Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
+17
wales606
Comfort
LordDowlais
Feckless Rogue
kiakahaaotearoa
damage_13
profitius
geoff998rugby
Effervescing Elephant
CurlyOsp
aucklandlaurie
mystiroakey
whocares
doctor_grey
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
Biltong
Portnoy
21 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
Page 1 of 3
Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
I suspect that most posters here want to see Rugby growing globally (its a common argument on the lines of "if we want to see the game expand".
But as soon as anyone suggests a method of expanding the game, the nimbys turn up in their droves making wild accusations about imagined obsessions and bias against the 'other' sides and teams.
So. In what ways can Rugby Union can be encouraged and assisted expand to a global level without some teams and some nations having to take a hit? I'll leave it to you to provide suggestions and I look forward to being enlightened...
But as soon as anyone suggests a method of expanding the game, the nimbys turn up in their droves making wild accusations about imagined obsessions and bias against the 'other' sides and teams.
So. In what ways can Rugby Union can be encouraged and assisted expand to a global level without some teams and some nations having to take a hit? I'll leave it to you to provide suggestions and I look forward to being enlightened...
Last edited by Kiwireddevil on Wed 06 Jun 2012, 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed typo in title)
Portnoy- Posts : 4396
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 74
Location : Felixstowe, Tigers, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Firstly I am a plain old Afrikaans lad with a relatively good account of the english language, now I know I can google it, but please explain to me what nimbyism is.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
biltongbek wrote:Firstly I am a plain old Afrikaans lad with a relatively good account of the english language, now I know I can google it, but please explain to me what nimbyism is.
Nimby= "Not in my back yard" - a trait guaranteed to make you "popular" with developers and town planners everywhere
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
NIMBY
Not In My Back Yard
Euphamism for I support a concept as long as it doesn't impact me, (negatively).
Not In My Back Yard
Euphamism for I support a concept as long as it doesn't impact me, (negatively).
doctor_grey- Posts : 12351
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
thanks.
For a moment there I thought I need to find an English dictionary that is more complete.
For a moment there I thought I need to find an English dictionary that is more complete.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Expanding does not mean developping 2nd-3rd tier nations at the expense of 1st tier so called average ones.
Expand would mean target specific nations who have a good level of grassroot rugby, decent infrastrure a decent semi-pro eague and improve their exposure by playing more games against 1st tier nations.
Georgia could be at the level of Italy in less than 5 years time if they were playing against the home nations 4-5 time a year rather than against romania.
Expand would mean target specific nations who have a good level of grassroot rugby, decent infrastrure a decent semi-pro eague and improve their exposure by playing more games against 1st tier nations.
Georgia could be at the level of Italy in less than 5 years time if they were playing against the home nations 4-5 time a year rather than against romania.
whocares- Posts : 4270
Join date : 2011-04-14
Age : 47
Location : France - paris area
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
When people say grow the game, are there specific countries or regions they refer to?
Guest- Guest
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Well our back yard is quite busy to be honest.
The one positive thing I can say about SARU is their willingness to help other nations.
We also have our South African Legends who are continiously coaching or finding sponsors for other African nations to help them with equipment and such.
SARU has got a lot of invlovment with developing talent at school level during Craven week for Namibia and Zimbabwe and at senior level Argentina has Pampas and we also have Namibia participating in our Vodacom cup.
So our Backyard is pretty busy.
The one positive thing I can say about SARU is their willingness to help other nations.
We also have our South African Legends who are continiously coaching or finding sponsors for other African nations to help them with equipment and such.
SARU has got a lot of invlovment with developing talent at school level during Craven week for Namibia and Zimbabwe and at senior level Argentina has Pampas and we also have Namibia participating in our Vodacom cup.
So our Backyard is pretty busy.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
I guess that makes us IMBY
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
I forgot to mention we also send a lot of players to play in other backyards as well, even in their biggest stadiums in their national colours, so we are pretty much helping everyone.
So maybe that makes us. EBY
Everyone's back yard.
So maybe that makes us. EBY
Everyone's back yard.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
EBOP i think us in europe need to concentrate on growing in europe.
i think argentina neede to look at the south american countries around it
i think oz,nz etc need to really tap into the love there have within that region there and intergrate the islands,japan,china etc.
south africa need to help out africa.
etc etc
i think argentina neede to look at the south american countries around it
i think oz,nz etc need to really tap into the love there have within that region there and intergrate the islands,japan,china etc.
south africa need to help out africa.
etc etc
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
BTW Portnay- i agree with your stance completely- everyone seems happy discussing growing the again untill it affects them!!
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
Location : surrey
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
biltongbek wrote:I forgot to mention we also send a lot of players to play in other backyards as well, even in their biggest stadiums in their national colours, so we are pretty much helping everyone.
So maybe that makes us. EBY
Everyone's back yard.
So why so many institutionally constructed glass ceilings in the SH? biltong?
Portnoy- Posts : 4396
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 74
Location : Felixstowe, Tigers, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Economics Portnoy.
The reality is SANZAR can barely compete with the salaries in the north and hence run extremely tight budgets which makes it barely sustainable.
The rest of the SH simply doesn't have the infrastructure or ticket sales and broadcasting possibilities to make it viable, so you'll find like SA does, they help where they can, but SANZAR are playing a survival game
The reality is SANZAR can barely compete with the salaries in the north and hence run extremely tight budgets which makes it barely sustainable.
The rest of the SH simply doesn't have the infrastructure or ticket sales and broadcasting possibilities to make it viable, so you'll find like SA does, they help where they can, but SANZAR are playing a survival game
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
biltongbek wrote:Economics Portnoy.
The reality is SANZAR can barely compete with the salaries in the north and hence run extremely tight budgets which makes it barely sustainable.
The rest of the SH simply doesn't have the infrastructure or ticket sales and broadcasting possibilities to make it viable, so you'll find like SA does, they help where they can, but SANZAR are playing a survival game
Economics is the science of optimal resource management Biltong. Not accountancy. Which is the bean-counting you are referring to.
Portnoy- Posts : 4396
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 74
Location : Felixstowe, Tigers, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Well you can term it any way you want, the reality is SANZAR has those glass ceilings in place for that specific reason, none other.
Just look at the inclusion of argentina now, IRB had to assist financially otherwise it would have been impossible.
Just look at the inclusion of argentina now, IRB had to assist financially otherwise it would have been impossible.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Argentina would have been better of in the European time time zone area.
Or is Asia expected to fend for itself?
Or is Asia expected to fend for itself?
Portnoy- Posts : 4396
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 74
Location : Felixstowe, Tigers, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
I don't know why Japan isn't involved with SANZAR as they have an audience and infrastructure, perhaps they don't feel they can compete?
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Portnoy wrote:biltongbek wrote:Economics Portnoy.
The reality is SANZAR can barely compete with the salaries in the north and hence run extremely tight budgets which makes it barely sustainable.
The rest of the SH simply doesn't have the infrastructure or ticket sales and broadcasting possibilities to make it viable, so you'll find like SA does, they help where they can, but SANZAR are playing a survival game
Economics is the science of optimal resource management Biltong. Not accountancy. Which is the bean-counting you are referring to.
It's a bit of both in NZ's case Portnoy - the NZRU know it needs $100m (£50m) a year to run the domestic game - including the nurseries of amateur club and junior rugby, and it uses it's main cash cow, the ABs to earn that money. Unfortunately the populations of the PIs are (a) very small (Samoa and Tonga put together make up less the population of Leicester, and even if you count the diaspora living in NZ and Aus there are less than 500,000 Samoan/Tongan people all together) and (b) rather poor so sadly, and practically, there is little more that can be done to develop their game beyond what we already do, which is most of their player development.
Honestly, allowing more space in SuperXV teams for PI-tied players would be a good thing, as would playing the occasional game in the PIs (though that would be a money loser for both NZ and the PIs - and sanctions against the military government in Fiji currently rule out the ABs playing there), but that's about it - ultimately our back yard is already punching well above it's weight.
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
portnoy
You may not realise it but NZRFU does a lot to promote rugby in a variety of ways and places around the globe that you may not realise, and I'm not just talking about the old addage that wherever you go in the World, and theres rugby, then there will be a New zealander not far away.
You may not realise it but NZRFU does a lot to promote rugby in a variety of ways and places around the globe that you may not realise, and I'm not just talking about the old addage that wherever you go in the World, and theres rugby, then there will be a New zealander not far away.
aucklandlaurie- Posts : 7561
Join date : 2011-06-27
Age : 68
Location : Auckland
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Seems that that makes more sense for the PIs to be treated as a nation akin to the WIndies in cricket.
Portnoy- Posts : 4396
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 74
Location : Felixstowe, Tigers, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Portnoy wrote:Seems that that makes more sense for the PIs to be treated as a nation akin to the WIndies in cricket.
That would be great, except they don't like each other very much. Fiji and Tonga nearly went to war last year over a couple of disputed atolls.
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Just out of curiosity, what things to Wales do in their backyard?
Guest- Guest
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Dont understand, The pacific Island nations arent bundled up in one like the Windies???
aucklandlaurie- Posts : 7561
Join date : 2011-06-27
Age : 68
Location : Auckland
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Unlike the SANZAR unions then auk?
Portnoy- Posts : 4396
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 74
Location : Felixstowe, Tigers, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
biltongbek wrote:gardening.
Only when it's not raining though ay? Seriously though, we've had some good responses from knowledgable SH posters about some of the things we do to promote/support the game. I'm sure you do, I'm just not aware of them, whaddaya got NH?
Guest- Guest
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
No, The New Zealand,South Africa and Australia unions are free standing rugby entities. I dont understand?
aucklandlaurie- Posts : 7561
Join date : 2011-06-27
Age : 68
Location : Auckland
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
aucklandlaurie wrote: Dont understand, The pacific Island nations arent bundled up in one like the Windies???
Portnoy is suggesting they should be - there are 15 independent Caribbean nations that contribute players to the WI cricket team. Granted spread over a significantly smaller geographic area than Samoa, Fiji and Tonga, but still, the Guyana-Jamaica-Antigua triangle is around 250,000 square miles (give or take a lot, i'm guestimating off Google maps)
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Kiwireddevil wrote:aucklandlaurie wrote: Dont understand, The pacific Island nations arent bundled up in one like the Windies???
Portnoy is suggesting they should be - there are 15 independent Caribbean nations that contribute players to the WI cricket team. Granted spread over a significantly smaller geographic area than Samoa, Fiji and Tonga, but still, the Guyana-Jamaica-Antigua triangle is around 250,000 square miles (give or take a lot, i'm guestimating off Google maps)
Even they struggle to sort their politics and selection out on occassions.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Just joshin' auk. Pay no heed. What I'm saying that (not knowing the politics of that part of the world, that a PIs national side could be assembled on a regular basis as has been done on occasion in the past?).
The Laws of the game might have to be redrawn on the lines of the final score or last man standing.
The Laws of the game might have to be redrawn on the lines of the final score or last man standing.
Portnoy- Posts : 4396
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 74
Location : Felixstowe, Tigers, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
It'd be like Wales merging with England. Merging the islands into one would be unpalatable for them. I know they've tried it, but that hasn't taken hold and probably for that reason. They're their own countries and proud of it.
Guest- Guest
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Then Portnoy's never seen a Samoa Versus Tonga brawl.
aucklandlaurie- Posts : 7561
Join date : 2011-06-27
Age : 68
Location : Auckland
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
EBOP wrote:biltongbek wrote:gardening.
Only when it's not raining though ay? Seriously though, we've had some good responses from knowledgable SH posters about some of the things we do to promote/support the game. I'm sure you do, I'm just not aware of them, whaddaya got NH?
To be very honest, I think they do a lot less than us.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
aucklandlaurie wrote: Then Portnoy's never seen a Samoa Versus Tonga brawl.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Portnoy wrote:Just joshin' auk. Pay no heed. What I'm saying that (not knowing the politics of that part of the world, that a PIs national side could be assembled on a regular basis as has been done on occasion in the past?).
The Laws of the game might have to be redrawn on the lines of the final score or last man standing.
The IRB possibly could pave the way for a reform of the Pacific Islanders, I've dug out an excerpt from the Samoan RU's reasons for pulling out of the Pacific Islands Rugby Alliance ("interesting" string of letters there).
-SRU Chairman, Peter SchusterThe original concept was basically to provide an opportunity (to play) every two years. There were two aims, to get revenue to help in the running of the activities of the unions (and) to provide players with the opportunity to play against tier one sides.
But the International Rugby Board (IRB) changed the schedule for the Pacific Islands team to play every four years. Every four years won't generate the revenue needed to run our rugby.
If a Lions-style tour in the NH happened every 4 years, and a 4 yearly SH one on the alternate (running in even-numbered years to miss the RWC/Lions years) I think it could work.
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
I would love to see that. It will at last show us what happens when you put our forward play together with the elctric play of the antipodean nations, imagine Meyer sees that, it could show him the way forward.Kiwireddevil wrote:If a Lions-style tour in the NH happened every 4 years, and a 4 yearly SH one on the alternate (running in even-numbered years to miss the RWC/Lions years) I think it could work.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
I'm not surprised tha NH posters are absent in their droves.
In the rugby world up here, you can't walk down the road without tripping over a sacred cow.
In the rugby world up here, you can't walk down the road without tripping over a sacred cow.
Portnoy- Posts : 4396
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 74
Location : Felixstowe, Tigers, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Well then therein lies the biggest obstacle.Portnoy wrote:I'm not surprised tha NH posters are absent in their droves.
In the rugby world up here, you can't walk down the road without tripping over a sacred cow.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Reminds me of that remit that New Zealand took to the IRB last year to allow Tier i players to also play for their Islands of heritage, It was soundly defeated when the Celtic nations vetoed it with a block vote, Now why would they do that I wonder?
aucklandlaurie- Posts : 7561
Join date : 2011-06-27
Age : 68
Location : Auckland
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
I am sure it has nothing to do with the fact that these PI players are, big, fast, athletic, well conditioned and well coached, apart from their natural talent of course.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
biltongbek wrote:I am sure it has nothing to do with the fact that these PI players are, big, fast, athletic, well conditioned and well coached, apart from their natural talent of course.
And getting a bit too close for comfort on the IRB rankings.
aucklandlaurie- Posts : 7561
Join date : 2011-06-27
Age : 68
Location : Auckland
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
biltongbek wrote:Well then therein lies the biggest obstacle.Portnoy wrote:I'm not surprised tha NH posters are absent in their droves.
In the rugby world up here, you can't walk down the road without tripping over a sacred cow.
Quite.
https://www.606v2.com/t30338-as-i-am-a-proponent-of-ditching-scotland-and-italy-from-the-6ns-am-i-feicked-again
https://www.606v2.com/t30205-sorting-out-the-european-club-competitions-conundrum-my-way
https://www.606v2.com/t29522-a-phoenix-italian-side-must-be-rewarded-with-an-hec-place-after-8-games
https://www.606v2.com/t29395-japan-a-northern-or-southern-hemisphere-country
Nobody wants to rock the boat as it would cause panic.
Portnoy- Posts : 4396
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 74
Location : Felixstowe, Tigers, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Well done the celts, that's growing the global gameaucklandlaurie wrote: Reminds me of that remit that New Zealand took to the IRB last year to allow Tier i players to also play for their Islands of heritage, It was soundly defeated when the Celtic nations vetoed it with a block vote, Now why would they do that I wonder?
Guest- Guest
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Yeah, Portnoy I read those threads, but it got to me after a while, so I gave up on understanding their stance regarding it.
It seems tradition is so strong there, nothing will make a differing impact or will be allowed to be considered
It seems tradition is so strong there, nothing will make a differing impact or will be allowed to be considered
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
In Wales we're still very much in the middle of getting our own house in order. In the Southern Hem, you're sitting comfortably at the top of the heirarchy, reaching that level is our main priority in the Northern Hem so we can't afford to influence others as much.
For example; there's been a lot of focus on promoting the game in North Wales recently, as it's predominently played in the South. A huge amount of time and money went into the setting up of RGC 1404, a Northern region (including the signing of 9 Canadian players) who are now currently playing in the Welsh Premiership. Their home ground, Colwyn Bay, has hosted Wales u20's games, which has done wonders for promoting the sport and the benefits to local facilties and player development are really starting to show.
So if this scheme is succesfull and our already established regional acadamies continue going strong then we may soon be in a position to have greater global influence, until then, you're in the drivers seat
For example; there's been a lot of focus on promoting the game in North Wales recently, as it's predominently played in the South. A huge amount of time and money went into the setting up of RGC 1404, a Northern region (including the signing of 9 Canadian players) who are now currently playing in the Welsh Premiership. Their home ground, Colwyn Bay, has hosted Wales u20's games, which has done wonders for promoting the sport and the benefits to local facilties and player development are really starting to show.
So if this scheme is succesfull and our already established regional acadamies continue going strong then we may soon be in a position to have greater global influence, until then, you're in the drivers seat
CurlyOsp- Posts : 327
Join date : 2011-07-13
Location : Wales
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
EBOP, when you say 'Celts' to whom do you refer? Are you lumping Scotland, Wales and Ireland together? Not sure what your beef is here.
Effervescing Elephant- Posts : 1629
Join date : 2011-03-25
Age : 48
Location : Exeter/Bristol/Brittany
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
If a 4th region is potentially in place Curly, would it stay in the 1st division?
Portnoy- Posts : 4396
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 74
Location : Felixstowe, Tigers, England
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
Carpe Diem wrote:EBOP, when you say 'Celts' to whom do you refer? Are you lumping Scotland, Wales and Ireland together? Not sure what your beef is here.
Yes, Ireland Wales and Scotland all together.
aucklandlaurie- Posts : 7561
Join date : 2011-06-27
Age : 68
Location : Auckland
Re: Rugby as a World sport - and nimbyism
aucklandlaurie wrote: Reminds me of that remit that New Zealand took to the IRB last year to allow Tier i players to also play for their Islands of heritage, It was soundly defeated when the Celtic nations vetoed it with a block vote, Now why would they do that I wonder?
Please explain what this entailed and we can debate logically.
It is not clear to me from the above
geoff998rugby- Posts : 5249
Join date : 2011-06-09
Age : 70
Location : Belfast/Ardglass
Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Similar topics
» Rugby as a World sport? You've got to be joking...
» Judging criteria announced by World Rugby to host 2023 Rugby World Cup
» Rugby World Cup 2019: 'Officiating not good enough' - World Rugby
» Rugby World Magazine 100 best rugby players in the world right now...!
» Transgender - world Rugby set to introduce 'rugby-specific' policy - Part 2
» Judging criteria announced by World Rugby to host 2023 Rugby World Cup
» Rugby World Cup 2019: 'Officiating not good enough' - World Rugby
» Rugby World Magazine 100 best rugby players in the world right now...!
» Transgender - world Rugby set to introduce 'rugby-specific' policy - Part 2
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
Page 1 of 3
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum