Ireland v New Zealand 2nd Test Live Match Thread

[Pal Joey]

First topic message reminder :

Venue for the 2nd test: AMI Stadium (Addington) - formerly Rugby League Park Christchurch
Capacity: 26,000 incl. temporary seating
Weather http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2192362

Current forecast for Saturday evening is around 3 degrees C and light rain.

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith
[/quote]

Irish team:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

[clivemcl]

Pete I would hope he views the nation as more than an "employer".

Honest to god if he was moaning and grumbling in that manner I would never want to see he play for Ireland again.

How long does he have left to play for Ireland? 12-18 months maybe. He should be welcoming the chance.

Come on Stag, you are responding to people saying "if I were Paddy" type comments. There is no evidence to suggest what paddy actually feels. He might well be delighted. You have just seen this as another opportunity to speak about him in a negative manner.

And lets be honest, this is part of the background which contributes to the attitudes of guys like Pete who feel we have a duty to defend Paddy because for all his service to international rugby, you have to admit, he hasn't received much love...

[red_stag]

Clive - How am I speaking in a negative manner about Paddy Wallace. I believe he will show his country 100% commitment.

[Notch]

Come on Stag, you are responding to people saying "if I were Paddy" type comments. There is no evidence to suggest what paddy actually feels. He might well be delighted. You have just seen this as another opportunity to speak about him in a negative manner.

Not sure if you're serious there

[rodders]

Tis fair enough but personally, whether on standby or not I'd feel a little hard done by if I was called away from a rare family holiday by Dekkie Kidney to hold tackle bags. Just an opinion, I'm not saying I'm right so there's no need to be dumbfounded about it.

Oh and the IRFU or Dekkie Kidney is hardly the nation Staggy.

Look sorry Pete, I'm not having a go..you're entitled to your opinion. I just think you are projecting your own feelings onto Paddy.

He's a pro, a committed player, an athlete. Yes of course no one wants to miss family time but its part of the deal. It'll be water off a ducks back to Paddy ...I bet he can't wait to get out there. It's a short career and you don't get many chances to represent your country, in any capacity.

Again thats just my opinion, but thats how I would feel in his, or any other players, shoes

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Can I just ask why this is even part of the discussion? Has Wallace actually said something in public about being called up or are people just wildly speculating?

I just don't get the anti-Wallace agenda from some supporters (I'm not pointing any fingers to people in here, I'm talking in general). It is just another example of what I can only describe as 'Owen Hargreaves syndrome', where a player is constantly picked on the bench and fans don't understand why he's there if he doesn't start and so have a totally irrational hatred towards him. Apart from butchering a try against Wales what has he actually done wrong when he has stepped onto the field in a green shirt?

[Sin é]

Paddy will be given time off to make up for his time in NZ, so his family shouldn't suffer too much.

Think of O'Gara - his Mrs is just about to give birth and he is out in NZ bench warming.

[Pete330v2]

Paddy will be given time off to make up for his time in NZ, so his family shouldn't suffer too much.

Think of O'Gara - his Mrs is just about to give birth and he is out in NZ bench warming.

I'm pretty sure I saw him playing some rugby

[Pete330v2]

Tis fair enough but personally, whether on standby or not I'd feel a little hard done by if I was called away from a rare family holiday by Dekkie Kidney to hold tackle bags. Just an opinion, I'm not saying I'm right so there's no need to be dumbfounded about it.

Oh and the IRFU or Dekkie Kidney is hardly the nation Staggy.

Look sorry Pete, I'm not having a go..you're entitled to your opinion. I just think you are projecting your own feelings onto Paddy.

He's a pro, a committed player, an athlete. Yes of course no one wants to miss family time but its part of the deal. It'll be water off a ducks back to Paddy ...I bet he can't wait to get out there. It's a short career and you don't get many chances to represent your country, in any capacity.

Again thats just my opinion, but thats how I would feel in his, or any other players, shoes

No need for apologies Rodders, it's all about opinions. We differ and will have to agree to differ. I just know if I had a boss like DK I'd be miffed..........hold on I do

[Sin é]

Paddy will be given time off to make up for his time in NZ, so his family shouldn't suffer too much.

Think of O'Gara - his Mrs is just about to give birth and he is out in NZ bench warming.

I'm pretty sure I saw him playing some rugby

I'm pretty sure I saw him mainly sitting on the bench (i.e., bench warming). Tough on his wife, this is the 2nd time that O'Gara has ended up in NZ when she is about to give birth.

[red_stag]

Im still confused about how I turned this into another chance to speak in a negative manner about Wallace?

[rodders]

Paddy will be given time off to make up for his time in NZ, so his family shouldn't suffer too much.

Think of O'Gara - his Mrs is just about to give birth and he is out in NZ bench warming.

.....

[rodders]

Im still confused about how I turned this into another chance to speak in a negative manner about Wallace?

You didn't .

Pete, Hook

Sin ... buy your own drink...

[Mickado]

So!
Team for Saturday then.

Healy – Best – Ross
Ryan – Tuohy
McLaughlin – O’Mahoney – O’Brien
Murray – Sexton
Trimble – Wallace – BOD – McFadden
Kearney

Cronin – Fitzpatrick – DOC – Henry – Reddan – ROG – Zebo

Any chance Earls will be fit? If so he’d offer plenty of options from the bench.

[clivemcl]

Clive - How am I speaking in a negative manner about Paddy Wallace. I believe he will show his country 100% commitment.

Stag, this is strong language
"Honest to god if he was moaning and grumbling in that manner I would never want to see he play for Ireland again."

Considering you dont believe he lacks commitment.

If you think Petes wrong, say "Pete, youre wrong", theres no need for "If Paddy did think like that, then he doesnt deserve the shirt" stuff.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Paddy will be given time off to make up for his time in NZ, so his family shouldn't suffer too much.

Think of O'Gara - his Mrs is just about to give birth and he is out in NZ bench warming.

Don't forget about Amy Huberman

[Mickado]

Paddy will be given time off to make up for his time in NZ, so his family shouldn't suffer too much.

Think of O'Gara - his Mrs is just about to give birth and he is out in NZ bench warming.

Don't forget about Amy Huberman

Jesus, how could we.

[red_stag]

Clive - I think it was very clear that I felt Pete was wrong and that Wallace would not view things in that manner. I think you have jumped to a very strange conclusion. Certainly nobody else has arrived at that one.

Mick am I right in assuming that Earls, Darcy and Heaslip are missing. I agree with your team though O'Driscoll-Cave is a promising centre pairing also.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

So!
Team for Saturday then.

Healy – Best – Ross
Ryan – Tuohy
McLaughlin – O’Mahoney – O’Brien
Murray – Sexton
Trimble – Wallace – BOD – McFadden
Kearney

Cronin – Fitzpatrick – DOC – Henry – Reddan – ROG – Zebo

Any chance Earls will be fit? If so he’d offer plenty of options from the bench.

Who does Darren Cave need to sex up to get a chance? I said this last week but it is even more imperative this week. Cave gets, what, ten minutes in the first side in a team demoralised and hammered, he didn't do great, and now can't even get in the team when two other centres go down injured? Cave was the form 13 in Ireland (until BOD in the Heineken Cup final), and even when Ulster were being well beaten he had a pretty good game. He has more than merited a shot at a run out in green. I'd also give Zebo another start in front of McFaddan.

[Pete330v2]

Paddy will be given time off to make up for his time in NZ, so his family shouldn't suffer too much.

Think of O'Gara - his Mrs is just about to give birth and he is out in NZ bench warming.

I'm pretty sure I saw him playing some rugby

I'm pretty sure I saw him mainly sitting on the bench (i.e., bench warming). Tough on his wife, this is the 2nd time that O'Gara has ended up in NZ when she is about to give birth.

I'm pretty sure he was in the original tour squad, not flown out for the final week.

[Mickado]

I don’t think O’Driscoll did well at 12 in the first test so to play Cave we’ve to play our best center out of position.

[clivemcl]

Clive - I think it was very clear that I felt Pete was wrong and that Wallace would not view things in that manner. I think you have jumped to a very strange conclusion. Certainly nobody else has arrived at that one.

Mick am I right in assuming that Earls, Darcy and Heaslip are missing. I agree with your team though O'Driscoll-Cave is a promising centre pairing also.

You gave credence to his suggestion my giving your proposed reaction to the suggestion instead of just saying "not possible". Everyone else said, dont be silly, hes professional. To me, you seemed to consider the likelihood.

Apologies, if I'm wrong.

[Notch]

Can I just ask why this is even part of the discussion? Has Wallace actually said something in public about being called up or are people just wildly speculating?

What do you think?

[red_stag]

Would you say the same if it was the Lions, Pete.

Australia 2-0 British & Irish Lions

3rd Test, nothing to play for a few injuries have crept in and <insertplayername> gets a phone call on the beach with their family. The head coach tells him to drop everything and get on the plan to Australia but that he will be a backup and won't get any gametime.

Does he turn it down? Is it unfair?

Clive - no bother pal but thats nowhere near what I was suggesting.

[clivemcl]

I don’t think O’Driscoll did well at 12 in the first test so to play Cave we’ve to play our best center out of position.

The only better combination though is Wallace at 12, and lets be honest, theres no point flogging a dead donkey. We are in danger again of glory hunting after last week rather than remembering we are meant to be developing a squad. If Cave wasnt good enough to be considered in case of injury, then why wasnt Paddy brought to NZ instead of him to start with.

[red_stag]

I havent seen too many suggestions for McFadden and O'Driscoll in the midfield with Zebo, Kearney and Trimble in the back three.

[Pete330v2]

Can I just ask why this is even part of the discussion? Has Wallace actually said something in public about being called up or are people just wildly speculating?

What do you think?

No he didn't, I simply put forward my opinion that it was a little unfair to remove him from a family holiday to fly him out to the final week of a tour in which he most likely won't feature anyway either in the starting XV or the bench.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

I havent seen too many suggestions for McFadden and O'Driscoll in the midfield with Zebo, Kearney and Trimble in the back three.

That's because we want to win Stag. Oh no he didn't! Yes Stag, I did.

[rodders]

I havent seen too many suggestions for McFadden and O'Driscoll in the midfield with Zebo, Kearney and Trimble in the back three.

You got me on the foe list again stag?

Yeah I'd be tempted to go with that but believe Earls will start if fit, probably at centre again.

[Notch]

I still feel that Wallace is a better 12 than McFadden though. I'm in favour of trying BOD at 12 again (and either Cave or Earls) but after that with D'Arcy out, it would have to be Wallace really.

I want;

12. BOD
13. Earls/Cave

22. Wallace

[rodders]

I don’t think O’Driscoll did well at 12 in the first test so to play Cave we’ve to play our best center out of position.

Hmm I think he did ok, Earls misread a few of his attempted offloads and the defence got sucked too narrow but I'd point the finger more at Earls and the players outside him for not organising the defensive line and fanning out. BOD did ok but the units didn't funtion as well.

What a lot of people don't seem to have discussed is that BOD played 12 and Sexton 13for most of the 2nd half and did very well last week. They swapped a few times but from the set plays BOD was inside sexton and in inspired form, as was Sexton.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Can I just ask another question here lads. For arguments sake if we win (I don't think we will in truth) does that give Kidney a stay of execution. It seems that one big performance a season is the MO of this Irish side. If we lose does anyone think the IRFU will actually make a change, or are we stuck with him for the Six Nations?

[red_stag]

For what its worth I find McFadden very over rated. I would prefer Wallace over McFadden personally and also BOD-Cave.

[clivemcl]

Whats people opinions though, given the injury, even if playing Paddy means the team is stronger do we do it? Is it worth winning the last game of a losing test series, to play a player who is supposed to be on his way out (and many thought he was already gone).

I think we should play either Cave or Earls and hope its an improvement on the first test even if it turns out to be worse than the second test.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I havent seen too many suggestions for McFadden and O'Driscoll in the midfield with Zebo, Kearney and Trimble in the back three.

That is what I'd go for, I think Ferg is a stronger (physically) defender than Paddy and we will need that to sure up the midfield again. Plus plenty of experience with Sexton and BOD.

That would be my call anyway.

[clivemcl]

What a lot of people don't seem to have discussed is that BOD played 12 and Sexton 13for most of the 2nd half and did very well last week. They swapped a few times but from the set plays BOD was inside sexton and in inspired form, as was Sexton.

So your saying paddy Wallace is coming in to play 10?







...only joking!

[red_stag]

Hook, although I think he has out lived his usefulness to I feel if we beat New Zealand I would be happy for him to stay in a job and see out his contract.

I do feel regardless of scoreline we are stuck with him for the next 12 months.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Personally I'd go left field and put ROG at 12. If Sexton can do it why can't the Munster man. That would make a juicy match up between him and SBW but it's one in which ROG can come up trumps. I'm serious. Spread the word. Make this known to Kidney. It's Ireland's only hope...

[rodders]

I just want minimal disruption. Last week we produced a gameplan and perfromance that caused the ABs no end of trouble from start to finish.

If we can replicate it and tighten up on a few areas and cut down the individual errors then I am 100% certain we can win against an AB side badly missing the steel of Thorn and Kaino on Saturday.

Don't want to even contemplate building a squad or what happens Kidney right now. I just want us to batter the ABs from pillar to post and have more points on the board after the 80min. Everything else can wait.

Believe!

[red_stag]

I just want minimal disruption. Last week we produced a gameplan and perfromance that caused the ABs no end of trouble from start to finish.

If we can replicate it and tighten up on a few areas and cut down the individual errors then I am 100% certain we can win against an AB side badly missing the steel of Thorn and Kaino on Saturday.

Don't want to even contemplate building a squad or what happens Kidney right now. I just want us to batter the ABs from pillar to post and have more points on the board after the 80min. Everything else can wait.

Believe!

Seriously great post.

[Mickado]

I just want minimal disruption. Last week we produced a gameplan and perfromance that caused the ABs no end of trouble from start to finish.

If we can replicate it and tighten up on a few areas and cut down the individual errors then I am 100% certain we can win against an AB side badly missing the steel of Thorn and Kaino on Saturday.

Don't want to even contemplate building a squad or what happens Kidney right now. I just want us to batter the ABs from pillar to post and have more points on the board after the 80min. Everything else can wait.

Believe!

Too bloody right. that’s why I don’t see the need to disrupt the team that started last week. like for like replacements where possible and lets tear straight back into them from the off.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Can I just ask another question here lads. For arguments sake if we win (I don't think we will in truth) does that give Kidney a stay of execution. It seems that one big performance a season is the MO of this Irish side. If we lose does anyone think the IRFU will actually make a change, or are we stuck with him for the Six Nations?

In my view no way,we need to back it up and win both our home games in the autumn as well as challenge for the 6 Nations.Kidney needs to introduce consistent performances before he earns another shot with this team but I don't know if the IRFU will see it that way.There's no way he's going anywhere until after the 6N the IRFU aren't going to buy him out of his contract.

If Kidney can get the team playing like that regularly then I'd be happy to see him stay on and there is some hope that he can.One thing Kidney has shown is that he is slow to change (O'Leary and Fitz before the WC,Buckley,D'Arcy no matter how he played) but when he does make a change and it works he doesn't go back on it.I hope that will also be true for how he wants us to play and from now on we'll use less of the up n under,kick and chase game.

[Notch]

If it's like for like, that means we start with Wallace and bring on O'Gara for him with Sexton moving to the midfield. I'm not sure this is the right choice but I'm becoming more and more convinced thats the intention of the coaches.

[rodders]

We are sooooooo close here lads to perhaps the biggest win in the history of Irish rugby, its so close I can taste it....

Don't get side tracked or convinced we've missed the boat. It's not time yet to look to the future...not beyond saturday anyways. No towels, no white flags, no... cough, cough... er surrender ..

There was no fluke about Saturday, no one-off special circumstances, we can do this. 100%. Believe .

[Notch]

If it's like for like, that means we start with Wallace and bring on O'Gara for him with Sexton moving to the midfield. I'm not sure this is the right choice but I'm becoming more and more convinced thats the intention of the coaches.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

McFadden is a more like for like replacement for Darcy than Wallace is IMO

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

We are sooooooo close here lads to perhaps the biggest win in the history of Irish rugby, its so close I can taste it....

Don't get side tracked or convinced we've missed the boat. It's not time yet to look to the future...not beyond saturday anyways. No towels, no white flags, no... cough, cough... er surrender ..

There was no fluke about Saturday, no one-off special circumstances, we can do this. 100%. Believe .

Exactly. Chamberlain told Hitler he missed the bus in 1938 and look how wrong he was. We need 15 Hitlers out there on Saturday. Believe!(or else)

[rodders]

If I was a betting man I'd say Earls will start at centre if fit... if he isn't I think Kidney might just go for ROG at 10 and Sexton at 12 before he'd go with McFadden.

With Paddy just arriving, I'd imagine it will be a day or two before he's able to train. I'd say the best he can hope for, bar injury, is the bench.

Not sure if any noticed but Sexton wasn't happy about moving to centre last week... there was a bit of a barney between him, ROG and BOD before he reluctantly moved outside BOD?.....

[Notch]

McFadden is a more like for like replacement for Darcy than Wallace is IMO

I know you like McFadden but he's not a guy who seems to be considered as a 12 but the current coaching staff. Unable to carve out his own niche in the Leinster team he's damned with the tag of the utility player. We only have one fit specialist 12 now D'Arcy is out.

It's a shame because I like McFadden. Just wish he would show what he's capable of sooner rather than later. He's a major talent who's been treading water for a while.

[rodders]

Exactly. Chamberlain told Hitler he missed the bus in 1938 and look how wrong he was. We need 15 Hitlers out there on Saturday. Believe!(or else)

[Sin é]

Paddy will be given time off to make up for his time in NZ, so his family shouldn't suffer too much.

Think of O'Gara - his Mrs is just about to give birth and he is out in NZ bench warming.

Don't forget about Amy Huberman

Didn't know she was about to pop.

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