Scotland - the brave.

First topic message reminder :

The significance of this win by scotland should not be under estimated.

In the last decade at home South Africa has not lost a match to a home nation in 13 matches.

In the last decade at home Australia has only lost to one home nation and that was england before today's match, the last of the four wins in the decade by England was in June of 2010 out of a total of 19 matches.

In the last decade New Zealand has only lost one match to a home nation and that was England on 14 June 2003 out of 14 matches.

That gives a record of 5 wins in 46 away matches.

England 4 wins out of 14
Scotland 1 win out of 8
Ireland 0 wins out of 13
Wales 0 wins out of 11

Now Scotland may have been the perennial underdog in the six nations for some time, but the one reality that cannot be taken away from them is heir ability to up their intensity when playing their three traditional southern Hemisphere foes. To add to this record they have beaten South africa twice at home in the last decade and also managed another win over Australia in the last decade.

Yes, Ireland and England has been more successful against these three SH teams, but the fact is you can never write off the scottish.

Now we could say conditions weren't perfect for the Australian backline to attack at pace, and handling was atrocious from both team making many mistakes. We could also say that it wasn't the best planning by the ARU (which I most certainly agree with), but the win is in the record books.

For all the flack that Scottish fans have endured about their lack of this and lack of that during the world cup and the six nations, I just want to say, well done, great result, and you should be proud of your team.

emack2 wrote:You are all entitled to your own opinions i`m an Anglo -Scot with relations who immi grated to both.Australia and New Zealand after the Second World War.Ben Roff is also a distant[very] relative of mine.I am THE greatest AllBlacks fan you`ll ever find BUT I support my native teams too.In the RWC England and Argentina were BOTH worse than Scotland in there respective matches but Scotland lost both.England except the versus the weak teams in the Group were total Rubbish.THAT pains me speaking with my England hat on all the advances England had made Pre -RWC.Went down the tubes with MJ reverting to the old RWC formula.Stick it up your jumper and let Jonny kick the Goals.
England was`nt alone in that but god was it awful to watch even Australia played a negative game.

There's another good'un. Losing both matches on the trot but somehow being the best team.

Morgannwg wrote:

There's another good'un. Losing both matches on the trot but somehow being the best team.

Wales at the world cup?

PSW how boring are you today . No but I think Wales finished 4th, that's higher than Englands finish. Wales then went on to secure another Grand Slam in the following 6 Nations whilst Englands Dave Strettle was still crying "We woz robbed! ."

EXACTLY. Wales lost three games at the world cup, but still came out of it with far more credit that England. Surely that was PSW's point..?

emack2 wrote:In the RWC England and Argentina were BOTH worse than Scotland in there respective matches but Scotland lost both.England except the versus the weak teams in the Group were total Rubbish.THAT pains me speaking with my England hat on all the advances England had made Pre -RWC.Went down the tubes with MJ reverting to the old RWC formula.Stick it up your jumper and let Jonny kick the Goals.
England was`nt alone in that but god was it awful to watch even Australia played a negative game.

Scotland were awful in those games as well, but because people didn't expect them to be as good they got more credit for it. You see this all the time when a less successful side comes close to beating a big hitter like the All Blacks or Springboks. People always talk about how the small team deserved to win, even though they still weren't actually as good as the other side, but just closer than was expected.

thomh wrote:EXACTLY. Wales lost three games at the world cup, but still came out of it with far more credit that England. Surely that was PSW's point..?

No, PSW is being a crap WUM as usual. The 'Grand Slammers' finished higher in the RWC than England and score more points, which is probably why they came out of it with far more credit.

"New skipper Pocock had to be treated for the effects of hypothermia at the end of the Scotland defeat, while all the players admitted they were the worst conditions they had ever played in."

Jeez, makes me wonder how bad the conditions have to be before the game is called off.

Peter, Morgan- I thought this thread was about Scotland?

Notch wrote:Peter, Morgan- I thought this thread was about Scotland?

Don't be silly. All threads are, at their most basic level, about Wales.

IanBru wrote:

Notch wrote:Peter, Morgan- I thought this thread was about Scotland?

Don't be silly. All threads are, at their most basic level, about Wales.

I (and every other poster) were discussing Scotland rugby. Peter was the one who brought Wales into it, an attempted poor WUM. Learn to read and don't quote me on it for sticking up for my team .

thomh wrote:EXACTLY. Wales lost three games at the world cup, but still came out of it with far more credit that England. Surely that was PSW's point..?

No surely everyone is out to get Wales, and not a single poster on here is massively paranoid and takes themselves far too seriously. Im pretty sure its impossible to mention the W world without trying to pick a fight.

It was pretty poor of me, I should know better next time than to point out parallels.

Will you please get back on topic FFS. This thread is not about the Grand Slammers. It is about the 'Wooden Spooners' beating Aus in their backyard. And yes you were trying to wum so don't act like you weren't by coat-tailing someone else's comment. Not even worth a rating out of 10 it was that poor.

So does anyone know who got man of the match?

Don't know, but I would have given it to Strokosch.

Other candidates for me would be Murray, Gray, Rennie and Barclay. Obviously has to be a forward.

Strokosch was awesome though. Stopped Aussie momentum over and over again and tackled himself into the ground. Total nuisance throughout the match.

Quick question guys! Despite having watched rugby and played rugby for years and years I still struggle with rules some times...

I'm watching the Aus vs Scot match again and noticed in the first 10mins there was a moment when Blair knocked the ball forward into the air after picking the ball out from the ruck. First time round I thought this was because it was very wet, but I looked back at it in slow motion and the Wallabies number 4 who was opposite blair on other side of the ruck swiped at it. You can see Laidlaw raising his arms in disgust afterwards.

Is that legal? Are you allowed to reach over the ruck and swat the ball from the no.9's hand?

Cheers!

mckay1402 wrote:So does anyone know who got man of the match?

I don't remember a game in the SH that last had a MOTM.

If you are on your feet and coming through the middle of the ruck then you can do what you like. It's the other sides' fault for not protecting the ruck properly. If you do it from the side of the ruck then you are offside and a penalty should be given. Note however that as soon as the scrum half puts his hands on the ball, then it's open play. There are often fine lines here.

Morgannwg wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:So does anyone know who got man of the match?

I don't remember a game in the SH that last had a MOTM.

I think McCaw usually awards it to himself in his capacity as match referee.

O do they not do that then? I thought it was usually the broadcaster that did it...

Stuart Barnes probably gave it to Charlie Hodgson.

mckay1402 wrote:So does anyone know who got man of the match?

Moore

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:So does anyone know who got man of the match?

I don't remember a game in the SH that last had a MOTM.

I think McCaw usually awards it to himself in his capacity as match referee.

When did the match referee make the award ever?

Good point. It was a silly suggestion.

funnyExiledScot wrote:If you are on your feet and coming through the middle of the ruck then you can do what you like.

Not quite, you can't pick the ball up. It becomes a mini scrum if you like, you have to drive over the ball, the guy behind you can then pick up the ball

So if you're on your feet coming through the middle of the ruck you can't pick up the ball?? Not sure that's right.

Kia,a few points my allusions to Invercargill and Dunedin was not about my relatives.It was to point out that Scotland are at home playing in winter weather
areas alluded to.So wet and windy suits them,ANY win by ANY country away in another SH country is good there not that plentiful.Scotland has a pretty fair record in RWCs,think this was the only time they failed to progress from there group 2011.Scotland has a habit of pulling of suprise wins in bad weather,a couple of years ago.Both France and England only had to turn up to win according to the pundits.Both sides lost in close games to Paterson`s goal kicking[when I say a couple it could be 4 or 5.]I`m not stupid enough to herald it as a new dawn for Scotland just take the win and well done to them.
BOTH sides were not at full strength,and Australia especially was a bit of a scratch team.The weather was a great leveller and 3 penalties to 2 is just one of those games.I was very surprised that Australia has only won 58% of its games under Robbie Deans.

funnyExiledScot wrote:If you are on your feet and coming through the middle of the ruck then you can do what you like. It's the other sides' fault for not protecting the ruck properly. If you do it from the side of the ruck then you are offside and a penalty should be given. Note however that as soon as the scrum half puts his hands on the ball, then it's open play. There are often fine lines here.

Ahh cheers! Yeah basically Aus no.4 was on the side of the ruck waiting for blair to pick the ball up and he reached out and swatted the ball the minute blair picked it up. Is that one of those instances where its 50/50 on wether its legal or not? Or because blair has picked the ball up is it legal?

If he's off his feet or offside at the ruck, then he's out of play when Blair touches the ball so can't interfere. If he's onside and on his feet when Blair picks up the ball, and he gets to Blair, then he's ok.

At least that's my interpretation.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:So does anyone know who got man of the match?

Moore

Yeah - that's what I heard on the ABC Radio broadcast.

funnyExiledScot wrote:If he's off his feet or offside at the ruck, then he's out of play when Blair touches the ball so can't interfere. If he's onside and on his feet when Blair picks up the ball, and he gets to Blair, then he's ok.

At least that's my interpretation.

Cheers FES! Pretty sure it was legal then, just looked a bit dodgey because he didn't have to move forward to reach Blair.

bsando wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:If you are on your feet and coming through the middle of the ruck then you can do what you like. It's the other sides' fault for not protecting the ruck properly. If you do it from the side of the ruck then you are offside and a penalty should be given. Note however that as soon as the scrum half puts his hands on the ball, then it's open play. There are often fine lines here.

Ahh cheers! Yeah basically Aus no.4 was on the side of the ruck waiting for blair to pick the ball up and he reached out and swatted the ball the minute blair picked it up. Is that one of those instances where its 50/50 on wether its legal or not? Or because blair has picked the ball up is it legal?

Not quite. You can come through the ruck but still if it is a "ruck" must not use the hands on the ball and stay on the feet.

emack2 wrote:I was very surprised that Australia has only won 58% of its games under Robbie Deans.

Australia's low record under Deans is primarily due to his record against NZ (He's played us 15 times for 3 wins). Most teams have a pretty low winning % since Deans took over.

NZ 83%
SA 62%
France 59%
Australia 59%
England 57%
Ireland 56%
Scotland 42%

blackcanelion wrote:

emack2 wrote:I was very surprised that Australia has only won 58% of its games under Robbie Deans.

Australia's low record under Deans is primarily due to his record against NZ (He's played us 15 times for 3 wins). Most teams have a pretty low winning % since Deans took over.

NZ 83%
SA 62%
France 59%
Australia 59%
England 57%
Ireland 56%
Scotland 42%

Very interesting stats - I think that Dingo's win rate is now something like 56%.

Compared to McQueen whose win rate was 79%, that doesn't look very good.

I think you'll find that Scotland have a 100% winning record over robbie Deans!

To be fair to Deans he was tasked with changing the guard and bringing through a new generation of players. Not always an easy task. He has also won a Tri-Nations title, again, credit for that.

Personally I think Pocock's leadership was a big part in the defeat on Tuesday. He got bullied by the crowd and failed to mind the scoreboard. Australia should have kicked points at every opportunity in the third quarter of the game. Had they got themselves into anything more than a 6 point lead Scotland could not have recovered. By the time they figured this out and started going for drop goals, they were getting desparate and botched the execution.

Personally I rate Deans as a coach and would give him more time.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

bsando wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:If you are on your feet and coming through the middle of the ruck then you can do what you like. It's the other sides' fault for not protecting the ruck properly. If you do it from the side of the ruck then you are offside and a penalty should be given. Note however that as soon as the scrum half puts his hands on the ball, then it's open play. There are often fine lines here.

Ahh cheers! Yeah basically Aus no.4 was on the side of the ruck waiting for blair to pick the ball up and he reached out and swatted the ball the minute blair picked it up. Is that one of those instances where its 50/50 on wether its legal or not? Or because blair has picked the ball up is it legal?

Not quite. You can come through the ruck but still if it is a "ruck" must not use the hands on the ball and stay on the feet.

My take on it. If you come through the middle of the ruck on your feet, bind with an opposing player and he stops you, then you will be penalised for hands in the ruck if you touch the ball.

If however, you come flying into the ruck like a super hero (on your feet through the gate) and smash the opposing player back so that he falls over and flattens his own scrum half and there is noone else bound to you, then you can pick up that ball and run towards the tryline for glory (with your cape billowing behind you).

Nice description of Ali Strokosch there