Losing to Wales describe as "Embarrassment".

First topic message reminder :

For world's second best team Wallabies, they describing potential lost to Wales would be embarrassment according to Australian newspaper (I putting the link beneath).

What do colleague posters think about it? My mind is a bit unfair although Australia #2 87.99 and Wales #5 83.32 so because home games Australia by ranking should win by more than 1 try each game. But also compare both teams make the semi-final RWC so maybe can be a bit more closer even though "Aussies" one the last 4 matchings including important world cup playoff and not lost for five years.

"CONCERNS that the Wallabies may suffer an embarrassment similar to losing to Samoa last season and Scotland in 2009 have convinced Test selectors to force key players to back up three times in one week when the international series starts next month.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/call-of-duty-for-ambushed-wallabies-20120521-1z192.html#ixzz1vflO7DZv
"

What's the point in having minimum standards (however poorly refereed) then accepting promotion of a club that doesn't meet them. That would be hypocritical....and dumb.

Todays Headline : "Hijacking threads with ridiculous ill informed conspiracy theories which reveal just waht a massive chiop on their shoulder the poster in question has described as an embarrassment"

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote: Todays Headline : "Hijacking threads with ridiculous ill informed conspiracy theories which reveal just waht a massive chiop on their shoulder the poster in question has described as an embarrassment"

Peter how is it a massive chip on my shoulder. I refer you to the many posts earlier in the thread where I have defended the English teams performance on the pitch against our SH cousins.

Rather than ramping up the Natiionality issue look at it from a purely legal and moral issue. Legally ridiculous and morally repugnant.

tycoes you were on a wind up dude- you know it. The fact is though the pirates would also be in the same position. Personally i am abit open minded on this subject- it could be a way of not allowing this dual team in, it may not be though. I dont know and i doubt we ever will. but its clear to me that LW should try and get into the welsh system if it wants to be a welsh team and it shouldnt recieve any funding from the RFU if it isnt doing its upmost to produce english talent

mystiroakey wrote:tycoes you were on a wind up dude- you know it. The fact is though the pirates would also be in the same position. Personally i am abit open minded on this subject- it could be a way of not allowing this dual team in, it may not be though. I dont know and i doubt we ever will. but its clear to me that LW should try and get into the welsh system if it wants to be a welsh team and it shouldnt recieve any funding from the RFU if it isnt doing its upmost to produce english talent

Actually apart from a couple of minor jibes I havent been wumming at all in this thread, you should know me better.

Pirates would have been in the same position except, they dont have access to a ground which is the better of many AP stadia

It boils down to one simple question, Should the RFU's rules be applied equally to all the clubs or not?

If they are to be applied equally then either some of the current premier sides have to change stadium or be relegated automatically, Or LW are allowed to go up

And lets be clear on this stadium issue, This isnt that the Kassam does not have the facilities to have a top level rugby match. It does in fact it has better facilities than many AP clubs can dream of. This is about a club not having primacy of tenure. Rotherham and Pirates did not have access to a stadium that LW do. The primacy of tenure is a smokescreen to protect the vested interests of premier rugby. It is bad for the English game. So its one or the other relegate Sarries, Irish, Sale, Wasps and Newcastle of course for coming bottom or allow LW to go up.

The RFU has mismanaged this at every level. They have created a perfect storm for themselves yet again. This time with serious legal issues the money that it is going to cost the RFU to settle this is going to be taken out of the game. Bad for English Rugby, bad for the games integrity and yet another piece of spectacular mismanagement by a governing body. Coming on top of the disasters last year and the abject display of the RFU rather than defending the indefensible maybe some England fans should be thinking about the impact this has on their own local club.

This decision has been slammed by players, coaches and management from other clubs in the system in England at every level. Even Carling has spoken out although his opinion of the leadership at the RFU is well known The only people silent about this are the clique of top clubs who want a closed shop and the RFU who have tried to facillitate this through the back door.

Tycroes, just admit it, you wouldn't be bothered if one of the clubs involved didn't have the word 'Welsh' in it. You're just using the whole situation as a stick to beat the English with (again).

It's amazing how many sanctimonious individuals come out at times like these.

sugarNspikes wrote:Tycroes, just admit it, you wouldn't be bothered if one of the clubs involved didn't have the word 'Welsh' in it. You're just using the whole situation as a stick to beat the English with (again).

It's amazing how many sanctimonious individuals come out at times like these.

Read my posts. Unlike some who come on here with a chip and troll every thread because it makes them feel good about themselves I come here to discuss rugby. Would I be as bothered if it wasnt a club I have spent a lot of time at and which has the welsh link? Of course not. Would I think that the situation is a farce created by mismanagment and discrimination? yes I would. At the end of the day if its bad for the game in England it will have implications for the game in the other rugby playing nations. We are a family after all even if some of us are a little disfunctional about our cousins.

This is somthing that affects every club in England. It is a decision which could have wide reaching implications for the game as a whole. I personally have no problem with the AP being a closed shop with no relegation thats what the Rabo is. However you cannot apply rules to different clubs as it suits the RFU you must apply them equally otherwise the game becomes a farce.

Sorry, I don't believe your motives.

sugarNspikes wrote:Sorry, I don't believe your motives.

Then ask around Ive been on the site long enough for people to know my posting or look at my posting history, read my comments earlier in the thread about England. After that if you still think I come here to bash England then you are deluded.

Tycroes - I dont think they respect you

TycroesOsprey wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:Sorry, I don't believe your motives.

Then ask around Ive been on the site long enough for people to know my posting or look at my posting history, read my comments earlier in the thread about England. After that if you still think I come here to bash England then you are deluded.

Do you really want all your comments like the one below to see the light of day again?

"Usual Anglocentric rubbish from dayglow defended by the usual ignorance from the Sais posters. I wouldnt get too stressed by it Taff."

sugarNspikes wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:Sorry, I don't believe your motives.

Then ask around Ive been on the site long enough for people to know my posting or look at my posting history, read my comments earlier in the thread about England. After that if you still think I come here to bash England then you are deluded.

Do you really want all your comments like the one below to see the light of day again?

"Usual Anglocentric rubbish from dayglow defended by the usual ignorance from the Sais posters. I wouldnt get too stressed by it Taff."

I dont deny I have been critical of the English team, English players and performance and of course bantered with their fans on here espescially when there is a wales england match. I even started the annual bickering thread for the six nations thats what the site is about. But if you think I come on here simply to bash the English then you are deluded. Not only that Im also happy to admit to my wums and banter always have been, but when Im stating an honest opinion and stating clearly Im not wumming in it then maybe you should ask if Im being serious. Im pretty sure other posters will actually back that up.

I think it's called The Boy Who Cried Wolf Syndrome, isn't it?

or something like "methinks the lady doth protest too much"

So new to the site and yet so cynical. I think if you stay here long enough you will learn who the welsh wums are and which posters are merely passionate about the game and their team. When youve worked it out I will be happy to discuss rugby with you.

sounds like a witch hunt to me. The forum is all about banter, having good quality rugby debates and not getting worked up by WUMS. Try and have a laugh boys, Tycroes hasn't done anything wrong, my God it would be pretty rubbish if we all came on and constantly praised opposition sides.

Id also like to point out that Ive never had a naughty boy message, never been gagged or been banned. If I had stepped over the line Im pretty sure I would have been.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Id also like to point out that Ive never had a naughty boy message, never been gagged or been banned. If I had stepped over the line Im pretty sure I would have been.

Nobody gets banned for being anti-English.

sugarNspikes wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:Id also like to point out that Ive never had a naughty boy message, never been gagged or been banned. If I had stepped over the line Im pretty sure I would have been.

Nobody gets banned for being anti-English.

You should really know the history of the site before making clearly incorrect comments like that, if you did you would realise how ridiculous that statement is. One thing I can say about all the mods is that they police the site relatively impartially.

sugarNspikes wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:Id also like to point out that Ive never had a naughty boy message, never been gagged or been banned. If I had stepped over the line Im pretty sure I would have been.

Nobody gets banned for being anti-English.

Actually several posters have been.


While the London Welsh comments would have been better posted on the LW thread, Tycro is making some good points about consistency - his occasional assertion that the decision has been made "because they're Welsh" is admittedly unsupported by any evidence, and a little over-paranoid IMO. (Tycro, most of the time the English are too busy with other things to go out of their way to tread on the Welsh )

Personally I think it would have been unfair to punish teams already in the Premiership for not meeting conditions imposed AFTER they had joined it - that is a basic principle of contract law. That said, in fairness once the new conditions came in existing teams should have been given a time limit within which they needed to comply. Given how long the resource consent process takes in Blighty, you'd probably have needed to set a generous time limit - say 10 years.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:Id also like to point out that Ive never had a naughty boy message, never been gagged or been banned. If I had stepped over the line Im pretty sure I would have been.

Nobody gets banned for being anti-English.

You should really know the history of the site before making clearly incorrect comments like that, if you did you would realise how ridiculous that statement is. One thing I can say about all the mods is that they police the site relatively impartially.

We try.

All I can say for sure is that there are posters from several countries who think I pick on them, and let other nationalities away with it.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:Id also like to point out that Ive never had a naughty boy message, never been gagged or been banned. If I had stepped over the line Im pretty sure I would have been.

Nobody gets banned for being anti-English.

You should really know the history of the site before making clearly incorrect comments like that, if you did you would realise how ridiculous that statement is. One thing I can say about all the mods is that they police the site relatively impartially.

We try.

All I can say for sure is that there are posters from several countries who think I pick on them, and let other nationalities away with it.

fair play kiwi, some people are always paranoid. Ill try and keep my comments in the LW thread as well.

As we are off the topic at hand and even mods are on this 'other' subject i dont have a problem with posting that i am very surprised tycoes hasnt had any naughty boy messages. Not saying he does enough to get em though- i enjoy the banter. But i got PM'ed by you Kiwi for absoloutly nothing the other day , so i am very confussed.. Come on dude- admit you make the occasional mistake will ya!! And this is not me being paranoid

mystiroakey wrote:As we are off the topic at hand and even mods are on this 'other' subject i dont have a problem with posting that i am very surprised tycoes hasnt had any naughty boy messages. Not saying he does enough to get em though- i enjoy the banter. But i got PM'ed by you Kiwi for absoloutly nothing the other day , so i am very confussed.. Come on dude- admit you make the occasional mistake will ya!! And this is not me being paranoid

please god use the r in my name, coes means somthing completly different to croes. Anyway Im hurt you think I should have had naughty boy messages.

You must fly under the radar pal! Trust me i know what it can be like.

TycroesOsprey wrote:
I dont deny I have been critical of the English team, English players and performance and of course bantered with their fans on here espescially when there is a wales england match. I even started the annual bickering thread for the six nations thats what the site is about. But if you think I come on here simply to bash the English then you are deluded. Not only that Im also happy to admit to my wums and banter always have been, but when Im stating an honest opinion and stating clearly Im not wumming in it then maybe you should ask if Im being serious. Im pretty sure other posters will actually back that up.

Ahhh Tycroes, you love a good WUM really

Can we have the bickering thread back mods..

pretty please. That was a good contributiuon from TycRoes

TycroesOsprey wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote: Todays Headline : "Hijacking threads with ridiculous ill informed conspiracy theories which reveal just waht a massive chiop on their shoulder the poster in question has described as an embarrassment"

Peter how is it a massive chip on my shoulder. I refer you to the many posts earlier in the thread where I have defended the English teams performance on the pitch against our SH cousins.

Rather than ramping up the Natiionality issue look at it from a purely legal and moral issue. Legally ridiculous and morally repugnant.

So you agree its unfair that Leicester Tigers got to be in the Premiership without having to win a play off?

The level of ridiculous offence you are taking at this issue is far out of proportion to any rational assessment of the facts, it seems to be a real case of if you want to be offended you will be.
Its been perfectly normal in the soccer world to impose such restrictions on promoted clubs for years, and its been the case in the premiership for a long time too. Only now do you get on your high horse about it and start making irrational statements based partly on ignorance and partly on a wilful filtering of reality.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote: Todays Headline : "Hijacking threads with ridiculous ill informed conspiracy theories which reveal just waht a massive chiop on their shoulder the poster in question has described as an embarrassment"

Peter how is it a massive chip on my shoulder. I refer you to the many posts earlier in the thread where I have defended the English teams performance on the pitch against our SH cousins.

Rather than ramping up the Natiionality issue look at it from a purely legal and moral issue. Legally ridiculous and morally repugnant.

So you agree its unfair that Leicester Tigers got to be in the Premiership without having to win a play off?

The level of ridiculous offence you are taking at this issue is far out of proportion to any rational assessment of the facts, it seems to be a real case of if you want to be offended you will be.
Its been perfectly normal in the soccer world to impose such restrictions on promoted clubs for years, and its been the case in the premiership for a long time too. Only now do you get on your high horse about it and start making irrational statements based partly on ignorance and partly on a wilful filtering of reality.

Yes the premiership has always had these rules and they are applied equally, They also have the leeway to allow a promoted team to build a temporary stand and install portaloos so as to meet those requirements as they did for Blackpool, rather than devaluing the competition in English football by refusing them promotion. Had the RFU acted with the level of proffesionalism that the FA did in that case then this situation would not have happened.

Is it irrational to expect the rules of a governing body to be applied equally and fairly to the clubs in its organisation? If it is then Im barking, Im madder than Mr Mads dad, Madder than Mad McMad. Legally ridiculous morally repugnant and I stand by it, so will the courts.

the rfu cant act like the fa- because its like comparing a corner shop with tescos

TycroesOsprey wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote: Todays Headline : "Hijacking threads with ridiculous ill informed conspiracy theories which reveal just waht a massive chiop on their shoulder the poster in question has described as an embarrassment"

Peter how is it a massive chip on my shoulder. I refer you to the many posts earlier in the thread where I have defended the English teams performance on the pitch against our SH cousins.

Rather than ramping up the Natiionality issue look at it from a purely legal and moral issue. Legally ridiculous and morally repugnant.

So you agree its unfair that Leicester Tigers got to be in the Premiership without having to win a play off?

The level of ridiculous offence you are taking at this issue is far out of proportion to any rational assessment of the facts, it seems to be a real case of if you want to be offended you will be.
Its been perfectly normal in the soccer world to impose such restrictions on promoted clubs for years, and its been the case in the premiership for a long time too. Only now do you get on your high horse about it and start making irrational statements based partly on ignorance and partly on a wilful filtering of reality.

Yes the premiership has always had these rules and they are applied equally, They also have the leeway to allow a promoted team to build a temporary stand and install portaloos so as to meet those requirements as they did for Blackpool, rather than devaluing the competition in English football by refusing them promotion. Had the RFU acted with the level of proffesionalism that the FA did in that case then this situation would not have happened.

Is it irrational to expect the rules of a governing body to be applied equally and fairly to the clubs in its organisation? If it is then Im barking, Im madder than Mr Mads dad, Madder than Mad McMad. Legally ridiculous morally repugnant and I stand by it, so will the courts.

Fairness does appear to be a quaint olde fashioned concept that has no place in the modern game.
Re over-zealous Mods,beware someone by the name of Ozzy with a series of numbers who perceived my weak attempt at humour as a deliberate attemt to annoy people.He clearly performed the Wigan Mind-Meld rather than the Vulcan!He is a policeman and I would hope that he is Traffic rather than Murder Squad!!!!!!!!!

The criteria are there to gain promotion to the premiership, not to be there in the first place. Otherwise to be fair youd have to insist that all clubs earn their place by entering the championship playoffs, winning that is one of the conditions of promotion....(something LW are yet to do btw)
The conditions for promotion, despite your assertion, have been consistent and have been applied equally to all clubs seeking promotion.
Perhaps if LW had a plan to bring their chosen ground up to the required standards, as Blackpool did, then they wouldnt have failed to meet them.

Can you explain how it would be fair to the club that gets relegated if the RFU were to bend the rules/ Or how its fair to the clubs who invested in meeting those standards only for the RFU to shift the goal posts for a club that didnt?

Would that not be equally "morally repugnant"

And mods can you earn your crust and split the last 50 pages of this tripe off to the dustbin or appropriate thread please?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:The criteria are there to gain promotion to the premiership, not to be there in the first place. Otherwise to be fair youd have to insist that all clubs earn their place by entering the championship playoffs, winning that is one of the conditions of promotion....(something LW are yet to do btw)
The conditions for promotion, despite your assertion, have been consistent and have been applied equally to all clubs seeking promotion.
Perhaps if LW had a plan to bring their chosen ground up to the required standards, as Blackpool did, then they wouldnt have failed to meet them.

Can you explain how it would be fair to the club that gets relegated if the RFU were to bend the rules/ Or how its fair to the clubs who invested in meeting those standards only for the RFU to shift the goal posts for a club that didnt?

Would that not be equally "morally repugnant"

It is not about the facilities or is that fact incomprehensible? The facilities are better than clubs in the AP. It is about primacy of tenure. The standards are there to provide for a good service to the fans, the Kassam Stadium is state of the art for rugby. Even the RFU arent trying to peddle that lie.

Look, clubs, players, fans, ex England captains, the press, are all united in stating this is a travesty. The only people silent are those who support the vested interests. Even the Harrow MP has tabled a commons motion to get the RFU to reconsider. So peter either you support fairness in the English system and want the rules to be applied fairly to all the clubs. Or you would rather see the vested interest of a top few protected at the expense of yet more of the games integrity and some serious mullah in compensation? Look at some of the polls online read around a bit before shooting your mouth off about somthing that quite simply seems beyond your grasp to understand.

LW still have to beat cornish again though dont they- are cornish pipping up about this to?

mystiroakey wrote:LW still have to beat cornish again though dont they- are cornish pipping up about this to?

No. They didn't apply for a premiership license because they know they won't meet the criteria. Instead they're focusing on building themselves up, working on the council to build the ground they need.

London Welsh didn't just fail on the ground agreement. They failed on several things but all the media reports don't go into details on the others. There's nothing wrong with criteria. The criteria is important (even the Welsh premiership had them). The one issue is that the clubs currently in the premiership haven't been given a timescale to meet them in. That's all.

I still haven't seen anything that officially lays out the criteria or which current team doesn't meet them. I've seen several lists from different sources but the clubs are often different and it's still not defined what the issues are.

Also the statement from London Welsh states they believe they met the minimum criteria, therefore this isn't about the fairness of the criteria. It's about how to meet them. If the argument is we meet them as well as current clubs, I'm sorry that's tough, as pointed out by Kiwi earlier. That is typical in most things.

ta

http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/story/164580.html

MP's can be quite amusing sometimes.

that MP seems abit welsh to me dude

from rotherham?

the guys name is gareth thomas- do want any more clues dude?

it was the rotheram mps response i was reffering to. other guy may be welsh so what hes a west london mp? its not about nationality is it?

oh right isnt it lol, at least we got that cleared up dude

mystiroakey wrote:oh right isnt it lol, at least we got that cleared up dude

well its no suprise that the Londn Taffia are getting involved is it? These are the people who support the club go to functions there and turn up to watch the match on a saturday. Three silks have offered there services free of charge too as LW supporters but yes they are welsh as well? It would be suprising if the supporters of London Welsh werent welsh surely? It doesnt mean that this is about wales and england its about the RFU and LW. Anyway the comment that the RFU are the worst run of our major sporting bodies made me smile and it was an englishman who said that.

you what??

back on to nationality i see. if the rfu is badly run why does it make the most money out of any union- it props the world game up pal and next why does this welsh club wanna be part of it?

either way the RFU does need to sort it self out, but it just needs to hold strong and start understanding that it cant allow LW to be part of two countries systems- it needs to create that rule - not worry about all this ground business..

no thats not what I said mis. i said it was pretty obvious that the supporters of london welsh were going to be welshmen living in London. The exiles who have stood up and offered services as lawyers, MPs etc are doing that because they are supporters of a club though not becase they are welsh.

As for the two countries dual registration. that was somthing the rfu insisted upon as LW play in the English leagues and have done since their formation. LW at its inception would rather have been welsh. However I fail to see why that is a problem:? is it a problem for you that the swans are in the premiership?

The management of the RFU has been making mistakes because of their warped sense of importance ever since they refused to join the IRB in the 1880s. This is just the latests. Actually maybe the Rotherham MP was right

TycroesOsprey wrote: the comment that the RFU are the worst run of our major sporting bodies made me smile and it was an englishman who said that.

Its comments like this that make it quite clear what your agenda really is and why you are so virulent and unwilling to address the realities of the situation and assess things with any sense of proportionality, balance or willingness to learn. Its just another good opportunity for you to bash the English. The goal posts of your arguments keep shifting everytime someone points out you've spouted a load of nonsense. Stop shifting the goal posts, attempt to understand the realities of the situation, show some balance. yes its a mess, but the reasons why theres set criteria for going up (even if you disagree with the specifics of them) are sound and there for the good of the game. Promotion is not a divine right, and setting standards on it not only protects the existing premiership clubs but also those seeking to gain promotion in a sustainable way and the traditional fans of clubs like London Welsh.
The rules are set out out well in advance, and the criteria defined. they apply to all clubs and were audited independently when the clubs feel they are ready and have a plan in place. LW obviously felt they had met the criteria, but the auditors report said they hadnt. What were the RFU to do in that situation? Turn round and say the report says this but we dont want to upset Tycroes so you can go up anyway? Talk about the rFU being a shambles, what about whoever at LW thought they had met the criteria, or if they had whoever wrote the report that said they hadnt...because one of those people is incompetent.
So now instead of dealing with it through the proper channels LW have created a media sh1t storm and used internerds like yourself to muddy the waters and create a moral panic worthy of the Sun talking about peadeotricians.
There used to be a playoff against the bottom club to get up, people used to whinge about how unfair that was. Simple fact is what ever criteria they put in place there will be someone moaning about it. And whatever the RFU does there will be a Welshman there to rant about it. Sure you are by no means the only person, but you do have a particularly odious and paranoid attitude about.
At least PRL and the RFU still support and enable relegation at all. Theres only one other major professional league in the world that does that.

But then as was pointed out several pages ago yorue a well known England hater with a massive chip on your shoulder so Im sure youll continued with your nationalistic bile and rantings.


On the side though I do find it quite amusing that they got the guy from British tennis in to sort out the RFU.

no i like swansea and cardiff in our leagues- have british leagues in all sports- no dramas with that at all

But if the problem is stemming from LW being a feeder club for a big welsh club, then it shouldnt be in the english system.

Point is i waqant to get to the root of the issue- You are the only one saying the problem with LW is that it is welsh- i am trying to work out how that is a problem- and the only problem i can see is that the english system has a responsibility to produce english talent, and if a club in the prem is only producing welsh talent but when the players get good they go to a big welsh club- then its not really working.

In fooball i am happy to say that the prem should produce british talent(over just english), but that is due to wales and scotland not being competitive leagues compared to the EPL

Peter I have gone out of my way to point out its not a welsh - English thing. The fsct you keep banging that drum maked me wonder if your a bit simple? is the rhetoric too complex for you to understand? do I need to use words of fewer syllables for you? IT IS NOT ABOUT WALES AND ENGLAND.

If your happy to see inequality and the protection of vested interests at the expense of fair play then thats up to you., To call me an internerd for expressing an opinion contrary to yours is an example of your broken morality in this issue.

I am supported in my view bu clubs fans, players national captains, MP's and the vast majority of fair minded people. YOu are in favour of a closed shop where only a fews interests are served at the expense of the greater good of the clubs as a whole. The RFU have had their bluff called on the rank hypocrisy of their organisation. They have still not provided the details of the decision to LW to facilitate the appeal thats how organised they are.

PSW and Tycroes, carefull boys, your argument is becoming personal.