Ireland V All Blacks - Teams Announced and Matchday Thread

[clivemcl]

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND TEAM

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Ronan Loughney (Galwegians/Connacht) *
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)


NZ Team

15 Israel Dagg,
14 Zac Guildford,
13 Conrad Smith,
12 Sonny Bill Williams,
11 Julian Savea,
10 Dan Carter,
9 Aaron Smith,
8 Kieran Read,
7 Richie McCaw (capt),
6 Victor Vito,
5 Sam Whitelock,
4 Brodie Retallick,
3 Owen Franks,
2 Andrew Hore,
1 Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Ali Williams, Adam Thomson, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith.

Tour Previews:
http://www.v2journal.com/irelands-summer-tour.html
http://www.v2journal.com/new-zealands-june-tests-preview.html

[mystiroakey]

Notch what the heck are you talking about.. Your acting like an over protective parent whos kid is acting up

[Notch]

In that case, I'm going to have to ask you to play a bit nicer with the other children.

[Biltong]

Come now boys, play nice please, I left my red pen in the office and will be real upset if I have to go fetch it.

[LeinsterFan4life]

What are you angree about mystir?

[rodders]

Lets just start to look forward to the autumn internationals and just forget about this tour

No way we can still the series.

BELIEVE

[mystiroakey]

What are you angree about mystir?

nothing

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Haha this is gas. Cheers Da. Mystiroakey I replied to you already so if you find exception with that reply apologies.

So who do people think Kidney will go for at 12/13???

Darcy? Cave? McFadden?

I don't even know who I would go for at that lot

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Just read that Duffy is on his way out to cover for earls.

Not David Kearey. Not Craig Gilroy. Not Nevin Spence.

Gavin Duffy! Played well this season but he will not start and has nothing to learn from another tackle bag holding session in his career
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/26670.php

[Notch]

I thought Cave looked a bit overawed by the occassion when he came on in Auckland unfortunately. But if he can get his head right when he knows he's starting all week he's the right choice. Thats a massive if- an if upon which his whole future international career may hinge upon. If not him, McFadden.

Knowing we're probably feiced anyway I'm going to throw caution to the wind and say Cave. He might flop, but feic. Let's give it a go with the younger lads. Keep Conor Murray, keep Simon Zebo, bring in Darren Cave.

[Notch]

Just read that Duffy is on his way out to cover for earls.

Not David Kearey. Not Craig Gilroy. Not Nevin Spence.

Gavin Duffy! Played well this season but he will not start and has nothing to learn from another tackle bag holding session in his career
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/26670.php

It had to be a fullback didn't it though- given the composition of the squad. Would have preferred David Kearney.

[Standulstermen]

Kearney Jr and Gilroy have played fullback previously. What do we learn from flying gavin Duffy out?


Absolutely nothing.

[rodders]

He can't just decide to go for the ball carrier though. Thats poor discipline. I'm not suggesting McFadden is blameless but you can't have defenders switching positions in the defensive line without compromising it's integrity. It's schoolboy stuff. I can guarantee that's what will be said in the video analysis.

Stand I'm not saying that McFadden was the only player at fault but he should have done better for all the tries down his channel. The winger needs to stay with the outside man and trust his inside defenders, thats very basic wing play...if there is an overlap and he comes in he has to do better... would Bowe or Trimble have stopped those tries? Possibly not but I would expect them to do better...both have much better judgement, Trims is good at coming in and taking man and ball and Bowe at going for the intercept....

For whatever reason Earls was defending on the wing in for the first try...which in itself isn't an issue, he clealy has the outside man covered but McFadden instead of taking the inside man, buys a dummy and takes the same man Earls is on.

You could see throughout the game that McFadden was drifting in and leaving his opposite number in loads of space. That simply is not good enough at this level.

When the coaches do the video analysis I am sure that McFadden will be identified as being majorly but not exclusively at fault and will not be starting the next test.

[rodders]

Just read that Duffy is on his way out to cover for earls.

Jesus wept are you having a laugh?!

What the flip do Gilroy, Madigan and Kearney jr have to do get a call up???

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Now that decision is typical DK. Really disappointing. It's not as if Duffy is an unreal 15. Kearney Jr or Gilroy would have benefited from this tour hugely!

Notch I wouldn't disagree with you with Cave but for two points:

1) We would then surely have one of the slowest midfields in world rugby
2) Cave (from the very limited highlights we had) looked poor and was poor when he came on on Saturday.

In terms of the pace needed I'd probably start McFadden at 12 and put Trimble in at 14.

Afraid not rodders I wish I was. It's brainless I know.

Think we are just going to have to agree to disagree Rodders, I was always taught to defend the inside out and to play zonal rather than man defence for switches

[Notch]

Now, I'm not going agree we should fly out Madigan or Gilroy to cover fullback.

I'm all for giving these guys chances. But not playing them out of position in their test debut against the All Blacks. Thats just bloodsport. Without Earls, only Kearney has experience at 15 in the squad. With Jones injured it was a straight shoot-out between Duffy and the other Kearney.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Has Gilroy not played 15 at some point Notch?

[rodders]

Fair enough Pete old chum

In fairness to Duffy lads he's had a very good season at Connacht..but its a terrible call to bring him ahead of the 3 lads mentioned.... personally I think Gilroy should have gone, not a provincial thing but he was very unlucky not to go anyway.

[The Great Aukster]

If Felix Jones had been fit he undoubtedly would have gone.

Zebo has been shown to be out of his depth so there is probably little or no point in sending Gilroy or Kearney minor to find out they're not ready either. Madigan might have been in with a shout given his experience at Fullback and potential to cover 10 and 12, but Kidney is probably looking at damage limitation now and will try to get as much experience on the pitch as he can - hence Duffy.

[rodders]

Gilroy was fullback for Ireland U-20s...sure Earls isn't a fullback either.

[Standulstermen]

Rodders

Earls wasn't defending the wing on the first try. He ran from the centre of the pitch following smith out. Inside to out. McFadden stayed on the wing which was where smith was headed, the touchline. When smith started approaching the touchline and McFadden, earls should have eased his pace and maintained the inside position. It isn't man marking, it is marking your space. Earls came into McFaddens zone and left his own empty.

Watching it was like watching a car crash in slo-mo and I genuinely can't believe that a guy that has played a season at centre makes at mistake.

Have to confess between Gilroy, Kearney Jr and Duffy only one of these 3 definitely doesn't have a future with Ireland at 15 and he is on his way to NZ

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Ausker-

Personally speaking I'd believe Gilroy and Kearney Jr would be less out of their depth than Zebo as their basics are far superior

Quinlan even said Earls made a howler out of that one

[Notch]

Gilroy was fullback for Ireland U-20s...sure Earls isn't a fullback either.

No he's a jack of all and master of none, but Earls has played fullback at test level. Gilroy has never played the position at senior level, just U20s. I'm not a massive fan of Earls at 15 but I'd say he's the second best option there. I've seen him shine there for province and country.

Would you really be happy if Gilroy was asked to debut at fullback? All it would do is cause him to under perform and hurt the team. He's not got the experience of playing fullback to slot in and excel, he's a winger. How can you attack the selection of McFadden and want Gilroy in to play 15? Do you think Gilroy would be any more confident in his positional sense than McFadden on the wing if he was asked to play a new position up against the All Blacks? It would be a stupid, stupid call.

If he was asked to play on the wing, I'm in favour. I'd be all for flying him over to play on the wing. I would absolutely start him on the wing. But we don't need another winger joining the squad. We need a 15.

[Taylorman]

Yes its a bit surreal now the abs are now world champs as well as no 1.carrying on basically where they left off. No more choke jibes, no more doubt just the same old winning again and worse...everyone in agreement about our form. A bit disrespectful i know but i miss the debates...the ones going on with the oz wales, english SA tours where everyones itchhing to gain brownie points from the win or loss regardless of which side they are on.

Hopefully all teams improve from these tours so it makes for an interesting 4N and AI's. Us kiwis are left nit picking with the small areas we can improve, make further gains etc but given the start to the season I just think we will get stronger and stronger as the year progresses. With no obvious weak areas comparatively it means we can focus on more industrious ways to get over the line...the selection of aaron smith and his pass probably the single biggest improvement to our team in a couple of years. If we were running wide previously on limited ball who knows what can happen now but the width against ireland was huge and oppositions really need to take note of it.
Anyway. Gloating over..will continue to watch the remaining tests with interest. SA and oz have done well given their unique situations.

[rodders]

I'm not defending Earls but my opinion is that one of the primary culprits for three of the tries was McFadden...I'm not disputing there were others at fault.

Earls in fairness did some superb defending like the cover tackle on Reid so he's in credit for me.

Anyways sure if Murray hadn't of kicked so poorly then there would be no problem.....

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

HOLY CHRIST!?!?!?!?!

The penny has just dropped...........

Gavin Duffy is going to be in the 22 as we have no one else who can cover 15. If Kearney gets injured we need to have someone on the bench who can slot in.

Sexton? Would hope not.
McFadden or BOD? No chance.
Zebo? Christ can you imagine!
Trimble or Murray? No hope.

Gentlemen it is with some sadness, a good deal of disappointment and a lot of worry that I must inform you that Gavin Duffy will wear 22 this Saturday

[rodders]

Notch I'd rather see Gilroy or Kearney jr start than Duffy, yes.....but thats just me.

I don't think, as well as he's played for Connacht, that Duffy offers much at this level but Gilroy and Kearney just might....if they have shocker then they will learn, whereas Duffy at 30 is as good as he is going to get.

[rodders]

Yup Duffy will be on the field on Saturday lads.

[Standulstermen]

If we are in a position whereby two injuries means Gavin Duffy makes an Irish 22 then I'm sorry but the time has come for Gilroy or Kearney Jr to be brought in front of him. Much as I respect Duffy this is essentially a wasted cap in that we can take nothing from it

[Notch]

Kearney is a fullback. Gilroy isn't. As much as I think Gilroy deserves to be starting the next test at 14, I just can't see any argument for bringing him out as our reserve 15. Either pick players in the positions they have proven themselves in or don't pick them at all.

Also wouldn't have called Duffy up by the way, David Kearney is the man I would be after. If he lost his passport, then it would be Duffy. If they both lost their passport I would still go to Conway, Adam D'Arcy and even beg Geordan Murphy out of retirement.

If there was even so much a broken fingernail for one of our wingers I would have Gilroy out like a shot and into the 22.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Gilroy does deserve to be there much to our disappointment but if he isn't a 15 he isn't a 15.

I'd bring Kearney Jr. Like it or not though, Gavin Duffy shall wear 22 and there is no debating that anymore

[Notch]

We are actually four or five injuries away from seeing Duffy- Kearney, Jones, Denis Hurley, Earls, Fitzgerald and even then we're overlooking David Kearney lads.

[rodders]

Notch Dave Kearney isn't playing fullback at provincial level, neither is Earls. It seems the only player who you have no faith in is Gilroy....feic sake its not that anyone expects him to play fly half....just sit on the bench and move to 15 if Kearney has to go off.

I mean what is Duffy going to do? He doesn't have the pace to make cover tackles or counterattack, he'll just kick the ball back to the all blacks. At least Gilroy will have a run... give the lad a chance. He's brimming with confidence and this would be a great experience for him.

[Notch]

What are you talking about? He's played 15 for Leinster. He's played there for Ireland A. Earls and Kearney have both played 15 at senior professional level whereas Gilroy never has. Kearney clearly has a skill set which has more in common with a fullback than Gilroy. His positional play is excellent. Gilroy is an out and out winger. No way would I have Zebo or Kearney ahead of Gilroy in the pecking order for the wing spot. What on earth is so hard to understand about playing guys in their best position?

I've already said if it was up to me I'd be starting Zebo and Gilroy next test and apparently I've no faith in Gilroy. Saying a player should play in his actual position in a test match against a top class international side is having no faith in him? Come off it.

[Notch]

I can't help but think if Declan Kidney had the bright idea of moving our most in-form winger to a position he'd only ever played a couple of times at U20 level he would (quite rightly) be slated for it.

[rodders]

Jeebus christ Notch if he can catch a ball and kick it he can move to full back in an emergency, which is all he'd be asked to do.

Whoever wears 22 has to come on wherever required and is just as likely to be coming on at wing.

Would you be happier with Duffy lining up against Savea?

For the record I would be just as happy with Kearney jr but I 100% have more faith in Gilroy coming on at fullback at this level than Gavin Duffy.

[Gibson]

Im in the soccerball zone right now... But Duffy? FFS!

[rodders]

Christ Notch man, I do get your logic here but its this conservative, low risk, pragmatic mindset that makes us so shoite.....

What is the big risk with Gilroy? That he has a bad game?

Flipping hell we could be starting with Lougney at TH prop, playing a winger at 15 for half an hour is the least of our bloody worries.....

[Notch]

You're right thats why I think it's a massive error to call up Duffy ahead of Kearney. Duffy can only cover fullback. Gilroy can only cover wing. Kearney is the only option left who can cover both.

And it's quite simple. I would prefer Duffy to play 15 ahead of Gilroy at any level because Duffy is a fullback and Gilroy isn't. I would prefer Gilroy to play on the wing ahead of Duffy at any level because he's a winger and Duffy isn't. Play players in roles they are used to and they are more likely to perform well. It's not rugby rocket science.

[Notch]

What is the big risk with Gilroy? That he has a bad game?

I just think we have enough wingers in the squad. Why would I call up another winger when we have enough specialist wingers? I think he should have been there in the first place- if it was up to me he would be there- but as it stands we need a fullback in our party of 30. Thats not a position Gilroy plays.

I've already said if it was up to me I would want us to invest in youth in this next test- start Zebo and Gilroy on the wings, start Cave at 13, persevere with Murray at 9. So it's kind of ironic you're accusing me of conservatism

[rodders]

Well I'd prefer Gilroy to Duffy because Gilroy is young, fast, strong, elusive and talented and with due respect to Duffy he is none of these and if he is caught one on one with the likes of Corey Jane then he will be skinned alive.

His potentially better positional sense will be as much good to us as t*ts on a bull against the ABs because he's as slow as a cart horse and not up to this level of rugby and never will be.

[rodders]

What is the big risk with Gilroy? That he has a bad game?

I just think we have enough wingers in the squad. Why would I call up another winger when we have enough specialist wingers?

Who? Trimble, whos not in great form and Zebo who's no more experienced than Duffy...am I missing someone?

We're one injury away from playing D'arcy on the wing but you think we have too many wingers?

[Notch]

I don't know why you're ranting on about Gavin Duffy at me I've already said I would call up Dave Kearney. I've said calling up Duffy is a mistake, David Kearney should be going instead and Gilroy should already be in the starting XV in is best position. What the flying f•ck more do you want me to say. Engage your brain for five seconds.

Kearney can play wing and fullback and is therefore a superior option to two players who can only play one or other. You're making yourself seem silly, go and calm down for a minute. Jesus.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I wouldn't put Gilroy at 22 as we need a designated guy who can play 15 and there is a lot of unseen positional stuff that is just simply done off camera but takes a fair bit of sense and experience.

I would have 100% brought Kearney Jr.

That being said I would 100% have brought Gilroy in the original 30 ahead of any of our other fit wingers.

[Notch]

I wouldn't put Gilroy at 22 as we need a designated guy who can play 15 and there is a lot of unseen positional stuff that is just simply done off camera but takes a fair bit of sense and experience.

I would have 100% brought Kearney Jr.

That being said I would 100% have brought Gilroy in the original 30 ahead of any of our other fit wingers.

The voice of sanity.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

This tour is not shaping up well......

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Notch-

Out of interest, what would make you decide to start Murray again?

[rodders]

Notch you have said clearly that you believe Duffy is a better option to cover for Earls than Gilroy on the basis that Duffy can cover 15 and Gilroy can't.

I am simply disputing this on the basis that I believe Gilroy is a better player and more able to cover fullback than Duffy is to cover wing, which if he wears the 22 jersey he is just as likely to do.

You've totally ignored that point, as you have the fact that we don't have much wing cover either.

[Notch]

No, it's not. Tour from hell in the offing.

For what its worth, Kidney made a big mistake with his backs selection and its led to a lot of other mistakes. He's brought Earls as his cover for fullback and wing but selected him at centre, and then he's picked four other centres. So we really rely on the versatility of Earls.

-The fact he's brought an extra centre means he has no room for Craig Gilroy as an out and out winger. That's a mistake. Now Keet is injured we essentially need another winger and another fullback. But we can only call up one player.
-He's ignored David Kearney- who can cover all three back three positions- in favour of Duffy. That's a mistake.
-And he'll justify it by saying McFadden can play on the wing. That's a mistake too.

[Notch]

rodders, read my previous post and for gods sake man, chill the f•ck out.

I'm saying this one call on who should travel out needs to be a fullback because he's painted himself into that corner with only one player in the squad who can play 15 left. I didn't make the decisions that left us at this impasse. Stop getting angry at me and start getting angry with the selectors, it's not my fault we need to get a guy who can play wing and fullback. And it's certainly not my fault the one player left who can do that is sitting at home.

[rodders]

Notch I am chilled.

I just happen to believe that Craig Gilroy is just as capable of coming of the bench to play fullback at this level as Gavin Duffy or Dave Kearney.

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