Ireland v New Zealand 2nd Test Live Match Thread

by **Pal Joey** Sat 16 Jun 2012, 10:04 am

First topic message reminder :

Venue for the 2nd test: AMI Stadium (Addington) - formerly Rugby League Park Christchurch
Capacity: 26,000 incl. temporary seating
Weather http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2192362

Current forecast for Saturday evening is around 3 degrees C and light rain.

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith
[/quote]

Irish team:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

by eirebilly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:44 am

There i was thinking that i was being all funny, only for people like yourselves to turn it into an 80's porn theme. Very Happy

by SecretFly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:51 am

I wasn't talking about porn, Billy ..I was talking about Dallas... I was offered a role on Dallas....as Bobby's ghost.

I turned it down because of ...Sue Ellen. *sigh* I just knew I could never meet her on set...it might turn into an 80s porn then... or at least the extra two inches might.

by Mickado Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:52 am

SecretFly wrote:I wasn't talking about porn, Billy ..I was talking about Dallas... I was offered a role on Dallas....as Bobby's ghost.

I turned it down because of ...Sue Ellen. *sigh* I just knew I could never meet her on set...it might turn into an 80s porn then... or at least the extra two inches might.

You're going to wake up and it was allllllllllllll a dream.

by eirebilly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:53 am

I bet you still have an 'I shot JR' T-shirt Fly Wink

by SecretFly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:58 am

eirebilly wrote:I bet you still have an 'I shot JR' T-shirt Fly

T-Shirt??!!! Why would I need the t-shirt, I have the smoking gun............... OOPS!!! Damn it, it's out! The secret, that is not the inches. So it WAS me all along but I'm glad the Crosby girl copped it.

by KiaRose Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:33 pm

brennomac wrote:For info, link below is to the opta stats for the match

ow.ly/bD0Cf

OK, so lies, damned lies and statistics...

Opinion (but often stated as fact): SH teams are more clinical when in possession

Stat: NZ possession 59%; Ireland 41%
Number of scores NZ 7; Ireland 6; (incl conversions)
NZ create one score for each 8.43% possession
Ireland create one score for each 6.83% possession

Conclusion Ireland are more clinical.

NZ Territory 62%; Ireland 38%
NZ create one score for each 8.89% possession
Ireland create one score for each 6.33% possession

Confirms conclusion based on possession!!

Very Happy

by SecretFly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:03 pm

Now all we need is 59% possession!

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:07 pm

I thought Tuohy was pretty good in the tight and the lineout but would like to see himmore in the loose regardless. Unseen work is good, but seen and unseen work is great. Even if he is used as a dummy runner I'd be happy.

Ryan is quickly becoming our best player IMO.

Sexton and BOD were pretty damn good I felt and led our attack in the backs, where as Healy was the main man going forward with Heaslip in the pack.

Best is quality, not sure on ross. For ages our scrum was less superior than it was last week with Fitzpatrick.

RESTARTS!
If we had done "ok" in this area I think we would have won the match!

by **rodders** Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:16 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
RESTARTS!
If we had done "ok" in this area I think we would have won the match!

Interesting watching this again last night with the NZ commentry.

Reid really was awesome here and the length of the restarts by Carter were inch perfect....

That said Heaslip, who was best placed to challenge Reid didn't even attempt to compete, leaving the other players like Ryan flatfooted against Reid and they had no chance.

If Reid is out then that will really help us next week I think. After he went off we did much better at the restarts.

by MMC Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:17 pm

What do ye make of this folks?

http://prem1.hiboox.com/images/2412/diapo7fa16d1fdd83106138f0a14418bda7e7.gif

It's a gif of McLaughlin trying to get McCaw away from the ball during a maul. It doesn't really look great to be honest. If he's cited and subsequently banned that could leave us very light on backrows with Heaslip out too.

I'll have my fingers crossed for him.

by **rodders** Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:19 pm

Yup only had a quick gander MMC but he'll get a hefty ban if he's cited I think.... bollix Crying or Very sad

by Thomond Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:21 pm

MMC, I think the citing window has passed (could be wrong on that) but he deserves some time off for that on first view. You might need a closer look at it though.

by SecretFly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:22 pm

Kearney needs to find a way to extricate himself from the AB attention as his best features are being nullified by them at present.

by MMC Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:34 pm

Thomond wrote:MMC, I think the citing window has passed (could be wrong on that) but he deserves some time off for that on first view. You might need a closer look at it though.

I hope you're right Thomond. He's not a dirty player. Any contact would've been unintentional (I would hope) but obviously that's not enough an excuse to escape a ban if contact is deemed to have been made.

If he is cleared I think this backrow is the best way to go for Saturday:

6. McL
7. SOB
8. POM
19. Henry

by Mickado Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:35 pm

MMC wrote:What do ye make of this folks?

http://prem1.hiboox.com/images/2412/diapo7fa16d1fdd83106138f0a14418bda7e7.gif

It's a gif of McLaughlin trying to get McCaw away from the ball during a maul. It doesn't really look great to be honest. If he's cited and subsequently banned that could leave us very light on backrows with Heaslip out too.

I'll have my fingers crossed for him.

Gouging is so passe, if it was a tip tackle we'd be bollixed. He does make contact with the eye area though, silly boy.

by Pete330v2 Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:40 pm

There seemed to be a lot of players with eye related injuries on saturday, is there an epidemic of conjunctivitis in NZ ?

by SecretFly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:43 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:There seemed to be a lot of players with eye related injuries on saturday, is there an epidemic of conjunctivitis in NZ ?

Very well spotted. I wondered when that epidemic might be mentioned...it was (to use a pun!!!!) quite pointed. But like men there seems to be omerta about all of that amongst both sides. It's "funny" how the dangers of losing the sight in an eye can be all put to bed under honour rules attached to dark arts.

by **rodders** Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:45 pm

In fairness now BODs eye injury came from Donnacha Ryan kneeing him in the chops.... Whistle

by Pete330v2 Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:48 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:There seemed to be a lot of players with eye related injuries on saturday, is there an epidemic of conjunctivitis in NZ ?

Very well spotted. I wondered when that epidemic might be mentioned...it was (to use a pun!!!!) quite pointed. But like men there seems to be omerta about all of that amongst both sides. It's "funny" how the dangers of losing the sight in an eye can be all put to bed under honour rules attached to dark arts.

Show off. I use the words epidemic and conjunctivitus and you go and use omerta Smile

Seriously though, Mike Ross looked like his eye was about to explode and McCaw's eye area got progressively worse as the match went on including what looked like stud marks on his forehead.

On a brighter note, Heaslip got to knee a Kiwi in the head again and this time got away with it......kudos Jamie.

by SecretFly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:52 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
On a brighter note, Heaslip got to knee a Kiwi in the head again and this time got away with it......kudos Jamie.

The only thing that saved him there is the fact that the New Zealand authorities wouldn't give Owens any Red cards for fear that he's a NHer and likes showing them off.

by asoreleftshoulder Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:00 pm

rodders wrote:In fairness now BODs eye injury came from Donnacha Ryan kneeing him in the chops....

Feicing Munster players trying to injure BoD again,PoC pulled that trick a few years ago and got away with it too.How much longer will these blatant assaults on BoD go unpunished.

by Pete330v2 Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:47 pm

Mickado wrote:
MMC wrote:What do ye make of this folks?

http://prem1.hiboox.com/images/2412/diapo7fa16d1fdd83106138f0a14418bda7e7.gif

It's a gif of McLaughlin trying to get McCaw away from the ball during a maul. It doesn't really look great to be honest. If he's cited and subsequently banned that could leave us very light on backrows with Heaslip out too.

I'll have my fingers crossed for him.

Gouging is so passe, if it was a tip tackle we'd be bollixed. He does make contact with the eye area though, silly boy.

Is there any other clips of this as my PC won't deal with GIFs Sad

by Rava Mon 18 Jun 2012, 5:28 pm

I'm just surprised that a voice activated virtual keyboard can understand a Munster accent Whistle

by The Great Aukster Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:21 pm

Can't believe Paddy Wallace has been called up. Really!

I mean that is a big slap in the face to McFadden and Cave - there is only one game left and centre is their best position yet Kidney needs the security of a player who isn't the future and hasn't played rugby for a month! Even is there's a late injury he could play Trimble or Duffy in the centre or extend the Sexton to 12 experiment.
Surely he can't be calling Paddy to cover 15 having already brought Duffy over?
Calling up both Duffy and Wallace shows that Kidney is clueless and needs someone else to come up with a backline strategy PDQ, or is that Les Kiss' fault too?

by Taylorman Tue 19 Jun 2012, 2:45 am

Havnt seen this but did see McCaw the next day when the AB's visitited the Womens hocket training.

His face was all cut up around the eyes- looked a sight but no different from when we used to turn up at work, suit and tie Monday morning with a face that looked like a truck had hit it...ahhhhhh miss those days... Sad

by Pete330v2 Tue 19 Jun 2012, 8:27 am

I think it's a little unfair to call poor Paddy away from his family holiday in the Algarve unless that is he's going to be starting in place of D'Arcy which on this season's form he would deserve. If however he's been called in as cover and will be getting arse-splinters from the bench again then I hope it was a hefty wad of cash they sent him to abandon his holiday.
'Sorry kids, daddy has to go and keep a spot on uncle Dekkie's bench warm'

by **rodders** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 8:49 am

Ah come on Pete, Paddy's a professional rugby player, employed by the IRFU man....this is his job. Employers make people cancel their holidays all the time.

Enough with the poor Paddy stuff man, if I had a choice of being in the Algarve or warming the bench in NZ I know where I'd rather be and I can guess where Paddy would rather be too.

I agree with Aukster that its a bit of a kick in the teeth for McFadden and Cave though but I suppose if we had another injury or two in training we'd be in trouble so we need sufficient cover there.

by Pete330v2 Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:00 am

I know that Rodders and as I said it's a little unfair UNLESS he's going to be starting in place of D'Arcy. If he's there to sit on a bench then it's hardly the most pleasant thing to do to a player when there's cover at 12 with McFadden and Sexton both capable.

by **rodders** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:08 am

No Pete, I get what your saying but I just don't agree.

Paddy is a professional player, 99.9% of rugby players would give their left arm to go out to NZ to hold tackle bags. When he signed his contract this is what he signed up for. Gavin Duffy did the same.

Personally I don't think Paddy will feature at all and think he was unlucky not to tour in the first place but don't agree with the poor Paddy stuff.

I'd say he's delighted with the call up and to still be in the international picture. He'll get plenty of uninterupted holidays with the family when he's retired.

by Pete330v2 Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:12 am

Well we can agree to disagree with how we think Paddy Wallace's mind works but in my mind professional rugby players are human beings and have feelings and more to the point priorities that put rugby completely in the shade. What is just a holiday to some is priceless, precious time with the family to others.
Just saying is all.....

by **rodders** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:33 am

Look Pete neither of us are in a position to speak for Paddy but the fact that he signed an IRFU one year extension suggests that he is fully committed to being a professional rugby player for Ulster and Ireland.... and part of that means sacrificing family commitments to go on tour.

This isn't forced on him, he signed a contract. If he'd rather have the summer off he shouldn't have signed....but he did sign so I'd guess that would indicate he's delighted to be part of the squad, and prepared to perform any role asked of him to help the side. I'm sure he wants to start but if hes there to hold tackle bags, well thats his job quite frankly and he's well paid to do it.

I notice people didn't say poor Duffy when he got the call up?

In terms of Kidney, well if O'Driscoll was to get a knock in training (touch wood) every one would be criticising him for not bringing sufficient centre cover so as much as it's an inconvenience to Paddy these are all professionals here and are fully aware of their commitments and responsibilities.

by Hookisms and Hyperbole Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:38 am

There has been a lot of concern in the press about which Ireland will turn up on Saturday. In truth we should all be more concerned about which Rodders will turn up after it.

by The Great Aukster Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:44 am

I agree with you Pete - sorry rodders.

I have a close contact to Paddy and well, put it like this:
You've been the standout 12 in Irish rugby this season and the incumbent 12 has been underperforming. You've had a good tour against the ABs in the past but you're ignored for this one. You know that you're not in the coaches plans except as a last resort, and you're enjoying yourself in a holiday resort with the family after a long season - which resort would you really want to be in?

by Rava Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:53 am

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:There has been a lot of concern in the press about which Ireland will turn up on Saturday. In truth we should all be more concerned about which Rodders will turn up after it.

by **Notch** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:54 am

Is it time for a thread for the 3rd Test?

by Rava Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:00 am

Notch wrote:Is it time for a thread for the 3rd Test?

There's probably time for two of them!

by red_stag Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:00 am

Lads it doesn't work that way.

Wallace doesn't get to say "I'll only come if I get to start". He is either available to come on tour or he is retired internationally.

Honest to god I never heard the like of it in my life.

by **rodders** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:01 am

Don't apologise Aukster guinness

Points... firstly that is subjective that Paddy has been the standout 12.... I would certainly say he's played some of the best rugby of his career but I think its unfair to fail to acknowledge D'arcys excellent form for Leinster.

I personally think Paddy is unlucky not to go originally on merit, but can understand why he was left out. I'm sure it was a close call.

Look its just my opinion man, I have friends in professions who have to cancel holidays at the drop of a hat. I have commitents to my own employer but I know that when I took the job. Rugby players have a good deal and I really disagree that anyone, Paddy or otherwise, should or would feel hard done by for doing their job.

I don't dismiss that there's a bit of inconvenience for Paddy and his family but he's well paid to compensate.

Sorry but I don't feel sorry for Paddy. I'd love to be in his position.

by **Notch** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:03 am

red_stag wrote:Wallace doesn't get to say "I'll only come if I get to start". He is either available to come on tour or he is retired internationally.

Yeah, thats it. Thats the job.

by Pete330v2 Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:04 am

red_stag wrote:Lads it doesn't work that way.

Wallace doesn't get to say "I'll only come if I get to start". He is either available to come on tour or he is retired internationally.

Honest to god I never heard the like of it in my life.

Nobody said that Staggy

by **rodders** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:05 am

Rava wrote:
Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:There has been a lot of concern in the press about which Ireland will turn up on Saturday. In truth we should all be more concerned about which Rodders will turn up after it.

Yous cheeky bollixes... I may not always mean what I say, but I always say what I mean god damn yous!! boxing

by Pete330v2 Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:07 am

All I've said is that I feel it was a little unfair, not that he has a god given right to a starting place. I've also said that he must feel gutted to have to abandon a very precious family holiday and spending 24/7 with his kids, something I'd never have appreciated the value of before having my own. Dropping everything at the drop of a hat for your employer is one thing, how you feel about it is something completely different.

by **Notch** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:10 am

I agree to an extent. Thats why it makes me annoyed when I see the "Paddy Wallace, we're doomed, Kidney out" posts. He's demonstrated his commitment. Hopefully from his point of view that commitment will be rewarded with another cap but even if it's not it is his job. There it is.

by red_stag Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:12 am

Pete I would hope he views the nation as more than an "employer".

Honest to god if he was moaning and grumbling in that manner I would never want to see he play for Ireland again.

How long does he have left to play for Ireland? 12-18 months maybe. He should be welcoming the chance.

by **Notch** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:16 am

I'm sure he is though Stag. I've never heard anything to suggest otherwise. But I've also no doubt that his family is more important than anything else because thats the nature of family. So he's making a sacrifice- this demonstrates his commitment imo.

by **rodders** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:16 am

Pete330v2 wrote: Dropping everything at the drop of a hat for your employer is one thing, how you feel about it is something completely different.

But its not at the drop of the hat, he'll have agreed to be on stand by for the tour and its in his contract anyway.

Jeebus you'd think he had no say in this. This is what he wants to do and this sort of talk really does no justice to Paddy at all.

I'm dumbfounded by this, I really am Headscratch

.

by red_stag Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:17 am

I have no doubt he is very committed Notch. I have never seen anything to make me think that Paddy would feel that way.

Thats why I am so surprised to see these comments that its unfair to him unless he is given a starting role in the team.

Its utterly bizarre to me to suggest it and I would bet that Paddy wouldn't agree calling him up to NZ is unfair.

by **Notch** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:23 am

I would bet the same. I hope he is in the 22 (as 22) but even if he doesn't its his job. He's not had much joy with selection of late but he's not given up hope of winning his place back long term at all. He's still seems to be working very hard on his fitness, he's probably in better shape than he was two years ago. This is a great opportunity for him not an inconvenience.

by Pete330v2 Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:25 am

Tis fair enough but personally, whether on standby or not I'd feel a little hard done by if I was called away from a rare family holiday by Dekkie Kidney to hold tackle bags. Just an opinion, I'm not saying I'm right so there's no need to be dumbfounded about it.

Oh and the IRFU or Dekkie Kidney is hardly the nation Staggy.

by **rodders** Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:26 am

...well anyways... I personally am happy for Paddy guinness

.

I hope he features in some capacity but even if he doesn't it gives him an olive branch for the AI's and 6N, which is a positive thing for me.

Just reward for an excellent season and like a fine wine he is improving with age. If he carries on with last seasons form then he has a few more seasons in him imo.

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