Shingler tied to Wales

World rugby chiefs have ruled that Steven Shingler is ineligible to play for Scotland and his international future is tied to Wales.
The International Rugby Board heard Shingler's appeal in Dublin on Tuesday.
The former Scarlets and London Irish fly-half had claimed he was not aware an appearance for Wales Under-20s had decided his international eligibility.
"The Council therefore determined that Steven Shingler is tied to Wales," said the IRB in a statement.
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Shingler was deemed to have been captured by Wales having represented the Wales Under-20 team
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IRB statement on Steven Shingler's eligibility
Shingler, 20, found himself at the centre of an eligibility row after he was named in Andy Robinson's Scotland squad for the 2012 Six Nations campaign.
A few weeks later, Shingler's elder brother Aaron, 24, made his debut at openside flanker in Wales' 27-13 win over Scotland in February.
Wales objected to Steven Shingler's inclusion in Scotland's tournament squad because he had played for Wales Under-20s, the nation's designated "second team".
An International Rugby Board panel had ruled that London Irish's Shingler could play only for Wales and not for Scotland, having played for Wales Under-20s against France Under-20s in 2011.
Shingler appealed against the decision and the IRB agreed at a special meeting to rule on the issue of what is a country's second team.
The IRB released a statement that confirmed Shingler had lost his appeal, it read: "Under the Regulations Committee decision Shingler was deemed to have been captured by Wales having represented the Wales Under-20s team against the France Under-20s team in a 2011 Six Nations fixture.
"Both Wales and France had individually designated their Under-20 teams as their next senior national representative teams.
"In accordance with IRB Regulation 2, the IRB Council has the power to endorse or overturn the decision of the Regulations Committee.
"Following the Scottish Rugby Union's appeal of the Shingler decision, the IRB Council considered and determined the matter during its Annual Meeting in Dublin.
"Council, having considered all the facts and having heard submissions from the SRU and WRU legal representatives, dismissed the appeal and upheld the decision of the IRB Regulations Committee.
"The Council therefore determined that Steven Shingler is tied to Wales in accordance with IRB Regulation 8 and therefore is ineligible to represent another Union."
An initial informal assessment by the IRB had determined that the player appeared to be tied to Wales but the SRU formally asked the IRB regulations committee to review the case.
However, the panel also pointed out that the full IRB council had the right to overturn the decision and recommended that the issue of players being tied to countries while playing at Under-20 level should be reviewed.

HERSH wrote:I feel for the lad, cheated out of an International career with Scotland.

Wales should feel ashamed of themselves for destroy this young lads confidence due to sour grapes.

Wrong call from the IRB, but hey whats new!!!

ieuan wrote:So the Steven Shingler fiasco has finally drawn to a close it has been announced that IRB have rejected SRU and Shingler's appeal against being tied to wales.

The IRB state as Shingler played for Wales u20's against France u20's when both countries had them registered as their 'A' side then Shingler is tied to Wales.

I personally think the right decision has been made. For those of you who think that he was too young to choose a nation to play for by the age of 18 you are a legal adult who can vote, drink, get married, sign contracts among a whole list of things. Most 18 year old adults have to make decisions on their futures in terms of work or education and this is no different.

But that’s it he wasn't aware that playing for the under 20's was in effect playing for Wales A due to them not having an A team

HERSH wrote:But that’s it he wasn't aware that playing for the under 20's was in effect playing for Wales A due to them not having an A team.

He was poorly informed by the WRU, who are to blame for this incident, maybe they could give him a Cap against the Baa baas, lets face it they dish them out to anyone these days!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

ieuan wrote:So the Steven Shingler fiasco has finally drawn to a close it has been announced that IRB have rejected SRU and Shingler's appeal against being tied to wales.

The IRB state as Shingler played for Wales u20's against France u20's when both countries had them registered as their 'A' side then Shingler is tied to Wales.

I personally think the right decision has been made. For those of you who think that he was too young to choose a nation to play for by the age of 18 you are a legal adult who can vote, drink, get married, sign contracts among a whole list of things. Most 18 year old adults have to make decisions on their futures in terms of work or education and this is no different.

ieuan, I wouldn't count on it. I'm not going to argue the wrongs and the rights of it, cos that's been done to death and the Council have ratified the Committee's decision to reject his appeal. However, if as expected the Council confirms that U20 squads cannot be second senior teams for the purposes of eligibility, then I wouldn't be surprised to see Shingler permitted to play for Scotland under a retrospective ruling as his is the only case caught under the old ruling. Alternatively, the Sports Tribunal in Geneva beckons, I suspect - rugby's Bosman moment

idris wrote:If he was so torn between loyalties why did he represent Wales under 20's and do a Wales v England S4C advert?

The truth is, Priestland came good in the world cup and he thought he had no chance with Wales in the near future so looked at other options.

beshocked wrote:Idris obviously you are not in the same boat as Shingler as you are a die hard through and through Welsh person.

Evidently Shingler is torn in his loyalties between Wales and Scotland. Having a mother from Scotland will give him a pretty good reason for choosing Scotland.

Can you blame Shingler for wanting to play international rugby?

I feel sorry for the poor lad.

If he was so torn between loyalties why did he represent Wales under 20's and do a Wales v England S4C advert?

KickAndChase wrote:When I join a university, work in a bank or other corporation, drink some alcohol, smoke some tobacco, have sex with a beautiful woman, all at the age of 18, nothing says I have to do it for the rest of my life.

Technically, and only technically, marriage is the only thing in your list that is relevant.

what already looked a poor move from him, looks even more so now. He'd be getting so SO much more gametime (and more then likely at 10) with us

Risca Rev wrote:Oh dear, might've known Cyril and Hersh would be salivating over this.

Perhaps Shingler needs to remember his previous quotes from this season before he decides he's so Scottish.

London Irish back Steven Shingler says he is hoping to use Friday's Heineken Cup game against Cardiff Blues to get himself in the Wales reckoning.
The former Scarlets fly-half has played for Wales Under-20s and is hoping to make the move into the senior squad.
The Exiles travel to Cardiff hoping to put behind them last weekend's opening Heineken Cup defeat by Edinburgh
"It'll be nice to go back to Wales and put down a marker," Swansea-born Shingler, 20, told BBC Radio Berkshire.
Shingler signed for London Irish in January, having made four appearances for the Welsh region.
Primarily signed as a fly-half, he has spent much of the season playing at centre and says he is looking forward to going 'home' this weekend.
"I'll go home for the weekend and it'll be nice to go back and see the family and hopefully it'll be an enjoyable weekend instead of a depressing one," he said.
"It'll be nice to show that I'm still here and in the mix and hopefully I can put in a good performance and get people talking about how well I performed and show them that I am one for the future.
"It was a big decision to leave Wales and move away from home. Mike Catt (backs coach) is here and I felt I need to move here to reach my goals.
"It is a dream to play international rugby and what you aspire to do. I've not had any contact and I know it is tough to get into the Wales reckoning when you move away but I am playing every Saturday and that is what I enjoy.
"It's worked well (the move) and my form is pretty good and I've had a lot of game time. I've managed to play well enough to keep my place.
"Mike Catt has pushed me and tested new boundaries and it's worked out."
Irish will be hoping to come away from Cardiff with some points following their disappointing opening-game defeat by Edinburgh at the Madejski Stadium.
Shingler added it would be extra special for him to beat the Blues considering his roots to Llanelli and Swansea, saying: "It would be lovely to stick one on them."

TycroesOsprey wrote:

HERSH wrote:But that’s it he wasn't aware that playing for the under 20's was in effect playing for Wales A due to them not having an A team.

He was poorly informed by the WRU, who are to blame for this incident, maybe they could give him a Cap against the Baa baas, lets face it they dish them out to anyone these days!

He was fullly informed by the WRU thats the point, However his agent, the same agent responsible for Loxton and Jarvis changing elibgibility a year earlier tried to earn mega bucks from the SRU as he had from the IRFU and misinformed them regarding the eligibility and told shingler that he could get him out of the issue with Wales.

HERSH wrote:I feel for the lad, cheated out of an International career with Scotland.

Wales should feel ashamed of themselves for destroy this young lads confidence due to sour grapes.

Wrong call from the IRB, but hey whats new!!!

sugarNspikes wrote:Got to feel sorry for Shingler when he's stopped from player for the country he wants.

With Wales looking to cap Dirksen, Pretorius and Paterson soon they're certainly increasing their player base.

Let's hope they're all properly eligible when they play.

HERSH wrote:But that’s it he wasn't aware that playing for the under 20's was in effect playing for Wales A due to them not having an A team.

He was poorly informed by the WRU, who are to blame for this incident, maybe they could give him a Cap against the Baa baas, lets face it they dish them out to anyone these days!

beshocked wrote:Double standards from Wales.

They are absolutely desperate to get players from abroad. For example Tried to turn a born and bred Englishman into a Welsh no 8 (Ben Morgan)

maestegmafia wrote:At least the situation is resolved.

U20s players know where they stand and they can make their own decisions as to what they want to do for the future.

Risca Rev wrote:Oh dear, might've known Cyril and Hersh would be salivating over this.

Perhaps Shingler needs to remember his previous quotes from this season before he decides he's so Scottish.

London Irish back Steven Shingler says he is hoping to use Friday's Heineken Cup game against Cardiff Blues to get himself in the Wales reckoning.
The former Scarlets fly-half has played for Wales Under-20s and is hoping to make the move into the senior squad.
The Exiles travel to Cardiff hoping to put behind them last weekend's opening Heineken Cup defeat by Edinburgh
"It'll be nice to go back to Wales and put down a marker," Swansea-born Shingler, 20, told BBC Radio Berkshire.
Shingler signed for London Irish in January, having made four appearances for the Welsh region.
Primarily signed as a fly-half, he has spent much of the season playing at centre and says he is looking forward to going 'home' this weekend.
"I'll go home for the weekend and it'll be nice to go back and see the family and hopefully it'll be an enjoyable weekend instead of a depressing one," he said.
"It'll be nice to show that I'm still here and in the mix and hopefully I can put in a good performance and get people talking about how well I performed and show them that I am one for the future.
"It was a big decision to leave Wales and move away from home. Mike Catt (backs coach) is here and I felt I need to move here to reach my goals.
"It is a dream to play international rugby and what you aspire to do. I've not had any contact and I know it is tough to get into the Wales reckoning when you move away but I am playing every Saturday and that is what I enjoy.
"It's worked well (the move) and my form is pretty good and I've had a lot of game time. I've managed to play well enough to keep my place.
"Mike Catt has pushed me and tested new boundaries and it's worked out."
Irish will be hoping to come away from Cardiff with some points following their disappointing opening-game defeat by Edinburgh at the Madejski Stadium.
Shingler added it would be extra special for him to beat the Blues considering his roots to Llanelli and Swansea, saying: "It would be lovely to stick one on them."

sugarNspikes wrote:Can you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if England were in Wales' position on this one?

Exactly, he was used at 12. He wants the 10 shirt (supposedly). He'd have got that at the Scarlets.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Exactly, he was used at 12. He wants the 10 shirt (supposedly). He'd have got that at the Scarlets.

He couldn't get past Dan Bowden at LI so I doubt he'd have jumped Jones and Priestland at the Parc. Playing 12 is a good development for an aspiring 10, especially at a club like LI where there's a lot of play done with the ball in hand with a backs coach like Catt (at the time) and now a head coach like Smith. He'd have been stuck on the bench or in the stands at Scarlets this season, where as now he's got 43 AP games under his belt for LI.

The move could of only been better for him if he'd have only signed a one year deal and was now heading back to be understudy to Priestland.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Exactly, he was used at 12. He wants the 10 shirt (supposedly). He'd have got that at the Scarlets.

He couldn't get past Dan Bowden at LI so I doubt he'd have jumped Jones and Priestland at the Parc. Playing 12 is a good development for an aspiring 10, especially at a club like LI where there's a lot of play done with the ball in hand with a backs coach like Catt (at the time) and now a head coach like Smith. He'd have been stuck on the bench or in the stands at Scarlets this season, where as now he's got 43 AP games under his belt for LI.

The move could of only been better for him if he'd have only signed a one year deal and was now heading back to be understudy to Priestland.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

As I said it smacks more of sour grapes from Wales rather than anything else. I could understand their reluctance to let him go if he was rapping on the door for an international call up for them, but he isn't. Especially if they are looking at bringing in a bunch of Saffers.

Shame on the WRU IMO.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:His mother is Scottish and he apparently wanted to play international rugby for Scotland.

None of us on here can say or disprove differently.

The IRB have made a hash of it but from what I gather Wales' international system is about as clear as 75 ton lump of granit and poor Shingler has fallen foul of the red tape.

As I said it smacks more of sour grapes from Wales rather than anything else. I could understand their reluctance to let him go if he was rapping on the door for an international call up for them, but he isn't. Especially if they are looking at bringing in a bunch of Saffers.