Ireland v New Zealand 2nd Test Live Match Thread

[Pal Joey]

First topic message reminder :

Venue for the 2nd test: AMI Stadium (Addington) - formerly Rugby League Park Christchurch
Capacity: 26,000 incl. temporary seating
Weather http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2192362

Current forecast for Saturday evening is around 3 degrees C and light rain.

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith
[/quote]

Irish team:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

[Biltong]

BRILLIANT PERFORMANCE IRELAND.

Any team that restricts the mighty All Blacks to scoring just one try has had a phenominal performance.

Bad luck to concede that last dropgoal, Heaslip and his chronies fronted up big time against NZ and effectively reduced them to pick and drives.

It just shows no team is impervious to a hard in your face defence.

Well done boys, nobody expected that, so damn close.

[rodders]

Rodders you have to give some credit though, because the reason NZ were all over the place, is because we didn't give them much possession. We put them under immense pressure. You are right though, it is still a loss. We aren't clinical enough. The best teams are always able to see the game through to the end, or clinch a victory just like NZ did there. We still have a lot of work to do.

No Rory I don't. We blew that. I am disgusted.

Far too many unforced errors at key times.

We should have won by 10+ points. Once again we've been found wanting. Great individual efforts all over the place, better tactics than than last week and a huge improvement but sport is about winning.

Good luck to Wales and England...

[Rory_Gallagher]

He is by and large right though, we shouldn't be happy with throwing that game away, no matter who it is against. That was our best chance of ever beating the All Blacks and we blew it. It was our game to lose, and we did. That really isn't good enough.

[doctor_grey]

Rodders has a point. We let NZ into that match. I wouldn't say that was a disaster but we should have won that game.

But I wouldn't underestimate the impact of that match.
Ireland know they could have won.
The ABs know Ireland could have won.
This is big.

[Otagolad]

Brilliant from Ireland - really feel for them. I was at Carisbrook in 1992 when it was 24-21 and this one was even closer.

I've never been a fan of BOD as I've never seen him play a big game against the AB's and as far as I'm concerned you're only any good if you perform against the best - well that second half by BOD lays that to rest, he was immense .

If Ireland could have taken that intensity and passion into the 6 Nations they would have cleaned up. Really looking forward to the 3rd test and hopefully the AB's will do some soul searching and come out firing.

Jerome Kaino, please come home.

[mystiroakey]

Rodders has a point. We let NZ into that match. I wouldn't say that was a disaster but we should have won that game.

One step at a time thommond- you have just come of a 20+ pt drubbing from england and a 30 pt drubbing from NZ. Getting annoyed and saying you shouold have won isnt gonna help(you lost the game- face facts) its all about the long game and that is a good stride. If you can only lose by 10 next game you will still be on a good track(NZ are gonna be fuming with this result- so you must expect a tougher game)

[clivemcl]

i agree with rodders to an extent. Its easy to be happy with that performance compared with what we've been watching over that past year, but ultimatly, there were countless uneccessary mistakes and errors that shouldnt be too hard to eradicate.

It is not asking too much to ask for some of those mistakes not to have occured, so fair play rodders. We could have won that.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Yeah we should have won but there's lots to improve on for the next day,namely retstarts but also scrums in the 1st half we gave away 2 freekicks and lost 2 lineouts.

The encouraging thing is we can get better,still fantastic performances from everyone D'Arcy had his best game in years.I thought McFadden and Trimble,McFadden more so.Trimble showed up more in the 2nd half and made one pass that was just fantastic.

Still we reduced NZ to a manky drop goal in the last minute for the win,it's a big step in the right direction.

[funnyExiledScot]

Cracking match.

Tough call I thought on that wheeled scrum to set up that last ABs decisive attack, could have gone either way.

Much credit to Ireland, I couldn't see them getting within a whisker of the ABs on this tour without POC, Ferris and Bowe and I was proved wrong. Hopefully they can take some confidence going into the last game.

[bedfordwelsh]

Excellent game fantastic performance by the Irish.

Heaslip was outsatnding today and long way that form continue as he's the best no8 by some considerable mile in the NH when on that form.

[GavinDragon]

just such small margins at this level, games like that hinge on one or two decisions/mistakes so frustrating for them

it just goes to show tho how one NH side can compete with NZ and the AB's didnt like it not having it their own way niggling all over the shop and mccaw constantly in refs ear,

just a 5% increase next week and ireland could take a test

[sirtidychris]

Imagine if you boys had had stephen ferris, paul o connell and tommy bowe starting....

[rodders]

Exactly Rory. Soft try conceded after half time.... restarts a disaster.

Posession deep in the opposition half, the ABs down to 14 men, 5 min to go and we let them go up the other end and score the winning drop goal....

Disaster... I can't believe people think I am on a WUM.... that is not good enough.

[doctor_grey]

Small margins: If the first drop kick wasn't touched, it would have been Ireland's ball, right? It was not going over. Then what happens?

[LeinsterFan4life]

Any scrum experts tell us if it was a penatly ?

[jamesandimac]

Commiserations Ireland, what a performance, thoroughly deserved to win that game. Thought BOD was immense, completely outclassed the NZ midfield, same for Healey, Ryan, Heaslip, O'Brien....Christ the whole pack! NZ looked lost and couldn't handle the physicality. Such a travesty.

Have to admit that I've never shouted and cheered so much for a team that wasn't England before, hope the neighbours didn't mind!

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Exactly Rory. Soft try conceded after half time.... restarts a disaster.

Posession deep in the opposition half, the ABs down to 14 men, 5 min to go and we let them go up the other end and score the winning drop goal....

Disaster... I can't believe people think I am on a WUM.... that is not good enough.

Fair enough, but Nigel Owens's borderline penalty against our dominant scrum allowed the All Blacks back into our 22. Sexton missed a 50 yard penalty. Sean O'Brien had the temerity to block down a drop kick. So is it O'Brien's fault then Rodders. You are unduly negative, embarrassingly so in this case. The restarts were an absolute shambles, the discipline wasn't good enough and the referee once again didn't stand up to their cynicism at the breakdown.

[Biltong]

Geez, you guys are negative, yeah if it wasn't for that last knock when you were on attack NZ may never had gotten into your half, the decision to kick 50 at sealevel was the incorrect one.

But surely you have to see the positives outweigh the few errors.

If you don't then you aren't giving your guys the credit they deserve.

[Fantasticbarnsmell]

Seems everyone here also missed the knock on from the AB's shortly after that scrum penalty, much like Owens did

[stormers1]

Well played Ireland, so sad that you didn't get the win.

[rodders]

Rodders has a point. We let NZ into that match. I wouldn't say that was a disaster but we should have won that game.

But I wouldn't underestimate the impact of that match.
Ireland know they could have won.
The ABs know Ireland could have won.
This is big.

Nonsence. The only thing this match does is reaffirm that the ABs can play at 50% and still beat us, that we can't play for 80min, that we lack the killer instinct to put teams away. All huff and puff.

No one should fear Ireland or respect us. We are a rugby minnow and will be out of the IRB top 10 by in 2 seasons if we keep going like this.

Fecin shambles.

[Biltong]

Any scrum experts tell us if it was a penatly ?

Yes it was, a scrum wheel has to come from the pressure the front row exerts and there is a natural wheel, you can clearly see the Irish backrow crabbing left to gain the wheel.

[SecretFly]

Ireland have a future........... and maybe certain sections of the New Zealand press might not snigger next week ...which was our duty to change, not their obligation. They (the press and some fans) could only react to what they had seen in the first week and add it to what they always expect.

That was a very emotional game for me. I've spent a long time now watching this version of Ireland and being frustrated and outright angry..but tonight I felt those emotions of deep, deep pride. Just so proud of the players who came to turn opinions in a country that can be callously dismissive of visitors who come shooting blanks.

Players like those who played for Ireland today, and ones waiting on the fringes, have the grit, the intelligence and skill enough to compete in real terms against the All Blacks and therefore against any top side in the world.

Yes, it's only progress and there are quite a number areas that need attention. Attack patterns again suffer without a dedicated backs coach...but for now, these Irish players are no longer jokes anymore in certain New Zealand perceptions. That means a lot to me because New Zealanders above all others have little reason to realistically respect sides that come visiting. I don't deny them their apathy. Irish players and fans will hold their heads up high this week in the true home of Rugby Union.

[Standulstermen]

Rodders

You have to be critical of Owens at that last set of scrums.

1. Did Mike Ross even knock it on?
2. He told weepu to get it in quicker while last week he gave a free kick to the AB's for the same offence.
3. The actual penalty is massively debatable. Healy got a drive on and it looked like Franks turned. Cute if so.

My gripe is really with the 2nd point. Last week conor Murray was pinged for not putting the ball in when the scrum went down on his side. This week the scrum was solid before going down on the other side and Owens doesnt ping it. That is shocking inconsistency from a top flight ref. I would also look again to see if there werent a couple of knock ons in the last two plays...

Anyway im sure the Kiwis will bemoan a few decisions as well and Rodders you are right in that are restarts were shockingly bad. Fair play to NZ they are the best in the world because they win these games.

[BoyneRFC]

Well well. The mighty All Blacks need the ref again to get out of jail. Has Owens forgotten the scrum laws?

Hopefully the arrogance has been knocked out of the kiwis (especially their media) and the show the rest of the world a bit of respect (70 point trashing me hole).

Some day, they will come up against a fair ref and the darlings of the world game will be on a level playing field.

[BoyneRFC]

2. He told weepu to get it in quicker while last week he gave a free kick to the AB's for the same offence.

Hear hear.

But then again, you always have one hand tied behind your back playing this lot.

Owens was a disgrace.

[rodders]

Would SA, Australia or even England be happy to lose by 3 to the ABs after leading 10 nil?.... 16 all with 5 min to go with the ABs down to 14 men?

NO.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Geez, you guys are negative, yeah if it wasn't for that last knock when you were on attack NZ may never had gotten into your half, the decision to kick 50 at sealevel was the incorrect one.

But surely you have to see the positives outweigh the few errors.

If you don't then you aren't giving your guys the credit they deserve.

Like I said credit where credit is due, we put real pressure on the best team in the world, and didn't allow them to play. However, we lost, so all in all it counts for nothing. If this leads us on an uphill curve then great, but other than that we should have won this game no matter what. We weren't able to finish the job like any of the best teams can. We blew it, so the best team did indeed win.

[Thomond]

There are a lot more positives then negatives Rodders. For feic sake no wonder people struggle to support the team! There is way too much negativity. Yes, we let the ABs into the game with our own stupid penalties but we lost by 30 points last week! It was a good performance, and I agree, we can probably do better but take some positives instead of being so negative.



Havign seen it again it was a penalty to the ABs, Healy did wheel it. I think he could have given a free kick for delayed put in but we can't have many complaints.

[Biltong]

Sorry boys, but Owens officiated this match fairly and very well, no need to look at small margins there.

[rodders]

Rodders

You have to be critical of Owens at that last set of scrums.

You could but I'd rather be critical of us for not setting up for the drop goal.

[mystiroakey]

rodders i understand how gutted you feel- in a way it hurts much more when you are close to the win or the draw. but when that hurt goes - you will understand just competiting is an immense step up.

[Standulstermen]

Sorry boys, but Owens officiated this match fairly and very well, no need to look at small margins there.

Sorry Biltong but dont pretend you would be any different. He had a decent game i agree but showed shocking inconsistency there at the end.

[doctor_grey]

Rodders has a point. We let NZ into that match. I wouldn't say that was a disaster but we should have won that game.

But I wouldn't underestimate the impact of that match.
Ireland know they could have won.
The ABs know Ireland could have won.
This is big.

Nonsence. The only thing this match does is reaffirm that the ABs can play at 50% and still beat us, that we can't play for 80min, that we lack the killer instinct to put teams away. All huff and puff.

No one should fear Ireland or respect us. We are a rugby minnow and will be out of the IRB top 10 by in 2 seasons if we keep going like this.

Fecin shambles.

Disagree. to the extent you only had 40% possession in the first half. the ABs were sloppy. Second half, after the ABs try was a strong and powerful counterpoint by Ireland.

Yes, you lost. And the point of playing is to win. So you failed.
Clearly.

But everyone on the pitch, everyone in the stadium, and everyone watching on TV know the teams were dead even on the day and Ireland could have done it.

Now, take this effort and show the world this was not a one off. And I am puling for you.

And if this was a shambles, what was the England match in the 6 Nations?

[SecretFly]

New Zealand didn't play badly. They were forced to. So if it's 50 % they were at. Ireland knocked 50% off them. That's a big turn around from last week. It is. We all expected a cricket score, let's not kid ourselves about that one.

Consistency will be needed. Next week will have to be of equal intensity. If it is, that IS developement and some players really learning quickly - education is not a dud return from a series we exected to lose anyway. Consistency will be the measure. If we play like our first game and give space to the All Blacks again to do damage then we'll be back to our issues. But it ISN'T player issues.

[Rory_Gallagher]

What good is "could have done it" though without actually doing it? We haven't ever beaten NZ and we ballsed up our best chance.

[GunsGerms]

Sorry boys, but Owens officiated this match fairly and very well, no need to look at small margins there.

I agree. He is probably the best ref in the world.

[mystiroakey]

Would SA, Australia or even England be happy to lose by 3 to the ABs after leading 10 nil?.... 16 all with 5 min to go with the ABs down to 14 men?

NO.

even england?? means??

well offcouse we wouldnt be happy- but none of us would have been beat by 30 in the previous game pal

[Biltong]

Sorry boys, but Owens officiated this match fairly and very well, no need to look at small margins there.

Sorry Biltong but dont pretend you would be any different. He had a decent game i agree but showed shocking inconsistency there at the end.

Ulsterman the only time I questioned him was when he incorrectly penalised Ireland in the last minute of the first half for sealing off at the ruck when NZ did the same thing, fortunately Carter missed the kick so it had no effect on the result, please tell me where he was inconsistent in the end?

[doctor_grey]

Sorry boys, but Owens officiated this match fairly and very well, no need to look at small margins there.

Sorry Biltong but dont pretend you would be any different. He had a decent game i agree but showed shocking inconsistency there at the end.

Owens was right about the kick being touched. Shame it happended because it would have been Ireland ball. But he got it right.

[mystiroakey]

What good is "could have done it" though without actually doing it? We haven't ever beaten NZ and we ballsed up our best chance.

defeatest attitude- your odds will have been quartered for the next game- your best chance is the next game

[Thomond]

Sorry boys, but Owens officiated this match fairly and very well, no need to look at small margins there.

I agree, Owens wasn't why we lost that game. We lost it due to poor discipline mainly. We need to match them again. We all know we can play a good game every know and then but consistency is what we want.

[Rory_Gallagher]

France "could have" beaten NZ in the world cup final, but they weren't the ones walking away as world champions.

[mystiroakey]

France "could have" beaten NZ in the world cup final, but they weren't the ones walking away as world champions.

france got to the final of the RWC

[Rory_Gallagher]

What good is "could have done it" though without actually doing it? We haven't ever beaten NZ and we ballsed up our best chance.

defeatest attitude- your odds will have been quartered for the next game- your best chance is the next game

Hardly defeatist. That was clearly our best chance yet.

[Standulstermen]

Rory

ireland are never going to have the perfect game. Missing Ferris, POC, Bowe it was even harder. There are massive things to be critical about but that interview with BOD said it all. Nobody is more gutted than the guys out there.

They will do their own video analysis and draw their own conclusions. let it be for now.

Doctor

Im not talking about the kick at the end. Spot on there. the scrum when weepu delayed the put in we got pinged for twice last week. This week he had a word with the scrum half and let them keep the ball? If that isnt really poor and obvious i dont know what is.

Anyway it is done. Other than that i thought Owens was decent.

[Rory_Gallagher]

France "could have" beaten NZ in the world cup final, but they weren't the ones walking away as world champions.

france got to the final of the RWC

Do you think afterwards they sat down and said "good job boys, unlucky about the loss but at least we got this far"?

And you call me defeatist?

[mystiroakey]

What good is "could have done it" though without actually doing it? We haven't ever beaten NZ and we ballsed up our best chance.

defeatest attitude- your odds will have been quartered for the next game- your best chance is the next game

Hardly defeatist. That was clearly our best chance yet.

Well in the eys of everyone that knows anything about rugby you had no chance pre game. Know you have a glimmer next game. Not much else you can do bar concentrate on your next game. The truth is this forum was 100% wrong in reagrds to the outcome of this game- At least you have hope again. Better to be angry and good than sad and rubbish pal

[rodders]

rodders i understand how gutted you feel- in a way it hurts much more when you are close to the win or the draw. but when that hurt goes - you will understand just competiting is an immense step up.

Mystir this reminds me of Wales v SA in the RWC... the game there for the taking but the key players just lacking composure at key times.... great effort but ultimately a loss.

Another learning curve? How many times to BOD, ROG etc. need to learn to take their points?

Why didn't we go for the lineout instead of Sexton going for a penalty clearly outside his range? Why not set up for the drop goal at the end? How many chances do we need?

Blame Owens? Sure he and the ABs handed the victory to us on a silver platter and we still couldn't take it... Feic we can't expect the ABs to score our points for us.

We didn't BELIEVE and I suspect now that we never will.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

even england?? means??

well offcouse we wouldnt be happy- but none of us would have been beat by 30 in the previous game pal

Awk go away with this nonsense. Have you a crystal ball and know that for sure? Didn't Scotland beat Australia, a team Ireland dominated in the World Cup and Wales couldn't beat them last week? It's all on the day, so leave this Six Nations infighting garbage elsewhere.

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