Ulster squad additions

First topic message reminder :

Trimble has started following Jacques Botes on Twitter if that means anything...?
#Geoffisbetterthantwitter

Notch, this isnt just a foreigner, hes a project. If he has no intention of playing for Ireland, then i feel that Ulster have knowingly used a rule to get an extra mercanery. Besides, i think payne has declared that he would consider playing for Ireland.

Apart from that, the province thing is only part of the story, and the IRFUs power over us lies in central contracts. But technically, we are a professional club and brand. We do what it takes to win. I don't like it much, but its the truth. And at least we are talking about a project rather than an NIQ.

If he has no intention of playing for Ireland, then i feel that Ulster have knowingly used a rule to get an extra mercanery.

Isn't that the point really?

That's essentially what the rule is for clive. A way to bring in an extra NIQ but dress it up as progressive. If Payne recaptures his super 15 form for a couple of years and it was agrreable to him he would waltz into an Ireland squad.

I'm not suggesting that is in paynes plan at present but things can happen in two years. He could love the country and want to stay, he might meet a significant other etc etc. Should anything like that happen and should his form continue then Payne becomes an option. That being said in the present we have to develop spence, Marshall, Gilroy, Farrell, Nelson, Mcallister, Macklin into viable options.

Nelson looks another real talent, but he is also going to be finding it hard to get game time with Payne and D'Arcy ahead of him.

clivemcl wrote:Notch, this isnt just a foreigner, hes a project. If he has no intention of playing for Ireland, then i feel that Ulster have knowingly used a rule to get an extra mercanery. Besides, i think payne has declared that he would consider playing for Ireland.

Apart from that, the province thing is only part of the story, and the IRFUs power over us lies in central contracts. But technically, we are a professional club and brand. We do what it takes to win. I don't like it much, but its the truth. And at least we are talking about a project rather than an NIQ.

Clive this is the thing that shouldn't be lost. I have been saying it for two years now. It's also what Logan and Humphries are saying. Its also why I believe somewhere along the line there will be a big shake-up in Irish Rugby with regard to how the provinces are run. The impending talks on the future of the Henieken Cup will also have a big effect. Imagine if the English and French clubs were to pull out! Provincial rugby in Ireland in its current form wouldn't be sustainable without it.

For me, until he qualifies for Ireland he is NIQ. His contract expires a few days after that so all it is is if he likes it here, likes the rugby, likes the country and feels attached enough to Ireland to want to represent us it's just one option he can pursue in his career.

Project players are just fancy NIQs.

Notch if he performs well Im sure theyll offer him a new contract before then and well hopefully know his intentions sooner

Geoff told me Botes is a no go looking at Delve, thats why humph was in Oz.






making this up by the way.

Kingshu wrote:Geoff told me Botes is a no go looking at Delve, thats why humph was in Oz.

making this up by the way.

No chance will Payne play for Ireland. The guy will be back to NZ when his contract expires, I'm sure he still harbours AB ambitions.

Justice 4 Geoff

Rodders!



How many times??

Justice 998 Geoff!

Mrs P!

Justice 998(999) Geoff!

rodders wrote: Mrs P!

Justice 998(999) Geoff!

Geoff is my age. If he wants to go off in a huff then that's his perogative I'm sure he will be back when there is some definite information to impart.

No comment

I don't think Payne will play for Ireland either but I genuinely don't think he will be an all black. And I also think he believes that

I'm not convinced Cave is Test class, simply because he doesn't have the break-free acceleration. Spence looks like a better long term bet.

BTW good an all as St Stefan was it showed no regard for Ireland to play him ahead of D'Arcy.Far too many people rate D'Arcy on his lack of reputation rather than his actual play.

I think Cave has the brains to play at the top level but has two flaws... he lacks pace and his long range passing is poor particularly off his left hand....

One of those can be fixed the other can't.

I personally think he can play at international level if he's paired with a partner who can compensate for his lack of acceleration.

Earls and Cave is a perfect combo imo.

Rodders - I don't get the hype around Earls at all. His problem is a lack of winning mentality. He has the ability but he doesn't express it anywhere near as much as he should. OTOH Cave has plenty of belief but sadly a lack of outstanding ability. So they could be yin and yang if they played at the same province but they just won't have enough time to express that at Test level.

I can see Cave getting sidelined this coming season unless he learns how to impose himself more on the game.

The Great Aukster wrote:I'm not convinced Cave is Test class, simply because he doesn't have the break-free acceleration. Spence looks like a better long term bet.

I agree. Plus, Spence's strength is a real asset. Nobody offers what he does in Ireland atm.

I don't either, I think he's massively overhyped...but he is good..as is Cave. Fitzgerald is better than either imo.... but they're all good and will fature promenantly for province and country over they next 6/7 seasons imo.

Who do you think is overhyped rodders? Spence?

Sorry Rory... no Earls...was responding to Aukster...

I don't see cave being usurped at the minute. Spence will have to improve to take is shirt (I genuinely hope he can). Caves passing of both hands far surpasses spence but the beauty is that a new coach is in so there is a clean slate.

I don't think cave will ever be a great international but I think he can fill a gap. Much like I said Marshall needs to show his ability as Farrell is coming through in think spence is the same. He has the raw materials but he needs his edges smoothed IMO

I think Spence was better last season than Cave has been this season. I honestly do. They are both totally different players though. Cave can operate outside a more physical 12, while Spence needs someone clever inside him to put him into space. I think passing/hands can be improved on over time, but he obviously needs to play in order to improve.

And rodders, to be honest, I agree. A lot of fans from other countries don't seem to rate him highly at all.

I still would love to see what Fitzgerald can do at 13 for Leinster.

I'd love to see what he can do at 11 if he didn't get injured.....

At wing he has the same problem as Cave I reckon.. I mean he is obviously faster than Cave, but he will be up against some speedsters at wing. I think 13 would fit him perfectly. Earlier in his career I am fairly sure he was described as a young O'Driscoll. Not bad.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:At wing he has the same problem as Cave I reckon.. I mean he is obviously faster than Cave, but he will be up against some speedsters at wing. I think 13 would fit him perfectly. Earlier in his career I am fairly sure he was described as a young O'Driscoll. Not bad.

Rory anyone who could catch it and run with it was called the new O'Driscoll.

Well, he is the first guy I have heard described as having a similar game to a young O'Driscoll. I know a few guys have been called "the next O'Driscoll" as a way of saying they are next for the 13 shirt, but Fitz was described as having the same sort of talent as a young O'Driscoll.

Standulstermen wrote:I don't think Payne will play for Ireland either but I genuinely don't think he will be an all black.

Payne is a solid all rounder but not exceptional enough to merit AB selection either last year nor in two years' time.
He played his best footy in the first half of last years super & needed to be included in the first AB Tri Nations training squad.

NZ have an amazing production line of versitile outside backs at the moment. Toeava (age 26), Dagg (23), Guilford (23) can all play 15 & neither Ben Smith (26) nor Maitland (23) made the RWC squad.

Payne wasn't born with the same stardust as these guys but to his full credit worked on his game to become a super regular in 2010-11 & get noticed nationally.

Lacks extreme pace & razzle dazzle of a Beale / Slater and not a natural soccer kicker, but He is a fantastic physical link player in a back line.
Great at spotting gaps & playing supporting runners into holes.
A notch up in attack compared to ST.

I wouldn't rule him out of Irish contention if / when eligible.

Are you referring to Billy slater of RL? It's hard to make the comparison across codes although slater is very good in league

Ulster are going to have some VERY talented options in the outside backs over the next few seasons. I include 13 in that. Cave, Spence, Farrell, Trimble, Bowe, Gilroy, Cochrane, Payne, D'Arcy, Nelson. That is a nice list of players. I wouldn't trade any one of them.

You forgot Luke Marshall! Last season never really happened for him with injuries and all the rest of it, but I genuinely believe he'll be first choice for Ulster and push for international honours. Paddy Wallace also has a few years left in the tank and whatever about him in green, he's shown his class for Ulster a lot this year.

Cracking three-quarter line taking shape at Ulster.

I wasn't including 12s in that mate! Outside backs, including the outside centres.

Standulstermen wrote:Are you referring to Billy slater of RL? It's hard to make the comparison across codes although slater is very good in league

Off topic but having watched NRL for years, Slater is one of the most complete runners to play the game in either code.

I did hear a rumor, from someone talking to a first team ulster and irish international that Ulster are looking to try and sign Dan Carter.

I know I did make up the Delve one but this is a genuine rumor. (however I think it unlikey myself TBH).

It may make sense DC is allowed a one year break in Europe, and I don't think anyone will say it will hurt PJ's development to train beside him for a year. IRFU may not allow us to NIQ half backs but I'd think that they may be willing to allow a one year break in that for the likes of DC.

From their viewpoint it will progress PJ, the team will have a better chance of moving on, attendances and merchendising are likley to offset his high cost (a bit), and grow the Ulster and Irish rugby brands, worldwide, possibly leading to a long term gain, for a one year investment.

Feel a bit like the boy who cried wolf with the Delve thing, but this one is a genuine rumor. (could be a bit of leg pulling by the player in my opinion).

Nah, it'll never happen. No chance.

I would imagine leg pulling there kings. Can't see it at all.

Consider all legs pulled. DC isn't going to come to Ulster.

Mind you I did think that about St Ruan when the rumours were flying about him and all and sundry were pooh-poohing the very suggestion

I your source may be taking the pish, I've seen this rumour before but it contradicts what Shane Logan said at the URSC AGM regarding the IRFUs stance on a 10 and he's almost definitely way beyond our budget.

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one, proper silly season stuff.

I doubt it myself, but if it does happen you can all hail me as the new Geoff.

If it happened, I wouldn't know how to feel. Probably quite disappointed and pessimistic. A budget breaking signing would leave us needing to cut more places from the squad to make up the shortfall. We'd have much less depth, and much less money to strengthen in the future. All problems that would bite us in the ass when he left after his brief sabbatical.

Of course the point is moot as it will definitely not happen. But we should be thinking a bit more long term than throwing crazy money at people to come for just one year. This isn't Greece circa 2007. You need to balance the books.

Don't even know why I'm entertaining the notion. We all know it's ridiculous.

I hear the Carter rumour is a smokescreen for McCaw coming in and Sextons fed up winning things with Leinster so hes moving to Ulster for a new challenge and to mentor Jackson

Notch wrote:If it happened, I wouldn't know how to feel.

I do! Ignore Notch! Come to Belfast Dan! We you!.....




p.s. ... if Dan Carter is at Ulster next season I'll eat my Ulster beanie hat..

Carter won't come to Ulster. He's left footed isn't he?

Notch wrote:If it happened, I wouldn't know how to feel. Probably quite disappointed and pessimistic. A budget breaking signing would leave us needing to cut more places from the squad to make up the shortfall. We'd have much less depth, and much less money to strengthen in the future. All problems that would bite us in the ass when he left after his brief sabbatical.

Don't even know why I'm entertaining the notion. We all know it's ridiculous.

GMac has just won another 500k.

He's a big mate of Rory's


Just saying.....................

500k eh.... has Gavin Henson signed for anyone yet? ....

Rava wrote:Carter won't come to Ulster. He's left footed isn't he?

Now that's comedy!!

I've heard the Dan Carter thing too, from a well informed rugby guy who told me he'd heard it from a good source (and he's friendly with many a good source) so there has to be something to it, even if it just a wind up that has somehow spread around.

But I told him he was having a laugh, and I don't believe for one second that, even if they have made a few inquiries, that its ever going to happen, for all the reasons already stated.

Can't knock the ambition of those at the top tho, and if by some miracle Dan decided to come, it would be absolutely fantastic!