Losing to Wales describe as "Embarrassment".

First topic message reminder :

For world's second best team Wallabies, they describing potential lost to Wales would be embarrassment according to Australian newspaper (I putting the link beneath).

What do colleague posters think about it? My mind is a bit unfair although Australia #2 87.99 and Wales #5 83.32 so because home games Australia by ranking should win by more than 1 try each game. But also compare both teams make the semi-final RWC so maybe can be a bit more closer even though "Aussies" one the last 4 matchings including important world cup playoff and not lost for five years.

"CONCERNS that the Wallabies may suffer an embarrassment similar to losing to Samoa last season and Scotland in 2009 have convinced Test selectors to force key players to back up three times in one week when the international series starts next month.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/call-of-duty-for-ambushed-wallabies-20120521-1z192.html#ixzz1vflO7DZv
"

Indeed. And beating a team whose fans are singing and crowing pre match is all the more sweet

munkian wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Munkian, perhaps more low key than sensitive

My objection was more to people painting the Welsh as bad fans, it all depends on who you meet. I was standing next to some Sprignbok fans during a Wales v SA game (forget which, it was rather close though) and they were some of the most stuck and arrogant 'fans' I have ever met.

On the otherhand theres a very quiet and soft spoke SA dude that has been to Cardiff with me to watch a few games and hes the nicest down to earth person you'll ever meet.

my objection wasnt with the fans .Fans will be fans .We all have blind belief in our teams no matter who they're facing .If the Boks go up against the All blacks i fully xpect them to win everytime . They dont but you can be guaranteed the next game i expect them to win again ! but i digress

My objection is with the legends, the coaches and the media .especially the first two .Gatland in particular is very guilty of downtalking the other team more than any other coach currently .Even PDivvy our regular pothead didnt go to the media telling them how the other team does not play rugby etc and yes Gatland has been qouted saying that

I'll tell you this though, I cringe when my fellow coutrymen gloat like a bunch of drunk teenagers at their first drinking party. I find it higly embarressing

Bullsbok wrote:

munkian wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Munkian, perhaps more low key than sensitive

My objection was more to people painting the Welsh as bad fans, it all depends on who you meet. I was standing next to some Sprignbok fans during a Wales v SA game (forget which, it was rather close though) and they were some of the most stuck and arrogant 'fans' I have ever met.

On the otherhand theres a very quiet and soft spoke SA dude that has been to Cardiff with me to watch a few games and hes the nicest down to earth person you'll ever meet.

my objection wasnt with the fans .Fans will be fans .We all have blind belief in our teams no matter who they're facing .If the Boks go up against the All blacks i fully xpect them to win everytime . They dont but you can be guaranteed the next game i expect them to win again ! but i digress

My objection is with the legends, the coaches and the media .especially the first two .Gatland in particular is very guilty of downtalking the other team more than any other coach currently .Even PDivvy our regular pothead didnt go to the media telling them how the other team does not play rugby etc and yes Gatland has been qouted saying that

In Gatland's defense he hasn't done that in a ages, I think he's learnt from his mistakes.

And yes Bil, agree completely

Ha I remember P Divvy saying that what SBW was doing "wasn't rugby".

It's not just rugby too Biltong. I hate it when I see Kiwis making idiots of themselves abroad. I wish they'd never been given passports.

Gatland I like to think has learnt his lessons, he was pretty bad beforehand.

I,too,am of an age where I can remember it being an embarrassment to lose to Australia.That wheel keeps on turning.
Some older English posters were scarred in the 60/70's and have born a grudge ever since.Sad really.

stirring the pot today taff lol/ Would you agree its abit sad , or maybe you hold a wee grudge

To be honest I think there's been grudges between the English and Welsh since about the 6th century AD

Kiwireddevil wrote:To be honest I think there's been grudges between the English and Welsh since about the 6th century AD

Yup since the English moved in from France

Taffineastbourne wrote:I,too,am of an age where I can remember it being an embarrassment to lose to Australia.That wheel keeps on turning.
Some older English posters were scarred in the 60/70's and have born a grudge ever since.Sad really.

I dont think he is wrong though. For many English rugby fans of a certain age, the relish with which they have mocked the welsh failure in the 90s and the dismissal of the success since 2005 is born out of a real fear for them. The fear that just as in their youth the red rose is going to go back to being humilitaed home and away by their jumped up neighbours.

What Ive noticed is the cries of how bad the welsh are and the sniping of English fans gets worse as the welsh team gets more successful. With nothing but a devalued championship win in the trophy cabinet for almost a decade(and that included a mighty defeat to the Irish) and you can see why the wummery is getting more desperate (Yes Im looking at you AussieJakexv). Whats worse for them is their greatest fear, that of a resurgent wales seems to be coninciding with their decline back to mediocrity. Sadly fear leads to anger anger leads to hate and hatred leads to the dark side of the wum!

At the moment Im finding it a bit amusing, its like they are going through the kind of civil war we had in the nineties. Disbelief and anger after the RWC have given way denial after a decent showing by lancaster in the 6Nations. You can almost guarrentee that the whitewash they get down under will spark another round of soul searching, is lancaster the right man etc. If that is followed by a poor AI series then English rugby will fall apart and despair will set in amongst the fans. Eventually they will accept their new place in the rugby world order but they may need some old welsh hands who went through the same in the nineties to act as grief counsellers. I nominate Maes he has the kind of caring touch that will help even the most desolate english charioteer through the difficult times ahead.

oh dear lord. lol

you can pretend all you want and think that we care that much- but we just dont pal. good luck to your team by the way. If your current form is a false dawn i really feel for ya. I cant wish bad things on you, you really have nothing else

mystiroakey wrote:oh dear lord. lol

you can pretend all you want and think that we care that much- but we just dont pal. good luck to your team by the way. If your current form is a false dawn i really feel for ya. I cant wish bad things on you, you really have nothing else

of a certain age myst, you would have been what 2 in 79? For the generation that grew up expecting England to win who werent scarred by the preceding century its going to be a whole lot worse. At least if you were ten years older you would have the understanding of what its like to be dismissed when your team played Wales. Acceptance will obviously take longer for the younger english fans. However, soon 2003 will be like 1966 with Lolly dayglow as the new Alan Ball.

I am so sorry to my fellow poster colleagues.

I didn't have the idea this small question would starting the furious contest of words.

football is possibly 10 times more competitive. not even worth comparing pal. england have the best infastructure, largest potential player pool and most money in union. its not over yet dude- its the reason we are back to the top of the pile at cricket- A country of our size can compete in the commonweath- get worldwide and it gets abit tough when we concentrate on so much. Sorry if i got abot to serious in that post- but its fact.

Do yourself a favour dude- dont put to much hope on your team. take up a hobby or something so the blow will be softenened if your team fails again- but lets be honest a semi final isnt really acheving anyway ?? is it?? you need to win the big one - or wales will never be considered a good team.

To be fair, mystir said much earlier he wanted 'all' NH teams to do well, don't see that often, almost fell off my chair.

Don't mean to be an arrogant party pooper, but good luck dethroning SH from the top, takes more than a win here and there. You can only afford to drop the odd game at home and win your fair share away. Something all NH struggle a little with. When the ABs play NH in the NH, we win more than we lose (3 GS in 5 yrs), and also usually win series at home.

Is wales at that stage yet? Could be a bit premature to say 'yes'. Good luck against oz though, they're ripe for the taking, and I wouldn't mind seeing deans squirm a little more.

1. its England AND Wales in the cricket, and lets be fair I grew up with England being pretty useless at cricket barring one series when Botham was on fire in the early eighties. we were second to Australia and the Windies and would have been second to SA had they been involved. English dominance in cricket is a fleeting thing so dont get carried away.

2. Dont England have the best competitive league in soccer with the most players and money? Isnt the FA the richest of all the national assosiciations? yes it is yet on the international side the last 40 years have been complete failure to win anything.

3. Of course my team will fail again what the 90s taught the welsh is that nobody has a god given right to win all the time. We learnt all about failure we understand it perhaps better than anyone in world rugby now. I dont think another team has fallen so far and so spectacularly in the games regards as Wales did. . I dont fear us failing again, It took New Zealand 62 years to get ahead of us in wins head to head, it could take another 62 years for wales to get parity again. Wales will win the RWC Im pretty sure of that. maybe not in 2015 but I wouldnt bet against us at the moment.

1. tycoes i know we are together in cricket- but that is immaterial to the point- sadly you guys are not bolstering the team at present

2. you have missed the point- the point is about competition- there are hardly any teams that play competitive rugby - there are 100 plus in football, england may have the best business sense when it comes to sports i agree, however we invented them all- we play alot of sports to a high level- therefore our loyalties are split;. but considering rugby has a handfull of teams and football has 100- well do i have to explain maths to you??

lol it took 62 years to get ahead of us , i was shocked then i realised it was 3 games in a period of 60 years.

EBOP wrote:To be fair, mystir said much earlier he wanted 'all' NH teams to do well, don't see that often, almost fell off my chair.

Don't mean to be an arrogant party pooper, but good luck dethroning SH from the top, takes more than a win here and there. You can only afford to drop the odd game at home and win your fair share away. Something all NH struggle a little with. When the ABs play NH in the NH, we win more than we lose (3 GS in 5 yrs), and also usually win series at home.

Is wales at that stage yet? Could be a bit premature to say 'yes'. Good luck against oz though, they're ripe for the taking, and I wouldn't mind seeing deans squirm a little more.

Oh yeah MO isnt a troll I know that. and you are totally correct dethroning the SH does take more than a win here and there it takes sustained success over a number of years.

Is wales there yet? well we are in a better position than we have been for 30 years. we have strength in depth accross the pitch, our players are fit and behaving proffesionally. The coaching team is settled and the players are comfortable with each other and the style they play. They built on the good showing in the RWC in the Six Nations. They have confidence and a strength of character that has not been apparent in a welsh team for a very long time. Only Adam and Gethin remain from the generation of players whose confidence was shattered by disastrous defeats. We are at a point where it is all for the taking.

The first test will be key and a win there for wales will see a series win. If we lose there we may sneak a win in a dead rubber 3rd test. Fortunatly the Ozzies are as you say ripe for the taking, their teams are not doing well in the super and they have far more injuries than the welsh. On top of that they have the crazy schedule to deal with. Even if we do get a series win down under it will take more than that before we can truly regard ourselves as back at the top of the tree. We need to win our matches in the autumn and break a 60 year hoodoo. The lions need to win next year as that will be important to the players development. Then as we head into 2014 we need to be a team others worry about playing a team with successive six nations titles behind them (not expecting a slam next year with France away). At that point we will be there, so to answer your question, this team has two or three years of development before they reach their peak. The summer tours for Wales and the lions are vital in that. Fortunatly we both of the next two years we focus on Australia who I think are the weakest of the sanzar teams at the moment. And of course NZ have Hansen so chances of breaking that hoodoo are looking up

Bullsbok wrote:lol it took 62 years to get ahead of us , i was shocked then i realised it was 3 games in a period of 60 years.

shhhh

mystiroakey wrote:1. tycoes i know we are together in cricket- but that is immaterial to the point- sadly you guys are not bolstering the team at present

2. you have missed the point- the point is about competition- there are hardly any teams that play competitive rugby - there are 100 plus in football, england may have the best business sense when it comes to sports i agree, however we invented them all- we play alot of sports to a high level- therefore our loyalties are split;. but considering rugby has a handfull of teams and football has 100- well do i have to explain maths to you??

with all due respect there are hundreds of clubs playing competitive rugby in England at all levels. England has more registered players than the rest of us put together. England have 1.5 million players who turn out for various teams every weekend in the season. Thats half the population of Wales!!! I dare you to wander into Bromsgrove RFC or Trowbridge RFC and tell people there they dont play competitive rugby.

Did the OP actually read the article he links to?

It's about the possible embarrassment of losing to Scotland in their opening match is what they're worried about - the one prior to the Welsh tests.

Talk about getting the wrong end of the stick.

Send this thread onto RDW Scotland - he's the one who should be fulminating....

Kinda almost more to do with embarressing themselves by not giving teams respect rather than embarrassment caused by losing to certain teams.

Maybe the point was lost in translation Luv ya work AWOP.

Back to wales. Tycroes, think your team has earnt much respect from their WC performance. I enjoyed watching the welsh games due to the way they played. However, I'd like to see wales kick on during the next coaching reign to dispell any talk of boom/bust cycles.

Having a string of local welsh coaches vying for the role, that have a hand in coaching sucessful regional teams, and can bring their their philosophies into the national side would be the main goal, wouldn't it? That's the way to build successful long-term legacies. Not by hiring the latest foreign mercenary coach that then buggers off home.

I don't think it's a matter of the coaches or players being arrogant. I'm sure they are aware of the risk. However it would be a shock for the Ausytalian rugby public.

The reality is that Wales hasn't been that successful against SANZAR nations in the professional era. 2 wins against Australia and a win against the boks. All close and all at home. Historically Wales struggles on tour, even when they come down under as 5/6 nations champions. The average score in Australia is 48-12 to Australia. A comparison might be Wales losing in Cardiff to the USA, Canada, Romania or Japan.

That's not to begrudge the current Welsh side who could do well. It's just stating the obvious. The Aussies expect to win at home. The have an 80% record at home since the game went pro and only NZ has been able to win their regularly (10 out of 18 losses have been to NZ). Wales have yet to perform away in Australia (1969 excepted). Until they do Australian fans will expect a wallaby win.

For much the same reason I expect NZ to beat Ireland, and SA to beat England. Away wins down south are hard to come by. For that reason if any side manages to do it they'll get a fair amount of kudos (as per France 1994 and England 2002).

Australia are current 3Ns Champions,and rated Number 2 in the World,THAT was`nt by accident.RWC`s are irrelevant to teams playing outside it Wales had a so /so RWC.Versus The Boks one always felt the Boks had enough to stil win whatever Wales did but it was a brave effort.Despite the Red Card there is no evidence to suggest Wales would have beaten France.Often the sending off encourages greater efforts from the team Concerned.Australia in OZ is a BIG ask for ANY side,Wales winning 1 out of 3 would be a good result.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:1. tycoes i know we are together in cricket- but that is immaterial to the point- sadly you guys are not bolstering the team at present

2. you have missed the point- the point is about competition- there are hardly any teams that play competitive rugby - there are 100 plus in football, england may have the best business sense when it comes to sports i agree, however we invented them all- we play alot of sports to a high level- therefore our loyalties are split;. but considering rugby has a handfull of teams and football has 100- well do i have to explain maths to you??

with all due respect there are hundreds of clubs playing competitive rugby in England at all levels. England has more registered players than the rest of us put together. England have 1.5 million players who turn out for various teams every weekend in the season. Thats half the population of Wales!!! I dare you to wander into Bromsgrove RFC or Trowbridge RFC and tell people there they dont play competitive rugby.

You do know that's just not true don't you? The registered players aren't guys playing every weekend. Most of them are kids. A lot of people are registered for more than one team or stay on the books after moving away or stop playing. The RFU wants largest participation numbers as much as possible for funding purposes.

I have to say this english vs wales "my excuses are better than yours" or "my dad is bigger than your dad" or "you're worse than we are" or "warra warra warra" is getting tedious.

Is the history/rivalry so bad between these two home nations that ever thread involving one of these nations by implication attrack these kind of stone throwings?

In fact my real question is, when are you guys going to get over this?

I understand rivalry, but this is more like two siblings trying to spite each other.

I have never seen two nations begrudge each other their respective successes like this.

It is actually quite sad, to be honest.

Christ Biltiong can you lay off the insults

TycroesOsprey wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:1. tycoes i know we are together in cricket- but that is immaterial to the point- sadly you guys are not bolstering the team at present

2. you have missed the point- the point is about competition- there are hardly any teams that play competitive rugby - there are 100 plus in football, england may have the best business sense when it comes to sports i agree, however we invented them all- we play alot of sports to a high level- therefore our loyalties are split;. but considering rugby has a handfull of teams and football has 100- well do i have to explain maths to you??

with all due respect there are hundreds of clubs playing competitive rugby in England at all levels. England has more registered players than the rest of us put together. England have 1.5 million players who turn out for various teams every weekend in the season. Thats half the population of Wales!!! I dare you to wander into Bromsgrove RFC or Trowbridge RFC and tell people there they dont play competitive rugby.

[obvious joke]And to be fair the Welsh Rabo sides dont play competitive rugby [/obvious joke]

I humbly apologise SIR.

biltongbek wrote:In fact my real question is, when are you guys going to get over this?

I understand rivalry, but this is more like two siblings trying to spite each other.

I have never seen two nations begrudge each other their respective successes like this.

It is actually quite sad, to be honest.

Yours is a country that is what, 150 ? 200 years old ? Our countries have been fighting and raiding each other (more one sided than the other maybe) for well over 1500 years. We've had Kings on each others thrones, wars, the attempted destruction of language and culture. Theres going to be some animosity, rivalry and a bit of sniping. I admit it does get tedious on here sometimes with the same old trolls begrudging success but its worth it when one of us beats the other

I tell you whats embarrassing, that Wales and the other 6Ns sides dont think its that bad when these sides put 50 points on us.
I cant remember the last time the welsh put up a fight against a proper tri nations side on a summer tour, although Im well aware the England Tour From Hell does not make this something we can mock. The odd test win by England and France doesnt change that the Sanzars for the most part take these games at a stroll, losing them is unusual and yes Id say embaressing no matter how good the visiting teams think they are.
England took a series of pooings as world champions, losing in the SH is par for the course. Wales are not on the same level as the Sanzars especially in a summer tour even if they are the best of the NH sides. Sure they can "beat anyone on their day" but you wouldnt want to be the coach of the side that gets them on their day given how rarely that day occurs...especially on summer tour.

If Russia, Georgia, Moldova, Kazakstan etc all had a 606 i'm sure they'd be similar.

There's a lot of past history.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:1. tycoes i know we are together in cricket- but that is immaterial to the point- sadly you guys are not bolstering the team at present

2. you have missed the point- the point is about competition- there are hardly any teams that play competitive rugby - there are 100 plus in football, england may have the best business sense when it comes to sports i agree, however we invented them all- we play alot of sports to a high level- therefore our loyalties are split;. but considering rugby has a handfull of teams and football has 100- well do i have to explain maths to you??

with all due respect there are hundreds of clubs playing competitive rugby in England at all levels. England has more registered players than the rest of us put together. England have 1.5 million players who turn out for various teams every weekend in the season. Thats half the population of Wales!!! I dare you to wander into Bromsgrove RFC or Trowbridge RFC and tell people there they dont play competitive rugby.

Tycoes what are talking about dude?

Struggling to work out how any of that fits in with our conversation. Surely you realised i was talking about international competition(annd the lack of it) as an argument to your comment that the england rugby's RWC win will be seen in the same way as out football world cup win down the road

i do get embaressed by the arguing that goes on here. It seems to spill over to mindless one-upmanship that leaves barely anything related to rugby...

Its nowhere near as bad in real-life, the only reason I enjoy beating the English more than the other home nations is so i can take the p*ss outta some of my mates

EBOP hit the nail on the head for me for Wales in the long run, we need to start seeing welsh coaches coming in and doing well. We've started to see the regions produce the talent, now we need the forward-thinking hands who understand the welsh game from the bottom up to mould that talent to the best it can be.

The main playing problems at the regions in my eyes has been the coaching, especially at the Blues/Ospreys. Scott Johnson was the worst thing to happen to the Ospreys since that tanning salon opened in Swansea. Dai Young's decision making just seemed to get worse and worse while he was at the blues, im not sure he'd know a quality flyhalf if he ran over Dan Carter. Im pretty sure thats why he went to Wasps, Nicky Robinson was always there, hes the only 10 who's done well under Dai, and then Dai sold him!!!!!!

We've seen what a guy who understands the players and the region can do when he has the youngsters respect and they'll play for him, - Tandy, Nigel Davies. Thats the way forward, level-headed coaches with a no-nonsense approach, Exeter is the blueprint for the regions to follow, what they've done with the whole club and ethos is excellant and you can see it still developing.

Saying that, look what happened the last time a welsh coach took the job

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I tell you whats embarrassing, that Wales and the other 6Ns sides dont think its that bad when these sides put 50 points on us.
I cant remember the last time the welsh put up a fight against a proper tri nations side on a summer tour, although Im well aware the England Tour From Hell does not make this something we can mock. The odd test win by England and France doesnt change that the Sanzars for the most part take these games at a stroll, losing them is unusual and yes Id say embaressing no matter how good the visiting teams think they are.
England took a series of pooings as world champions, losing in the SH is par for the course. Wales are not on the same level as the Sanzars especially in a summer tour even if they are the best of the NH sides. Sure they can "beat anyone on their day" but you wouldnt want to be the coach of the side that gets them on their day given how rarely that day occurs...especially on summer tour.

There is some amazing statistic that Ireland always beating the world cup champion next year after winning. Maybe there time to beating all blacks coming.

yappysnap wrote:If Russia, Georgia, Moldova, Kazakstan etc all had a 606 i'm sure they'd be similar.

There's a lot of past history.

True there is.

That doesn't stop the petty little jibes looking like a pair of schoolboys having a tinkywinky measuring contest to the rest of us. Perhaps if certain posters on both sides bore that in mind

+1

anotherworldofpain wrote:For world's second best team Wallabies, they describing potential lost to Wales would be embarrassment according to Australian newspaper (I putting the link beneath)

It's this type of jouranlistic fare i truley detest. It does no one any favours, not the players, the pundits, no one. It can turn what a lot of people want to see, a a damn good game of Rugby where you wave the flag of your side, into a potentially venomous affair - which as far as i am concerned is against the spirit of the sport.

Pure hack journalism. The 6N champs vs. the SH champs should be built up for what everyone will hope it will be. One of the best displays of world class Rugby that can be shown, but no, the trash tabloid hype machine has to try and turn things nasty.

Rant over ... breath .... calm ...

there is nothing wrong with using gatland as your coach at all. its all ablout developing the players- if you develop enough you will allways naturally develop coaches in the long run

mystiroakey wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:1. tycoes i know we are together in cricket- but that is immaterial to the point- sadly you guys are not bolstering the team at present

2. you have missed the point- the point is about competition- there are hardly any teams that play competitive rugby - there are 100 plus in football, england may have the best business sense when it comes to sports i agree, however we invented them all- we play alot of sports to a high level- therefore our loyalties are split;. but considering rugby has a handfull of teams and football has 100- well do i have to explain maths to you??

with all due respect there are hundreds of clubs playing competitive rugby in England at all levels. England has more registered players than the rest of us put together. England have 1.5 million players who turn out for various teams every weekend in the season. Thats half the population of Wales!!! I dare you to wander into Bromsgrove RFC or Trowbridge RFC and tell people there they dont play competitive rugby.

Tycoes what are talking about dude?

Struggling to work out how any of that fits in with our conversation. Surely you realised i was talking about international competition(annd the lack of it) as an argument to your comment that the england rugby's RWC win will be seen in the same way as out football world cup win down the road

Well if thats the case your point is utterly immaterial where is the hundred clubs in Enblish football with international players in? we have a top tier and a championship full of foreigners and a welsh club. The Aviva and dhampionship are directly comparable with the Premiership and championshp. Even the names are similar as the RFU has tried to ape the FA) although the welsh club is beeing excluded from the premiership because the RFU want to change the rules to save Newcastle(didnt do that for London Irish I wonder why the welsh are penalised could it be London Welsh has predominantly welsh qualiified playres and have said they wont stand in the way of welsh team ambition?.Both are leagues dominated by foreighn players yet both are the most successful domestic competitions in their sports. Domestic success not translating into international success a feature of soccer is becoming a feature of English rugby although at least these days English football clubs manage to win European competitions. The English win in 66 became an albatross around the football teams development as people constantly harked back to 66 and placed unreal expectations on the football side. No as 2003 recedes into distant memory it is exactly the same albatross. The RFU have forgotten what got them that win i the first pla e and the fans feel like the have a god given right to be world champions again. Thats the problem and I likened it to wales in the 80s and 90s when the team of the seventies became the ghost the welsh couldnt escape from. That was my point and its pretty obvious so I disagree when you say rugby and football in England arent comparable.

The problem is Myst and Ive said it before is that you dont know much about the game outside of internationals and the odd visit to a premier match (somthing you have opently admitted so its not a troll b4 i get red penned). There is a vast structure taht seems to have missed you.

Tycoes i use common sense pal. Yes i am not the most knowledagable fan but even i was wacthing the championship game last night and i am learning.

Anyway on to the subject its just simple maths.

You are saying that england are past it and will end up in the same way as the england football team. I disagree wholeheartedly with that sentiment. and the facts back me up, its just alot easier to win a RWC than a FIFAWC. Even if both english organisations are the richest in the game

You are saying that wales will deffenently win a rwc but england wont.. odd thing to say dude. It doesnt matter how much we all know about the game, that is just simply ridiculas

TycroesOsprey

I actually never said England wouldnt win a world cup again. That would be a foolish statement. However the domestic competition awash with foreigners and with club vs country rows does not support the international team just as in football. Ive also said that fans unrealistic expectations caused by the 1966 win in football was an albatross around the football teams neck. Similarly since 2003 English rugby fans have had a smiliar attitude. Admnittedly after the 70s welsh fans placed a smiliar bburden of unrealistic expectation on their teams.

Hope you enjoyed the match last night, welsh looked a bit shellshocked at first after the RFU's determination to go to court over the promotion but came back strongly. Living in Surrey you should pop along to see them at some point before they move from old deer park.

Tycroes, there's a few errors in your assumptions above.

London Welsh has a largely Wesh support base (judging by the accents I heard at the LW vs London Scottish match last year), but not that many WQ players in the senior side. There is a bias in favour of the existing clubs in the Prem, but that comes about because the existing Prem clubs got to write the rules.

While LW is being discriminated against somewhat, personally I think "Oxford Welsh" would be a disaster as a Prem team, so it is more a case of right decision, wrong reasons.

Also, the AP isn't "dominated" by foreign players. All of the Prem teams managed to qualify for the RFU's payout for selecting (on average) predominantly English-Qualified match day squads this year.

Ok Tycoes

It was a good game i enjoyed it.

TycroesOsprey wrote:I actually never said England wouldnt win a world cup again. That would be a foolish statement. However the domestic competition awash with foreigners and with club vs country rows does not support the international team just as in football. Ive also said that fans unrealistic expectations caused by the 1966 win in football was an albatross around the football teams neck. Similarly since 2003 English rugby fans have had a smiliar attitude. Admnittedly after the 70s welsh fans placed a smiliar bburden of unrealistic expectation on their teams.

Hope you enjoyed the match last night, welsh looked a bit shellshocked at first after the RFU's determination to go to court over the promotion but came back strongly. Living in Surrey you should pop along to see them at some point before they move from old deer park.

Didn't England make the 2007 final?

As a fan you always aim high, sport has a habit of throwing up strange results from time to time just look at the last RWC, Wales in 4th place!, before that tremendous result Wales would have settled for the QF given their performances before the RWC.

Where is the fun in saying I hope we get out of the group this year?

Awash with foreigners? Well, we were able to get to the final in 2007 and there are fewer foreigners now than then. And dominated with foreigners? All the clubs average less than 35% foreign players so not sure what you mean. Not too many club v country rows either. The England camp has more access to players than ever before, there are limits to the number of games EPS players can play in a season, and the clubs get a big payout. So all in all things are looking pretty rosey for the international side even though the system isn't set up to prioritise it. Not bad really. And loosening the salary cap for acadmey products will help the clubs retain the talent they've developed which will help them out. Again we've managed a couple of finalists in the last 4 years in a system that isn't set up to prioritise Europe.

Also given one of the requirements for a premiership licence is a system built to develop English players, if London Welsh have indicated they want to develop Welsh players they'll never get promoted and should join the Welsh system. Of course there are only 10 out of 38 players who are Welsh in the London Welsh squad. And 21 out of 38 players are English. Seriously, are you just making this up?

Kiwireddevil wrote:Tycroes, there's a few errors in your assumptions above.

London Welsh has a largely Wesh support base (judging by the accents I heard at the LW vs London Scottish match last year), but not that many WQ players in the senior side. There is a bias in favour of the existing clubs in the Prem, but that comes about because the existing Prem clubs got to write the rules.

While LW is being discriminated against somewhat, personally I think "Oxford Welsh" would be a disaster as a Prem team, so it is more a case of right decision, wrong reasons.

Also, the AP isn't "dominated" by foreign players. All of the Prem teams managed to qualify for the RFU's payout for selecting (on average) predominantly English-Qualified match day squads this year.

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Saracens are an example of what you say not being correct. Over a third of players in every Aviva team are non english qualified. The amount of foreign players is way out of proportinon in the Aviva, Personally I care not one jot as it gives welsh players who need a contract somewhere to go if they dont get picked up by the regions but the development of the English international team is hampered by NEQ in the Aviva.

If you look at the team from last night 2/3 were welsh qualified and most came through the academy system. The WRU and welsh did a deal which the RFU were unhappy about so a lot of welsh players are farmed out to london to gain experience thats why you had former scarlets scoring last night. Whilst I love old deer park (lived in richmond for 20 years) the ground is way to small to be redeveloped and oxford looks like the way forward. Just like Irish when they moved to reading I dont see welsh changing their name to Oxford welsh. I dont see how that would be a disaster for the premiership?

The problem for the RFU us that they are changing the rules to discriminate for whatever reasons against LW. They also timed the release of their statement just before the match which was more than unproffessional it was a deliberate attempt to undermine the welsh players before the game. In a court case the RFU are going to be slapped by a judge. Whether than means welsh are in the premiership next season or whether the RFU are going to have to pay out a multimillion pound settlement is yet to be seen but its going to be one or the other.