Appreciating Rocky

First topic message reminder :

Morning

Since this fighter is one of the most beloved/underrated/overrated on the board I'd like to take an opportunity, once and for all , to memorialise some thoughts on him.

From what I've read and learned about Rocky Marciano over the many years in the beginning he was an acquired taste; it took a long time. But, even the sceptics soon become Marciano believers. He apparently was clumsier in sparring than many could imagine a ham-‘n’-egger against most half-decent boxers in the gym wearing his 16-ounce gloves that looked like the fluffy pillows from Debenhams the wife keeps buying for some reason each week. I see the flaws what the doubters see on tape don't get me wrong, but every guy who looked like they boxed rings around him, the ones who pinned his ears back, the ones never missed him with jabs, came out of the ring looking like he was dropped from a 10-story building and landed flat-footed. Rocky's cuffing, pawing, mauling, grazing shots, flicks to the sides when he was tied-up on the inside, impacted them like they'd been bumped by a rhino. From ringside many reporters said when Rocky landed, the only evidence was an "OOPH!" grimace and quiver.

Rocky was ponderous. Fighters could see the punches. They weren't surprised; they were beat down, every sparring partner who looked sensational against him, said the same thing exiting the ring: "I hurt all over." The wonderkinds and Robinson-clones that watched Rocky in the gym or at the Garden and licked their lips at a future match thought of him like cancer: He could only happen to the other guy.

Off a stat sheet, any number of guys now would be favoured over him, but doing it in the ring proved it would be a sobering experience. The lads yesterday Jeff, Windy, Chris etc mentioned how Archie one of the toughest creatures on earth held Rocky in the highest esteem.

There are certain dimensions to his game, that are not immediately obvious, that quickly became apparent to anybody who shared a ring with him from Louis to Ali.

I cant remember who said "it hurt to bump into him", but they probably summed it up best. He could seemingly make an oponent hurt for every second of every round, and he was a lot more unpredictable than people think.

This is one fighter who definitely had the devil inside him.

I tend to rate him in the listings higher than most, Rocky is my number 3, not the most glamorous c.v I accept, however his undefeated feat and winning streak is yet to be replicated in any era at the heavyweights top level, that is proof to me thats how difficult it is.

Thanks and have a great day.

Well you would have to use Boxrec, You tube or something similar, i've never just stumbled upon thing i've had to find them. I don't know anything without either reading it or seeing it

The Mighty Atom wrote:Well you would have to use Boxrec, You tube or something similar, i've never just stumbled upon thing i've had to find them. I don't know anything without either reading it or seeing it

Made me chuckle. I've often wondered why I've not swam with dolphins. Apparently you have to go in the water.

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

azania wrote:Ooops, sorry, I just re-read that post again (poisoning my family by preparing sunday lunch). I should have qualified it by saying that age may have caught up with JJW after a long gruelling career. Age is most definately a factor imo.

Thing is though, Azania, Walcott had been boxing with the legs of a twenty-one year old for twelve rounds. A boxer may age 'over night' as they say, but not over one minute; Walcott's age didn't suddenly become a factor in the break between rounds twelve and thirteen.

I beg to differ in that JJW didn't have the legs of a 21 year old in that fight. I've spent time looking at previous fights of his and he was slower. Likewise Vit is slower now than he was 10 years ago. I find it strange that all Rocky's opponents seem to defy not only logic but medical science also.

And no I didn't say that JJW's legs suddenly caught up with him between rounds. That would be silly even by my own standards.

What fights did he look quicker just out of interest?

At what point in his career was Walcott better than he was against Marciano?

I could easily answer that question, but as per previous comments, you would assume I used boxingrec or you tube.

I'd be slightly reassured that you'd be actually doing some research

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

azania wrote:Ooops, sorry, I just re-read that post again (poisoning my family by preparing sunday lunch). I should have qualified it by saying that age may have caught up with JJW after a long gruelling career. Age is most definately a factor imo.

Thing is though, Azania, Walcott had been boxing with the legs of a twenty-one year old for twelve rounds. A boxer may age 'over night' as they say, but not over one minute; Walcott's age didn't suddenly become a factor in the break between rounds twelve and thirteen.

I beg to differ in that JJW didn't have the legs of a 21 year old in that fight. I've spent time looking at previous fights of his and he was slower. Likewise Vit is slower now than he was 10 years ago. I find it strange that all Rocky's opponents seem to defy not only logic but medical science also.

And no I didn't say that JJW's legs suddenly caught up with him between rounds. That would be silly even by my own standards.

What fights did he look quicker just out of interest?

At what point in his career was Walcott better than he was against Marciano?

I could easily answer that question, but as per previous comments, you would assume I used boxingrec or you tube.

I'd be slightly reassured that you'd be actually doing some research

Unfortunately I've had to.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Well you would have to use Boxrec, You tube or something similar, i've never just stumbled upon thing i've had to find them. I don't know anything without either reading it or seeing it

Ha. Good response. My point is, after my arbitrary post naming 50 fighters I said would beat Rocky, you said I used boxingrec to find their names. I dont want a similar accusation.

azania wrote:

joeyjojo618 wrote:Is your wife cool with how much time you spend online panning Marciano Az?

I've already got my lawyers ready to sue Windy, rowley, Atom et al for when she files divorce proceedings. I'll cite them as reasons why I had no choice but to watch those videos.

Then I'm going to get one of those proxy server thingummies.

I nearly wrote ' poxy server ' then, but that would be Andy Murray, right ?

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

joeyjojo618 wrote:Is your wife cool with how much time you spend online panning Marciano Az?

I've already got my lawyers ready to sue Windy, rowley, Atom et al for when she files divorce proceedings. I'll cite them as reasons why I had no choice but to watch those videos.

Then I'm going to get one of those proxy server thingummies.

I nearly wrote ' poxy server ' then, but that would be Andy Murray, right ?

Ha.

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Well you would have to use Boxrec, You tube or something similar, i've never just stumbled upon thing i've had to find them. I don't know anything without either reading it or seeing it

Ha. Good response. My point is, after my arbitrary post naming 50 fighters I said would beat Rocky, you said I used boxingrec to find their names. I dont want a similar accusation.

Nah - everybody knows you picked them out of a hat.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Well you would have to use Boxrec, You tube or something similar, i've never just stumbled upon thing i've had to find them. I don't know anything without either reading it or seeing it

Ha. Good response. My point is, after my arbitrary post naming 50 fighters I said would beat Rocky, you said I used boxingrec to find their names. I dont want a similar accusation.

Nah - everybody knows you picked them out of a hat.

Ha !

If the hat had had a label we might have had ' Pierce of Bond Street ' to beat Marciano, also.

HumanWindmill wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Well you would have to use Boxrec, You tube or something similar, i've never just stumbled upon thing i've had to find them. I don't know anything without either reading it or seeing it

Ha. Good response. My point is, after my arbitrary post naming 50 fighters I said would beat Rocky, you said I used boxingrec to find their names. I dont want a similar accusation.

Nah - everybody knows you picked them out of a hat.

Ha !

If the hat had had a label we might have had ' Pierce of Bond Street ' to beat Marciano, also.

I should have included Mr Marks and Mr Spencer.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Well you would have to use Boxrec, You tube or something similar, i've never just stumbled upon thing i've had to find them. I don't know anything without either reading it or seeing it

Ha. Good response. My point is, after my arbitrary post naming 50 fighters I said would beat Rocky, you said I used boxingrec to find their names. I dont want a similar accusation.

Nah - everybody knows you picked them out of a hat.

Ha !

If the hat had had a label we might have had ' Pierce of Bond Street ' to beat Marciano, also.

I should have included Mr Marks and Mr Spencer.

Yep, Groucho and Frank to topple the crude slugger, no probs.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Well you would have to use Boxrec, You tube or something similar, i've never just stumbled upon thing i've had to find them. I don't know anything without either reading it or seeing it

Ha. Good response. My point is, after my arbitrary post naming 50 fighters I said would beat Rocky, you said I used boxingrec to find their names. I dont want a similar accusation.

Nah - everybody knows you picked them out of a hat.

Ha !

If the hat had had a label we might have had ' Pierce of Bond Street ' to beat Marciano, also.

I should have included Mr Marks and Mr Spencer.

Yep, Groucho and Frank to topple the crude slugger, no probs.

Frank was ok. Gave Mike a decent argument. Certainly had the beating of Rocky though. I'm sure I added him to the list.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Age in itself is not necessarily a factor, if it were and i'll bring him up again a 46 year old Moore wouldn't go life and death with a world class operator like Pastrano or Hopkins shouldn't beat Pavlik or draw with Pascal.

People age differently and each boxer has to be judged on his own rather than generalising that at a certain age boxers are past it.

Hopkins, especially, is a great example, in my opinion.

It's only relatively recently that Hopkins' stock has enjoyed such a sharp spike. Always a fine technician and respected middleweight, but it is in his latter years that he has broken into most folks' top ten middles lists, rather than when he was in his ' physical ' prime.

Walcott and Hopkins are blood brothers in this regard.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Well you would have to use Boxrec, You tube or something similar, i've never just stumbled upon thing i've had to find them. I don't know anything without either reading it or seeing it

Ha. Good response. My point is, after my arbitrary post naming 50 fighters I said would beat Rocky, you said I used boxingrec to find their names. I dont want a similar accusation.

Nah - everybody knows you picked them out of a hat.

Ha !

If the hat had had a label we might have had ' Pierce of Bond Street ' to beat Marciano, also.

I should have included Mr Marks and Mr Spencer.

Yep, Groucho and Frank to topple the crude slugger, no probs.

Frank was ok. Gave Mike a decent argument. Certainly had the beating of Rocky though. I'm sure I added him to the list.

I meant Groucho Marx and Frank Spencer.

HumanWindmill wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Age in itself is not necessarily a factor, if it were and i'll bring him up again a 46 year old Moore wouldn't go life and death with a world class operator like Pastrano or Hopkins shouldn't beat Pavlik or draw with Pascal.

People age differently and each boxer has to be judged on his own rather than generalising that at a certain age boxers are past it.

Hopkins, especially, is a great example, in my opinion.

It's only relatively recently that Hopkins' stock has enjoyed such a sharp spike. Always a fine technician and respected middleweight, but it is in his latter years that he has broken into most folks' top ten middles lists, rather than when he was in his ' physical ' prime.

Walcott and Hopkins are blood brothers in this regard.

I was wondering when someone would bring Hop's age into the equation. Yes it is remarkable that he has managed to remain as good as he is despite his age. Far better than Foreman as George was being thoroughly out boxed before the punch on the very chinny Moorer landed. Hop actually out boxes others today or remains very competitive.

But is he that good. His destruction of Tito was remarkable. His peak? WHo knows. He lost a disputed decision (not disputed to me) against JC. Prior to that he lost twice to Taylor. Drew with a very average Pascal. Personally I wouldn't include him on my top 10. He's an accident waiting to happen.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Well you would have to use Boxrec, You tube or something similar, i've never just stumbled upon thing i've had to find them. I don't know anything without either reading it or seeing it

Ha. Good response. My point is, after my arbitrary post naming 50 fighters I said would beat Rocky, you said I used boxingrec to find their names. I dont want a similar accusation.

Nah - everybody knows you picked them out of a hat.

Ha !

If the hat had had a label we might have had ' Pierce of Bond Street ' to beat Marciano, also.

I should have included Mr Marks and Mr Spencer.

Yep, Groucho and Frank to topple the crude slugger, no probs.

Frank was ok. Gave Mike a decent argument. Certainly had the beating of Rocky though. I'm sure I added him to the list.

I meant Groucho Marx and Frank Spencer.

Bruno, Spencer. Both very close in terms of boxing ability.

What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

For the record here, my opinion of Floyd is lower than that of Rocky. Definately a better boxer to look at, but Rocky would have destroyed him every minute of the minute the fight would last for.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

For the record here, my opinion of Floyd is lower than that of Rocky. Definately a better boxer to look at, but Rocky would have destroyed him every minute of the minute the fight would last for.

Fair enough.

I believe that Robinson's people were of the same opinion.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

For the record here, my opinion of Floyd is lower than that of Rocky. Definately a better boxer to look at, but Rocky would have destroyed him every minute of the minute the fight would last for.

Fair enough.

I believe that Robinson's people were of the same opinion.

And with good reason. I'd take SRR to beat him at any age.

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

At what weight?

prettyboy1304 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

At what weight?

Heavyweight, believe it or not, prettyboy.

It fell through because Johansson upended Patterson, triggering the trilogy.

prettyboy1304 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

At what weight?

I dont think weight stips played much of a role then. Also I'd be surprised is they didn't put the fighter on a scale weighed against bags of sugar.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

At what weight?

I dont think weight stips played much of a role then. Also I'd be surprised is they didn't put the fighter on a scale weighed against bags of sugar.

Robinson couldn't have fought Marciano just to big and strong for SRR no matter what age he was.

Rocky's lowest weight was 178. SRR highest was 160 their is no way they could have fought. IMO SRR is ATG#1 but he wasn't superman.

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

At what weight?

I dont think weight stips played much of a role then. Also I'd be surprised is they didn't put the fighter on a scale weighed against bags of sugar.

Robinson couldn't have fought Marciano just to big and strong for SRR no matter what age he was.

Exactly.

Patterson was fast, skillful, and could bang, yet Robinson's people were negotiating for him to challenge Floyd. Marciano was crude, no doubt, but he was a fearsome fighter - strong as a bull, with massive reserves of stamina, solid chin, rough and ready, and an almighty wallop. A fighter doesn't have to be a fancy Dan to be a very formidable force.

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

At what weight?

I dont think weight stips played much of a role then. Also I'd be surprised is they didn't put the fighter on a scale weighed against bags of sugar.

Robinson couldn't have fought Marciano just to big and strong for SRR no matter what age he was.

I wouldn't go that far. Robbinson was a welter. At mid he wasn't as good. At HW he would be decimated.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

At what weight?

I dont think weight stips played much of a role then. Also I'd be surprised is they didn't put the fighter on a scale weighed against bags of sugar.

Robinson couldn't have fought Marciano just to big and strong for SRR no matter what age he was.

I wouldn't go that far. Robbinson was a welter. At mid he wasn't as good. At HW he would be decimated.

So you agree with me then.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

At what weight?

I dont think weight stips played much of a role then. Also I'd be surprised is they didn't put the fighter on a scale weighed against bags of sugar.

Robinson couldn't have fought Marciano just to big and strong for SRR no matter what age he was.

I wouldn't go that far. Robbinson was a welter. At mid he wasn't as good. At HW he would be decimated.

My point is that the fight WAS being put together, but to my knowledge nobody EVER floated the idea of Robinson v Marciano, and rightly so - it would have been a bloodbath.

In other words, az, not everybody believed Marciano to be a useless carthorse.

So Azania I return from the pub having seen Arsenal get lucky against Blackpool and you still haven't let me know when Walcott was at his peak and what fights of his you've seen?

Pascal may not be the greatest light heavyweight but he's still better than average but the point I was making is this, should a 43+ year old really be able to compete against the likes of Calzaghe, Pavlik and Pascal in the first place going merely by age.

Moorer wasn't particularly chinny and the punch landed on him by Foreman would have taken out better heavyweights than he.

Patterson beat Bonavena whom I believe you picked to beat Marciano, yet you rate him lower, strange considering how much weight you place on head to heads.

Would it have been at LHW?

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

At what weight?

I dont think weight stips played much of a role then. Also I'd be surprised is they didn't put the fighter on a scale weighed against bags of sugar.

Robinson couldn't have fought Marciano just to big and strong for SRR no matter what age he was.

I wouldn't go that far. Robbinson was a welter. At mid he wasn't as good. At HW he would be decimated.

So you agree with me then.

I agree that it would be suicide for SRR to have fought Rocky at any state. A fight with Patterson would have bene interesting though seeing as Patterson was possibly the worst champion in history (outside of Johansson).

prettyboy1304 wrote:Would it have been at LHW?

Yes. SRR was not that good at middleweight. He earned his greatness as a welterweight where he was simply THE best ever. Anything above that would have been touch and go. At LHW would have been legalised murder. Not against Patterson though who had the chin of a flyweight and was easy to hit.

prettyboy1304 wrote:Would it have been at LHW?

No, it was scheduled to be a title fight at heavyweight.

Now, Patterson started out at lightheavy, which is fair enough, but he still weighed around 185lb. at heavy. Had the fight come off Robinson would have been giving a lot of weight away and would have been thirty eight or nine, since the fight would likely not have taken place until 1960.

Personally, I think Patterson would have beaten him - and probably handily - but I dread to think what Rocky might have done to him.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:Would it have been at LHW?

Yes. SRR was not that good at middleweight. He earned his greatness as a welterweight where he was simply THE best ever. Anything above that would have been touch and go. At LHW would have been legalised murder. Not against Patterson though who had the chin of a flyweight and was easy to hit.

Patterson would have been more suitable. Although I still think he beats SRR. Marciano would have eat him alive.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:What do you make of this, az ?

If Patterson had beaten Johansson first time out, there was already a fight being made for him to defend against Sugar Ray Robinson, who would have been thirty nine by the time they would have squared off.

Why was there never an effort made by Robinson's people to match him with Marciano ?

At what weight?

I dont think weight stips played much of a role then. Also I'd be surprised is they didn't put the fighter on a scale weighed against bags of sugar.

Robinson couldn't have fought Marciano just to big and strong for SRR no matter what age he was.

I wouldn't go that far. Robbinson was a welter. At mid he wasn't as good. At HW he would be decimated.

My point is that the fight WAS being put together, but to my knowledge nobody EVER floated the idea of Robinson v Marciano, and rightly so - it would have been a bloodbath.

In other words, az, not everybody believed Marciano to be a useless carthorse.

Rocky had a wonderful chin and a murderous punch. He would have walked through SRR and murdered him. You guys have seriously misunderstood what I have been saying.

Sorry, az, but you're incorrect.

As I've just said, the proposed fight with Patterson was to have been a title fight at heavyweight. Preliminary negotiations were already underway, but Ingo spoiled the party by knocking out Patterson.

Think your now starting to be a bit harsh on Patterson

Chuvalo, Bonavena, Johannson, Moore and Durelle were all good wins, top 20 heavyweight for me, was around in the golden age past his best but was still a top rated Heavyweight for over 15 years

HumanWindmill wrote:Sorry, az, but you're incorrect.

As I've just said, the proposed fight with Patterson was to have been a title fight at heavyweight. Preliminary negotiations were already underway, but Ingo spoiled the party by knocking out Patterson.

Thank god he did wouldn't have been good for SRR to fight Patterson at HW. SRR was past his prime at MW.

The Mighty Atom wrote:So Azania I return from the pub having seen Arsenal get lucky against Blackpool and you still haven't let me know when Walcott was at his peak and what fights of his you've seen?

Pascal may not be the greatest light heavyweight but he's still better than average but the point I was making is this, should a 43+ year old really be able to compete against the likes of Calzaghe, Pavlik and Pascal in the first place going merely by age.

Moorer wasn't particularly chinny and the punch landed on him by Foreman would have taken out better heavyweights than he.

Patterson beat Bonavena whom I believe you picked to beat Marciano, yet you rate him lower, strange considering how much weight you place on head to heads.

You call 3-1 and several missed opportunities lucky? So much for objectivity. There's a whole gallery of his fights on you tube. Its pointless and you know it.

Pascal is very average. Today's LHW division is very average. To say otherwise is quite frankly ridiculous imo.

Floyd beat Oscar because Oscar didn't hit as hard as Rocky. He imo, would have out hustled and out worked rocky. Would have been a close fight between two similar fighters.

prettyboy1304 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Sorry, az, but you're incorrect.

As I've just said, the proposed fight with Patterson was to have been a title fight at heavyweight. Preliminary negotiations were already underway, but Ingo spoiled the party by knocking out Patterson.

Thank god he did wouldn't have been good for SRR to fight Patterson at HW. SRR was past his prime at MW.

Agreed.

1960 was the year that Robinson lost his middleweight crown, for the final time, to Paul Pender. If Pender could beat him at that stage then it's fair to conclude that he'd have been seriously out of his depth with Patterson.

HumanWindmill wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Sorry, az, but you're incorrect.

As I've just said, the proposed fight with Patterson was to have been a title fight at heavyweight. Preliminary negotiations were already underway, but Ingo spoiled the party by knocking out Patterson.

Thank god he did wouldn't have been good for SRR to fight Patterson at HW. SRR was past his prime at MW.

Agreed.

1960 was the year that Robinson lost his middleweight crown, for the final time, to Paul Pender. If Pender could beat him at that stage then it's fair to conclude that he'd have been seriously out of his depth with Patterson.

Can't argue with that mate. Sound logic

Think Pascal proved against Froch despite losing he wasn't average or is Froch average as well because he struggled past him.

Light Heavyweight isn't at it's best but Pascal, Dawson, Hopkins, Cloud and Cleverly are all good fighters, it's starting to pick up from where it was.

Bonavena hit hard enough to knock Patterson down so his power was definitely a worry in that fight

HumanWindmill wrote:Sorry, az, but you're incorrect.

As I've just said, the proposed fight with Patterson was to have been a title fight at heavyweight. Preliminary negotiations were already underway, but Ingo spoiled the party by knocking out Patterson.

Sorry, have I missed something? Incorrect in what? SRR would have a very good chance of beating Floyd, but never Rocky at HW or any other weight.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Think Pascal proved against Froch despite losing he wasn't average or is Froch average as well because he struggled past him.

Light Heavyweight isn't at it's best but Pascal, Dawson, Hopkins, Cloud and Cleverly are all good fighters, it's starting to pick up from where it was.

Bonavena hit hard enough to knock Patterson down so his power was definitely a worry in that fight

LHW is a decent division Syllakh and Despaigne are very good as well.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Think Pascal proved against Froch despite losing he wasn't average or is Froch average as well because he struggled past him.

Light Heavyweight isn't at it's best but Pascal, Dawson, Hopkins, Cloud and Cleverly are all good fighters, it's starting to pick up from where it was.

Bonavena hit hard enough to knock Patterson down so his power was definitely a worry in that fight

Putting Floyd down is no great achievement. The man has an extremely fragile chin.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Sorry, az, but you're incorrect.

As I've just said, the proposed fight with Patterson was to have been a title fight at heavyweight. Preliminary negotiations were already underway, but Ingo spoiled the party by knocking out Patterson.

Sorry, have I missed something? Incorrect in what? SRR would have a very good chance of beating Floyd, but never Rocky at HW or any other weight.

Couple of posts up you said that the fight with Patterson was to have been at lightheavy, mate.

Probably a misprint. ( Actually, probably not but ............. )

He was a bloody hard man to keep down on the floor, despite his fallibility to being floored only Liston managed to keep him down for the count. His heart and determination were second to none, many flaws but a nicer guy outside the ring there will never be.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Think your now starting to be a bit harsh on Patterson

Chuvalo, Bonavena, Johannson, Moore and Durelle were all good wins, top 20 heavyweight for me, was around in the golden age past his best but was still a top rated Heavyweight for over 15 years

I'd rank Patterson lower than Rocky. I dont see how he'd be top 20.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Sorry, az, but you're incorrect.

As I've just said, the proposed fight with Patterson was to have been a title fight at heavyweight. Preliminary negotiations were already underway, but Ingo spoiled the party by knocking out Patterson.

Sorry, have I missed something? Incorrect in what? SRR would have a very good chance of beating Floyd, but never Rocky at HW or any other weight.

Couple of posts up you said that the fight with Patterson was to have been at lightheavy, mate.

Probably a misprint. ( Actually, probably not but ............. )

Nope. I believe that was prettyboy who said that.