Losing to Wales describe as "Embarrassment".

First topic message reminder :

For world's second best team Wallabies, they describing potential lost to Wales would be embarrassment according to Australian newspaper (I putting the link beneath).

What do colleague posters think about it? My mind is a bit unfair although Australia #2 87.99 and Wales #5 83.32 so because home games Australia by ranking should win by more than 1 try each game. But also compare both teams make the semi-final RWC so maybe can be a bit more closer even though "Aussies" one the last 4 matchings including important world cup playoff and not lost for five years.

"CONCERNS that the Wallabies may suffer an embarrassment similar to losing to Samoa last season and Scotland in 2009 have convinced Test selectors to force key players to back up three times in one week when the international series starts next month.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/call-of-duty-for-ambushed-wallabies-20120521-1z192.html#ixzz1vflO7DZv
"

Yeah, i remember that too.

But again we have had so many of these games over the past 2 years where once the momentum in the match turns, the decisions also go against you.

I guess sometimes these things are just part of rugby, but then you think in a game like the QF where your marginal forward passes are all called and you start wondering where the the justice in it all is.

I still beleive we would have given the all Blacks THE FINAL last year.

to be fair, it would be for SA or NZ, historically speaking. The welsh record against them is terrible. Its not all that much better against Oz.

However, if we're comparing current teams, then its not so much an embaressment, more a game they'd expect to win if playing to their best.

For Wales though:

Sa's been getting closer and closer, and I genuinely think we're starting to shed this mentality of fearing the big 3, this new generation of young players has a winning attitude, i genuinely think we would have ended up 4th in the 6nations this time last year, and Gatland deserves great credit for that, regionalism is starting to show its fruit.

NZ is our real mental monkey, We've played like we can win against both SA and Oz in recent times, just not necessarily against NZ.

lets not get into refereeing decisions at the world cup eh guys

Comfort wrote:lets not get into refereeing decisions at the world cup eh guys

sorry mate, just got a little philosophical there for a moment.

If englands try was given v south africa 2007- it would have been one fo the best comebacks and stories of sport. You wouldnt believe it in a hollywood film. Sorry comfort- but you saying 'dont' makes me think about decisions and events!

its alright Bil, I know it still hurts!

I re-watched the quarters and semis over the last week. Brings back painful memories, watching the Wales vs France game, I saw Clerc coming off that lineout and actually started shouting "NO SAM, DONT DO IT, NOOOOOOO" at the tv.

mystiroakey wrote: Sorry comfort- but you saying 'dont' makes me think about decisions and events!

it does to me too! read my next post!

Yeah there are a lot of these "moments" that has changed the course of matches and tournamnets.

I guess one should be thankful that your team has won a trophy like the RWC, some may never experience that in their lifetimes, let alone twice.

I guess for me the winning of the world cup now rather than later is that the more politics influence the general direction of our sport, the less chance we will have of winning the trophy again.

When i look at the decisions made by the few in power and how it influences the masses, it is truly like watching the motions of a runaway train and you just know it is going to derail at some point.

Every year you see the thing is still running there is hope even when you know the plnker drving the thing doesn't even own a bicycle.

Comfort wrote:its alright Bil, I know it still hurts!

I re-watched the quarters and semis over the last week. Brings back painful memories, watching the Wales vs France game, I saw Clerc coming off that lineout and actually started shouting "NO SAM, DONT DO IT, NOOOOOOO" at the tv.

Exactly my point, one moment, just one friggin moment of lunacy, loss of focus, brainfart, whatever you want to call it, and for the rest of your life you will wonder "what if".

Wales have come a long way since a Kiwi clown called them the village idiots of world rugby.

There is so much guff written in the media with any upcoming series or a test match nowadays that it's inevitable to pick up any sensationalist drivel and put it under the microscope just to make artificially some headlines. Best advice is to ignoren embarrassments like these journos and save the comments for good articles... so in other words, keep quiet full stop.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Wales have come a long way since a Kiwi clown called them the village idiots of world rugby.

There is so much guff written in the media with any upcoming series or a test match nowadays that it's inevitable to pick up any sensationalist drivel and put it under the microscope just to make artificially some headlines. Best advice is to ignoren embarrassments like these journos and save the comments for good articles... so in other words, keep quiet full stop.

+1

Im hardly qualified to comment on the situation in SA, so Ill just say that IMO while the quotas are being introduced with the best intentions, they may not be the best idea for anyone.....!

Just be glad you've got a fair while being part of that top of the tree circle at least eh!

I guess those moments are one of the reaons we will always keep watching sport. Next time that may not happen.....

Unless your welsh, when it probably will!

Comfort wrote:Im hardly qualified to comment on the situation in SA, so Ill just say that IMO while the quotas are being introduced with the best intentions, they may not be the best idea for anyone.....!

Just be glad you've got a fair while being part of that top of the tree circle at least eh!

I guess those moments are one of the reaons we will always keep watching sport. Next time that may not happen.....

Unless your welsh, when it probably will!

The top was only supposed to be two mate, us and those black clothed dudes from the land of the long white cloud. Oz has decided to crash the party already and soon argentina would want to do the same.

I just wish we could keep one thing pure in SA, and that would be rugby, no politics, no interference, just pure rugby. but hey, what do I know?

RubyGuby wrote:We beat Aus in 1987 albeit in N Z and again in 2008 in Cardiff. All this is media hype anyway - The coaches and players know there is very little between these sides and it should be a cracking series.

NZ/Australia. Is all the same thing surely. Like Germany and Poland.

germany and poland- you what dude??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RenRILqwhJs

Perhaps AWOP has been watching this recently. Seriously though, what are you on about there mate?

Australia have crashed the party since 1978. They were also rans until then. NZ helped them out of the doldrums. But SA vs NZ will always be the true top of the tree rivalry. I think 95 was the kick in the guts that got younger NZers thinking wow this is what my parents were on about.

Biltong your guys may well have given us a closer game than the Aussies did. We were well up for it though and I feel we may have won. I'm glad we beat Aussie instead though as it was the first time we did in a WC. But France were within a point of us in the final so not sure you can get closer than that! We didn't have all the luck though-Carter would have ensured a lot more comfort whilst watching the game! Stephen Donald...jeepers...

Probably the same as 07. I've no doubt we would have mangled England in the semi and given you guys a hell of a game, and I'd have been at the final and confident of a win but knowing that it'd have been a hell of a game. Having said that if Mortlock hadn't have stuffed that kick up England would have been out and none of this one world cup and three finals crowing would have happened!

disney, that's the thing, we both genuinely belive our teams will beat each other when we play.

Ain't that the way we want it?

We keep each other honest don't we?

We've got the better head to head stats and you have the better WC record. Think that's been the way throughout hasn't it-one having some record or stat that the other covets!

Wish the French played you lot like they play us sometimes though!

MUst say, I'll trade you anything you want for those head to head stats.

Exactley, I dont think it would be the same if we thought the Boks or the ABs would be beaten.

disneychilly wrote:Wish the French played you lot like they play us sometimes though!

they do disney, go check our results against them, not very good.

Ha was referring to two particular tournaments mate. Think you're unbeaten vs them at WCs.

Deal Biltong. Just give us your World Cups in 1995 and 2007 and go back in time and give Suzie a taste of her own medicine and make sure Wayne Barnes never got into refereeing (no need to wipe out his entire existence). Then you can have our stats. We'll catch up by the turn of the decade.

I think we have only played them once though, havne't we?

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Deal Biltong. Just give us your World Cups in 1995 and 2007 and go back in time and give Suzie a taste of her own medicine and make sure Wayne Barnes never got into refereeing (no need to wipe out his entire existence). Then you can have our stats. We'll catch up by the turn of the decade.

Are you trying to deal with me AGAIN Kia, did your wannabe lawyers not explain to you yesterday who you are dealing with?

I'll tell you what to sweeten the deal.

I'll give you one world cup, I'll take the head to head in return.

BUT, then NZ must accommodate the same "unspoken" quota system as we do.

So you can come over and pcik yourself some coaches, players and administrators.

Then we'll race to who ever gets 100 wins over the other one first.

Oh, and just to sweeten the pot a little more, you get to have PDV for 4 years.

biltongbek wrote:MUst say, I'll trade you anything you want for those head to head stats.

Those were the terms of agreement I'm afraid mate. I put my terms and our lawyers won't budge on that.

We already have a quota system Biltong. It is difficult to make our quota white players out but they're the ones at the back of the haka trying to look inconspicuous. (that's not a raspberry but it is what a white boy looks like when he pokes out his tongue in the haka!)

Damn I thought Johnnie Cochran was dead.

Didn't we have some sort of quota i.e. none when we used to tour SA?

By the way, I am done trading with you.

you have too many excuses and refuse to read the fine print.

I guess we'll just have the Boks sort this out on the field.

disneychilly wrote:Damn I thought Johnnie Cochran was dead.

Didn't we have some sort of quota i.e. none when we used to tour SA?

we also had a quota then.

Looks like mate. With their inferior head to head stats...

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Looks like mate. With their inferior head to head stats...

(that was a raspberry)

biltongbek wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Deal Biltong. Just give us your World Cups in 1995 and 2007 and go back in time and give Suzie a taste of her own medicine and make sure Wayne Barnes never got into refereeing (no need to wipe out his entire existence). Then you can have our stats. We'll catch up by the turn of the decade.

Are you trying to deal with me AGAIN Kia, did your wannabe lawyers not explain to you yesterday who you are dealing with?

I'll tell you what to sweeten the deal.

I'll give you one world cup, I'll take the head to head in return.

BUT, then NZ must accommodate the same "unspoken" quota system as we do.

So you can come over and pcik yourself some coaches, players and administrators.

Then we'll race to who ever gets 100 wins over the other one first.

Oh, and just to sweeten the pot a little more, you get to have PDV for 4 years.

To be fair, I just read the History of the Springboks vs All Blacks and PDivvy's stint looks the best since the 95 WC. I know he has had better players etc, but I hope that we keep on producing the players now again. I wonder why we struggled so much just after re-admittance, why did the boks struggle so much? I thought Naas was the best we ever had and he couldn't really stand up to them, although it was the end of his career. Hopefully we can try rectify the record now on without too much outside influence.

We don't ask for too much. Just Bob Dean's 1905 try to be allowed, the Scotland game in 1924 to go ahead, no apartheid, Ireland not to have foot and mouth disease in the 60s, Bezuidenhout not to give that penalty, Susie to be a charted accountant instead, Kaplan to now play 10 mins of injury time, Barnes to not be in Cardiff...

And the 1937 Springboks to miss their boat

That's me doing a haka for my team. You tried to make your face go red by screaming to look meaner but all you looked like was someone with severe constipation.

I wouldn't call 2 World Cups and a string of 3N a struggle FerN. Granted the Boks have been capable of better results, and in recent times have started to get a few annoying dingo bites that have turned ugly, but it's still a very intimidating record not to mention team. But I agree wholeheartedly that there have been too many obstacles to getting more complete performances for various reasons and I hope that those obstacles are removed from now on.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote: That's me doing a haka for my team. You tried to make your face go red by screaming to look meaner but all you looked like was someone with severe constipation.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote: That's me doing a haka for my team. You tried to make your face go red by screaming to look meaner but all you looked like was someone with severe constipation.

I wouldn't call 2 World Cups and a string of 3N a struggle FerN. Granted the Boks have been capable of better results, and in recent times have started to get a few annoying dingo bites that have turned ugly, but it's still a very intimidating record not to mention team. But I agree wholeheartedly that there have been too many obstacles to getting more complete performances for various reasons and I hope that those obstacles are removed from now on.

I didn't mean in a whole, I meant against you guys.

Hear hear. We want you lot to have a great team with no politics playing great rugby. Always have done.

I think a lot of great South Africans were at their peak in the mid 80s and by the time readmission came about they were past their peak, and maybe that transition coupled with the readmission made results hard to come by. Save the fairytale in 95 which had a rude awakening the year after South Africa only started to kick butt in 98, but still you feel politics was always going to stifle their consistency. You felt sorry for those proud Boks having to watch the 2003 lot bumble their way to a few hidings.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Wales have come a long way since a Kiwi clown called them the village idiots of world rugby.

Yeah theyve gone all the way back round the World claiming on their day they can beat anyone and using losing to them as evidence of that

Fern, 2009 is too recent in the mind to offer you further words of encouragement. Or indeed the loss last year that robbed us of the last ever 3N.

My last on this, because this is actually a Wales vs Australia thread, we tell ourselves that politics played such a big role in our recent losses, but I can't remember a game against you where we would have beaten you guys if we had one other player of our choice on the field. The PDivvy thing in my memory is the biggest interference that was done.

And kia, we not going to lose against you Kiwi's again - I was talking about the start, now we are in full swing again

Yes, i think when you consider the springbok team that was selected in 1992, it was all the veterans of the currie Cup, Naas botha, Danie gerber, Uli Schmidt, Lood Muller, Adolf Malan, Wahl bartmann.

They were some great players in their day, but sadly at the end of their careers.

I also often felt we were on the back foot in most matches up to 1994, where we were heavily penalised and never seemed to get the interpretations right.

Whether it was our "welcome back" to the internatinal fold, or my imagination, I screamed at the TV a lot in those days (come to think of it I still do)

FerN wrote:My last on this, because this is actually a Wales vs Australia thread, we tell ourselves that politics played such a big role in our recent losses, but I can't remember a game against you where we would have beaten you guys if we had one other player of our choice on the field. The PDivvy thing in my memory is the biggest interference that was done.

And kia, we not ever going to lose against you Kiwi's again - I was talking about the start, now we are in full swing again

Fern, the problem is it is deeper rooted than that, it starts at cruyven week where players of colour has to be selected, as an example, a mate of mine's son wasn't selected for Cruyven week U13's because they needed another player of colour, and because he was the prop he was sacraficed as their reasoning was there is limited damage to lose a player who has general all round capability.

It then goes further, it goes to the senior school teams, then to the Vodacom, the province, the super rugby franchises. It isn't a case of these guys can't play international level, but they aren't our best.

And to beat the best, your can't play your second, third or fourth best player, you need your best.

And then there are players like Spies or JDV. A quota of players who think in form means to explain to or advise their team mates why they´re in the team.

I remember seeing those names and wondering if they had rugby in Germany and the Netherlands too haha.

Yeah I recall you guys getting pinged a bit.

I rant and rave at the TV too mate-2009 had a fair bit of volume. My German missus loves to take the michael out of what I say when I'm watching the games. It's actually quite amusing when she does it, though I draw the line at her calling out "Spin it! Release it! Collapsed maul! Ah FFS" in Tesco...

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:And then there are players like Spies or JDV. A quota of players who think in form means to explain to or advise their team mates why they´re in the team.

Yeah, that is unfortunately the fault of our poor administration, and coaches who don't give opportunity to players more deserved as they dont have enough faith in their coaching abilities.

In fact Kia, that just adds to my argument, if you don't play your best, how do you expect to beat the best.

disneychilly wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RenRILqwhJs

Perhaps AWOP has been watching this recently. Seriously though, what are you on about there mate?

Australia have crashed the party since 1978. They were also rans until then. NZ helped them out of the doldrums. But SA vs NZ will always be the true top of the tree rivalry. I think 95 was the kick in the guts that got younger NZers thinking wow this is what my parents were on about.

Was it suppose to be "kick in the guts" was problem? I thought was bad food posion the gut?

Or faith in the players's abilities to play a more varied game.

Still capable though of producing prodigious talent. Botha and Matfield used to make me pack it in our days of disfunctional lineouts which is all too recent for me. Smith, Burger, Broussow, Du Preez, Fourie, Habana, Petersen ad nauseum. All players the ABs would've welcomed with open arms given the chance, despite your reputation to pull out on transfer deals...

The Baa baas will be embarrassed if they lose to Wales 3rds.

The Barbarians are in danger of becoming an embarrassment. Their legacy has pretty much vanished from the game. They are all too often the equivalents of SBW's boxing opponents.