Scotland - the brave.

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The significance of this win by scotland should not be under estimated.

In the last decade at home South Africa has not lost a match to a home nation in 13 matches.

In the last decade at home Australia has only lost to one home nation and that was england before today's match, the last of the four wins in the decade by England was in June of 2010 out of a total of 19 matches.

In the last decade New Zealand has only lost one match to a home nation and that was England on 14 June 2003 out of 14 matches.

That gives a record of 5 wins in 46 away matches.

England 4 wins out of 14
Scotland 1 win out of 8
Ireland 0 wins out of 13
Wales 0 wins out of 11

Now Scotland may have been the perennial underdog in the six nations for some time, but the one reality that cannot be taken away from them is heir ability to up their intensity when playing their three traditional southern Hemisphere foes. To add to this record they have beaten South africa twice at home in the last decade and also managed another win over Australia in the last decade.

Yes, Ireland and England has been more successful against these three SH teams, but the fact is you can never write off the scottish.

Now we could say conditions weren't perfect for the Australian backline to attack at pace, and handling was atrocious from both team making many mistakes. We could also say that it wasn't the best planning by the ARU (which I most certainly agree with), but the win is in the record books.

For all the flack that Scottish fans have endured about their lack of this and lack of that during the world cup and the six nations, I just want to say, well done, great result, and you should be proud of your team.

George I agree with you three points. But four not fair about "a referee who let the Wallabies seal off the ball all day without penalty" Australia concede 2x as many penalty on attack as defender. And scotland less penalty for defender rucks despise only 30% possession. Referee was not favour Australia.

Morgannwg wrote:

thomh wrote:Morgannwg

Read the AlynDavies post further up this thread. Radge didn't say the post was aimed at you.

I can see that now. Sorry Radge. I think I may have got you confused with another scottish poster aswell, the one everyone shouts at but I forgets his name! I don't agree with Alyn's comment. I hear the same thing from the English/Irish every time Wales beat someone. It's just bitterness.

You must have a good memory then, I dont remember the last time wales beat a tri nations side

I'm not saying Scotland don't deserve credit for the win, but neither would I be overly optimistic beating an Australian team with a third of the team making their first ever starts and most of the others being down the pecking order.

It's not a question of jelousy either as a few posters mentioned, Wales have beaten Scotland 8 in the last 9 games. I just think Scotland need to do a lot more to prove they have turned any kind of a corner.

anotherworldofpain wrote:George I agree with you three points. But four not fair about "a referee who let the Wallabies seal off the ball all day without penalty" Australia concede 2x as many penalty on attack as defender. And scotland less penalty for defender rucks despise only 30% possession. Referee was not favour Australia.

AWOP, I am going to strongly disagree with you there, I made the comment a number of times on the match thread.

In fact a while ago I got the SA referees website which explained exactly when is it legal to run as a double barrel, in other words there is a hammer running behind the ball carrier, the hammer is not supposed to go off his feet when the ball carrier is tackled, otherwise it is seen as sealing off the ball.

We lost a test match against OZ in the last minute because of that, we did what they did today and got penalised and Beale kicked a 50 metre penalty.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

thomh wrote:Morgannwg

Read the AlynDavies post further up this thread. Radge didn't say the post was aimed at you.

I can see that now. Sorry Radge. I think I may have got you confused with another scottish poster aswell, the one everyone shouts at but I forgets his name! I don't agree with Alyn's comment. I hear the same thing from the English/Irish every time Wales beat someone. It's just bitterness.

You must have a good memory then, I dont remember the last time wales beat a tri nations side

I think the key word in there was someone, referring to any team in general. Do you remember Wales beating England and going on to secure the GRAND SLAM?

Morgannwg wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

thomh wrote:Morgannwg

Read the AlynDavies post further up this thread. Radge didn't say the post was aimed at you.

I can see that now. Sorry Radge. I think I may have got you confused with another scottish poster aswell, the one everyone shouts at but I forgets his name! I don't agree with Alyn's comment. I hear the same thing from the English/Irish every time Wales beat someone. It's just bitterness.

You must have a good memory then, I dont remember the last time wales beat a tri nations side

I think the key word in there was someone, referring to any team in general. Do you remember Wales beating England and going on to secure the GRAND SLAM?

Yeah werent england missing half their first team and in a transitional year?

We woz robbed, Dave Strettle went to an all boys christian school and would never tell a lie. We woz robbed!

Samoa last year and now Scotland. Australia have a habit of losing these games. Shows their depth is not as impressive as the other big two and shows if your test team starts with an S, you have a good chance. Spain should be getting their invitation to play a test first up next year!!

England was the last Home Nation team to beat NZ in the NH. That was an experimental side as well but it still gets written in the history books as a loss and rightly so. Plenty of experienced players on that day and plenty today who knew how to win. So rightfully celebrate this Scotland as a great win and one to be cherished by fans who have had their fair and unfair share of bad luck in recent times. All the very best for the rest of this tour and you should be proud of the boys.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Ahh that ole chestnut of it being Australia A. I'm not sure why a Welshman has to come on and be so downbeat on a team who have had their problems and have just rolled the world number 2s in their back yard?

Scotland could only play and beat the team in front of them and they did just that. I hope wales can do the sam. If tthey do I'll be giving out the congratulations instead of trying to diminish the importance of such a well won and well defended game.

Wouldn't worry to much about that poster been negative about a great win, he seems to be that way quite often unless its his own team.
That victory todat was against a team ranked 10 places higher in the IRB rankins, to put that into context its the equivalent of Canada winning in South Africa or Italy winning in NZ. Well Done Scotland, back in the top 10 and rightly so.

Kia england were the best team in the world in 2003

give us something jeas, dont try and devalue it!

Alasdair Strockosch deserves a long ban for that head butt.

Totally unacceptable

Mate that was when you beat us in our own backyard. We couldn't even outscrum you with two players off in the bin. I'll more than give you that one. I was talking about your win at Twickers when I think we had Ben Blair as fullback. That one I'll also give you but not so happy about it.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Samoa last year and now Scotland. Australia have a habit of losing these games. Shows their depth is not as impressive as the other big two and shows if your test team starts with an S, you have a good chance. Spain should be getting their invitation to play a test first up next year!!

England was the last Home Nation team to beat NZ in the NH. That was an experimental side as well but it still gets written in the history books as a loss and rightly so. Plenty of experienced players on that day and plenty today who knew how to win. So rightfully celebrate this Scotland as a great win and one to be cherished by fans who have had their fair and unfair share of bad luck in recent times. All the very best for the rest of this tour and you should be proud of the boys.

It says a lot that Aus have lost to pretty much everyone at least once in the last 5 years, but cant beat NZ which the french aside of the 6Ns/Argies/PIslands havent done for nearly a decade.

I agree kia. That win was massive despite the rubbish weather and scheduling. Scotland have largely been the least discussed NH side during the 6N and for the summer tours and scot posters have generally had to fight for some real estate on these boards.

Now they hold the limelight. Theyve beaten the 3N champions and have set the standard for the remaining NH sides.

Its now NH 1 SH 0 all due to this fantastic effort. Oz and everyone else on these boards thought by weathering the first half into the gust at 6-3 they would go onto win this easily. And probably should have. But the scot tenacity kicked in and rose to the challenge.

Brilliant win in the circumstances and kudos for the summer tour currently sits with the scots. Deservedly so...

miss read your post

I have to say it was a fantastic defensive display - how long was Aus camped in the Scotland 22 in the second half

AlynDavies wrote:I'm not saying Scotland don't deserve credit for the win, but neither would I be overly optimistic beating an Australian team with a third of the team making their first ever starts and most of the others being down the pecking order.

It's not a question of jelousy either as a few posters mentioned, Wales have beaten Scotland 8 in the last 9 games. I just think Scotland need to do a lot more to prove they have turned any kind of a corner.

Have you seen how many caps the Scots team have? Missing a few folk as well Denton, Brown, would both have been assets. 5 debutants for Australia?

Well to be fair PSW they beat us in the 3N last year in Brisbane to win the tournament. Only 5 teams have ever beaten the ABs so it's not so surprising that they struggle against us. The golden era of Nobody seems behind them but tak a closer look at the stats and many of their losses have been within a 6 point margin.

I think results like this show that Australia don't like playing in the wet and don't have the strength in depth of SA and NZ.

TJ wrote:I have to say it was a fantastic defensive display - how long was Aus camped in the Scotland 22 in the second half

Only slightly longer than the Scotts were in theirs in the 1st. The difference was Aus kept coughing up penalties when they had a scoring chance whereas the Scotts kept on dropping the ball.
Not vintage from either side, although Scotlands tackling was excellent.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Well to be fair PSW they beat us in the 3N last year in Brisbane to win the tournament. Only 5 teams have ever beaten the ABs so it's not so surprising that they struggle against us. The golden era of Nobody seems behind them but tak a closer look at the stats and many of their losses have been within a 6 point margin.

I think results like this show that Australia don't like playing in the wet and don't have the strength in depth of SA and NZ.

Kia thats kind of the point I was making. Aus are clealry capable of putting together some very strong sides and are one of the few Unions NZ have something to fear from. But they also seriously lack depth (famously in the front row) and "dont like it up em". It may be cliched but we have seen it again today.
Aus are a brittle side, inconsistent and dont have a plan B for tough weather. Its no wonder Cipriani was so popular down there.

I see your point mate. Unfortunately Australia are not the only team to raise their game against us.

biltongbek wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:George I agree with you three points. But four not fair about "a referee who let the Wallabies seal off the ball all day without penalty" Australia concede 2x as many penalty on attack as defender. And scotland less penalty for defender rucks despise only 30% possession. Referee was not favour Australia.

AWOP, I am going to strongly disagree with you there, I made the comment a number of times on the match thread.

In fact a while ago I got the SA referees website which explained exactly when is it legal to run as a double barrel, in other words there is a hammer running behind the ball carrier, the hammer is not supposed to go off his feet when the ball carrier is tackled, otherwise it is seen as sealing off the ball.

We lost a test match against OZ in the last minute because of that, we did what they did today and got penalised and Beale kicked a 50 metre penalty.

Australia got penalise a lot for technical infringement on attack. I didn't see like that for a lot of years and I think is it execution wrong? or rusty? or under pressure from superb Scotland back row performancing? or did the referee just forget new interpretation? I think in all was fair but to complain Australia gettting green light from referee for bad breakdown is pure point without showing much merit.

The second half Australia did much better at the attacking ruck, their "bridging" was better executed, but watch the first half again, the last 25 minutes, you will be amazed.

The scrum was a huge improvement from the 6N. Murray was back on form but Ryan Grant also made an outstanding debut, lasting the whole 80, and contributing fully to the pressure that the Scors brought to bear in the final moments.
Dont forget Grant was released by Robinson, having made only 6 bench appearnces in two seasons, when he was head caoch at Edinburgh, he travelled along the M8 to the Warriors and by the start of the next season was competing with John Welsh for the starting slot at 1.
Can you imagine Alistair Dickinson lasting 80 minutes in this game? He was Robinson's choice as back up 1 for the WC and he was appalling every time he came off the bench.

So we can now add Grant to the growing list of young players that Robinson has tried to ignore and have now shown they can make to the successful step up to international rugby.
Maybe with each success AR will become more open to picking players on form and not simply on reputation, and the spectre of little Matthew Tait can drift from Robinson's nightmares once and for all.

George Carlin wrote:
4. I can honestly say that if any other home nation had beaten a SH giant under any circumstances (particuarly those like today where Scotland had to play both the conditions and a referee who let the Wallabies seal off the ball all day without penalty), then they would get nothing other than my unreserved praise. I think that some of the people on these boards should pause to take a quick look at themselves and ask why they can't seem to do the same.

Hear hear, well said George, you enjoy your win mate, its well deserved. Never listen to the naysayers, if Ireland pulled that win off I'd be be on cloud 9 man.

Anyone have highlights?

I have to admit that at half-time I switched over to some Curb Your Enthusiasm that I'd recorded.

I did see the end though and well done Scotland. A very good result in trying circumstances for both sides.

leinsterbaby wrote:Anyone have highlights?

Not sure you will be able to see this video of the highlight but let me know if it works.

Aus vs Scotland

Feic the begrudgers. Scotland went down to the SH and won the game. They deserve to savour the moment.

biltongbek wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:Anyone have highlights?

Not sure you will be able to see this video of the highlight but let me know if it works.

Aus vs Scotland

Thanks doesnt work but Ill use an ip blocker later and get it going.

sensisball wrote:The scrum was a huge improvement from the 6N. Murray was back on form but Ryan Grant also made an outstanding debut, lasting the whole 80, and contributing fully to the pressure that the Scors brought to bear in the final moments.
Dont forget Grant was released by Robinson, having made only 6 bench appearnces in two seasons, when he was head caoch at Edinburgh, he travelled along the M8 to the Warriors and by the start of the next season was competing with John Welsh for the starting slot at 1.
Can you imagine Alistair Dickinson lasting 80 minutes in this game? He was Robinson's choice as back up 1 for the WC and he was appalling every time he came off the bench.

So we can now add Grant to the growing list of young players that Robinson has tried to ignore and have now shown they can make to the successful step up to international rugby.
Maybe with each success AR will become more open to picking players on form and not simply on reputation, and the spectre of little Matthew Tait can drift from Robinson's nightmares once and for all.

Sensisbal
Give it a rest mate you are getting bl00dy boring

AR stated that Grant needed game time and at that period he wasn't going to gey it, but praised him highly when he went to Glasgow that was quite a few years ago. He also said that he had deserved his call up after he kept Welsh out of the side after he came back from international duty, also Lineen never picked him Welsh was Glasgow coach available........... so are you criticising him also

I am a massive advocate of picking on FORM......... but there are "horses for courses", and "experience" to consider as well. That was a side picked on form but quite inexperienced (and it showed on times when we spilled the ball on what FOUR occasions when we should have scored) and yet you still are having a go at the coach

I thought Scotland's defence was excellent and when they got the chance they rumbled up field exactly as scripted.

This talk of Aus A is a load of old @rse - you don't pick pocock in an experimtal team!

Well done Scotland you did it when Wales couldn't.

rodders wrote:

George Carlin wrote:
4. I can honestly say that if any other home nation had beaten a SH giant under any circumstances (particuarly those like today where Scotland had to play both the conditions and a referee who let the Wallabies seal off the ball all day without penalty), then they would get nothing other than my unreserved praise. I think that some of the people on these boards should pause to take a quick look at themselves and ask why they can't seem to do the same.

Hear hear, well said George, you enjoy your win mate, its well deserved. Never listen to the naysayers, if Ireland pulled that win off I'd be be on cloud 9 man.

George
Some of the poster are showing petty jealousy (lets see how their side performs!), but even worse there are some of our own posters on here who are gutted that we won, they would have rather us lost so they could have had another pop at the coach

slartibartfast wrote:I thought Scotland's defence was excellent and when they got the chance they rumbled up field exactly as scripted.

This talk of Aus A is a load of old @rse - you don't pick pocock in an experimtal team!

Well done Scotland you did it when Wales couldn't.

TOP MAN

Just watching the re run of the game on sky sports and have to say it is one of the most passionate performances by Scotland in a long time. It may not have been a game of free flowing rugby but the hard, gritty close games are those that players remember with the fondest memories for the effort that is put in.
Al Strokosch, Ross Rennie put in massive shifts today, Strokosch's work at the ruck and mauls was outstanding and Rennie didn't let Australia breath or settle.
Likewise the backs put in a massive effort in defence and shut down everything Australia threw at them especially Matt Scott, Nick De Luca and Tom Brown.
Anyone who says that was an Australian 2nd team are kidding themselves. Having watched a lot of the super 15 a lot of those guys are the form players in Australia apart from Berrick Barnes.
Great Win today by Scotland and I would say only the start with us to build into something potentially special with the amount of young talent coming through to supplement the good players we already have.

They said before the game they were splitting players between the two games. Neither side will be their strongest, neither as understrength as the SA side that came over here in 2009 or the "Wales" that played the Baabaas this weekend.
I dont think that anyones kidding themselves this means Scotland are suddenly the match of the SANzars, but results are results. Aus were unable to put out a side that could beat Scotland on their day. It proves the gulf isnt insurmountable and rightly will be a massive boost from the low point the Scotland team had reached. Even by their standards the results and performances have been poor since the Argie tour. Maybe they should consider joining the 4 nations.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
I dont think that anyones kidding themselves this means Scotland are suddenly the match of the SANzars, but results are results.

Dead right. And its just a game between two teams. Some factors may have appeared to assist Scotland but in the end conditions were the same for both and one adapted better than the other enough to go from underdog at rank 12 to win against a rank 2 or 3.

The win has a much merit as any other...

Indeed. They key now for Scotland is to back it up. Something we've been extremely poor at in the past. Fiji and Samoa at home will be a completely different test in completely different conditions. Both will be a chance for us to show what we can do with ball in hand.

Great win, but if we can follow up and beat Fiji, then we can start to talk about progress. Win against Samoa as well and Robinson will be due much credit. He took some much deserved criticism in the last 12 months, but if he can come away with 3 wins on the road then credit should go where credit is due.

You are all entitled to your own opinions i`m an Anglo -Scot with relations who immi grated to both.Australia and New Zealand after the Second World War.Ben Roff is also a distant[very] relative of mine.I am THE greatest AllBlacks fan you`ll ever find BUT I support my native teams too.In the RWC England and Argentina were BOTH worse than Scotland in there respective matches but Scotland lost both.England except the versus the weak teams in the Group were total Rubbish.THAT pains me speaking with my England hat on all the advances England had made Pre -RWC.Went down the tubes with MJ reverting to the old RWC formula.Stick it up your jumper and let Jonny kick the Goals.
England was`nt alone in that but god was it awful to watch even Australia played a negative game.

I thought before the game that Scotland had a small chance just because of the lack of time for Aus to prepare. Then when I saw the weather I gave them 40% chance. After the first 20 minutes I gave them 50% chance. Then family duties intervened and I didn't see the rest.

Good on ya Scotland, well done. This talk of Aus A etc is rubbish. Yes it wasn't thier strongest possible team but so what. You play 22 against 22 and take all the wins you can.

It's not like any Irish fans would not cherish a win against NZ just because Carter, McCaw and Woodcock are not quite 100% that Weepu is too fat that Kaino, Thorn, Kahui, Mealamu and Jane are not there and that A Smith, Saeva, Rettalick, Smith and Ellison have little to no experience.

There seems to be a lot of debate about the merits of the Scottish win. From my perspective, good on you Scotland. A win is a win, as another poster pointed out no one will remember the circumstances in 100 years time. A win away is to be cherished, especially in Australia. So congradulations Scotland and I hope the hangover is a good one.

The other perspective is what does the win ay about where Australia and Scotland. I think it's fair enough here to discuss the merits of the sides. From my perspective I wouldn't read to much into the game. This is the weakest Australian side I can remember. The only starters in the backline are Genia and Iaone. In the forward pack only Pocock, Moore and Alexander were regular starters last year (given Australias scrum last year, I'm not sure that's an endoresement for Alexander). Although there are a number of squad players starting. The Scottish team is also weak, but I don't feel to the same extent.

The Australians are also in a position of having no preperation for the test. I think we have to acknowledge this. I can't remember it happening to another established IRB nation. It's simply not enough time to prepare. They'll be up against it this weekend.

Again, none of this detracts from Scotlands win (go Scotland). However, I'd be careful in reading to much into the result. When the ARFU accepted the dates it was always going to be difficult. I'm expecting Scotland will go well in the Pacific.

Personally I thought there was a hint that Australia underestimated Scotland, especially in the area of defense for all full 80 minutes.

This makes it really hard for Dingo over the next few days to retrieve the situation, all he can do now is go to Brisbane and put it on the senior players in his squad that they have to redeem themselves against Wales,with the flaws in that team last night,I dont think they can.

I cant see the weather repeating itself in Brisbane though. and wales will relish the opportunity for their backs to run over the top of the ground.

I agree with the general sentiment (there always be a few detractors for whatever reason), Scotland did great and should celebrate this victory.

After the many one score losses trying to play exciting rgby, it may not have been the way they would have wanted to win, but it is an important win away from home.

Does anyone know who got man of the match?

emack2 wrote:You are all entitled to your own opinions i`m an Anglo -Scot with relations who immi grated to both.Australia and New Zealand after the Second World War.Ben Roff is also a distant[very] relative of mine.I am THE greatest AllBlacks fan you`ll ever find BUT I support my native teams too.In the RWC England and Argentina were BOTH worse than Scotland in there respective matches but Scotland lost both.England except the versus the weak teams in the Group were total Rubbish.THAT pains me speaking with my England hat on all the advances England had made Pre -RWC.Went down the tubes with MJ reverting to the old RWC formula.Stick it up your jumper and let Jonny kick the Goals.
England was`nt alone in that but god was it awful to watch even Australia played a negative game.

Alan, no one doubts your passion and knowledge of the AB players both in the modern era and the black and white era. But much like picking the greatest AB player, you're basing your words on subjective supposition. A friendly word of advice: in NZ we don't stomach too well the people who trumpet their own horns. We like our heroes to be humble. I know what you mean when you wrote what you did but let your vast knowledge speak for itself rather than you speaking for yourself.

And as an Anglo-Scot, you should take great pride in that performance. Much like the Irish victory against Australia in the RWC, the rugby world has not been shaken to its very core by this victory. But it's an important yardstick that Scotland can now use in future games to know what they are capable of and what they should be aiming for.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:A friendly word of advice: in NZ we don't stomach too well the people who trumpet their own horns. We like our heroes to be humble

Is that why TGG is pretending to be an Eastern European now?

GG didn't blow his own trumpet. He blew a trumpet but not his own and he blew it right in the ears of England supporters.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:GG didn't blow his own trumpet. He blew a trumpet but not his own and he blew it right in the ears of England supporters.

Personally, I would say it sounded more like a vuvuzela, but then I don't mind vuvuzela's

I bet you mind them right in your ear though mate. Not to mention other orifices.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I bet you mind them right in your ear though mate. Not to mention other orifices.

It'll be a tight fit though mate, I may be getting old, but me still very firm.