Euro 2012: Day 4 Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

France v England (17:00 ITV 1)
Ukraine v Sweden (19:45 BBC 1)

The 4th and final group commences tomorrow and it starts with a mouthwatering game between England and France. France are favourites for the game and some people's pick to win the whole thing, but never say never for England. The day is rounded off by co-hosts Ukraine playing the unfancied Swedes.

Come on England!

[Crimey]

I know this will sound rich coming from somebody who thinks Carroll should be starting but Welbeck's first touch is always a little bit heavy. He often recovers it, but if his first touch was better it'd help a lot.

[owen10ozzy]

Just because we are keeping the ball doesnt mean we are playing well. That last 10 mins showed why England arent a top 8 football nation.

We had a 5 minute spell of the ball and spent 90% of the time going backwards. The French knew when to press intelligently and in the end forced England to go long which resulted in nothing.

We lacked creativity going forwards and dont like having the ball at our feet (except Young & Chamberlain).

[Crimey]

We're playing decently, I still think this game is about 50/50 which is much better than first expected.

[Gibson]

Crikey, France are choc full of really decent players. England holding their own. 1st game is always cagey though, hard to work out which way teams want to play. Your'e right. No one wants to lose their 1st one, it's playing catchup from the start. I reckon it will be draw, but Im always wrong on scores. Gerrard is vital.

[Crimey]

I think everybody would be happy with a point, but if we play like this against Sweden and Ukraine I fancy us to get 3 points in both those games.

[cremmer]

I know this will sound rich coming from somebody who thinks Carroll should be starting but Welbeck's first touch is always a little bit heavy. He often recovers it, but if his first touch was better it'd help a lot.

That's true. And it's clear we're a big threat from set-pieces and I'd fancy Carroll against Rami and Mexes.

[owen10ozzy]

I think we are playing alright...but wouldnt say were playing well. I think France look more dangerous and likely to create/do something when going forward.

Id like to see Carrol come on for Welbeck..he will hold the ball up much better (Crimey your right Welbecks first touch is pretty atrocious) which will allow Gerrard, Milner & Chamberlain to catch up to the play when we do break.

[Gibson]

I think everybody would be happy with a point, but if we play like this against Sweden and Ukraine I fancy us to get 3 points in both those games.

I dont see why not. The Ukraine game could be a riot. In the crowd, not on the pitch. Hope the Ukrainians behave themselves if they are going out.

Benzema is deadly.

[Crimey]

Parker is a good player off the ball but too often when gets the ball he keeps it for too long, he takes about 3 or 4 touches every time, it should be 1, 2 and then a pass.

[owen10ozzy]

Thats what I find frustrating with England...if Hodgson is going with a defnesive mentality and looking to break away and counter surely the team have to get out of their half quicker when we pick the ball up.

Hart caught that corner threw it out to Chamberalin...apart from Young and Welbeck who were already forward their was no urgency from anyone else to push up...just walked out of our box!!

[owen10ozzy]

France are going to score in the next 5 minutes!!

[Crimey]

I'm surprised that no manager has made a change, all the others have gone for early changes.

[Guest]

Glen Johnson has been excellent today.

[Crimey]

Most touches bar Parker who has 2 more.

Very important tackle before and in the second half he has been the attacking outlet of the side.

[Crimey]

Very odd substitutions.

[mystiroakey]

Attacking subs. i like

[Guest]

Severely riding our luck now.

[Gibson]

A draw is cool for both sides. Ukraine are not all that, either are Sweden.

[Crimey]

Although it sounds like a poor excuse, there have been some very odd decisions against England in this game.

[owen10ozzy]

A draw would be good but England doing the usual and sitting deep clinging for a point. France to score in the final 10 minutes, probs set piece.

[Guest]

I smell a conspiracy Crimey. Awful officiating.

[Guest]

Did we just win a free kick? Wow..

[Crimey]

I've been pretty impressed by England to be honest, we've played far better than I ever expected. We're not world beaters, but we've got a good chance of getting out of our group. And if we can get a draw against France we can get a draw against most teams bar Spain and Germany most likely.

[Crimey]

I cannot believe that James Milner has lasted the full 90 minutes.

[cremmer]

Quite clear that both teams are well happy with a draw!

[Guest]

7/10 performance for me. We have perhaps at times stood off and let them have the ball too much but in general we've been quite sound. A draw is a great start. Onwards and upwards.

[Crimey]

I think the right backs were the best players for both sides.

[Gibson]

Decent start lads. Well done. Onwards & upwards.

[mystiroakey]

The problem is crimey. as bad as we think england are.so are other teams.

[mystiroakey]

We wernt outclassed. thats a positive i suppose. we even had abit of possesion. what annoys me is that we were actually better. we have more threat. when you build up quick you catch teams off guard. when you build up slow teams allow the opposition to organise. as england do..

[owen10ozzy]

Take a point - A few positives in Chamberlain who looked dangerous and wanted to attack and take on his man. Looked fairly solid from set pieces and kept France more or less shooting from range.

Hope people dont get to carried away though as there were alot of aspects of the game that still seem to be their which worry me.

Our lack of closing down is a real worry and will result in us being carved open against the likes of Spain, Germany & Holland. Just cannot give the very good teams that much time on the ball when in the final 3rd.

Johnson was better than normal...but he comes so far inside (towards Terry) that quite often he leaves his man free out wide and is then up against it to get to him before the ball comes in.

Parker & Gerrard were solid enough, neither looked to sharp going forward though and need to improve their passing in the coming games.

Id also play Carrol next time round instead of Welbeck. Nothing really negative about Welbecks performance but just feel that Carrol adds something else and is a much better option for the way Hodgson is setting out the team to play. Oh and also get Milner out...I know he is disciplined but he really is naff as an attacking threat.

[mystiroakey]

We wernt outclassed. thats a positive i suppose. we even had abit of possesion. what annoys me is that we were actually better. we have more threat. when you build up quick you catch teams off guard. when you build up slow teams allow the opposition to organise. as england do..

[Guest]

Chamberlain comes across as a really decent and genuine lad.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Johnson Terry and Cole all had very good games I thought. Parker and Gerrard pretty average, OX looked threatening if a little raw. Milner is rubbish. Young looked good but didn't get on the ball enough in the second half. Welbeck had a decent first half, but faded thereafter and his first touch is too heavy for a lone striker.

[Duty281]

Right well that was more than decent. Taking on the third best team of the tournament and drawing 1-1. Yes France may have had more chances and more of the ball but we saw it out. A point you say? Far better than many people would have dared to believe. Many fans were predicting a defeat. We will be difficult to beat at this tournament.

First half was good, England kept the ball well. Two good chances and we put one of them away. France cancel it out with a great long-range effort and it's 1-1. Second half, England were more defensive and weren't helped by a biased referee. How many fouls by the French went unpunished? I counted 4. Overall, Lescott did better than I thought he would, Parker was solid, Gerrard didn't attempt so many hollywood balls, Johnson defended and supported well, Oxlade was impressive and Milner did better than I thought he would. Bit disappointed with Young and Welbeck though.

Seeds of hope? Plenty. Let's beat the Swedes and the Ukrainians and then we can hopefully top our group. And another thing. The rest of the games will be played in the evening so will be cooler. Things will get better. 3,000 England fans were predicted but far more turned up, fantastic support!

Roll on Friday and a 2-0 win.

[hampo17]

First things first, the ref was a complete joke. Gave us nothing but could blow quick enough for the French. Welbeck isn't good enough, no first touch and with the system we played the strikers need to close the defenders down and he just didn't try to do it.

[Duty281]

I think I'd still pick Welbeck for Friday, Sweden will be a different kettle of fish to France.

[Mad for Chelsea]

I might as well get my England ratings up:

Hart - 6: couple of hairy moments, but made some good saves. Could maybe have done better for the goal though.

Johnson - 8: an early worry or two, but grew into the game magnificently. His best performance for England.

Terry - 8: very good. Read the game well all night to make some telling interceptions. Slightly surprised France never really tried to get in behind him though.

Lescott - 7: like Johnson, grew into the game, overall pretty solid at the back and scored England's goal.

Cole - 8: as solid as ever, though maybe didn't get forward as often as he'd have liked. World class player.

Milner - 4: decent defensive shift, but one dangerous ball aside right at the end offered nothing in attack and gave the ball away far too often. Poor miss too.

Parker - 6: made some good interceptions, but a bit slow on the ball, guilty of stepping off too much.

Gerrard - 6: lovely delivery for the goal, but guilty of backing off too far for the equaliser. Kept it simple.

OX - 7: looked threatening with the ball with some lovely touches, though caught out defensively a couple of times.

Young - 7: looked classy, but didn't get enough of the ball in the second half.

Welbeck - 5: useful first half. Faded thereafter. Can't help but feel his first touch is on the heavy side for a lone striker.

[Crimey]

I'd like to see Carroll given a go against Sweden.

[Guest]

I have to say that the standard of officiating has been shocking. I thought the Germany/Portugal game was awful, but the ref today. Wouldn't trust him in a pub team match. Consistently inconsistent.

I know Fergie once said European Ref's are fit as butchers dogs, but they can't officiate for sheet!

I really hope the standard improves!

[Guest]

not brilliant to be honest, however it is a point, and we are off and running for the tournament..

[Liam]

I was quite surprised by England's performance, they were actually pretty decent. Kept the ball well for parts but I think got a bit leggy from the heat and because it was their first game of the tournament. I think the problems at the centre of midfield was highlighted by Henderson coming on for Parker second half. They really need to protect Parker and Gerrard, especially Parker who I thought marshalled the midfield superbly.

[Duty281]

Match Stats don't look pretty for England:

(France/England)

Possession 65%/35%
Corners 11/4
Goal attempts 21/5
On target 7/1
Fouls 9/7

Then again, how many of those French shots were outside the box and never really tested the keeper? And the most important stat is the score, 1-1.

[Crimey]

We played much better than those stats suggest.

I feel more confident after the game than I did going into it.

[Duty281]

Right Ukraine-Sweden next, on Sportsguru I've predicted a draw so it definitely won't be that!

[JamesLincs]

stood off too much, which lead to there equaliser. otherwise very good performance

[Duty281]

Ukraine: Pyatov, Gusev, Mykhalyk, Khacheridi, Selin, Yarmolenko, Tymoschuk, Konoplianka, Nazarenko, Voronin, Shevchenko. Subs: Koval, Kucher, Garmash, Aliev, Shevchuk, Rakitskiy, Butko, Goryainov.

Sweden: Isaksson, Lustig, Mellberg, Granqvist, Martin Olsson, Elm, Kallstrom, Larsson, Ibrahimovic, Toivonen, Rosenberg. Subs: Wiland, Svensson, Jonas Olsson, Antonsson, Wernbloom, Safari, Holmen, Hansson.

Referee: Cuneyt Cakir (Turkey)

[Guest]

voronin

[Duty281]

A draw here would be lovely from an English perspective.

[Duty281]

Ukraine clearly suffering from a lack of top-quality centre forwards similiar to Portugal - Shevchenko's been over the hill since '06 and Voronin is..well he's Voronin.

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