"? This is ridiculous.

Kiwi
When the Brian Lima incident occured it was big news.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Kiwi
When the Brian Lima incident occured it was big news.

Reading back I can see that. I'm just pointing out that if I can't remember it at all (and I'm normally pretty good at remembering past events around rugby) I can see why Skinstad possibly didn't either.

Biltong
I dont know if you were to use the term that you are intending to be making a racial slur,but if you know it is derogatory and you then continue to use the term then at least you are intending to be inflamatory.

Have you ever heard the term when a non Polynesian makes a tackle?

I have never heard the term period. The poijt I am trying to make is if I in my normal day to day correcpndence on this forum do not display racial bias, then how could I be seen to have the intent of being racially biased if I were to use the term.

You say the beneift of the doubt goes to bobby skinstad, but it ceratinly doesn't look that way.

You say ignorance is not an excuse, I cannot agree with you, how should one know every term slang or otherwise that is offensive to toehr nations, races creeds or colours. Not everyone studies different cultures.

Kiwi
Skinstad would have played against Lima many times, he would know Cpaistanio, he would have known about the incident if some one like me and many Polynesians in this town can remember it.

Fine Laurie, that's the way you see it.

I will scrutinise my responses in future.

Biltong
I am really struggling to imagine how you can say that ignorance is an excuse,here I am trying to educate you and you dimiss it.

http://www.superxv.com/news/super15_rugby_news.asp?id=34868

"However the term coconut is now used in South Africa as a derogatory insult against someone who is described as having lost their heritage as they appear to be black on the outside and white on the inside similar to a coconut."

I've never even heard the phrase until today. I find it ridiculous that people are getting so wound up about it.

Laurie, yes, now you have educated me on the term coconut tackle.

There are most likely more that we should be aware of, how and when are we going to know what is offensve or not?

The next time someone says something els that is offensive and your first thought will be they intended to be racially biased.

My question is when does it stop?

Once we have studied Polinesian culture and recived our certificates?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:http://www.superxv.com/news/super15_rugby_news.asp?id=34868

"However the term coconut is now used in South Africa as a derogatory insult against someone who is described as having lost their heritage as they appear to be black on the outside and white on the inside similar to a coconut."

I've never even heard the phrase until today. I find it ridiculous that people are getting so wound up about it.

I live in Sa and have never heard the term.

Biltong
I dont want to see or hear this term used again be it on these rugby threads nor in a broadcast from South Africa.

As I said at the top I dont refer to you as a Jarpie,simply because I would never do anything thing that might offend you.

Well, now we know don't we.

Yes, but there are some terms, banana, monkey etc. which in context are perfectly fine, but have a racist second meaning. Has anybody asked the kiwis where ther term came from? Some would give the 'nut' root, others I'm sure would mention the pacific islanders. 1st time it's a mistake, but any commentator that uses it now is a loon.