Springboks should field relatively young team vs the English.

First topic message reminder :

It has been confirmed by Heyneke Meyer that Victor Matfield will not return to Springbok rugby, but might be involved as a line out advisor. After Fourie du Preez and Jaque Fourie who both play rugby in Japan have confirmed they will not be available, and considering Juan Smit, Schalk Burger are both injured, and John Smit retired alongside Gurthro Steenkamp, Bakkies Botha and Danie Rossouw, that means nine regulars are not available for the English test series.

Out.

John Smit - retired
Bakkies Botha - France
Vicki Matfield - Retired
Fourie du Preez - Retired
Jaque Fourie - Japan, might as well be retired from international rugby.
Juan Smit - long term injury
Schalk Buger - long term injury (might be available for Four nations)
Gurthro Steenkamp - retired
Danie Rossouw - Retired


Now we just need to get rid of Morne.

Agreed, if you are going to slap someone weighing in at 120 kg then at least the victim's snot should orbit his face a few times

That or a Steve Thompson kiss.

my son had his first retaliation on the rugby field this weekend, now though I told him it was wrong, I was very proud to see him not take a step back.

This guy grabbed him in the face and tried to smother him, so next move when he tackled him, h gave the bloke a few jabs in the short rib

I just saw this little arm pump in and out, so after the game I asked him what happened so he explained why he gt angry.

For me that was an important step for him as he is quite a gentleminded Kid, and I was quite worried he would let kids bully him on the rugby field, but hey ho, he is a tough little one

biltongbek wrote:my son had his first retaliation on the rugby field this weekend, now though I told him it was wrong, I was very proud to see him not take a step back.

This guy grabbed him in the face and tried to smother him, so next move when he tackled him, h gave the bloke a few jabs in the short rib

I just saw this little arm pump in and out, so after the game I asked him what happened so he explained why he gt angry.

For me that was an important step for him as he is quite a gentleminded Kid, and I was quite worried he would let kids bully him on the rugby field, but hey ho, he is a tough little one

Ahhhh the sign of a rugby parent ....being pleased his son is showing some old fashioned aggresion on the field

I think both teams will be putting out relatively young starting XVs.

I think England's will look something like this for the first test:

Corbisiero
Hartley
Cole
Botha
Parling
Haskell (if unavalible for first test then it could be anyone)
Robshaw
Morgan

Youngs
Flood
Strettle (hopefully Wade, we'll see how he goes against the Barbarians)
Barritt
Tuilagi
Ashton
Foden

biltongbek wrote:my son had his first retaliation on the rugby field this weekend, now though I told him it was wrong, I was very proud to see him not take a step back.

This guy grabbed him in the face and tried to smother him, so next move when he tackled him, h gave the bloke a few jabs in the short rib

I just saw this little arm pump in and out, so after the game I asked him what happened so he explained why he gt angry.

For me that was an important step for him as he is quite a gentleminded Kid, and I was quite worried he would let kids bully him on the rugby field, but hey ho, he is a tough little one

I didn't think you meant to take players THAT young biltongbek.

When can we expect to see your son for the springboks then?

Why not pick a couple of English fellas just to balance things?This may be a Test series with the most Saffers on the pitch at the same time!!!!!!!!

Ozzy3213 wrote:Taffineastbourne

If you have nothing constructive to add to the thread then please do not bother posting at all. Your comments are unhelpful to the debate and clearly designed to annoy.

Ozzy,sorry about your lack of a sense of humour.I will say a prayer for you.Take a chill pill.Sorry if I touched a nerve,precious.

Question?Biltong and co.how much leeway will Meyer be given?If he does the unthikable and loses say a couple of Tests versus England.As you say it is a young side and as many as 9 veterans are not available.BUT those missing are getting old [mostly and playing[or have been] overseas and out of the current loop.You have a real chance to build a strong side pre 3Ns and have 3 class goal kickers in the starting 15[likely].The way things are being reffed this year that is going to be a crucial advantage.The All Blacks have also a lot of names missing Kaino,Mealamu,Boric,Muliana ,Thorn,Woodcock [probably] Slade,Cory Jane,Cowan,Kahui,Weepu[unless he loses weight].Only two recognized Goal kickers in the squad,which could be crucial.Dan Carter kicked well last week end and started at 10.McCaw looked better than for at least a season and that was at8!!.June is really looking good 3 hard fought series maybe a few new faces,plus the Junior RWC.

emack2 wrote:Question?Biltong and co.how much leeway will Meyer be given?If he does the unthikable and loses say a couple of Tests versus England.As you say it is a young side and as many as 9 veterans are not available.BUT those missing are getting old [mostly and playing[or have been] overseas and out of the current loop.You have a real chance to build a strong side pre 3Ns and have 3 class goal kickers in the starting 15[likely].The way things are being reffed this year that is going to be a crucial advantage.The All Blacks have also a lot of names missing Kaino,Mealamu,Boric,Muliana ,Thorn,Woodcock [probably] Slade,Cory Jane,Cowan,Kahui,Weepu[unless he loses weight].Only two recognized Goal kickers in the squad,which could be crucial.Dan Carter kicked well last week end and started at 10.McCaw looked better than for at least a season and that was at8!!.June is really looking good 3 hard fought series maybe a few new faces,plus the Junior RWC.

Any defeat to the English no matter how many seniors retired , will not be tolerated by the saffa crowd .

Thanks Bulls bok that`s what I thought would be the response

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

biltongbek wrote:my son had his first retaliation on the rugby field this weekend, now though I told him it was wrong, I was very proud to see him not take a step back.

This guy grabbed him in the face and tried to smother him, so next move when he tackled him, h gave the bloke a few jabs in the short rib

I just saw this little arm pump in and out, so after the game I asked him what happened so he explained why he gt angry.

For me that was an important step for him as he is quite a gentleminded Kid, and I was quite worried he would let kids bully him on the rugby field, but hey ho, he is a tough little one

I didn't think you meant to take players THAT young biltongbek.

When can we expect to see your son for the springboks then?

Rory a lot of water has to flow under the bridge before then mate, the boytjie is only 8 now and in his first season of rugby.

Although it would be a dream come true, my purpose for him playing rugby is motivated by learning the values that this great sport can teach a young man, respect, camaraderie, pride, confidence, sportsmanship, how to be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.

If he can learn those values he'll be a stand up Guy, and my purpose is served on earth.

Bullsbok wrote:

emack2 wrote:Question?Biltong and co.how much leeway will Meyer be given?If he does the unthikable and loses say a couple of Tests versus England.As you say it is a young side and as many as 9 veterans are not available.BUT those missing are getting old [mostly and playing[or have been] overseas and out of the current loop.You have a real chance to build a strong side pre 3Ns and have 3 class goal kickers in the starting 15[likely].The way things are being reffed this year that is going to be a crucial advantage.The All Blacks have also a lot of names missing Kaino,Mealamu,Boric,Muliana ,Thorn,Woodcock [probably] Slade,Cory Jane,Cowan,Kahui,Weepu[unless he loses weight].Only two recognized Goal kickers in the squad,which could be crucial.Dan Carter kicked well last week end and started at 10.McCaw looked better than for at least a season and that was at8!!.June is really looking good 3 hard fought series maybe a few new faces,plus the Junior RWC.

Any defeat to the English no matter how many seniors retired , will not be tolerated by the saffa crowd .

I agree with Bullsbok, a new squad is not an excuse to lose, we should aim to be the victors, the new guys that will come in should be experienced enough to pull it through, I am tired of excuses, I just want to win.

biltongbek wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

emack2 wrote:Question?Biltong and co.how much leeway will Meyer be given?If he does the unthikable and loses say a couple of Tests versus England.As you say it is a young side and as many as 9 veterans are not available.BUT those missing are getting old [mostly and playing[or have been] overseas and out of the current loop.You have a real chance to build a strong side pre 3Ns and have 3 class goal kickers in the starting 15[likely].The way things are being reffed this year that is going to be a crucial advantage.The All Blacks have also a lot of names missing Kaino,Mealamu,Boric,Muliana ,Thorn,Woodcock [probably] Slade,Cory Jane,Cowan,Kahui,Weepu[unless he loses weight].Only two recognized Goal kickers in the squad,which could be crucial.Dan Carter kicked well last week end and started at 10.McCaw looked better than for at least a season and that was at8!!.June is really looking good 3 hard fought series maybe a few new faces,plus the Junior RWC.

Any defeat to the English no matter how many seniors retired , will not be tolerated by the saffa crowd .

I agree with Bullsbok, a new squad is not an excuse to lose, we should aim to be the victors, the new guys that will come in should be experienced enough to pull it through, I am tired of excuses, I just want to win.

On that we can both agree

I especially dont want to hear the phrase "we're building for the world cup".

Yeah, or measure my performances at the RWC, I will shoite myself if Meyer says that, also this sacraficing of one test over another, I expect a 75% win rate from Meyer nohing less

No point in aiming for less even if that is about 7% better than your averages when last checked.

biltongbek wrote:Rory a lot of water has to flow under the bridge before then mate, the boytjie is only 8 now and in his first season of rugby.

Although it would be a dream come true, my purpose for him playing rugby is motivated by learning the values that this great sport can teach a young man, respect, camaraderie, pride, confidence, sportsmanship, how to be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.

If he can learn those values he'll be a stand up Guy, and my purpose is served on earth.

Biltongbek, you sound like a great father.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Taffineastbourne

If you have nothing constructive to add to the thread then please do not bother posting at all. Your comments are unhelpful to the debate and clearly designed to annoy.

Ozzy,sorry about your lack of a sense of humour.I will say a prayer for you.Take a chill pill.Sorry if I touched a nerve,precious.

You call Ozzy precious, yet my comments on Lydiate not deserving MOTM in one game, led to a certain someone getting very frustrated and resorting to some very childish name calling.. all in the defence of his precious player. Do you not remember?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Rory a lot of water has to flow under the bridge before then mate, the boytjie is only 8 now and in his first season of rugby.

Although it would be a dream come true, my purpose for him playing rugby is motivated by learning the values that this great sport can teach a young man, respect, camaraderie, pride, confidence, sportsmanship, how to be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.

If he can learn those values he'll be a stand up Guy, and my purpose is served on earth.

Biltongbek, you sound like a great father.

Rory, I can only try to be mate, there is no perfect formula, we all make it up as we go along.

BB

A 75% win rate would be the best by far of any coach in the professional era.
Kitch's unblemished rate would have gone down obviously if he had lived on and continued to coach for a longer period of time.

Thats high expectations...and I reckon Mallett and White both had better players to work with.
I reckon a 65% would be more realistic... but you never know maybe Meyer will surprise us cynics.

Players invited to the final Springbok Planning Camp in Durban on 27 and 28 May:

Forwards (22): Coenie Oosthuizen, Tendai Mtawarira, Dean Greyling, Jannie du Plessis, Pat Cilliers, Werner Kruger, Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Flip van der Merwe, Eben Etzebeth, Andries Bekker, Juandré Kruger, Marcell Coetzee, CJ Stander, Heinrich Brüssow, Keegan Daniel, Willem Alberts, Jean Deysel, Pierre Spies, Ryan Kankowski, Josh Strauss.

Backs (20): Francois Hougaard, Jano Vermaak, Piet van Zyl, Morné Steyn, Pat Lambie, Elton Jantjies, Peter Grant, Wynand Olivier, Jean de Villiers, Juan de Jongh, JJ Engelbrecht, Bryan Habana, Bjorn Basson, JP Pietersen, Gio Aplon, Lwazi Mvovo, Akona Ndungane, Zane Kirchner, Jaco Taute, Joe Pietersen.


Even as a bulls fan i think this squad has a very unhealthy blue tinge ..JJ engelbrecht ,Wynand olivier,JANO VERMAAK , --- really hope Frans Steyn and maybe Ruan pienaar get called up

To be honest as much as I hate Maisiekind.. he does have a useful partnership with Morne and they know each other well... perhaps too well!

Think Duvenage is a little unlucky but good to see Piet van Zyl in there. good young player... another Grey College alumni also.

Can Grey College just set up their own test team please. They'd probably beat even the boks on their own.

Big mistake if Frans doesn't feature.... centres will be weak unless Lambie is played at 12.

Good to see Daniel in there also. Kankowski is a little surprising... huge talent but not been playing.

If Lambie plays centre, Habana and JP have to play, otherwise our our backline will be too light.

What are the chances of European based players being called up - thinking here particularly of Pienaer with Du Preez not playing

no chance for pienaar... Hougaard's bloed is blou.... enough said unfortunately.

With little time he may be adverse to new combinations or play guys out of position… rather he is more likely to stick with tried and tested i.e….

Morne & Maisiekind at 10 & 12.
JDV & De Jongh at 12 & 13

Looking at the side a Morne, JDV & De Jongh is the most settled as they know each others game well.

A Morne, Maisiekind & De Jongh combo would be too lightweight and lacks leadership.

A backline combination of Hougaard, Morne, Habana, JDV, De Jongh, Pietersen, Lambie would not be completely leftfield and is pretty much what PDivvy was playing last year. Not exactly inspring however and would be exposed to massive criticism from both SARU, media and fans if SA were to lose.

fa0019 wrote:BB

A 75% win rate would be the best by far of any coach in the professional era.
Kitch's unblemished rate would have gone down obviously if he had lived on and continued to coach for a longer period of time.

Thats high expectations...and I reckon Mallett and White both had better players to work with.
I reckon a 65% would be more realistic... but you never know maybe Meyer will surprise us cynics.

FA, disagree mate.

We had 72% under Nick Mallet
We had 67% under Jake White
We had 64% under Pieter de Villiers

For the last two years of Pieter de Villiers reign we lost 50% of our matches. That with a squad that was outdated, out game planned and outwitted . Just our record against Australia, winning 4 out of 11 alone shows how poor PDV really was.

Jake White had that win rate with a squad built virtually from scratch, whilst still sacraficing year end tour matches to rest players and a number of Tri Nation tests for "the greater good".

If Jake White focused all his energy on winnings he could have easily increased his win rate to above 70%, if PDV had any ability to adapt his game plan and was strong enough to get rid of outdated players he could have touched 70%.

Meyer is in charge now, he talks the talk, he has done his homework, he understands we need a more adaptive game plan, he says he believes every test is a must win, and he has a plethora of young exciting and promising youngsters to develop.

If he doesn't maintain a 75% win rate, I will be very disapppointed and not have much respect for him as a coach.

Let me put it differently, if I could be appointed head coach of SA, even with only the knowledge I have now, with the talent in this country, I will guarantee you a 75% win rate.

Bullsbok wrote:Players invited to the final Springbok Planning Camp in Durban on 27 and 28 May:

Forwards (22): Coenie Oosthuizen, Tendai Mtawarira, Dean Greyling, Jannie du Plessis, Pat Cilliers, Werner Kruger, Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Flip van der Merwe, Eben Etzebeth, Andries Bekker, Juandré Kruger, Marcell Coetzee, CJ Stander, Heinrich Brüssow, Keegan Daniel, Willem Alberts, Jean Deysel, Pierre Spies, Ryan Kankowski, Josh Strauss.

Backs (20): Francois Hougaard, Jano Vermaak, Piet van Zyl, Morné Steyn, Pat Lambie, Elton Jantjies, Peter Grant, Wynand Olivier, Jean de Villiers, Juan de Jongh, JJ Engelbrecht, Bryan Habana, Bjorn Basson, JP Pietersen, Gio Aplon, Lwazi Mvovo, Akona Ndungane, Zane Kirchner, Jaco Taute, Joe Pietersen.


Even as a bulls fan i think this squad has a very unhealthy blue tinge ..JJ engelbrecht ,Wynand olivier,JANO VERMAAK , --- really hope Frans Steyn and maybe Ruan pienaar get called up

I am quite happy with the look of this squad, there is certainly a youthfull bunch in here, now to see how many of them gets gametime.

It depends on your expectations really…. A win ratio is not the be all and end all… Jake White knew this and sacrificed wins for a RWC winners medal. I’m sure you’d be happier with a few % points down in exchange for victory in 3 years time.

Of course NZ don’t tend to send weak teams anywhere but they limped past the line in last years RWC and if it was held anywhere outside of NZ I doubt they would have won the trophy.

Generally however a world dominant team will have a rate of around +70% over the course of 3-4 years.

No in fact I won't, we have two titles, but our respect opposition had for us is dwindling due to inconsistent performances, you can keep the RWC for the next 12 years, if you give me a 75% win rate over that period.

The RWC meant a lot to me when we didn't have our name on the trophy, now being feared and respected means more.

Respect/Fear/Hate/Envy etc is important but just look at NZ and their 20+ year wait for the trophy... their success rate was well into 80% if I recall but come the RWC they were always burnt out.

They are probably the most admired team in world rugby in terms of who they have and what they can do... but its not necessarily done them any favours in the past.

After 5 unsucessful attempts when they were favourites or near favourites you'd have to admit that it wasn't just 'someone' was better on the day... it was something wrong with their strategy/model.

FA, to be honest I don't care about that, you've even seen Leinster copping criticism for winning the last 3 out of 4, it is the nature of being number 1.

I don't care whether they call us chokers all the time if we don't win the RWC, I don't care if they come with you are great but......

When I sit down in front of my TV or at the stadium I want to win, that provides me oodles more satisfaction than seeing us struggle along for 4 years and then lose the RWC due to circumstances we can't control.

That happens then you end up with nothing. Simples.

I don't think any bok side with players like Burger will ever be tagged chokers... well unless they have their hands round someones necks.... possible

Boks, unfortunately for everyone else always bring their A-game.... or at least as much as their coaching/selection allows them.

fa0019 wrote:I don't think any bok side with players like Burger will ever be tagged chokers... well unless they have their hands round someones necks.... possible

Boks, unfortunately for everyone else always bring their A-game.... or at least as much as their coaching/selection allows them.

Burger need to stay far away from any body part above the chest, they might call him "gouger" even if his intention was to take something out of the guys eye, after he was asked to do so.

Zander wrote:bluestone,

I agree, I was surprised when Lancaster named his squad that neither Attwood nor Garvey were in there. They both very much fill the enforcer role and Garvey is about 122 kg! So he would add a certain bulk to our lightweight second row.

I agree Zander. It concerns me that Lancaster and Co haven't figured out a proper balance to our pack yet. Particularly going down to SA we need a pack that is strong on the carry and that doesn't seem to be the case at present.

I think Lancaster will pick an 8 of:

1. A Corbisiero
2. D Hartley
3. D Cole
4. M Botha
5. G Parling
6. P Dowson
7. C Robshaw
8. B Morgan

16. L Mears 17. M Stevens 18. T Palmer 19. J Launchbury

That's all very well and good, but out of the entire pack you're really only looking at Morgan and Botha doing the majority of the carrying. None of the front row, bare Hartley a few years back, like to carry to any great effect. Parling does but not that well, and the same maybe said for Robshaw. They'll provide a good defence and scrummage but little in the way of carrying, although they're quite a mobile pack.

Having a 'ball playing' pack is fine, but it needs a high tempo game with some impetus provided from half-back. Something we'll be lacking with a certain young O Farrell who's bound to start at 10. If we had a 9. B Youngs 10. T Flood / C Hodgson combination i'd feel a lot happier. Look what happened the last time we played SA - we were munched at HQ. My pack, allowing for form obviously, would be:

1. A Corbisiero
2. D Hartley
3. D Cole
4. M Garvey
5. G Parling
6. J Haskell
7. C Robshaw
8. B Morgan

With a bench of 16. T Youngs 17. PDJ 18. J Launchbury 19. C Fearns. As opposed to the above bench this actually adds some impetus to the team coming on and loses nothing in terms of physicality and ability unlike Mears, Stevens, Palmer etc...

With the addition of these two and the bench I think it looks more able to cope with the inevitable Bok crash and bash, and impose more of our own game plan.

biltongbek wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I don't think any bok side with players like Burger will ever be tagged chokers... well unless they have their hands round someones necks.... possible

Boks, unfortunately for everyone else always bring their A-game.... or at least as much as their coaching/selection allows them.

Burger need to stay far away from any body part above the chest, they might call him "gouger" even if his intention was to take something out of the guys eye, after he was asked to do so.

Hartley should also follow that advice!

Chjw131 wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I don't think any bok side with players like Burger will ever be tagged chokers... well unless they have their hands round someones necks.... possible

Boks, unfortunately for everyone else always bring their A-game.... or at least as much as their coaching/selection allows them.

Burger need to stay far away from any body part above the chest, they might call him "gouger" even if his intention was to take something out of the guys eye, after he was asked to do so.

Hartley should also follow that advice!

Well you could just put a muzzle on Hartley, at least that way he is sorted, but Burger needs his hands for tackling, catching, rucking, goouging, strangling, choking............

I note that the Boks wining average is now 62.8 % since 1906 PDV was`nt far from that and he was reviled by most Bok supporters.Interestingly for what it is
worththe leading Super side the STORMERS with one lost are the 4th worst attacking side in the S15.Indications that Defence and Goalkicking is now the winning criteria.Boks should be $ Ns champs this year no bother using that criteria.

alan, not sure they are the worst attacking team, they certainly scored the least tries.

I think there is a balance between risk and reward that is often misinterpreted when it comes to using criteria to establish how effective a team is in attack.

The reality is the stormers can attack and do it well when they utilise it, however like we have all seen this season their motto is defence first, attack when it becomes necessary, otherwise take the points.

I don't really have too much an issue with that, after all it is how SA plays, as long as we vary our attack and not become predictable.

If we win 75% of our tests doing what is required then I am all for it, after all if you outscore your oppoent by 2 tries to 1 due to great defence, there is little wrong with that, as long as you can surprise the opponent with variable attacking methods, b eit different lines, players running into the back line, chip kicks etc.

As long as we do what is necessary to "earn the right to go wide" we might as well do it with some style.

They are the 4TH worst attacking side[Stormers] that`s according to Planet Rugby.In dications this year that it is Goals especially of the penalty variety is going to be the winning criteria.It isn`t going to be 2 tries against1.BUT who kick the most girls so The Boks will be in the box seat.HOW a side wins does`nt matter just that you win.

I think how you win does matter.

Certainly i`d rather see a side win scoring tries,but as long as my side wins even by a single point.I`d take 6 wins out of 6 in a 4Ns even if there all by penalties

I don't necessarily want to see 4 tries against NZ but I don't want to see us being out scored by 4 tries o 1 and win either.

The reality is sometimes you could dominate an opponent and score two well worked tries and the opposition scores three tries of which 1 is an intrcept against the run of play, but you deserve to win by a penalty kick due to the opposition defence comitting one offence after another to stop you from scoring.

Its all a balance I guess

Chjw131 wrote:

Zander wrote:bluestone,

I agree, I was surprised when Lancaster named his squad that neither Attwood nor Garvey were in there. They both very much fill the enforcer role and Garvey is about 122 kg! So he would add a certain bulk to our lightweight second row.

I agree Zander. It concerns me that Lancaster and Co haven't figured out a proper balance to our pack yet. Particularly going down to SA we need a pack that is strong on the carry and that doesn't seem to be the case at present.

I think Lancaster will pick an 8 of:

1. A Corbisiero
2. D Hartley
3. D Cole
4. M Botha
5. G Parling
6. P Dowson
7. C Robshaw
8. B Morgan

16. L Mears 17. M Stevens 18. T Palmer 19. J Launchbury

That's all very well and good, but out of the entire pack you're really only looking at Morgan and Botha doing the majority of the carrying. None of the front row, bare Hartley a few years back, like to carry to any great effect. Parling does but not that well, and the same maybe said for Robshaw. They'll provide a good defence and scrummage but little in the way of carrying, although they're quite a mobile pack.

Having a 'ball playing' pack is fine, but it needs a high tempo game with some impetus provided from half-back. Something we'll be lacking with a certain young O Farrell who's bound to start at 10. If we had a 9. B Youngs 10. T Flood / C Hodgson combination i'd feel a lot happier. Look what happened the last time we played SA - we were munched at HQ. My pack, allowing for form obviously, would be:

1. A Corbisiero
2. D Hartley
3. D Cole
4. M Garvey
5. G Parling
6. J Haskell
7. C Robshaw
8. B Morgan

With a bench of 16. T Youngs 17. PDJ 18. J Launchbury 19. C Fearns. As opposed to the above bench this actually adds some impetus to the team coming on and loses nothing in terms of physicality and ability unlike Mears, Stevens, Palmer etc...

With the addition of these two and the bench I think it looks more able to cope with the inevitable Bok crash and bash, and impose more of our own game plan.

You could always put in Marler instead of Corbisiero if you wanted a bit more carrying around the park.

Note that the Stormers have already been on our away tour... we won 3 out of 4 on the road against tough defences and I think we've done pretty well.

I recall BB saying post Cheetahs match that it one of the best matches he'd seen all year.
Not a try fest but still a very exciting and brutal contest.

These days we tend to slate matches if each side doesn't score 4 tries each regardless of the quality of the teams etc.

its not to say we haven't won on the back of our defence however but bonus points does not necessarily mean good rugby.

Quick question to all the South Africans, who do you think are the most dangerous England players? The ones who can hurt SA.

It would be really interesting to see where other people feel England's strengths are.

Zander I watched the whole six nations and my lasting memory of England is slow Ruck ball, their Scrum performances against Ireland, some pace. At the back, Morgan's runs and your number 6, I think his name i Croft?

I remember Barrits defence, the fact that Tuilagi didn't pass, and the fact that England showed great discipline on defence in their 22 .

So my expectation is we need to be wary of your Scrum, watch out for your back row, commit defenders to the Ruck when Tuilagi has the ball, and speed up the game.

If it sounds unflattering, I don't mean to, but I just had a nap, woke up, and answered this post.

biltongbek wrote:Zander I watched the whole six nations and my lasting memory of England is slow Ruck ball, their Scrum performances against Ireland, some pace. At the back, Morgan's runs and your number 6, I think his name i Croft?

I remember Barrits defence, the fact that Tuilagi didn't pass, and the fact that England showed great discipline on defence in their 22 .

So my expectation is we need to be wary of your Scrum, watch out for your back row, commit defenders to the Ruck when Tuilagi has the ball, and speed up the game.

If it sounds unflattering, I don't mean to, but I just had a nap, woke up, and answered this post.

I'd rather a truthful opinion than a flattering one.

Unfortunately Croft won't be avaliable due to a nasty injury and operation so we'll see someone different at 6. We have good future prospects at 13 Joseph, Lowe, Trinder who can all pass better than Tuilagi but don't offer the phisicality of Tuilagi so I'm not sure who the future 13 is for England.