Ireland vs New Zealand 2nd Test: Team announcements and matchday thread.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

Sorry boys new thread other one is full.


Venue for the 2nd test: AMI Stadium (Addington) - formerly Rugby League Park Christchurch
Capacity: 26,000 incl. temporary seating
Weather http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2192362 (current forecast for Saturday evening is around 3 degrees C and light rain. But last week's snow has melted at least)


courtesy of Taylorman:

NZ team named- only one change- Thompson for Vito (injured) with Sam Cane on the bench...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7098902/Thomson-in-for-Vito-Cane-on-All-Blacks-bench

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith

Irish team:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)


Tour Previews
http://www.v2journal.com/new-zealands-june-tests-preview.html
http://www.v2journal.com/irelands-summer-tour.html

[Rory_Gallagher]

If POM should be dropped, so should McFadden, Tuohy, Zebo and Earls. Personally I would keep all of those guys on the field except McFadden. Pete, I think McFadden has literally been at fault for at least one try nearly every game I have seen him. His defence is shocking.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Ausker-

I think our scrum was dominant until Fitzpatrick went off tbh. That's why I'd want to use it. I think with Ross involved it be ever more dominant than it was.

I have since read this.....
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0612/1224317754534.html

I've lost a lot of hope now I must say. If DOC is involved I will probably cry. Healy being 50-50 isn't good either. If Healy isn't fit then putting 2 props on the bench is an awful idea. I think if he is fit it would be good because I felt that we beat them in that area.

At least we now know why DK didn't chose Kearney Jr. But would he have even if Kearney Jr was fit? I guess we'll never know.

Rory I'd keep all those guys too tbh, obviously Earls is out. I don't think McF was at fault for any of the tries on Saturday but I agree he has made some bad errors in the past mainly at wing. It's interesting to note he has quite a good try scoring record for Ireland though. What he must have scored 4 tries already in something like 6 tests??????

[Sin é]

I'm not sensitive to balanced criticism - its mostly cheap potshots (you don't have to look very far up this thread to come across them) with not even an attempt at a rationale to back them up.

It should also be noted it has to be pointed out that I don't start the potshots (I'll respond though) which is usually responded of a chorus of 'you started the sexton v rog debate' - presumably that is the only retort that can be managed.

I think I mentioned Reddan & Sexton had started a game together (from a point of view of what you see as a favourite combination) and then I get accused of starting an O'Gara v Sexton debate!

"Maybe Sexton didn't want Madigan cramping his style on this tour Wink "

People were blaming Conor Murray for getting selected for the world cup QF. The real reason why Reddan (& Sexton) didn't start was because Sexton's kicking stats were poor and a Reddan & ROG half-back partnership was not going to be physical enough against the Welsh halfbacks.

"Sexton got about 200 pts and we all still hold our breaths to see if he is on target. "

He was a dodgy kicker internationally up to the 6Ns which I explained and no one disagreed with me that they were not wondering whether he had his kicking game internationally for the 6Ns.

Well, can you come up with any explaination was to why Madigan (who can kick) doesn't. Seems a logical point to make as it is often stated that Sexton can't handle competition from ROG as he needs (according to some commentators) that he is the chosen one and he gets upset if he sees ROG on the bench, or if ROG gets a minute of playing time. He would be far more worried about a talented Madigan (who can kick apparently, if he was allowed) on the bench.

"Reddan can blame that one on Sexton's lack of accuracy off the tee Wink "

3 quotes from you having a dig at Sexton before anyone mentioned RoG,you just keep trying to bait people into the same old argument again and again.

I'm sorry my turn of phrase does not appeal to you (or obviously others). Lots of posters here bore the pants off me with their turn of phrase and comments, but I don't feel the need to object to everything they post.

[SecretFly]

Gee secretfly great to see you know so much about NZ rugby and how it views the Irish tour. Funny...I never saw it like that. I saw it as an opportunity to see in a new coach and a few new players knowing that based on several irish winter tours here where the matches were often close that we could lose one.

But it seems since our convincing win we are a cynical lot, dismissive of any irish attempt to beat us so we can look good.

Funny i didnt see it that way...but each to his own..

New Zealand were cautious about Ireland? New Zealand journalists were worried? New Zealand commentators think the All Blacks will have a tougher job in the next two? Dan Carter's mid game speech when coming off the field when he yawned that they'd finish us off in the second?

Gee SecretFly knows how to read and observe world affairs from the comfort of his own TV and computer screen Now that's a world first in this instantanious world communication world.

Meanwhile, saying the ABs mean to punish Ireland as heavily as they can because they have other reasons than Ireland to do so is not an insult - you seem to think it so. It is what it is, a ruthless intention to kick any growing Irish self belief back into the gutter because doing so will cap the self belief of other emerging sides too.

I know what I know because I see what I see, read what I read and I hear what I hear, Taylorman. It's simple really.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Leinster have many good kickers unlike a lot of other teams. If we have a 15 who can kick better than our 10 why not use the 15? Our 10 could still be a very good kicker.

Simple.

[rodders]

When is the team announced??

[Notch]

Taylorman, Fly

If I was New Zealand I'd be looking to sow into Ireland so hard this weekend it's a generation before we dare to mutter about getting that elusive first win again. When you have an advantage, make it count. Thats not an insult, thats respect for your opponent; to give him your best regardless of his standing.

[disneychilly]

Whatever the consequences of any NZ Ireland result, NZ I'm sure are fully focused on Ireland and nothing else. The aura is for Ireland etc to worry about-I don't think it enters into their thinking. Obviously the pressure is there to maintain the unbeaten record but it's focusing on each game which has led NZ to win one time, after one time, after one time...You think too fr ahead and you'll get tripped up. One game at a time-which is what Henry learned after 07.

By the way Fly I may have read it wrong but I hope you weren't implying that the close win vs France in the final diminished the NZ aura!

[disneychilly]

Damn straight Notch. No vaseline will be applied this weekend and neither should it.

[Sin é]

Leinster have many good kickers unlike a lot of other teams. If we have a 15 who can kick better than our 10 why not use the 15? Our 10 could still be a very good kicker.

Simple.

Happy for you. just don't moan about that 10 when he doesn't get to tour for Ireland because Ireland doesn't have a kicker elsewhere who can take his kicks.

His day might come though, if JJ makes the grade.

[Rory_Gallagher]

This tour is a complete mess in my opinion. Not only are players getting injured, but our confidence is getting torn apart.

[Pete330v2]

Taylorman, Fly

If I was New Zealand I'd be looking to sow into Ireland so hard this weekend it's a generation before we dare to mutter about getting that elusive first win again. When you have an advantage, make it count. Thats not an insult, thats respect for your opponent; to give him your best regardless of his standing.

Absolutely correct Notch. The All Blacks don't know any other way lets face it. It's not in their nature to approach a test match with anything other than utter ruthlessness.
They will be making it their mission to put even more points on us and will be more than capable of doing so if our lads can't lift their game and play some heads up rugby. The Reddan/Sexton partnership is as vital as it's ever been, the Murray/Sexton has been proven unworthy long before the squad ever got on the plane to the land of the long white cloud.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Leinster have many good kickers unlike a lot of other teams. If we have a 15 who can kick better than our 10 why not use the 15? Our 10 could still be a very good kicker.

Simple.

Happy for you. just don't moan about that 10 when he doesn't get to tour for Ireland because Ireland doesn't have a kicker elsewhere who can take his kicks.

His day might come though, if JJ makes the grade.

Seriously Sin, you are such an ignorant fool. MADIGAN CAN KICK. For flip sake, how many times do you need to be told?

[asoreleftshoulder]

"Maybe Sexton didn't want Madigan cramping his style on this tour Wink "

People were blaming Conor Murray for getting selected for the world cup QF. The real reason why Reddan (& Sexton) didn't start was because Sexton's kicking stats were poor and a Reddan & ROG half-back partnership was not going to be physical enough against the Welsh halfbacks.

I made that point and it wasn't blaming Murray for being picked it was pointing out that if Murray can be picked as a complete rookie for a WC quarter final then Madigan can surely come on an end of year tour with nothing at stake but pride and get some gametime from the bench.Anyway how does that have anything to do with Madigan cramping his style?It's an antagonistic comment designed to start an argument.

"Sexton got about 200 pts and we all still hold our breaths to see if he is on target. "

He was a dodgy kicker internationally up to the 6Ns which I explained and no one disagreed with me that they were not wondering whether he had his kicking game internationally for the 6Ns.

It's still a dig at Sexton,you were responding to a point about Madigan but had to drag a snarky Sexton comment into it.

Well, can you come up with any explaination was to why Madigan (who can kick) doesn't. Seems a logical point to make as it is often stated that Sexton can't handle competition from ROG as he needs (according to some commentators) that he is the chosen one and he gets upset if he sees ROG on the bench, or if ROG gets a minute of playing time. He would be far more worried about a talented Madigan (who can kick apparently, if he was allowed) on the bench.

"Reddan can blame that one on Sexton's lack of accuracy off the tee Wink "

Again the point was about Madigan getting gametime on an end of year tour compared to Murray starting a WC quarter final with far less experience and you have to have a dig at Sexton.You're the one who keeps bringing Sexton up.

3 quotes from you having a dig at Sexton before anyone mentioned RoG,you just keep trying to bait people into the same old argument again and again.

I'm sorry my turn of phrase does not appeal to you (or obviously others). Lots of posters here bore the pants off me with their turn of phrase and comments, but I don't feel the need to object to everything they post.
[/quote]

Actually you constantly object to any comment that is remotely critical of Munster or their players.

[rodders]

This tour is a complete mess in my opinion. Not only are players getting injured, but our confidence is getting torn apart.

Ah come on Rory mate, we've only played one game....no need to throw the baby out with the bath water......

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Leinster have many good kickers unlike a lot of other teams. If we have a 15 who can kick better than our 10 why not use the 15? Our 10 could still be a very good kicker.

Simple.

Happy for you. just don't moan about that 10 when he doesn't get to tour for Ireland because Ireland doesn't have a kicker elsewhere who can take his kicks.

His day might come though, if JJ makes the grade.

Seriously Sin, you are such an ignorant fool. MADIGAN CAN KICK. For flip sake, how many times do you need to be told?

Rory, can you lay off the personal attacks. Feel free to point out the straw men and inaccuracies in arguments by all means though

[asoreleftshoulder]

Lol even a neutral moderator can see it.

[disneychilly]

To the Irish guys, how are you feeling about NZ having a lot to work on? Are you guys worried that they'll fix their problems and provide a better performance or encouraged that you boys did well in certain areas and will attack those weaknesses NZ showed on Sat?

BTW if O'Gara plays I think it'll be curtains. Obviously the ABs will target him with SBW-if SOB gets to him first he'll still offload to a fella charging right at ROG in the same phase. To cover that the backs will have to be narrower leading the others to get outflanked again.

Think NZ and Ireland have roughly the same amount out injury/retirement wise. The depth is worrying though and I hope you guys don't have any more injuries after this weekend.

[Rory_Gallagher]

This tour is a complete mess in my opinion. Not only are players getting injured, but our confidence is getting torn apart.

Ah come on Rory mate, we've only played one game....no need to throw the baby out with the bath water......

It is more a reflection of the entire year, and the amount of injuries happening right now. Lets be honest, while Ireland can improve, NZ were not even playing at their best. That was a new start for them, and they have only just begun.

[Rory_Gallagher]

To the Irish guys, how are you feeling about NZ having a lot to work on? Are you guys worried that they'll fix their problems and provide a better performance or encouraged that you boys did well in certain areas and will attack those weaknesses NZ showed on Sat?

BTW if O'Gara plays I think it'll be curtains. Obviously the ABs will target him with SBW-if SOB gets to him first he'll still offload to a fella charging right at ROG in the same phase. To cover that the backs will have to be narrower leading the others to get outflanked again.

Think NZ and Ireland have roughly the same amount out injury/retirement wise. The depth is worrying though and I hope you guys don't have any more injuries after this weekend.

Yeah, this is exactly what I mean. There is room for improvement for the best side in the world. Pretty scary.

[SecretFly]

Whatever the consequences of any NZ Ireland result, NZ I'm sure are fully focused on Ireland and nothing else. The aura is for Ireland etc to worry about-I don't think it enters into their thinking. Obviously the pressure is there to maintain the unbeaten record but it's focusing on each game which has led NZ to win one time, after one time, after one time...You think too fr ahead and you'll get tripped up. One game at a time-which is what Henry learned after 07.

By the way Fly I may have read it wrong but I hope you weren't implying that the close win vs France in the final diminished the NZ aura!

What am I implying? Read the stuff that gets written. Read the acres of print after that final....from both Hemispheres. Not just the journalists - the followers. You say the All Blacks don't worry about the 'aura' - they worry about it every single day - it's the extra burden every player who wears the black has to bear when he goes onto the field - sustaining it. It helps. Auras help. They are a pressure to sustain but they help dampen the intentions of opponents.... it's like the fabled "Home" advantage. Home advantage does have meaning ----- until you lose and then it becomes less so. And you have to do the tough business of building up the "Home advantage" record again. These philosophical and psychological ideas and ideals have real practical meaning.

So yes, read what was written post the French WC game against NZ. Did the aura take a knock? - it did. I'm implying nothing, I'm reflecting on the comments post that game. Do the All Blacks need to reaffirm the 'unbeatable' tag, even though they didn't actually lose!!!! - well in the minds of many who commented post-France WC game - yes. They're serious about that job and, of course, Ireland has to be the first sucker side to feel the crunch of that intent

Finally, if the word 'aura' has little significance for ABs or their supporters, why the guffaw when I alluded to the French world cup game? Hoping you didn't read me right suggests it's not something you want to comptemplate.

[rodders]

To the Irish guys, how are you feeling about NZ having a lot to work on? Are you guys worried that they'll fix their problems and provide a better performance or encouraged that you boys did well in certain areas and will attack those weaknesses NZ showed on Sat?

Worried probably isn't the right word...lets face it we haven't much more too lose here now... but yes I'd expect NZ to really try and come out and try and blow us away at the breakdown...SOB will be a marked man.... their scrum will be stronger and Woodcock won't have liked being matched by a rookie for 50min...

That said it's back to the wall stuff from us now, we have a lot more areas to improve on than NZ......

[Rory_Gallagher]

Rory, can you lay off the personal attacks. Feel free to point out the straw men and inaccuracies in arguments by all means though

Apologies, but the amount of topics that have been completely derailed and ruined by Sin, as he turns everything into misguided Sexton hate and a Leinster vs Munster argument does tend to drive people insane. It is so boring and repetitive now.

[asoreleftshoulder]

To the Irish guys, how are you feeling about NZ having a lot to work on? Are you guys worried that they'll fix their problems and provide a better performance or encouraged that you boys did well in certain areas and will attack those weaknesses NZ showed on Sat?

BTW if O'Gara plays I think it'll be curtains. Obviously the ABs will target him with SBW-if SOB gets to him first he'll still offload to a fella charging right at ROG in the same phase. To cover that the backs will have to be narrower leading the others to get outflanked again.

Think NZ and Ireland have roughly the same amount out injury/retirement wise. The depth is worrying though and I hope you guys don't have any more injuries after this weekend.

There's a thing in gambling called a pain threshold,it refers to a point where someone has lost so much that losing more doesn't matter.This is how compulsive gamblers can lose everything as you're 10 grand in the hole then getting to 100 grand relatively speaking isn't much worse.

This is how I feel about our rugby team at the minute,we have been so bad for so long that no matter what happens I don't think I can feel any worse.

[Sin é]

Actually you constantly object to any comment that is remotely critical of Munster or their players.

Really. Could you show me the posts where I defended POM (who Mickardo seems to think should be dropped in favour of McLaughlin?)

[Rory_Gallagher]

So you agree that O'Mahony had a poor game, Sin? That he was at fault for the Thomson try?

[disneychilly]

Guess I did read it wrong if the consequence of it was that rant! It wasn't meant to be a guffaw mate. I just think that winning a World Cup final would augment any side's standing-no matter how close.

I should've put aura in quotation marks. I think that we are obsessed over results/winning. Any supposed aura then is in the mind of the others-let that and the media use the results to cause havoc in the minds of the other team. We've been a victim of it every four years up to last.

We never call ourselves unbeatable. We only win 3/4 of our Tests. Average that out-in a 12 test season that's 3 losses. Last unbeaten year was 97. There have been plenty of games where we haven't played well but got the result-they're not all walkovers.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Vito is out for a month (big blow to Hurricanes) so Thomson comes in and Laurie will probably get to see his tip Cane come on in the second half. Sorry for Vito as he's had a good year as Canes captain but not convinced with him at 6.

The big improvement I want to see is the breakdown. Clear out those players with good body position. Something maybe missing without Thorn and Kaino. But plenty enough players to get the job done.

When a man is down, the best option is to kick him whilst he's down. Notlike the WWF and turn your back on your opponent and start talking to random people and leave chairs in the ring that your opponent can use to beat you with. No! Foot on the jugular and squeeze the life out of your opponent. Never pick up a microphone and never turn your back. It's about as much a death wish as the security officer on the old Star Trek (the one where they killed the aliens not engaged in diplomacy with them). You know that poor bugger is going to be the one killed in that search party. Kirk: 'I´ll take Scotty, Spock and that guy whose name I don't know nor ever will.'

[rodders]

Have Ireland hit rock bottom yet though? I'm not so sure.... England exposed our pack in March and Wales * 2 and now NZ have exposed our backline.

No one has yet exposed both at the same time.

We are like a battered prizefighter on the ropes waiting to be knocked out....we desperately need to throw something back to show we still have something left in the tank.......

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Have Ireland hit rock bottom yet though? I'm not so sure.... England exposed our pack in March and Wales * 2 and now NZ have exposed our backline.

No one has yet exposed both at the same time.

We are like a battered prizefighter on the ropes waiting to be knocked out....we desperately need to throw something back to show we still have something left in the tank.......

In fishing terms, if you caught him, you'd throw him back.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Have Ireland hit rock bottom yet though? I'm not so sure.... England exposed our pack in March and Wales * 2 and now NZ have exposed our backline.

No one has yet exposed both at the same time.

We are like a battered prizefighter on the ropes waiting to be knocked out....we desperately need to throw something back to show we still have something left in the tank.......

Rodders, you just told me off for my pessimism! Now I feel even worse!

[rodders]

Or maybe we are just doing the old Muhammed Ali rope-a-dope....

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Rory, can you lay off the personal attacks. Feel free to point out the straw men and inaccuracies in arguments by all means though

Apologies, but the amount of topics that have been completely derailed and ruined by Sin, as he turns everything into misguided Sexton hate and a Leinster vs Munster argument does tend to drive people insane. It is so boring and repetitive now.

Rory does have a point Kiwi

[asoreleftshoulder]

Actually you constantly object to any comment that is remotely critical of Munster or their players.

Really. Could you show me the posts where I defended POM (who Mickardo seems to think should be dropped in favour of McLaughlin?)

No but if I went searching I could find posts where you defended RoG,Leamy,Hayes,Horan,Flannery,DoC,Murray,ToL,maybe Buckley,Earls,Zebo and Kidney just off the top of my head.

I'm not going to do it as I couldn't be bothered but if you ask other posters I'm sure they can come up with more.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

It's not all lost for Ireland. Give them each a copy of the NZ Herald and that'll put some fire into them. Shore up the defence of the 12, 13 wing axis and stop the aimless long kicking to players who have been picked specifically to run the ball back at you. Don't give them space, either on defence or on attack. Get in the faces more of the ABs. The likes of Carter already to have time on their hands so make life more difficult for them. Hinder the service he gets from Smith. Keep the ball in hand more and set up those phases and get quick ball and then use intelligent kicking like cross field bombs aimed at Guildford or Savea who might well struggle in that area. And lastly, do so at pace. You can't catch the ABs off guard with slow ball.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I think one of our biggest problems, apart from our complete lack of creativity, is a lack of powerful runners in the back line.

[Sin é]

So you agree that O'Mahony had a poor game, Sin? That he was at fault for the Thomson try?

Straw man Rory. Not the point here. (Its about the claim that I defend EVERY Munster player).

Some more straw men for you:

Mickado:

You know nothing about rugby do you mate. Chirs Rattue!

Here's a stat you'll enjoy Sin, ROG hasn't scored a single point for Ireland this year despite playing in 6 tests!!!!

Boyne:
No doubt Pat Shortt (aka Sin) has some hyperbole to counter that.

Leinsterfan4life:
Id rather have noel reid starting ahead of o'gara thats how bad he has gone

pete330v2: I'd prefer Noel Fielding myself

Pete: Sin. I'm not going into any more than that but you obviously have very little in terms of a grasp on how rugby is played.

[rodders]

You can't catch the ABs off guard with slow ball.

Easier said than done when your scrum half is nicknamed Captain slow...... ....

[Rory_Gallagher]

I think people are sick of explaining things in full at this point, as you completely ignore everything that is said.

It isn't a straw man argument, O'Mahony had a poor game, so I am asking if you can admit to that. The reason I don't think you have defended him yet is because you have been busy letting us know how much you hate Sexton and love ROG as usual.

[SecretFly]

Guess I did read it wrong if the consequence of it was that rant! It wasn't meant to be a guffaw mate. I just think that winning a World Cup final would augment any side's standing-no matter how close.

I should've put aura in quotation marks. I think that we are obsessed over results/winning. Any supposed aura then is in the mind of the others-let that and the media use the results to cause havoc in the minds of the other team. We've been a victim of it every four years up to last.

We never call ourselves unbeatable. We only win 3/4 of our Tests. Average that out-in a 12 test season that's 3 losses. Last unbeaten year was 97. There have been plenty of games where we haven't played well but got the result-they're not all walkovers.

You call it a rant, I'll call it case argued successfully. You make the mistake of thinking my readings of other readings (journos, players, followers) are my views. I think All Blacks are the best rugby nation this world has ever seen - and I'm lucky in that they have a pretty impressive record to prove it - I'm lucky too that for as long as I've been watching rugby, and it began in the 70s, they've been my favourite 2nd side. But when I talk perceptions (both in the minds of the ABs themselves and in the minds of the world's media and followers) I do so to elucidate points not to say the "All Blacks ain't all that good, mate!!"

[Sin é]

Actually you constantly object to any comment that is remotely critical of Munster or their players.

Really. Could you show me the posts where I defended POM (who Mickardo seems to think should be dropped in favour of McLaughlin?)

No but if I went searching I could find posts where you defended RoG,Leamy,Hayes,Horan,Flannery,DoC,Murray,ToL,maybe Buckley,Earls,Zebo and Kidney just off the top of my head.

I'm not going to do it as I couldn't be bothered but if you ask other posters I'm sure they can come up with more.

LOL. POM was criticised a few posts above and you made the claim that I defended ALL munster players. Maybe you are a bit set in your prejudices

bye the day, I've often defended D'Arcy & Fitz as well.

Maybe I'm the type of person who looks for the good bits (and I definately don't like some of the abuse dished out to some of the players here).

[asoreleftshoulder]

It's not all lost for Ireland. Give them each a copy of the NZ Herald and that'll put some fire into them. Shore up the defence of the 12, 13 wing axis and stop the aimless long kicking to players who have been picked specifically to run the ball back at you. Don't give them space, either on defence or on attack. Get in the faces more of the ABs. The likes of Carter already to have time on their hands so make life more difficult for them. Hinder the service he gets from Smith. Keep the ball in hand more and set up those phases and get quick ball and then use intelligent kicking like cross field bombs aimed at Guildford or Savea who might well struggle in that area. And lastly, do so at pace. You can't catch the ABs off guard with slow ball.

It is all lost Kia,we've been calling for Kidney to stop the aimless kicking for over 2 years why would he start now.Also our defence coach now has a 2nd job as he coaches the attack too.Where he was a fantastic defence coach he is now doing a mediocre job at both.We have a lame duck coach just seeing out his contract as the IRFU won't hire any more support staff fo him and I think you can see really see it in the way the players are performing.They are still trying their best but there seems to be no faith that what they are doing will work.

[rodders]

I think one of our biggest problems, apart from our complete lack of creativity, is a lack of powerful runners in the back line.

Thats the biggest problem Rory.... any decent ball carriers we have are in the pack, specifically the backrow...but you need strike threat and power to get you on the front foot off first phase ball to give the backrow a target and to set up the subsequent phases.

Gordon D'arcy used to be one of the best in the game at this but unfortunately no more..... Ireland just haven't found a backline target to replace D'arcy in that midfield.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Exactly Sin, he was criticised a few posts above. So I am asking you, do you agree? Did he have a poor game? Was he to blame for the try? You surely can never admit when it is a Munster play to blame, that is a fact.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I think one of our biggest problems, apart from our complete lack of creativity, is a lack of powerful runners in the back line.

Thats the biggest problem Rory.... any decent ball carriers we have are in the pack, specifically the backrow...but you need strike threat and power to get you on the front foot off first phase ball to give the backrow a target and to set up the subsequent phases.

Gordon D'arcy used to be one of the best in the game at this but unfortunately no more..... Ireland just haven't found a backline target to replace D'arcy in that midfield.

We do have Kearney, watching him bounce SBW was a joy to watch, but he is a 15. We need a few more guys more involved. We should bring Kearney into the game even more though, because honestly we need someone to put us on the front foot.

[rodders]

Rory would you ignore SIN FFS man!...He is never going to admit he is wrong!

[Rory_Gallagher]

Gilroy is another player we COULD have brought on this tour to offer that. He likes to punch holes in defences.

We need one guy like that in the centre as well though.

[Pete330v2]

[quote="disneychilly"]To the Irish guys, how are you feeling about NZ having a lot to work on? Are you guys worried that they'll fix their problems and provide a better performance or encouraged that you boys did well in certain areas and will attack those weaknesses NZ showed on Sat?

Put it like this, I wish we had been the side touring either South Africa or Australia right now or better still going the Scottish route. We need some world ranking points, we aren't going to get any and we're in danger of slipping down the rankings even further with the gormless DK at the helm. If England or Wales had chosen to tour New Zealand I'd be feeling sorry for them. Not as sorry as I feel for the very talented Irish guys who are being shackled by a lack of ideas from the coaching setup.

[rodders]

I think one of our biggest problems, apart from our complete lack of creativity, is a lack of powerful runners in the back line.

Thats the biggest problem Rory.... any decent ball carriers we have are in the pack, specifically the backrow...but you need strike threat and power to get you on the front foot off first phase ball to give the backrow a target and to set up the subsequent phases.

Gordon D'arcy used to be one of the best in the game at this but unfortunately no more..... Ireland just haven't found a backline target to replace D'arcy in that midfield.

We do have Kearney, watching him bounce SBW was a joy to watch, but he is a 15. We need a few more guys more involved. We should bring Kearney into the game even more though, because honestly we need someone to put us on the front foot.

Kearney is a fullback, not an inside centre and he is nowhere near as powerful a carrier as we need...sure Savea nearly knocked him back to D4!

You need a guy taking the ball flat from 2nd reciever and getting you over the gainline to set your attacking platform.

SBW was doing it all night for NZ.

[Rory_Gallagher]

We don't need the powerful runner to be an inside centre rodders, I would prefer we have an outside centre to perform that role, with a more creative 12 inside him. Kearney is certainly powerful though, I have seen him get past flankers this year.

So weighing up our options, who do we have as a strike runner in the centres? Nevin Spence and..?

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