Ireland V All Blacks - Teams Announced and Matchday Thread

[clivemcl]

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND TEAM

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Ronan Loughney (Galwegians/Connacht) *
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)


NZ Team

15 Israel Dagg,
14 Zac Guildford,
13 Conrad Smith,
12 Sonny Bill Williams,
11 Julian Savea,
10 Dan Carter,
9 Aaron Smith,
8 Kieran Read,
7 Richie McCaw (capt),
6 Victor Vito,
5 Sam Whitelock,
4 Brodie Retallick,
3 Owen Franks,
2 Andrew Hore,
1 Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Ali Williams, Adam Thomson, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith.

Tour Previews:
http://www.v2journal.com/irelands-summer-tour.html
http://www.v2journal.com/new-zealands-june-tests-preview.html

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I think Rodders has just come up on something there actually now that he says it. This could take me some time to explain as it's a bit confusing.....

Duffy has to be 22. That much is fact. If Kearney gets injured he comes on as cover.

HOWEVER if a wing gets injured Duffy can't cover the wing. So that leaves us with 2 scenarios.....

Either a centre or 15 needs to move to wing. So that would have Kearney move to wing and Duffy to 15 which weakens us hugely, like MASSIVELY!

The other option requires a centre to go out to wing. This obviously won't be BOD but it can't be Cave either. Does this mean that McFadden "must" start? Gavin Duffy can play centre a lot better than wing.

This is not good at all

[Notch]

Okay, i disagree. Given I agree with you on literally everything else, would you say haranguing or ranting at me is a slight overreaction?!

I mean ffs- I'm actually criticising Kidney for bring out Duffy! It's the Judean Peoples Front taking on the Peoples Front of Judea here man!

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Rodders-

I don't think it's fair to say Gilroy could do as well as Kearney Jr at 15

[rodders]

Thank you for reading my posts Pete.

[rodders]

Rodders-

I don't think it's fair to say Gilroy could do as well as Kearney Jr at 15

I don't think its fair to say that he can't when neither of them have.... in fact none of them have at this level, which is the point I am trying to make.

For me Gilroy or Kearney yes. Gavin Duffy no.

Why? because of the 3 Gavin Duffy has been tried at this level andclearly isn't up to it.

The other 2 might be.

[aucklandlaurie]

Uh oh......

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0610/1224317651437.html

I hope the rugby journos at the Irish Times know more about the Irish players then they do of the All Blacks, Thats a funny photo of Kieren Reid.

[Notch]

For me, after 9 and 10 you have cover for fullback first and foremost on the bench. Most important backs position outside the halfbacks. You have cover for 15, then you worry about the centres and wings. Cover for 15 is essential.

I would have Zebo, Gilroy and Kearney Snr. with Kearney Jnr. at 22 covering the back three. What is so conservative and stifling about that?

In fact I want Kearney Jnr. on the bench regardless knowing he can cover wing as well as fullback. I have no idea why people are haranguing me over Duffy because I think he's a better fullback than Gilroy. I still wouldn;t f•cking call him up or put him on the bench.

[rodders]

Notch I apologise if you feel I am haranguing or ranting at you..... actually I probably was

I just feel Gilroy has earned his call up and have the confidence that he can do a job which ever position he has play.

We all agree Kearney would have been a good option too and that Duffy isn't so we really are just splitting hairs here.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Notch I apologise if you feel I am haranguing or ranting at you..... actually I probably was

I just feel Gilroy has earned his call up and have the confidence that he can do a job which ever position he has play.

We all agree Kearney would have been a good option too and that Duffy isn't so we really are just splitting hairs here.

Still can't believe Duffy has been called up, holy christ!?!?!?!

[Notch]

Yeah, we really, really are. I wish Gilroy was there. But he's not, and its because we've feiced up the backline selection big time. And now we only have one player who can play 15 in the entire squad of 30 and still don't have more than two fit wingers

Nice one Kidney

Here have a nice Wait, hold on, scratch that... you don't need the caffeine!

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Uh oh......

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0610/1224317651437.html

I hope the rugby journos at the Irish Times know more about the Irish players then they do of the All Blacks, Thats a funny photo of Kieren Reid.

Yeah Reid looks like he put on a few pounds there eh!? Yeah bit silly looking.

[rodders]

Here have a nice Wait, hold on, scratch that... you don't need the caffeine!

....yeah maybe a cammomile tea would be better..... feic it where's my double espresso.....

It's been a long and emotional season man...my nerves are shot, I could really do with a rest and a good preseason to recover .

[Notch]

Yeah these tests just feel like punishment. Watching tired players who should be on holiday playing tired rugby for tired fans. We're in oversaturation mode in terms of rugby now. It's a big issue for player welfare waiting to happen.

[Mcgavin Sean]

Kidneys record since 2008

Matches played 44

Won 25

Lost 17

Drew 2

59.1%

[The Great Aukster]

Dave Kearney is (at best) third choice 15 at Leinster. Throwing him into an All Black Test unproven doesn't sound like a great plan either for him or Ireland. Wilkinson, Loughney, Tuohy, Ryan, POM, Murray, Zebo, Cave are all green enough for Kidney to want some experience in the dressing room and Duffy can provide that at least especially for the Connacht props.

[rodders]

Kidneys record since 2008

Matches played 44

Won 25

Lost 17

Drew 2

59.1%

When you consider we were unbeaten in all 12(?) tests in 2009 that really shows how bad we've been from 2010 onwards.

Bring back the 90's man.... bring back the 90's .

[LeinsterFan4life]

Notch for what its worth i completely agree with you

[aucklandlaurie]

Looks like Victor Vito is out for next wekend (medial ligament) Kieren Reid is also doubtful.

[rodders]

Notch

...ooohhh getting nervous laurie mate???? ......

[aucklandlaurie]

Rodders, always nervous.

Actually the AB back three were a bit slow last weekend, this may be the chance to rectify this. McCaw to No.8. Thompson at 6, and lets have a look at the new boy Sam Cane at No.7.

[rodders]

Good man Laurie bring your A game pal...we just getting warmed up... ......

[aucklandlaurie]

yea, gotta keep all the powder dry, theres two more weeks left of this campaign.

[sean.c]

That last match was just luring you into a false sense of security so as to ambush you next week. You'll be having nightmares come Saturday night!

[blackcanelion]

I wonder if Messam will get the call up at 6.

[rodders]

Our powder is dry anyways....we barely managed to fire a shot.....

[aucklandlaurie]

I wonder if Messam will get the call up at 6.

yes there is merit in looking at Messam, however it depends on whether Hansen sees this as a no.6 or a no. 7 issue.
Messam IMO brings the same toolbox to the job that Vito does.

[Gibson]

If the Keewees had any cajones at all, they would put out their complete 2nd string next week.

But. They dont.

Ye would still win. But at least it would be competitive.

[aucklandlaurie]

Gibbo
Thing is weve not only got cajones, but weve got brains as well.

Yesterday all the second stringers played in the North versus South Island game, South won. now well have to hear about that for the next year.

[Gibson]

Fair enuf bud.

[rodders]

No! put the best NZ have out and throw everything at us, everyfeicin thing....

...no more self delusion, positive spin and smoke and mirrors from the IRFU.....

lets put all the cards on the table...shoite or bust, twice more into the breach..... to improve you have to know were you are..... no pain no gain....find the wheat from the chaff.

Time to stand up and fight lads, what little credibility is left in Irish rugby is on the line .

From the dirt grows the flowers.

[Notch]

I wonder how the IRFU will view the coaching situation if the remaining two tests are 30-50 point defeats. If Ireland are humiliatingly inept and rigorously dismantled again.

Only half-chance the Kidney regime can turn things around then is totally new coaching staff working under Deccie as head coach. I can't see them giving Kidney the additional coaching support he needs with only a year left on his contract. And I can't see anyone want to come and work for a dead man walking on a short-term basis. So they won't back him in the way he needs. But he has a full year left on his contract with no get out clauses we know of. They are tightening their belts and having to pay Kidneys contract off will cut into their budget for the next coach. So they won't sack him- that means he'll see out his contract which finishes next summer.

It's like Eddie O'Sullivan all over again. He was a dead man walking after the RWC and everyone knew it including him and, crucially, the players. But he still staggered through the Six Nations. Except this time, Kidney will be shambling through autumn internationals as well as the Six Nations. We have another nine test matches between now and the end of his contract.

New Zealand (A)
New Zealand (A)
South Africa (H)
Argentina (H)
Wales (A)
England (H)
Scotland (A)
France (H)
Italy (A)

That run could get ugly for us if things go very pear shaped with the coaching staff... the players must be close to losing faith in their coaches now surely? I think we'll pick up three or four wins, we'd be favourites against the likes of Argentina and Italy, but there's no 'banker' Ireland win. I don't think we'll lose every game but every single team in that run can harbour realistic ambitions of turning us over.

[Gibson]

Its ok Notch. Better that than prolonging the agony.

If he loves Ireland. If he loves Irish Rugby. And I would say he does to both questions, he would sacrifce his win/loss ratio, on the Altar of blooding new players, to the betterment of our future and not his record . No matter what the results.

Does he have the guts to end BOD's international career in the next AI's and 6-N? Maybe too late for that now. But Id back and respect him if he did.

It would set a precedent for the next era.

[nganboy]

No! put the best NZ have out and throw everything at us, everyfeicin thing....

Sorry Rodders no can do

Jane, Kahui, Kaino and Mealamu are injured so you'll have to make do.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

As your resident Spanish expert I feel I must point out cajones means drawers and cojones means balls.

Don't think moving McCaw to 8 would help our speed Laurie. Moving him to 6 would maybe. Vito had a knee complaint so there may well be changes.

[Gibson]

Well Kiaka,
Do ye have the drawers to put out yer 2nd-string side next week? Huh?

Most of our 2nd-string will be playing next week anyway. In fact, a lot of our 1st string are fast becoming 2nd-string.

[Biltong]

Gentlemen, we are nearing the 1000 post mark, if you have anything to contribute make sure it is valuable, workable and intelligent conversation, soon this trhead will come to an end.

[Gibson]

Arse-biscuits!

[Biltong]

That two opportunities wasted.

[Gibson]

Does rugby really matter?
Are there not more important things in Life to discuss?
How did we get here?
Why are we here?
Is there a reason for all of this?
And if so - why?
I want me muny back.
Take me to your Leader/Manager/Moderator.
I need answers.
No, I need proper questions.

Feic it, I'll have a pint instead. Sorted.

[Biltong]

Does rugby really matter? What? How could you even contemplate asking that?
Are there not more important things in Life to dicsuss? Yeah, but only somtimes.
How did we get here? The simple answer is cosmic dust, and single cell organisms.
Why are we here? to teach our children the values of rugby, Geez, that's the most obvious one.
Is there a reason for all of this?Only if you want it to be.
And if so - why? Simple, passion.
I want me muny back. did you pay to get here?
Take me to your Leader/Manager/Moderator. Here I am.

[Gibson]

Hail to the Moderator! He's got all the answers.

I feel free now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fLn9Z1G_LE

Tanks Biltong.

P.S. What do you mean Cosmic Dust? You mean Santa doesnt exist?

That's madness! Sheer madness.

It all falls apart on that one.

[Biltong]

Santa came after the cosmic dust, Geez man, do I need to tell you eveything?

I now worry for the children.

[Rava]

Notch I am chilled.

I just happen to believe that Craig Gilroy is just as capable of coming of the bench to play fullback at this level as Gavin Duffy or Dave Kearney.

I really can't believe you said that Rodders.

[rodders]

Notch I am chilled.

I just happen to believe that Craig Gilroy is just as capable of coming of the bench to play fullback at this level as Gavin Duffy or Dave Kearney.

I really can't believe you said that Rodders.

I really can't believe that you can't believe that I said that......

[Biltong]

Notch I am chilled.

I just happen to believe that Craig Gilroy is just as capable of coming of the bench to play fullback at this level as Gavin Duffy or Dave Kearney.

I really can't believe you said that Rodders.

I really can't believe that you can't believe that I said that......

I can't beleive, that you can't beleive, that he can't believe, that you can't believe that he said it....

I can't beleive I am confused.

[rodders]

OK lads seriously, yous are losing the run of yourselves...letting the heads drop... this is not mission impossible to turn this around, yes it was a bad loss BUT...

At least 4 of the tries were preventable...directly caused by our mistakes and /or poor defending.

Saveas 1st try was directly from a poor kick from Murray (?) straight to Dagg... whatever about who was to blame after for the poor defending....

Saveas 3rd try the cover defence was there, just a miscommunication between Zebo and Kearney let Savea go in.

BOD throwing the loose pass in the ABs 22 after Murray spins the ball from the maul.... feic we should have taken the 3 from the penalty.

All the tries from Savea were aided by poor defending from McFadden, Kearney, Earls, Zebo.

Reid brushing O'Mahoney off at the 5 metre scrum and getting the pass away.

Murray conceding the free kicks for delaying the scrum feed.

All these things can be improved upon, all things within our control.

The key areas - the scrum (until Loughney came on), lineout, the breakdown all went very well.... in fact we arguably shaded the latter.

It was unforced handling errors, loose kicking that cost us and allowed the AB's too much counterattacking ball that killed us.... and then some soft defending out wide which made life easier for the ABs than it should have been at this level.

The ABs were awesome, should have won by more and their clinicalness, skill levels and quality are breathtaking but it is well within our ability and control to make these next two tests much more difficult for them.

Believe

[Pete330v2]

You forgot to add Rodders that our try was down to the rugby gods and bounce of the ball etc

We played some very good rugby but failed to finish anything off and eventually we were unable to make ground with ball in hand. Kicking the ball at all should be made illegal in the Irish camp when playing NZ. You simply must not give them any posession if you can help it at all.

There still is something to play for and our faltering coaching crew surely will have learned a few valid lessons. Perhaps we shouldn't be trying to mindlessly spin the ball wide when there are only blind alleys to run down. Keeping things a little tighter and waiting for the opportunities might be a better option. Playing Sexton with Reddan is vital, Murray is a good option but doesn't compliment Sexton's game the way Reddan does. McFadden is not a winger and a below par Trimble is still a more 'on form' winger than McFadden. Above all, the players will perform better so lets go for it on saturday.

Believe!!!!!

[Mickado]

Thought the set peices were good (tip of the cap to Dekkie Fitz) and the breakdown work was pretty good at times. Our handling was decent but our passing wasn't accurate enough.

O'Mahoney was pretty anonymous all game, very soft shoulder for the Thompson try. O'Driscoll was poor, Earls had some nice moments and looked dangerous but we've seen the last of him on this tour.

Cannot understand for the life of me why ROG came on. Did Sexton and Reddan play at all together? If they did it was only for a couple of mins.

[Standulstermen]

THey didn't Mick. Sexton was off when reddan came on.

[Gibson]

Irish International rugby = phhoked.
Irish International soccer = more phhoked.
Irish International rugby & soccer fans = disilusioned, but great craic all the same.

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