Grand designs : What should the Tigers do with Welford Road?

According to plans for the 2015 RWC, WR will be redeveloped into a 30k stadium.

But what would be the real cost?

The money of course. Hotels and car parks would defray the expenses.

But socially?

The Crumbie would be gone (equivalent to Glaws' shed being bulldozed).
Tigers can only occasionally fill a 24000 seat stadium as it is so would a 30000-seater not make it a bit soul-less?
Leicester is only a moderately-sized English city (an overgrown market town in all reality) and another 30k stadium on top of the Walkers would add nothing.

Apart from the initial pazazz, what would a quick rebuild add?

1. Knock down the Ayelstone Rd (clubhouse end) and put the players facilities in there. And build the hotel.
2. Hollow out the Crumbie back end and install a temporary structure to develop the car park.
3. As and when necessary, demolish (sadly) the Crumbie and complete the job.

Of course I'm not an architect...

I do think they should do 'something; with the Aylestone Rd end, its rather shabby and a looks Ad Hoc, I suppose its been left in sympathetic support for the Rec...

They ought to modernise the Crumbie too, but knocking it down seems too much of a gamble. 30,000 would probably be too big a capacity for the ground as a whole and the Crumbie faithful may even vote with their feet..

Equo Troiano wrote:I do think they should do 'something; with the Aylestone Rd end, its rather shabby and a looks Ad Hoc, I suppose its been left in sympathetic support for the Rec...

They ought to modernise the Crumbie too, but knocking it down seems too much of a gamble. 30,000 would probably be too big a capacity for the ground as a whole and the Crumbie faithful may even vote with their feet..

The plans and planning permission are in place Equo.

And Welford Road is still in place to be a 30000-seater stadium in 2015 according to wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Rugby_World_Cup#Venues

30,000 is currently too big but we are in a recession and the ticket prices aren't the cheapest (cheaper tickets would increase demand and might make a net improvement in income). It was not that long ago that we only had an 18k capacity and now we average nearly 21k. Things build up over time.

I think it will be an error to do the Crumbie next as the Clubhouse end is in need of the most attention and is normally the last seats to be sold, however, I guess the club want to shove in the hotel and car park asap as those will be good money spinners. The club estimated that the car park would be worth a million pounds a year and that is not to be sniffed at. Though personally I'd like to see them just improve the Crumbie with new supports and a new roof and give it a new lick of paint. The contrast between the state of the art CAT and the old school Crumbie is nice.

As someone who sits in the Crumbie, it will be a very sad day the wooden benches are gone and we can't stamp our feet above the players dressing room before the game. Always provides a great atmosphere, particularly before the big games. I understand they want the car park and hotel but I like it the way it is set up now.

The Crumbie is unfortunately a wooden stand and pretty ancient and therefore a tinderbox.

Question is - would the Tigers be eligible for promotion with the Crumbie in place?

The Crumbie is unfortunately a wooden stand and pretty ancient and therefore a tinderbox

The problem with the old wooden stands was that they were semi hollow and any litter dropped would collect beneath them and if that lit the it would provide a fire which could light the stand (as happened with Bradford I think it was, when a lit fag was dropped onto the rubbish). As is you'd really be going some to get the Crumbie to light without a serious fire to start it off. There is after all a hefty concrete base to the Crumbie with a wooden shell on top, making the sides and roof all metal and just leaving the wooden seating would probably be fine as most of the innards of the stand have been changed over the years.

I attended the Crumbie often in and around the time of the Bradford fire.

I can tell you that there was a mound of rubbish under the stand. And of course in those days smoking was allowed (and more frequent).

The Crumbie under-stand was soon thereafter cleared.

Wooden stands really ought to be consigned to old (or new) farts' memories in public arenas.

Equo Troiano wrote:I do think they should do 'something; with the Aylestone Rd end, its rather shabby and a looks Ad Hoc, I suppose its been left in sympathetic support for the Rec...

They ought to modernise the Crumbie too, but knocking it down seems too much of a gamble. 30,000 would probably be too big a capacity for the ground as a whole and the Crumbie faithful may even vote with their feet..

Mate, is it me or do you have a pop, dig or snidey remark at someone else's expence in almost all of your posts?

Groundshare with London Welsh ?

Can the Tigers not keep the Crumbie stand and do something with the the end opposite the Alliance and Leicester stand, which looks like it probably only seats a thousand or so?

tigerleghorn wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:I do think they should do 'something; with the Aylestone Rd end, its rather shabby and a looks Ad Hoc, I suppose its been left in sympathetic support for the Rec...

They ought to modernise the Crumbie too, but knocking it down seems too much of a gamble. 30,000 would probably be too big a capacity for the ground as a whole and the Crumbie faithful may even vote with their feet..

Mate, is it me or do you have a pop, dig or snidey remark at someone else's expence in almost all of your posts?

I'm not your mate. And no.

Cryptoyourisan wrote:Can the Tigers not keep the Crumbie stand and do something with the the end opposite the Alliance and Leicester stand, which looks like it probably only seats a thousand or so?

I think thats what most people would prefer, because the Crumbie could really only do with a facelift. But as has been said, the wheels seem to be already in motion, I hope that it works out.

Quote:"I'm not your mate. And no."

Or anyone else's on here seemingly.

tigerleghorn wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:I do think they should do 'something; with the Aylestone Rd end, its rather shabby and a looks Ad Hoc, I suppose its been left in sympathetic support for the Rec...

They ought to modernise the Crumbie too, but knocking it down seems too much of a gamble. 30,000 would probably be too big a capacity for the ground as a whole and the Crumbie faithful may even vote with their feet..

Mate, is it me or do you have a pop, dig or snidey remark at someone else's expense in almost all of your posts?

It's not just you, leghorn

tigerleghorn wrote:Quote:"I'm not your mate. And no."

Or anyone else's on here seemingly.

My heart bleeds for your collective concern

Cryptoyourisan wrote:Can the Tigers not keep the Crumbie stand and do something with the the end opposite the Alliance and Leicester stand, which looks like it probably only seats a thousand or so?

In the end it will be about income generation.

As far as the Crumbie goes, currently there is little they can do to the stand and keep the terrace. Currently any modernisatio (and they want to sort out the changing rooms, press facilities and coaches area) and then legally the terrace has to go. This is also the side with space, and already mentioned plans to develop car park etc.

The clubhouse end is in need of sorting out - but space is limited due to the road. The temporary seating down that end is not ideal. Any work done here is not likely to increase revenue - so will be on the back burner.

Indeed, the only real scope for expansion is the back of the Crumbie stand, but it would be nice to get the Aylestone Rd end sorted out.

The current plan is indeed a grand design. Would there be a bigger purpose-built club ground in the NH?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=welford+rd+development+tigers&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=SrH&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&biw=1366&bih=606&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=7Ty2utm0YR7iLM:&imgrefurl=http://www.scrumoftheearth.com/rugby_news/default,month,2008-02.aspx&docid=LPKni8fvjpvDDM&imgurl=http://www.scrumoftheearth.com/rugby_news/content/binary/WelfordRoad.jpg&w=425&h=300&ei=57W0T9itEcTJ0QXJ9pTzBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=665&vpy=172&dur=5047&hovh=189&hovw=267&tx=140&ty=112&sig=112092907440510976659&page=3&tbnh=130&tbnw=173&start=42&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:22,s:42,i:213

The hotel and the NCP site would be money spinners.

Possibly the ground could be filled using lower season ticket prices?

Portnoy wrote:The current plan is indeed a grand design. Would there be a bigger purpose-built club ground in the NH?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=welford+rd+development+tigers&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=SrH&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&biw=1366&bih=606&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=7Ty2utm0YR7iLM:&imgrefurl=http://www.scrumoftheearth.com/rugby_news/default,month,2008-02.aspx&docid=LPKni8fvjpvDDM&imgurl=http://www.scrumoftheearth.com/rugby_news/content/binary/WelfordRoad.jpg&w=425&h=300&ei=57W0T9itEcTJ0QXJ9pTzBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=665&vpy=172&dur=5047&hovh=189&hovw=267&tx=140&ty=112&sig=112092907440510976659&page=3&tbnh=130&tbnw=173&start=42&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:22,s:42,i:213

The hotel and the NCP site would be money spinners.

Possibly the ground could be filled using lower season ticket prices?

I don't know, but some of the big French clubs must surely be right up there?

Stade certainly had plans on a bigger stadium.

Toulouse use more than one stadium depending upon expected crowd. However like many French clubs these are multi-sport municipal grounds.

Portnoy wrote:The current plan is indeed a grand design. Would there be a bigger purpose-built club ground in the NH?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=welford+rd+development+tigers&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=SrH&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&biw=1366&bih=606&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=7Ty2utm0YR7iLM:&imgrefurl=http://www.scrumoftheearth.com/rugby_news/default,month,2008-02.aspx&docid=LPKni8fvjpvDDM&imgurl=http://www.scrumoftheearth.com/rugby_news/content/binary/WelfordRoad.jpg&w=425&h=300&ei=57W0T9itEcTJ0QXJ9pTzBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=665&vpy=172&dur=5047&hovh=189&hovw=267&tx=140&ty=112&sig=112092907440510976659&page=3&tbnh=130&tbnw=173&start=42&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:22,s:42,i:213

The hotel and the NCP site would be money spinners.

Possibly the ground could be filled using lower season ticket prices?

Not for the traditionalists but I think that's a pretty decent design.

As far as the Crumbie goes, currently there is little they can do to the stand and keep the terrace. Currently any modernisatio (and they want to sort out the changing rooms, press facilities and coaches area) and then legally the terrace has to go. This is also the side with space, and already mentioned plans to develop car park etc

The original plan showed little in the way of expansion of the Crumbie in an attempt to try and keep the terrace area the same as it's always been. I presume this is still the case and why it's taken so long for an announcement on the planned build of this section to come out.

I wonder if the redevelopment of WR has been or ever planned to be put in front of the shareholders...

I wonder if the redevelopment of WR has been or ever planned to be put in front of the shareholders...

I'm sure it was agreed at the AGM, whether each initial section is then ratified or not I don't know. Should the fans fell indignant enough about any of it then those with shares could voice their concern at the next AGM and actually force out a member of the board if there was enough support.

I have a vague recollection of notification and an opportunity to express concerns. Quite some time ago though.

I just added this to another post - but it's even more relevant here

I think that the extension of WR would reduce the sales of the bread-and-butter season ticket sales.

There must be a hefty proportion of Tigers supporters who buy STs in the fear of missing big matches. Like every team, don't take a great deal of official attendances figures.

The knowledge that an additional 6000 tickets available might make the marginal ST purchasers less inclined to go for it.