Irish Summer Tour Squad

First topic message reminder :

RELAND SUMMER TOUR SQUAD (New Zealand 2012):

Backs (13):

Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
AN Other

Forwards (16):

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster) *
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
AN Other
AN Other
AN Other

dublin_dave wrote: haha love it sin. the excitement about the removal of the square ball has reached feverpitch in the royal. mark ward is working on muscles on the soles of his feet to play full forward and hit the 6ft10 mark

i have seen some cringe worthy behaviour from fans of all provinces but dont take it to personally. too much drink is the driving factor. it happens. just hate seeing it at ireland games when were all meant to be on the same side

Not mad about that kind of behaviour myself. If you blame drink for knackerish behaviour off the field, what do you blame Sexton's knackerish behaviour on the field?

Feckless Rogue wrote:The whole "dislike the snooty gits from the big city" is not unique to Ireland. People in the south of France dislike Parisens. Cockney was originally an insulting term for Londoners. New Yorkers are widely despised in rural America. I don't have a major problem with Munster fans disliking Leinster or vice versa. They're big rivals. It adds to the spice.

I just hate it when it isn't totally shelved when the Irish team get together.

Dislike is putting it mildly, and its not really a two way street in France because in the northern half and around Paris rugby isn't all that popular. I do have a problem with fans disliking each other, it shouldn't be like that. I love going to rugby and being able to joke and slag the opposition fans but at the end of the game we can go for a drink together and talk like friends. Its the same with the GAA, for the most part, go to the match sit with the opposition fans and go out afterwards. I've to too many football matches were I've seen people getting beaten or stabbed due to fans disliking each other for no reason other than happening to support another team. Its not on.

On the media support for Kidney, it was the same with EOS til the bitter end. As someone who works in the media, all be it a different country, there are certain issues that compromise journalists such as Thornley who is working really hard to keep his access to the camp. Unfortunately for him it is really compromising is writing which used to be really good, as he is blinded to whats really going on as he is too close to the players and doesn't want to criticise players he needs to work with. Another thing about Kidney is that aside from one hammering by New Zealand we have never really being hammered badly enough to turn opinion. I think questions should be asked but I would hate to see us follow the football press again.


And finally on the Madigan/Jackson issue, if Rog or Sexton goes down I would suspect Jackson will be called up due to the fact that he will still be playing training whereas Madigan will be on holiday.

SinE - is this something you feel he has continued to show during matches or is this one incident, in one game, several years ago.

regarding cited fly halves

im sure butch james has got a load of citings for his flying headbutts

Sin é wrote:

dublin_dave wrote: haha love it sin. the excitement about the removal of the square ball has reached feverpitch in the royal. mark ward is working on muscles on the soles of his feet to play full forward and hit the 6ft10 mark

i have seen some cringe worthy behaviour from fans of all provinces but dont take it to personally. too much drink is the driving factor. it happens. just hate seeing it at ireland games when were all meant to be on the same side

Not mad about that kind of behaviour myself. If you blame drink for knackerish behaviour off the field, what do you blame Sexton's knackerish behaviour on the field?

I presume you are similarily appalled by ROG trying to kick an Osprey player in a ruck and then trying to trip another one in the lead up to one of their tries in the rabo semi and will develop a hatred of him now?

val, the fans do get on very well in rugby really. I just have no problem with say, Leinster fans being jealous of Munsters 2 HC's. Or Munster fans hoping Leinster don't exceed that record and hoping they lose. I don't think all Irish people have to love all 4 provinces. Rivalries are fine.

Anyway my point is that it really should be forgotten and shelved when Ireland play. Ireland are everyone's team and every irishman is proud to wear the green jersey.

red_stag wrote:SinE - is this something you feel he has continued to show during matches or is this one incident, in one game, several years ago.

Two incidents. The ROG incident was just knackerish, the Mafi incident was vicious. Leopards don't change their spots.

Oh, and for the record - I don't hate him. I just don't like him.

Feckless Rogue wrote:val, the fans do get on very well in rugby really. I just have no problem with say, Leinster fans being jealous of Munsters 2 HC's. Or Munster fans hoping Leinster don't exceed that record and hoping they lose. I don't think all Irish people have to love all 4 provinces. Rivalries are fine.

Anyway my point is that it really should be forgotten and shelved when Ireland play. Ireland are everyone's team and every irishman is proud to wear the green jersey.

No rivalry is grand, I just don't think it should overspill into dislike of other supporters. Ireland is the be all and end all of rugby for me. I have connections with all four provinces and moved a lot when I was younger so like to see them all do well even if Ulster comes first.

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:

dublin_dave wrote: haha love it sin. the excitement about the removal of the square ball has reached feverpitch in the royal. mark ward is working on muscles on the soles of his feet to play full forward and hit the 6ft10 mark

i have seen some cringe worthy behaviour from fans of all provinces but dont take it to personally. too much drink is the driving factor. it happens. just hate seeing it at ireland games when were all meant to be on the same side

Not mad about that kind of behaviour myself. If you blame drink for knackerish behaviour off the field, what do you blame Sexton's knackerish behaviour on the field?

I presume you are similarily appalled by ROG trying to kick an Osprey player in a ruck and then trying to trip another one in the lead up to one of their tries in the rabo semi and will develop a hatred of him now?

If he was cited and banned, yep, I wouldn't be too happy with ROG. Sexton kicked Mafi in the head, by the way (he got treatment for a cut over his eye).

Did you develop a similar hatred for John Hayes after this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpqDB1N4GOI

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:

dublin_dave wrote: haha love it sin. the excitement about the removal of the square ball has reached feverpitch in the royal. mark ward is working on muscles on the soles of his feet to play full forward and hit the 6ft10 mark

i have seen some cringe worthy behaviour from fans of all provinces but dont take it to personally. too much drink is the driving factor. it happens. just hate seeing it at ireland games when were all meant to be on the same side

Not mad about that kind of behaviour myself. If you blame drink for knackerish behaviour off the field, what do you blame Sexton's knackerish behaviour on the field?

I presume you are similarily appalled by ROG trying to kick an Osprey player in a ruck and then trying to trip another one in the lead up to one of their tries in the rabo semi and will develop a hatred of him now?

If he was cited and banned, yep, I wouldn't be too happy with ROG. Sexton kicked Mafi in the head, by the way (he got treatment for a cut over his eye).

He was cited nor banned but neither was Sexton so what's your point? You either hate that both players did or dismiss both incidents, you can't have double standards.

Off topic, but that was actually a great piece of decisive officiating from the Assisstant Ref. Wish that was the norm.

Notch wrote:Did you develop a similar hatred for John Hayes after this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpqDB1N4GOI

I was at that match, it was quite funny when everyone realised that it was Hayes who was sent off. A moment of shock followed by both sets of fans applauding him off. Shows the regard fans of all Irish teams held him in.

In other news.........

http://www.kidneyclock.net/

valjester wrote:
He was cited nor banned but neither was Sexton so what's your point? You either hate that both players did or dismiss both incidents, you can't have double standards.

You've been around long enough to know he can.

Notch wrote:Off topic, but that was actually a great piece of decisive officiating from the Assisstant Ref. Wish that was the norm.

If you watched the Sharks v the Cheetahs at the weekend, you would have seen some great officials by all involved in a number of incidents. The touch judges knew exactly what they were on about and explained it clearly and correctly.

BoyneRFC wrote:In other news.........

http://www.kidneyclock.net/

Im loving the kidney clock

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

BoyneRFC wrote:In other news.........

http://www.kidneyclock.net/

Im loving the kidney clock

That is quality, let's all pray that it doesn't get extended!

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:

dublin_dave wrote: haha love it sin. the excitement about the removal of the square ball has reached feverpitch in the royal. mark ward is working on muscles on the soles of his feet to play full forward and hit the 6ft10 mark

i have seen some cringe worthy behaviour from fans of all provinces but dont take it to personally. too much drink is the driving factor. it happens. just hate seeing it at ireland games when were all meant to be on the same side

Not mad about that kind of behaviour myself. If you blame drink for knackerish behaviour off the field, what do you blame Sexton's knackerish behaviour on the field?

I presume you are similarily appalled by ROG trying to kick an Osprey player in a ruck and then trying to trip another one in the lead up to one of their tries in the rabo semi and will develop a hatred of him now?

If he was cited and banned, yep, I wouldn't be too happy with ROG. Sexton kicked Mafi in the head, by the way (he got treatment for a cut over his eye).

I can't pretend that I understand your rationale. However to be fair you were asked for your reason and you gave it.

.......one thing I hate more than hypocrites are ignorant hypocrites.

valjester wrote:


He was cited nor banned but neither was Sexton so what's your point? You either hate that both players did or dismiss both incidents, you can't have double standards.

Sexton was cited and banned (much to everyone's surprise because back then, no one got cited or banned in an interprovincial)!

Do you have a clip of the O'Gara incidents. Didn't realise he was cited.

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:


He was cited nor banned but neither was Sexton so what's your point? You either hate that both players did or dismiss both incidents, you can't have double standards.

Sexton was cited and banned (much to everyone's surprise because back then, no one got cited or banned in an interprovincial)!

Do you have a clip of the O'Gara incidents. Didn't realise he was cited.

He wasn't cited, I'll look and see if I can find a clip.


Edit; they all appear to have been taken down. It was from one of the three tries which started after Rog was turned over after running into contact.

red_stag wrote:

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:

dublin_dave wrote: haha love it sin. the excitement about the removal of the square ball has reached feverpitch in the royal. mark ward is working on muscles on the soles of his feet to play full forward and hit the 6ft10 mark

i have seen some cringe worthy behaviour from fans of all provinces but dont take it to personally. too much drink is the driving factor. it happens. just hate seeing it at ireland games when were all meant to be on the same side

Not mad about that kind of behaviour myself. If you blame drink for knackerish behaviour off the field, what do you blame Sexton's knackerish behaviour on the field?

I presume you are similarily appalled by ROG trying to kick an Osprey player in a ruck and then trying to trip another one in the lead up to one of their tries in the rabo semi and will develop a hatred of him now?

If he was cited and banned, yep, I wouldn't be too happy with ROG. Sexton kicked Mafi in the head, by the way (he got treatment for a cut over his eye).

I can't pretend that I understand your rationale. However to be fair you were asked for your reason and you gave it.

You don't understand my rationale that kicking someone in the head is just vicious and the complete opposite of the kind of behaviour you expect from rugby players.

SinE, I wasnt happy he did it. However I think you are making way too big a deal about it. It was a once off incident that happened years ago. I have seen John Hayes and Jerry Flannery receive lengthy bans for stamping on players heads. However I would be surprised would someone hold it against them.

I see absolutely nothing to suggest that Sexton has a vicious streak in him. It was a once off incident that you are making way too big a deal about.

So what about stamping on someone's head as they lay prostrate on the floor?

Sexton did something reprehensable, so have plenty of Munster players, so have plenty of Leinster and Ulster players. It happens in the heat of battle.

To state that Sexton should be singled out is stupid and childish.

Peter Clohessy had a nasty habit of standing on peoples heads, but he pours a nice pint of so hes redeemed himself in my eyes.....

Lads, question. Are we going to see the same tactics that have frustrated all of us for the last couple of years or is Kidney going to use the weapons at his disposal properly?

I know there are some questionable calls in the squad but you can make a good team out of the players picked.

Mickado wrote:Lads, question. Are we going to see the same tactics that have frustrated all of us for the last couple of years or is Kidney going to use the weapons at his disposal properly?

I know there are some questionable calls in the squad but you can make a good team out of the players picked.

Mick mick mick mick mick - I thought we killed off all that optimism in Twickenham back in March. Not to worry I'm sure we'll do the usual - fall short BUT claim the plucky defeat gong nonetheless.

Mickado wrote:Lads, question. Are we going to see the same tactics that have frustrated all of us for the last couple of years or is Kidney going to use the weapons at his disposal properly?

My pennysworth is that BOD will have a big infuence on the tactics once we take the field. We won't see Leinsters slick ofloading game but I think he will demand quicker service from 9 and a bit more ambition with the ball.

Did you read the WoC blog today about our kicking.

Very good read…

http://whiffofcordite.com/

Oh and I never said I was optimistic, I just didn’t want to spread my gloom on people…

Sin é wrote:
Billy, I know you are a bit clueless about Munster support if you had no inkling was but why Sexton is not popular with the masses, why does his godfather in an national newspaper feel the need to tell us what a nice lad he is really every time Sexton plays for Ireland.

And Billy, Sexton doesn't have too many fans on munsterfans for some reason. He has close enough connections to Munster rugby (his uncle Willie played for Garryowen, Munster & Ireland and has a pub in the town).

I don't like him (or rate him) because of that nasty, vicious streak in him. I don't rate him because as an outhalf, if he can't control himself, he isn't going to control the game when things are not going his way.

Now, I wonder is Sexton the only outhalf ever to have been cited?

So you are still bitter about something Sexton did 3 years ago, and the reason you think he hasn't been a good outhalf all this time, and criticised him so much on these forums, is because he wasn't able to control himself 3 years ago?

*FACE PALM*

Ahhhh...it's good to be back to the threads where we all hug each other and agree with each other and finally all sing from the same hymn sheet......................................................



Here's to a harmonious New Zealand tour with Kidney doing everything right, the players genuinely wanting to play rugby and the various Provincial pals joining in a sing song of mutual respect and happiness...................... and a pig flying on a Massey Ferguson tractor with his pink jumper across his shoulder and his shades at D4 skull level 24 B for perfect smugness.

geoff998rugby wrote:Sexton did something reprehensable, so have plenty of Munster players, so have plenty of Leinster and Ulster players. It happens in the heat of battle.

To state that Sexton should be singled out is stupid and childish.

I don't recall too many Leinster, Ulster or Munster backs getting cited for kicking another back (and drawing blood) in the head.

Pretty much all of the incidents that are mentioned here are completely different situations in that they involve forwards when rucking or mauling. Sexton was tackled, didn't like it (fair enough), lashes out at mafi's head with his boot and mafi gets sent off for brawling. I think Ronnie McCormack actually sat on Sexton to quieten him.

The scenes of Sexton screaming at O'Gara remind me of another sport involving a very angry Corkman (Roy Keane intimidating a ref)!

You all say you love Rugby and how nice and friendly it is, but if the players can't show respect to the opposition, how do you think the fans to respect them (either the players or the opposition fans)? You'd swear no Leinster / Ulster fan ever said boo to O'Gara when playing for Ireland.

I am lost for words at this point.

Sin has a way of taking your breath away with the sheer audacity of his excuses.

Claiming that it's not that bad for a forward to kick a player in the head in a ruck or maul is taking things to a new level.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I am lost for words at this point.

Thank God Rory. I honestly thought I was the only one. At least you can keep your cool. I wish I had that quality.

Si....... actually, why bother...

I don't recall too many Leinster, Ulster or Munster backs getting cited for kicking another back (and drawing blood) in the head.

Just, just, unreal.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Sin has a way of taking your breath away with the sheer audacity of his excuses.

Claiming that it's not that bad for a forward to kick a player in the head in a ruck or maul is taking things to a new level.

Hand on a second now. I did not say it was ok for anyone to kick anyone.

Most incidents that I can think of are accidental - for instance, Shane Jennings got suspended for gouging. I don't think there was anything malicious in what happened there. Same with Quinlan & Cullen. I don't think Warburton was trying to mame Clerc either.

I don't think Sexton was trying to decapitate Mafi if I am perfectly honest either.. which you would assume he was trying to do by your response.

Most incidents that I can think of are accidental - for instance, Shane Jennings got suspended for gouging. I don't think there was anything malicious in what happened there. Same with Quinlan & Cullen. I don't think Warburton was trying to mame Clerc either.

Normally you can tell an idiot from the way they write. This is not the case with you. I actually reckon you have alot more smarts than the average troll.... I think this is why people are so confounded by your opinions.

You still havent commented on Hayes trampling on Healys head.

Healy- a fellow Ireland international. Obviously not, cause DA BULL IS A LIGIND !!!!

Right on.

Shane Jennings got suspended for contact with the eye area and it was low end. Calling it gouging is sensationalising.

Remember when we argued over zebo/Gilroy/Kearney jr.


i miss those times.......

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Sin has a way of taking your breath away with the sheer audacity of his excuses.

Claiming that it's not that bad for a forward to kick a player in the head in a ruck or maul is taking things to a new level.

Hand on a second now. I did not say it was ok for anyone to kick anyone.

Most incidents that I can think of are accidental - for instance, Shane Jennings got suspended for gouging. I don't think there was anything malicious in what happened there. Same with Quinlan & Cullen. I don't think Warburton was trying to mame Clerc either.

I never claimed you said it was okay,I said you are claiming a back intentionally kicking a player in the head away from a ruck or maul is unforgivable but a forward doing it in a ruck or maul isn't that bad.
Just look at the reaction of every other poster to your comment,if that isn't how you intended that comment to be interpreted then that's your fault for not explaining it properly.

Sin e stop for your own sake - you are starting to make yourself look foolish

Sin é wrote:
The scenes of Sexton screaming at O'Gara remind me of another sport involving a very angry Corkman (Roy Keane intimidating a ref)!

I think if O'Gara can get over that one and probably, in his laid back eff it attitude, laugh the whole thing off now..and if I'm sure he's shooting the breeze with Sexton in their International training camps...I think we can all lay it to rest.

No, I didn't like it at the time...but I did learn to love it for its sense of epic drama..and seeing the inner demons of a young player's frustrations coming to bear. That's sport...Keane's moment is epic too. And they both remind me of the famous picture of Mohamed Ali's glowering moment as he stands above Sonny Liston. It can all be ugly in the moment but it becomes iconic as a slice of sporting history.

BoyneRFC wrote:
I honestly thought I was the only one.

Nope .

What were you all doing 3 years ago lads?

I was a philandering drunkard who lived with his parents and wouldn’t eat anything unless it was beige.
And look at me now! I move out of home 2 weeks ago!

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:
The scenes of Sexton screaming at O'Gara remind me of another sport involving a very angry Corkman (Roy Keane intimidating a ref)!

I think if O'Gara can get over that one and probably, in his laid back eff it attitude, laugh the whole thing off now..and if I'm sure he's shooting the breeze with Sexton in their International training camps...I think we can all lay it to rest.

No, I didn't like it at the time...but I did learn to love it for its sense of epic drama..and seeing the inner demons of a young player's frustrations coming to bear. That's sport...Keane's moment is epic too. And they both remind me of the famous picture of Mohamed Ali's glowering moment as he stands above Sonny Liston. It can all be ugly in the moment but it becomes iconic as a slice of sporting history.

Here here!

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Sin has a way of taking your breath away with the sheer audacity of his excuses.

Claiming that it's not that bad for a forward to kick a player in the head in a ruck or maul is taking things to a new level.

Hand on a second now. I did not say it was ok for anyone to kick anyone.

Most incidents that I can think of are accidental - for instance, Shane Jennings got suspended for gouging. I don't think there was anything malicious in what happened there. Same with Quinlan & Cullen. I don't think Warburton was trying to mame Clerc either.

I never claimed you said it was okay,I said you are claiming a back intentionally kicking a player in the head away from a ruck or maul is unforgivable but a forward doing it in a ruck or maul isn't that bad.
Just look at the reaction of every other poster to your comment,if that isn't how you intended that comment to be interpreted then that's your fault for not explaining it properly.

OK, its my fault for not explaining it better.

Because of the amount of close contact a forward will take, they are far more likely to get into tricky situations, most of it accidental because of that close proximity and players being in vulnerable positions. For instance, the last 8/10 ERC citings were of forwards.

Citings involving backs tend to be of the high tackle/loose arms variety.

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Sin has a way of taking your breath away with the sheer audacity of his excuses.

Claiming that it's not that bad for a forward to kick a player in the head in a ruck or maul is taking things to a new level.

Hand on a second now. I did not say it was ok for anyone to kick anyone.

Most incidents that I can think of are accidental - for instance, Shane Jennings got suspended for gouging. I don't think there was anything malicious in what happened there. Same with Quinlan & Cullen. I don't think Warburton was trying to mame Clerc either.

I never claimed you said it was okay,I said you are claiming a back intentionally kicking a player in the head away from a ruck or maul is unforgivable but a forward doing it in a ruck or maul isn't that bad.
Just look at the reaction of every other poster to your comment,if that isn't how you intended that comment to be interpreted then that's your fault for not explaining it properly.

OK, its my fault for not explaining it better.

Because of the amount of close contact a forward will take, they are far more likely to get into tricky situations, most of it accidental because of that close proximity and players being in vulnerable positions. For instance, the last 8/10 ERC citings were of forwards.

Citings involving backs tend to be of the high tackle/loose arms variety.

AH ! OK !!

Makes complete sense now !!!