Tip Tackle

Well so now the world cup is over is the tip tackle gone back from the eye of referees?

On the weekend was made a tip tackle by Brumbies flank Hooper on Victor Vito. Sanction? Red card? Yellow card? No. It was just penalty.

Later after was Hooper become star of the game and make a win for Brumbies.

What if this character (who otherwise was maybe best player on the game) get selected to Wallabies then make the same tackle against Wales in the test? Will be more inconsistentcy and which kind?

There has been quite a number of cards and bans for tip tackles earlier in the Super XV this year, however the same situation happened when Kaplan was officiating this weekend in SA. His explanation was that it was on the lower scale of the offence and only gave a penalty.

I think that Lynden Bray has asked referees to be a little more lenient after the many bans earlier in the season.

Since Sam's red card, I have seen many many worse tackles and none getting anything more than a yellow.

I've also seen plenty of solid well worked tackles that have been given yellows when they shouldn't even have had a penalty awarded for.

I'm not going to dispute Sam's red but some consistency would be nice.

Sam deserved his red IMO.

No one asked

And then there was the tip tackle by Carl Hayman on Ngwenya in the Amlin final on Tuesday, where Hayman didn't just tip him but drove him into the ground. Decision by Wayne Barnes - yellow card. Was as clear a red card as possible to get! No wonder Barnes has been demoted by the IRB

I can't believe people still think Warburton was hard done by.

BELIEVE

HERSH wrote:I can't believe people still think Warburton was hard done by.

HE WAS

Never, the Ref had it spot on it's all the other Refs who lack the bottle shown by Rolland on that fateful night for Welsh rugby.

HERSH wrote:I can't believe people still think Warburton was hard done by.

He was only hard done by if there are plenty examples of similar tackles NOT getting reds - there are. Hayman's last week was a great example. All such tackles should be red.

So in a way Rolland should receive an apology from every rugby fan that had the nerve to knock him for getting it spot on.

Abandon all hope for this thread, HERSH will use it to stoke his fires on cold lonely nights with WC 2003 VHS on loop and a pint of bitter...

biltongbek wrote: His explanation was that it was on the lower scale of the offence and only gave a penalty. I think that Lynden Bray has asked referees to be a little more lenient after the many bans earlier in the season.

But the directive from IRB was for "lower end" to be yellow card and no leniency. Has lyden bray correct authority to making the change to referee directorship?

I think you mean Referee Dictatorship

Hopefully the powers that be are starting to put the "tip tackle " into its true perspective. Its only a manufactured offence, as recently as three or four years ago it wasnt even an offence.

God only knows how rugby survived for over a 100 years without the Tip tackle.

HERSH wrote:I can't believe people still think Warburton was hard done by.

He was

Do people really truely believe that he shouldnt have been sent off. Blimeyi almost hope wales get to another semi next world cup- just so they can shut it about this supposed injustice!

mystiroakey wrote:Do people really truely believe that he shouldnt have been sent off. Blimeyi almost hope wales get to another semi next world cup- just so they can shut it about this supposed injustice!

I said -

Since Sam's red card, I have seen many many worse tackles and none getting anything more than a yellow.

I've also seen plenty of solid well worked tackles that have been given yellows when they shouldn't even have had a penalty awarded for.

I'm not going to dispute Sam's red but some consistency would be nice.

Hersh trolled and most of the thread went down from there...

if a thread by anotherworldofpain doesnt derail i will eat my hat..

what did anyone expect with this subject matter- however get over the red card- it was deserved - move on lads!

No one has brought up the red as being unfair except when Hersh did and people took the bait.

Now, back to the thread, do you think the carding of 'tip tackles' has been consistent since Sam received his ?

I suspect that the "tip tackle" has not been enforced recently to the same extent as it was just seven months ago when the World cup was on.

munkian wrote:No one has brought up the red as being unfair except when Hersh did and people took the bait.

Now, back to the thread, do you think the carding of 'tip tackles' has been consistent since Sam received his ?

probally not, and i agree its a shame it didnt set a precedent. However name one sport where a big decision based on the letter of the law has been consitant after.

Also refs in rugby is more about interpretation- best thing to do is dont tip tackle- even if you may get away with it sometimes you wont allways

Unfortunately though it means a lot of decent tackles are being penalized.

But Sams was a straight red, so there can be no complaints about that one.

yep straight red it was- well done ref- did his job well. Refs dont get enough praise do they. Maybe its time we rewarded good decisions- maybe thats what they need to become more consitant.I propose we give em a treat of a beef flavored monster munch every time they make a good call!

HERSH wrote:I can't believe people still think Warburton was hard done by.

I can believe the poster is still pretending to be a non-English speaker !!!

anotherworldofpain wrote:Well so now the world cup is over is the tip tackle gone back from the eye of referees?

On the weekend was made a tip tackle by Brumbies flank Hooper on Victor Vito. Sanction? Red card? Yellow card? No. It was just penalty.

Later after was Hooper become star of the game and make a win for Brumbies.

What if this character (who otherwise was maybe best player on the game) get selected to Wallabies then make the same tackle against Wales in the test? Will be more inconsistentcy and which kind?

Just watching a replay of the Brumbies v Hurricanes game, the tackle (about 48 th muminute),yes one of his legs was above his head,yes he landed on his head first, the ref (Lawrence) was about 2 metres away with good view, Vito wasnt hurt and didnt try to milk it, Lawrence didnt even bother to consult his touchie, awarded a penalty.

Thing is, six months ago that game would have seen the Brumbies reduced to 14 men for if not 10 then maybe 32 minutes,which would have been a miscarriage as Hooper was playing a very solid game ,and he later went on to score an excellant try. Common sense prevailed.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Hopefully the powers that be are starting to put the "tip tackle " into its true perspective. Its only a manufactured offence, as recently as three or four years ago it wasnt even an offence.

God only knows how rugby survived for over a 100 years without the Tip tackle.

That is what I meant with the Lynden Bray issue, there has been a tendency where tip tackles have been dominating matches and there needs to be a balance.

mystiroakey wrote:yep straight red it was- well done ref- did his job well. Refs dont get enough praise do they. Maybe its time we rewarded good decisions- maybe thats what they need to become more consitant.I propose we give em a treat of a beef flavored monster munch every time they make a good call!

Mystir, referees get criticised due to the laws, I think most of us agree with that, it still doesn't help that there are far too many inconsistencies.

It is only logical that one supporter will compare a tiptackle/offence with another team and complain if the inconsistencies meant disadvantage to their teams.

I would think it isn't hard to understand that.

bilt your point is, or cant you understand jokes?

Somtimes, I do understand them, other times they go way over my head.

I have seen some very decent tackles be deemed a 'tip tackle' and players carded and i have seen some genuine 'tip tackles' and seen no action. Consistency is the key here but i doubt that we will ever really have that.

As for Warburton, again, it was a red card by the letter of the law and Rolland got it spot on. It would not have been such an issue if there had been precedent set so i can fully understand some of the Welsh fans annoyance with the decision as it appeared pretty much out of the blue and was in a RWC semi final.

Well, I just wanted to make a comment on the inconsistencies.

I didn't mean to be harsh on mystir.

And I didn't get the joke.

it was satrical based on hershes comment- maybe not the best one- but the monster munch could have been a clue

I did get the monster munch.

It was the bit before that I didn't get.

Come on biltong, keep up sunshine

Tip tackles look really bad, surprised they don't result in injuries every time. Imagine bouncing on your head like that. Red is such a harsh punishment though and I reckon should be more for things like gouging.

Most tip tackles are just over excitement in the tackle. Blanket yellow card for me, as it's not really cricket if you compare tip tackles with other penalty offenses and you just get a penalty for it.

EBOP, Thanks mate, I'll try.

On a serious note. the biggest problem with the tip tackle is obviously that it is dangerous.

But how does a referee identify the intent with which a tip tackle is made, hence it is very difficult to decide how you should penalise a player. ost of the tip tackles I have seen is not mal intended and yet can end looking very bad.

The current way of dealing with it isn't really working.

You either need to deal with it very harshly to nip it in the butt, of alternatively you need to find a solution of how to deal with it onfield.

I still have a bit of an issue with cards as a sanction.

Playing with one or two players less effectively kills the contest, I would much rather see the offending player given his marching orders, but allow the team to bring on a replacement and then ban the player for a length of time, depending the offence.

There is a lot of money at stake these days, when you look at Basket ball, they work on a system where by a certain number of fouls (not sure how many) the plaer will eventually have to leave the court.

So coaches usually gets rid of the player just before he can commit the last fatal foul that would send him off.

If rugby had a system where the player is carded, but allows a replacement, whole team won't pay for the offence of one individual, and the team can still work around that for the next match where the player may possibly be banned from

carded with a replacement- that isnt a punishment at all. Almost like a free sub. Players could be used as suicide bombers and then stick a new one on.. lol

you still get a penalty from it, and the team doesn't have the player around for the next match.

Use the Warburton tip tackle as an example. Yes according to the law it was correct. But in a semi final of a world cup to play without your captain who in my view is not a dirty player or thug, for the rest of the match effectively takes a lot away from the spectacle it should be.

A ban would mean he is not avaiable for the final if wales did win, but then at least they compete with 15 men on the field.

it wouldnt work dude. it really wouldnt.Cynical teams would just stock up on soldiers for the cause.

its simple bilt- we know the rules- dont tip tackle or you 'may' get punished

Perhaps you are too cynical about teams wanting to play that way.

I come from a land where we are seen as thugs most of the time, and I don't believe any professional player will continue to do this with intent.

There is still such a thing as mutual respect in our sport.

bilt its just the way high profile team sport goes. Its not an option in my opinion and never will be. Players/teams need to be punished. The law would provide another angle and the game could turn very ugly

Ah, well, I beleive sport needs to be competed on a level basis.

In 2010 Mitchell from australia recieved a red cad in a match during the Tri Nations for firstly recieving a yellow card that the referee got totally wrong, there wasn't even a case for a penalty, then on his second yellow card was sent off permanently, now that killed the match and somehow any victory over a team where an opponent unfailry cops a red card is just not right.

Deal with these punishements or citings after the match, people pay good money to see these contests.

Make the penalty quota low enough (5 per player) so that players get ejected each game, as in basketball. Would force coaches to use the bench involutary or have fewer fresh players available when the team needs them most. When you're out of subs, bring out the yellows. Could make it interesting, bit radical mind you.

Actually, stupid idea, McCaw wouldn't see much game time

No, i think that is a great idea.

Its going to happen everynow and then biltong, players are going to be unjustly sent off. Its a part of the game. Alternatively, there are going to be players not sent off for doing cynical things.

The answer is not to have red card replacements, the answer is there already but its not been consistent. Between an Assistent referee and a referee, they should be able to make a good judgement call. This is where its failing not the rules.

I am just shooting the breeze here billy. Talking nonsense to stay awake.