Ireland v New Zealand 2nd Test Live Match Thread

[Pal Joey]

First topic message reminder :

Venue for the 2nd test: AMI Stadium (Addington) - formerly Rugby League Park Christchurch
Capacity: 26,000 incl. temporary seating
Weather http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2192362

Current forecast for Saturday evening is around 3 degrees C and light rain.

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith
[/quote]

Irish team:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

[Rory_Gallagher]

Rory

ireland are never going to have the perfect game. Missing Ferris, POC, Bowe it was even harder. There are massive things to be critical about but that interview with BOD said it all. Nobody is more gutted than the guys out there.

They will do their own video analysis and draw their own conclusions. let it be for now.

Doctor

Im not talking about the kick at the end. Spot on there. the scrum when weepu delayed the put in we got pinged for twice last week. This week he had a word with the scrum half and let them keep the ball? If that isnt really poor and obvious i dont know what is.

Anyway it is done. Other than that i thought Owens was decent.

I'm not asking for perfection obviously, I'm asking for us to win the games. We should have won that, and we blew it.

[doctor_grey]

Rory

ireland are never going to have the perfect game. Missing Ferris, POC, Bowe it was even harder. There are massive things to be critical about but that interview with BOD said it all. Nobody is more gutted than the guys out there.

They will do their own video analysis and draw their own conclusions. let it be for now.

Doctor

Im not talking about the kick at the end. Spot on there. the scrum when weepu delayed the put in we got pinged for twice last week. This week he had a word with the scrum half and let them keep the ball? If that isnt really poor and obvious i dont know what is.

Anyway it is done. Other than that i thought Owens was decent.

Gotcha, mate. I think I am with you on that.

Its just.....just,,,,,so close. We could tatse it. Makes it harder, right?

[Rory_Gallagher]

How was anyone 100% wrong about the outcome of this game? New Zealand won!

[rodders]

Rory

ireland are never going to have the perfect game. Missing Ferris, POC, Bowe it was even harder. There are massive things to be critical about but that interview with BOD said it all. Nobody is more gutted than the guys out there.

They will do their own video analysis and draw their own conclusions. let it be for now.

Good for BOD, maybe he shouldn't kick the ball down the opposition's throat then, show leadership when it's needed.

He should feel gutted, he's heavily to blame for the defeat and he knows it.

[mystiroakey]

even england?? means??

well offcouse we wouldnt be happy- but none of us would have been beat by 30 in the previous game pal

Awk go away with this nonsense. Have you a crystal ball and know that for sure? Didn't Scotland beat Australia, a team Ireland dominated in the World Cup and Wales couldn't beat them last week? It's all on the day, so leave this Six Nations infighting garbage elsewhere.

no infigthing from me- i didnt bring it up.. If you wanna turn this into something it clearly isnt then go ahead- leave me out of it. teams are allways rated on there last game!

[Standulstermen]

Ah of course it does Doc.

Anyway i've vented enough. Off to enjoy Wales v Oz.

Cheer up lads. Im over it. But next time i see nigel at ravenhill!!!!!!

lol

[mystiroakey]

How was anyone 100% wrong about the outcome of this game? New Zealand won!

come on you know what i meant pal..

[rodders]

...anyways time for the Welsh to show us how it should be done .

[Biltong]

Rory mate, at least this time your frustration is because you could have won that match, a far cry from frustration born out of despair.

[blackcanelion]

Just called the ambulance. I hope they have a defibrillator. Obviously happy we won, but thought we would lose it at various times.

The Irish boys will be gutted they lost, as they had chances to put pressure on for a win. They said they were looking for improvement at the ruck and a better kick chase game and they delivered. The added experience of Healy et al had a real impact. They controlled the tempo of the game and were at their niggly best (reminded me of Irish sides of the past. The series is gone but they can look forward with confidence.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

...anyways time for the Welsh to show us how it should be done .

True, on their day they can blow their chance to beat anyone better than Ireland

[mystiroakey]

...anyways time for the Welsh to show us how it should be done .

True, on their day they can blow their chance to beat anyone better than Ireland

hehe

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Mystir this reminds me of Wales v SA in the RWC... the game there for the taking but the key players just lacking composure at key times.... great effort but ultimately a loss.

Another learning curve? How many times to BOD, ROG etc. need to learn to take their points?

Why didn't we go for the lineout instead of Sexton going for a penalty clearly outside his range? Why not set up for the drop goal at the end? How many chances do we need?

Blame Owens? Sure he and the ABs handed the victory to us on a silver platter and we still couldn't take it... Feic we can't expect the ABs to score our points for us.

We didn't BELIEVE and I suspect now that we never will.

How about because Sexton believes it was in his range and we have all seen him kick those over before? How about not setting up for a drop goal because the players felt they could gain a penalty as they had a couple of minutes before from a dominant scrum? The fact that Sexton and the players backed themselves showed that they did in fact 'believe'. I hope you look back on these comments when you have cooled down and realise that Ireland didn't allow New Zealand to play, and Ireland deserve credit in that respect. No one should be happy with a loss, but should have some satisfaction that we improved from last week. Its no consolation to me. But to suggest that we only had a chance because New Zealand and/or the referee 'handed the victory to us on a silver platter' is garbage. I expect better of our fans than to refuse to give our players a degree of credit and focus purely on the negatives. We must do better, we have shown we can do better. But if we can only win because of the opposition of the referee then why are you even here?

[Guest]

Did owens miss knock ons before awarding a pen in the lead up to the Irish try? What was the pen for?

[SecretFly]

What good is "could have done it" though without actually doing it? We haven't ever beaten NZ and we ballsed up our best chance.

Yes Rory, we ballsed it - in the back yard of the world champions...and even more pointedly, the All Blacks. We ballsed it. But to say that was our best chance lost is already to be mentally capitulating about the final game. Our best chance is now the next game. Just because this was a great attempt doesn't mean the next game has to be back to normal. If that's what we expect then that's just acknowledging our continuing problem that bedevils us - lack of consistency.

But given that that is the main issue Ireland is trying to deal with - stringing top International class performances together in a sequence, that game today is our next chance to improve on that one.

A great win today would have been excellent BUT would we have then rested and give excuses to our players that "the effort of the win will mean we will hardly compete in the last game - injury, fatigue, end-of-season hunger for holidays...one win a good return....if we play badly we still have our win under our belt" Is that what we'd all be saying?

My priority now to to see Irish players realise that's test rugby standards at the highest level and it needs to be repeated every time you wear green. Everytime - with no excuses about fatigue, injury or being too happy with a win to care about the next effort. Next game is Ireland's future now, not lamenting this one.

[mystiroakey]

What good is "could have done it" though without actually doing it? We haven't ever beaten NZ and we ballsed up our best chance.

Yes Rory, we ballsed it - in the back yard of the world champions...and even more pointedly, the All Blacks. We ballsed it. But to say that was our best chance lost is already to be mentally capitulating about the final game. Our best chance is now the next game. Just because this was a great attempt doesn't mean the next game has to be back to normal. If that's what we expect then that's just acknowledging our continuing problem that bedevils us - lack of consistency.

But given that that is the main issue Ireland is trying to deal with - stringing top International class performances together in a sequence, that game today is our next chance to improve on that one.

A great win today would have been excellent BUT would we have then rested and give excuses to our players that "the effort of the win will mean we will hardly compete in the last game - injury, fatigue, end-of-season hunger for holidays...one win a good return....if we play badly we still have our win under our belt" Is that what we'd all be saying?

My priority now to to see Irish players realise that's test rugby standards at the highest level and it needs to be repeated every time you wear green. Everytime - with no excuses about fatigue, injury or being too happy with a win to care about the next effort. Next game is Ireland's future now, not lamenting this one.

good attitude pal- onwards and upwards

[rodders]

Hookie please don't twist my words man.

You know as well as I do that the ABs were not at their best today...yes a lot of that was down to us but we will very unlikely get a chance like that again...

We took the wrong options at the end. That is why we lost. Same against Wales and France in the 6N, we've lost the ability to win these tight games.

There are positives to take from that performance but overall that is not good enough from us again and yet another loss against us.

[rodders]

Oh and we can win the final test but I expect the ABs will play much better so we will need to too.

[Suspicious lurker]

Jesus lads just had to walk to putney to go to work, but Christ I needed that to clear my head, I'm utterly utterly devastated this was the real big chance today. So proud of the lads they really really stood up this morning and I was honestly close to tears at the final whistle

[blackcanelion]

I'm going to say that I think Owens struggled for the second weekend in a row. Not the worst I've seen, but struggling. I think both sides were frustrated with him. I think that after the Irish try the All Blacks changed their approach and and played a more conservative game plan. Mt feeling at the time was this was as much to take Owens out of the game as it was to do with addressing the Irish, or their own lack of accuracy. I think in the past we would have lost this game.

[mystiroakey]

Oh and we can win the final test but I expect the ABs will play much better so we will need to too.

I agree the AB's will be betterl- however this now is the best chance you have ever had pre game to beat them. If you do the same again- then rant all you want(lose with an extra man from a drawing position). but you have another shot at this. be positive - Your team has played well enough to give you fans the right to be. That in itself is something

[emack2]

Great match,just what you expect from the Irish just what the AllBlacks needed
a tough workout pre-4Ns.Great!!! When it comes down to an arm wrestle experience from the bench is invaluable.Dan the Man AGAIN!! and a droppie too!!.NO side can lose the experience of 4 players with about 300 caps between them and replace them just like that.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Hookie please don't twist my words man.

You know as well as I do that the ABs were not at their best today...yes a lot of that was down to us but we will very unlikely get a chance like that again...

We took the wrong options at the end. That is why we lost. Same against Wales and France in the 6N, we've lost the ability to win these tight games.

There are positives to take from that performance but overall that is not good enough from us again and yet another loss against us.

Don't 'man' me honky.

Our performance was good enough to win. Why? Because we nearly won! Ok, Maybe I should rephrase that. Our performance was almost good enough to win. If we play that that in the pack then we will get a chance like that again. New Zealand made some errors, but make no mistake about our, our pack won the battle of the breakdown again and even more convincingly than last week. The difference was last week was speed, defence and belief in the backs.

But did we really take the wrong options in the end? Or are they only wrong in hindsight? There is a huge difference between the two.

You are being too negative, but I largely agree with you. Restarts are an utter shambles and the discipline at the end of the first half was not good enough. Too many cheap penalties in that part of the match. You have to make the All Blacks earn their points and practically all of theirs were cheap. We lost the game there, no Sexton's penalty, the scrum at the end, or the top of Sean O'Brien's fingers. Damn him and his large farmer hands!

[Guest]

We'll said SF, respect mate

[aucklandlaurie]

All you irish supporters should be very proud of your teams performance tonight, No the ABs did not play as well as they can, but reality is they werent allowed to.

The Irish forwards in the first half improved their accuracy, urgency and held their d line a 1000% better then they did last week.
I cant recall McCaw making so many mistakes in a match for a long time and there was a reason for that.
By the way what do you guys think of our new openside flanker?

[rodders]

Apologies Hook. No disrespect intended.

No I thought we should have went for the lineout when we had the penalty... it was a long way out and the ABs were down to 14. Throw to the front, use the maul and then set for the DG.We took the wrong option, Sexton does not have that sort of range.

We luckily got a second chance to set for the DG after but Reddan went wide, which led to the final series of scrums, which ultimately cost us the game.

Nit picking maybe but the margins are so small at this level.

Fantastic effort, no question..... but ultimately not good enough again.

[SecretFly]

Oh and we can win the final test but I expect the ABs will play much better so we will need to too.

I just can't agree with the idea that New Zealand played badly, Rodders. My emphasis would be very different. You play badly, like Ireland last week (and often) if you're the weaker team. But you also play 'badly' when a better side knows your tricks and neutralises you. That's playing badly, yes - but it's caused by another side playing better or stopping you playing. That's the object of the game of rugby.

Had ABs been given the open invitation to play out of their socks like the first test, then of course they would have played equally well again this morning. They weren't given that option today. They tried and were repulsed. Their rhythm was killed not by them having an off day but by Irish pressure.

Had Ireland played last week like today then even an All Blacks, that everyone says played exceptionally that day, wouldn't have benefitted so much from their 'top game' performance. So Ireland were the deciding factor.

Good performance - it's all I truly looked for in this series. One game nothing.... one game hope. Two strong performances and yes, even a win, would make me happy. This IS invaluable experience for some of the players playing the world champions in their own back yard. But it is only invaluable if you can see they are truly learning. On this performance - they are.

[Golden]

I FEICIN MISSED IT!!!!

GOD DAM USELESS ALARM CLOCK!

Anyone know what the first site is that will have the match or even the highlights??

[asoreleftshoulder]

I FEICIN MISSED IT!!!!

GOD DAM USELESS ALARM CLOCK!

Anyone know what the first site is that will have the match or even the highlights??

You poor feicer you missed a good one ,I'd try across the tasman for the full match.It should be up pretty quickly.

[Duty281]

Unlucky Ireland, that's all I gotta say. So, so close.

[The Great Aukster]

I agree the AB's will be betterl- however this now is the best chance you have ever had pre game to beat them. If you do the same again- then rant all you want(lose with an extra man from a drawing position). but you have another shot at this. be positive - Your team has played well enough to give you fans the right to be. That in itself is something

Some posters really don't have a clue about Irish Rugby.

This was a tremendous performance by Ireland, but not the only one. Some of the players are really top class but unfortunately there's just not enough of them and the bench was weak when it needed to have impact. With largely the same players, why did Ireland not have this performance last week. Ireland went into the first Test ill prepared with the wrong strategy and were only stung into changing it by the scoreline last week. Kidney really needs to now win the last Test to keep his job.

[Rory_Gallagher]

All you irish supporters should be very proud of your teams performance tonight, No the ABs did not play as well as they can, but reality is they werent allowed to.

The Irish forwards in the first half improved their accuracy, urgency and held their d line a 1000% better then they did last week.
I cant recall McCaw making so many mistakes in a match for a long time and there was a reason for that.
By the way what do you guys think of our new openside flanker?

I didn't see Cane much at the breakdown, but he was pretty handy in the loose. Had an industrious second half.

[rodders]

Fair enough Fly...it comes down to expectation I suppose.

I genuinely believed we could win last week and I did this week too. Had zero doubt about that. I don't believe this is a great All black side, a good one yes but very beatable.

We've lost both games and thus the series, despite dominating the key areas of the game for long periods.... making countless unforced errors in the process and I'm extremely disappointed. Lack of composure at key times...same old story.

There are positives of course. Some monumental individual displays... SOB, Ryan, Best, Heaslip, McLaughlin in particular...but sport is about winning and we've lost yet again.

Next game is a dead rubber in terms of the series but we must kick on and show the same level of improvement again...try and put an end to this awful run of defeats, go out with bang and show we are still a top tier Nation.

[mystiroakey]

I agree the AB's will be betterl- however this now is the best chance you have ever had pre game to beat them. If you do the same again- then rant all you want(lose with an extra man from a drawing position). but you have another shot at this. be positive - Your team has played well enough to give you fans the right to be. That in itself is something

Some posters really don't have a clue about Irish Rugby.

This was a tremendous performance by Ireland, but not the only one. Some of the players are really top class but unfortunately there's just not enough of them and the bench was weak when it needed to have impact. With largely the same players, why did Ireland not have this performance last week. Ireland went into the first Test ill prepared with the wrong strategy and were only stung into changing it by the scoreline last week. Kidney really needs to now win the last Test to keep his job.

auckster what are you talking about- how does any of my post realte to yours.I think its you that doesnt have a scooby pal- And if you cant interact in a decent way just dont talk to me

[Rory_Gallagher]

Watching the Wales game here and holy crap I have no idea how they get away with being so offside!

I don't think they have been on their feet once at the breakdown either.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Hookie please don't twist my words man.

You know as well as I do that the ABs were not at their best today...yes a lot of that was down to us but we will very unlikely get a chance like that again...

We took the wrong options at the end. That is why we lost. Same against Wales and France in the 6N, we've lost the ability to win these tight games.

There are positives to take from that performance but overall that is not good enough from us again and yet another loss against us.

I think that's very harsh rodders.

I don't think that performance was anything like the Welsh or French games in the 6N.This game we played well for 80 minutes and okay we weren't perfect but we were damn good.The 6N games we were crap for both those games,our defense against Wales was weak and passive,we also kicked badly and often in both those games.

This game was a huge improvement and while a loss is disappointing there are reasons to be encouraged,there were no reasons to be encouraged after the 6N games.

[Biltong]

Strange, there were less division amngst the Irish when they lost by 32 points.

[logie28]

Rodders, I usually agree with most of what you have to say, but think you are way out of line today. Words like disgrace and shambles should be no where near this thread.

Disappointment should be, certainly frustration, but also pride and above all respect, for the efforts of both teams.

Using a word like disgrace after the performance that Irish squad put in today, even if not used in a personal manner, is harsh in the extreme.

I hope time allows you to gain some perspective, and you'll see that this game has shown what this Irish squad can do, will hopefully help build confidence long term, and help to get the team playing consistently in the manner we all believe they should be.

Of course I'm not happy with the result, history was at the tip of their fingers, but congratulations NZ, and Ireland, good improvement, now believe in yourselves land push on!

[Rory_Gallagher]

Strange, there were less division amngst the Irish when they lost by 32 points.

There was? The irish threads have been hell this week.

[rodders]

No I don't agree with that asore... this was very much like the 6N performances... once again this shows we can't perform for 80 min.

Last week we performed for 30 min...this week for 70 min...huge improvement but next week we need to see an 80 min performance.

We can't brush over the faults though. Two weeks running the restarts were a shambles. Defensively we held our line much better but why did we kick so much last week?

Great effort for sure but if we want to actually win these games then we need to be critical.

[SecretFly]

Next game is a dead rubber in terms of the series but we must kick on and show the same level of improvement again...try and put an end to this awful run of defeats, go out with bang and show we are still a top tier Nation.

Agree with all that Yes, consistency will be the true test of the series. Before this game, we didn't even have that option open to us, even though as I continue to say, that's our major issue - playing with consistent intensity at International level.

Now - even though we lost the series (expected) we now have a target on the agenda again. Actually two of them. Another real chance for that FIRST win against the mighty All Blacks, and what a major psychological boost that will be when it eventually comes. But we also now have the target of seeing is this side ready to infuse consistency into the mix. They have ingredients in players (can hold their own with any players in Europe) now are they ready to claim that doing it in every game is achievable. It should be - we demand it of our Internationals.

I'll go back to the quote I made a few weeks ago from Brian Moore. He said the Irish players have the capacity to be fighting for the very top prizes in International, they need to go prove it in intent and self belief.

[rodders]

I'll go back to the quote I made a few weeks ago from Brian Moore. He said the Irish players have the capacity to be fighting for the very top prizes in International, they need to go prove it in intent and self belief.

We do have the capacity Fly, we always have.... so why do you say it was expected that we would lose the series? I didn't expect that?

Belief is our biggest weakness, today reinforced it... on top in the scrums, tackled our hearts out... BUT just couldn't put the points on the board when we needed to.

[SecretFly]

Strange, there were less division amngst the Irish when they lost by 32 points.

Haven't you worked it out yet, Biltong???? The Irish are perfectionists. That's not a joke BTW.

A perfectionist isn't someone who always or even comes close to achieving perfection. It's simply the desire to, the need to always find fault with what's going down, the burning frustration with the 'present' of anything. We are the most talkative, we are more heavily into current-affairs, politics etc, etc than perhaps any other Europeans. We talk to sort things out...and, as you say, we drift a lot in doing so (off-topic topics)

So yes, we're never happy. If someone is happy, that's just a topic that needs more clarity from the inquisitors!

[Biltong]

Reminds me of my sister, she's not happy unless seh's unhappy.

[rodders]

ROG played very well I have to say .... we'd probably have won by 12 pts if Madigan was on the bench.... but it was still a fine performance by ROG..

[asoreleftshoulder]

No I don't agree with that asore... this was very much like the 6N performances... once again this shows we can't perform for 80 min.

Last week we performed for 30 min...this week for 70 min...huge improvement but next week we need to see an 80 min performance.

We can't brush over the faults though. Two weeks running the restarts were a shambles. Defensively we held our line much better but why did we kick so much last week?

Great effort for sure but if we want to actually win these games then we need to be critical.

Well my perspective in the 6N was that we never performed for more than 40 minutes,there were massive areas to improve on and we never looked like we learned our lessons.This game we did learn from last week and we did play well,okay there is still some areas we can get better but not many.

When you have small things to work on then you can work hard at them and nail them whereas after the 6 N games and last week our entire game needed an overhaul.

Yes I agree it was a great effort and we need to improve to win but even that st line shows your stance has softened from what you were posting earlier.Look know you want us to win but these games but what I want next week is a similar performance,I'd even be okay with losing if we showed we could string 2 really good performances together as that has been missing from Kidneys Ireland.

[SecretFly]

[b]We do have the capacity Fly, we always have.... so why do you say it was expected that we would lose the series? I didn't expect that?

Given all my comments on Kidney and co over the years was it truly a mystery that I had doubts about winning a series against the AB who are at home? I'm an optimist but on the evidence of performances and that lack of consistency, I'm also a bloody deadbeat realist too!

BUT.... the bit in bold - if it truly IS what you believe, and I do believe it - then next time is an equal opportunity. If we 'always have' then we 'always can'. Some comments post match suggest we lost our one chance to 'always can'. 'Always Can' won't happen until it.................... turns into 'Just did'.

I can't wish a win on the Irish squad. All I can do is hope and spot improvements. In this game I did - obviously. Now it needs a rubberstamp with a similar if not better performance next week.

[Notch]

ROG and D'Arcy played well, very well. Murray did too. It was a pleasing reaction from those guys. I was quite unimpressed when Kidney made the pre-planned ROG substitution but it actually worked very well this time.

McLaughlin should stay for the third test. Heaslip upped his game and Best was everywhere. No changes in the pack. McFadden... still not convinced? Switch Trimble (who was disappointingly quiet though played well when the game opened up) to his wing and bring back Zebo.

The performance was better than I could have hoped for but there was a lack of the clinical edge that is the difference between winners and also-rans. Thats why the All Blacks deserved it. We played better than them on the day but they have the bigger balls. All in all, I'm not going to pretend to be happy with a defeat. I would say that the performance is hugely encouraging but it's still just a one off until its backed up, like all our other good one-offs. Consistency is what needs to be delivered.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

I thought Rory Best's performance today was the best by any individual in a green shirt since Neil Best against New Zealand in 2002 (ish)

[mystiroakey]

hyperbole maybe

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