Ulster squad additions

First topic message reminder :

Trimble has started following Jacques Botes on Twitter if that means anything...?
#Geoffisbetterthantwitter

Notch wrote:Well you've already forgotten how to spell his name Aukster

stag, remember when I tipped Geoff off to your WUM and you didn't know why? This is generally why. I didn't think he would react well to his insider status being mocked. I'll miss him if he isn't going to come back. I don't blame you or Asbo for it though, forums aren't for everybody. There's a certain amount of heatedness that can come into online debates sometimes and also a certain amount of trollling that goes on. That's par for the course. I enjoy it a lot, as can be seen by my post count. Poor Geoff just wanted to chat rugby. Also he did have double standards a bit talking about Exeter in a way he'd get annoyed about if it was Asbo talking like that about Ulster. Asbo had a fair point there.

Even so, geoff- if you're lurking here we'd welcome you back. Otherwise, Stand Up For the Ulstermen and enjoy the season ahead.

I agree with that, I've bee reading and not posting for a while.

If Asbo had said the same about Ulster, Geoff would have reacted the same way, don't know what happened in the pub with Red Stag but he's normally a sound poster, so it couldn't have been that bad.

Geoff's leaks are an important part of 606v2 though, but what happened isn't worth taking a huff over.

If you enjoy posting and the chat, then yo will be back, and since he's been here from the old 606 I suspect he does enjoy the craic.

He did take a break before if anyone remembers for a few months, think we'll see that happen again, and when the season is about to start the draw to come back and talk rugby will be too much.

Notch wrote:
Poor Geoff just wanted to chat rugby. Also he did have double standards a bit talking about Exeter in a way he'd get annoyed about if it was Asbo talking like that about Ulster. Asbo had a fair point there.

Even so, geoff- if you're lurking here we'd welcome you back. Otherwise, Stand Up For the Ulstermen and enjoy the season ahead.

Geoff didn't view Ulster Rugby through rose-tinted glasses at all... If things were being done badly, he pretty much said so. Eg. Described Humph's reaction to Botha demanding more money as hypocritical in light of the way he treated Andress. No posturing, no cr@p, just interesting facts and news.

Geoff, if you want to come back and lead an Arab Spring against the ruling Gobshoite minority on here, I'm right behind you!

You're right about that man. He called it as he said it.

I don't really condone your last sentence, despite the WUMs and the heatedness that creeps into debates sometimes I think the vast majority of people are just passionate rugby fans. Not gobshoites

Agree with BelfastNI. Geoff could be scathing about Ulster when it was warranted. He levelled a lot more criticism at his "own" club than some on here would allow of theirs. I think he was very open and honest about when he was frustrated with, bewildered by, or disappointed in the powers that be in the club.

So has anyone been able to confirm if Nick Williams actually had a medical with the club or not?

If we do sign Botes, is it expected that he'll make the first XV?

Assuming all hands are available for selection....

HEC: 6. Ferris, 7. Henry, 8. Wilson
Pro 12: 6. Henry, 7. Botes, 8. Wilson

if Henry called up to Ireland squad (with Ferris):

Pro12: 6. Diack, 7. Botes, 8. Wilson

To be used in case of emergency:
Diack in place of Wilson
Birch at openside
Henderson or McComish at blindside

Seems like a nice blend of youth and experience with decent depth - however, if Henderson's future is in the second row, then we should be seeking an upgade on McComish (simply not good enough, even against below average Pro12 opposition, in my opinion).

Henderson isn't going to get much time as lock, so he should play blindside to get experience and add a lineout option. Conor Joyce deserves some time in the backrow as well. McComish isn't as bad as made out and is ok for PRO12, especially as he can play all three positions and is about 8th choice.

In descending order of importance:
Ferris, Henry, Wilson, Diack, Botes, Birch, Henderson, McComish/Joyce.

OK so this has no basis in reality but a couple of the posters on the UAFC who are usually pretty reliable (maybe one of the is the UAFC Geoff) have been talking about this:

"Seems to be a bit of chat that there has been a scouting mission in SA for IQ players, seems there are actually quite a few of them over there with parents and grandparents from here".

and this:

"SA fly half (guessing Irish qualified) being strongly linked".

I saw that too Pete. Some dude I believe is the photographer claimed something about a press conference this week. I have stopped worrying about it. Whenever humph is ready to announce something he will. Far too many rumours floating about for any clarity

Geoff is Ardglass over there I believe.

I know and it's got to the point where I am snapping at any tiny piece of bait that's dangled out there. I feel like a little kid being told about some new sweets I might be getting

Notch wrote:Geoff is Ardglass over there I believe.

If I see him posting on there I'll be telling him to get his rear end back here Notch.

Darn it, I rushed here all excited to tell people what I saw on uafc only to find pete has already posted it!

Sorry Clive, I was rushing excitedly too, I must have just wanted it more

Excited?

People can all read other forums too. And given 99% of whats on there is Poopie...

Also, I still like to believe (perhaps naively) that the majority of people dont just make stuf up for the craic. If we are said to be looking at IQ south africans, then we probably are. Whether we get one or not is where the doubt is.

Notch wrote:Excited?

People can all read other forums too. And given 99% of whats on there is Poopie...

The realistic/cynical part of me tells me that these forums do spout a load of tosh but the hopeful part of me that hungers for information on all things Ulster just wants to believe them to be fact. Even if I still know very well they aren't.

To be fair, i think the standard somewhere like SA is high enough that an unknown young player who is IQ might turn out to be a very solid Rabo player. Did anyone watch the SA Barbarians match?

Well lets face it how many of us were excited at the signing of Wannenberg?? Look how he turned out.

clivemcl wrote:Also, I still like to believe (perhaps naively) that the majority of people dont just make stuf up for the craic. If we are said to be looking at IQ south africans, then we probably are. Whether we get one or not is where the doubt is.

Well look, Rob Herring is an IQ South African and he seems very likely to be signed.

I guess your right, this is probably old info, and we already know the outcome of it!

Maybe more where he came from though, who knows?

We managed to scare off the one guy who did know the odd thing so we're all blind here

I know I'm a broken record here, but i do think the likes of Adam Darcy is a great signing. (I hope I don't speak to soon). But he seems to be a guy who is just over the moon to be a professional rugby player, taking part in training, enjoying the comradery, enjoying our country, and he has no ego that will take him off somewhere else just to get more fame/money.

I know thats based on a few assumptions without facts, but its how I see him. Remember the try v clermont at ravers when he came off the bench?

If we get more IQs like him, I'd be over the moon. Heres hoping Herring is of Darcys calibre rather than Kyriakous.

Kyriacou was a good player I thought. Had a few dodgy games but was pretty dependable by and large. I wish him well at the Blues.

Anyway, might hear some stuff about how close we are to confirming our new signings now Anscombe is here

https://twitter.com/NialFoster/status/213584405313228800/photo/1

I'm a big fan of D'arcy and he receives far too much flack on that UAFC site. I don't know what the general concensus is on here but I think he's going to be a very valuable squad player who will learn even more this season especially from Mr Payne.

Anscombe is here?
He's turned up?
Is his family with him?
His son?

Don't know about that! He's a contract with the Auckland Blues.

Seriously, would NOT like to see Gareth Anscombe at Ulster. We've just got rid of one outhalf who had conspiracy theorists saying he was only in the team because of his brother every time he had a bad game. Nonsense of course. But I'm not keen to go back to that.

Imagine if Ulster were doing really badly and Anscombe decided to stick by his son as outhalf whilst Paddy Jackson was sitting on the bench. It wouldn't take long for people all over Ireland not just Ulster to start saying it was all because his dads the coach and it's a disgrace, young Irish player not getting a fair crack...

Anscombe will get enough flak this year after the way the McLaughlin saga was treated in the media. Whether he deserves it or not the likes of Hugh Farrelly will cast him as 'the bad guy' and absolutely revel in it if he fails. He's under enough pressure without having to deal with people talking about nepotism.

Looks well in that Ulster jacket!

Good work Notch, we all have to pick of the slack now without Geoff!

If Cave gets called up to Ireland squad again, I'd like to see Payne play 13 to Give Darcy gametime he deserves.

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm a big fan of D'arcy and he receives far too much flack on that UAFC site. I don't know what the general concensus is on here but I think he's going to be a very valuable squad player who will learn even more this season especially from Mr Payne.

Anscombe is here?
He's turned up?
Is his family with him?
His son?

I hope hes kept on his phone on him!

But Pete I agree with you about D'Arcy when I think back to his first few games there were alot of errors but his games come on a lot and he was unlucky last season that Terblanche was in such good form or he probably would have played more be interesting to see how much he plays next season and if hes improved anymore

I was only kiddin about the Gareth Anscombe bit Notch

Farrelly will always write vitriolic bilge about Ulster anyway, the man has a serious anti-Ulster problem and some of the 'pieces' he's been allowed to publish were disgusting. There was some other eejit that wrote an article for the Irish Times about Ulster fans that was not just insulting but I'd have thought illegal.

Anyway I've gone off topic again

Clive, I'm doing no more or less 'work' than I always have. Ironic you say that since it's my way of not doing work.

Re. Payne at centre. What about Spence? And Farrell?

Spence deserves gametime too, and he's someone we need to develop.

I'm only just realising the strangeness of being in a group with the team we had to let wannenberg go to and the team we got his replacement from.

I'm sure Pedrie had mixed feelings when he saw the draw!

Notch wrote:

Clive, I'm doing no more or less 'work' than I always have. Ironic you say that since it's my way of not doing work.

Re. Payne at centre. What about Spence? And Farrell?

Spence deserves gametime too, and he's someone we need to develop.

Notch, Payne is an excellent 13. Arguably better than Cave. Theres no point in ignoring that for the sake of developing home grown players.

clivemcl wrote:

Notch wrote:

Clive, I'm doing no more or less 'work' than I always have. Ironic you say that since it's my way of not doing work.

Re. Payne at centre. What about Spence? And Farrell?

Spence deserves gametime too, and he's someone we need to develop.

Notch, Payne is an excellent 13. Arguably better than Cave. Theres no point in ignoring that for the sake of developing home grown players.

Arguably Clive?
Payne is amazing at 13 and was one of the form centres in his last season with the Blues. I don't think Cave is in the same league to be honest but if Jared can rub off on him at all it won't be a bad thing.

We can't be looking at Payne as a 13, not a chance. We have two IQ 13s with a shot at the Ireland shirt in the future. Spence especially needs game time this season, I still think he is better than Cave and has so much potential. D'Arcy will never be an irish player. Payne should be kept as a 15, and we should continue to develop our IQ 13s.

Sorry guys to ask what is probably a stupid question but what is the status of Payne? I was under the impression he was a project player. Is he someone the IRFU are serious about or is he merely an NIQ import with no Irish motivations?

He has a real shot at playing for the all blacks in the future. I would imagine he is just here for the 3 years then he will be heading back home. I could be wrong though. He isn't exactly a player we need to become IQ.. we have plenty of talented 13s and 15s.

Has he really any shot of playing for the All Blacks though? He would be 28 when he goes back, and by the time he does they would be building for a new World Cup cycle so does a 28/29 year old winger/full back have a chance of breaking through then? I just wondered. I'm not standing here saying he should play for Ireland, but for someone of his talent he must have at least a degree of interest to come over here in what would be his the prime of his career

D'arcy is never going to be an Irish international. Clive, I share your view of him and I worry we won't see a lot of him this year. When you consider how many scores he has a hand in it is impressive.

That being said when cave is out we need to see spence, Farrell or Marshall in, for the good of ulster and Ireland. I have been critical of spence in the past for his awareness and passing but watching the game last weekend and noting how poor Zebo, McFadden et al were in contact I can't help but wonder does his physicality mean he should be looked at. I can't say that zebo, Gilroy, o'malley would cope with that physical presence if a savea but I think spence could

I'm not saying Payne will be played at 13, if the need arises I am sure he will be but he was brought here as our full back and that's where he'll play most of his rugby. He is a project player and will be IQ so his international future may be in green depending of course on how he performs over the next 2 seasons. He has voiced his wish to play for Ireland and on the abilities I saw in the Super 15, he'd walk onto the Irish side.

Good point Hooks. One thing we know is he will be IQ by the time his contract ends whether he goes back or not. I wonder do you you have to declare yourself available, or do you just sit back and see which nation lifts the phone to you first?

I say if Ireland enquired of him, he might then try and get some info from the All Blacks management on what his chances are.

Everyone wants to play at that level, even if its another country. I dont think he would pass up the opportunity.

Also, news saying that anscombe and mcLaughlin are to meet to share thoughts. Oh to be a fly on the wall!

Standulstermen wrote:D'arcy is never going to be an Irish international. Clive, I share your view of him and I worry we won't see a lot of him this year. When you consider how many scores he has a hand in it is impressive.

That being said when cave is out we need to see spence, Farrell or Marshall in, for the good of ulster and Ireland. I have been critical of spence in the past for his awareness and passing but watching the game last weekend and noting how poor Zebo, McFadden et al were in contact I can't help but wonder does his physicality mean he should be looked at. I can't say that zebo, Gilroy, o'malley would cope with that physical presence if a savea but I think spence could

Murray, Zebo and O'Mahony got their chances for Ireland after one good season for their provinces. Spence was a huge find in his opening season, and unfortunately I think people have forgotten just how good he was. I do wonder how things would be had he actually had a shot for Ireland and been rewarded for an excellent season. His games at 12 seem to have stunted his growth somewhat, but I am hoping this season he will be back in full force, and push Cave very hard for the 13 shirt. I want to see Spence displace Cave soon.

Plus, Gilroy scored more tries in his opening season with Spence at 13, rather than this season where has has been outside Cave. I think Spence actually has very good awareness, but his confidence has taken a bit of a dent. His passing needs improvement though.

Rory I think coming back from injury didnt help Spence either and when he did he was at 12 so hopefully a full preseason and games at 13 while Cave is out of the squad and well see Spence at his best

Standulstermen wrote:D'arcy is never going to be an Irish international. Clive, I share your view of him and I worry we won't see a lot of him this year. When you consider how many scores he has a hand in it is impressive.

That being said when cave is out we need to see spence, Farrell or Marshall in, for the good of ulster and Ireland. I have been critical of spence in the past for his awareness and passing but watching the game last weekend and noting how poor Zebo, McFadden et al were in contact I can't help but wonder does his physicality mean he should be looked at. I can't say that zebo, Gilroy, o'malley would cope with that physical presence if a savea but I think spence could

Well I'm sure we may see him on the wing if Trimble/Bowe/Gilroy get called up. He's certainly good enough. I'm also not convinced that Spence is that much more talented than Darcy. Younger, I'll give you that.

Rory i think it has more to do with Gilroy being an unknown in the first season. Zebo will have a tough 2nd season coming up and he will need to develop his game. Gilroy had some poor performance but all in all for a 2nd season I think he has done really well.

In much the same way spence has had a difficult 2nd season but he hasn't been as impressive. That being said I do think the main reason he didn't see gametime last summer was the RWC buildup. Had he played the same this season I think he would have been capped.

I also agree that McLaughlin deserves criticism of throwing in spence there (amidst the many things he has been praised for I hasten to add) as I think his stint at 12 has hurt him.

This may sound a little geeky, but I would find a documentary on the internals of a sports club fascinating. I'd love to watch how a new coach integrates with a club. You know like those Airport/Airline shows.

clivemcl wrote:This may sound a little geeky, but I would find a documentary on the internals of a sports club fascinating. I'd love to watch how a new coach integrates with a club. You know like those Airport/Airline shows.

Get on to the BBC and pitch it to them never know though could be in the works Stephen Watson likes his documentaries and half time pieces

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18460528

Brief piece on the man and what he wants from Ulster doesnt give too much away but still early days

clivemcl wrote:This may sound a little geeky, but I would find a documentary on the internals of a sports club fascinating. I'd love to watch how a new coach integrates with a club. You know like those Airport/Airline shows.

Clive, try to look out a BBC documentary about QPR football club think it was called the 4 year plan. Was very good if a little heavy on the high level people, they went through about 6 managers during filming and was quite a nice little doc.

Cheers Womble, can't believe my silly idea has actually been done!

clivemcl wrote:Notch, Payne is an excellent 13. Arguably better than Cave. Theres no point in ignoring that for the sake of developing home grown players.

Woah, woah! Hold the phone. Isn't that the point of the whole shebang, the Pro12 the provinces etc? To develop players for the national team so they can not pick the guys in form and then blame their ill-fortune on the provinces?

Seriously, we're constantly bemoaning the state of Irelands centres on here with D'Arcy. You want the coach the change things? Give him options. I don't think Spence is an option at 12 long term (13 or wing for sure) but we need to get plenty of Irish lads getting gametime.