England can mount a serious challenge for the No1 spot and the 2015 RWC

As an England fan I'm happy that we're the highest ranking NH team, this is a huge achievement for such a new team and coaching set up.

But lets be honest we should have won the 3rd test.

As an England fan we should be aiming higher than 4th, we could mount a serious challenge for the No1 spot and the 2015 RWC IMO, Aus and SA are there for the taking and as Ireland showed NZ can be got at (well sometimes!)

As an England fan I want to see my team do all the performing on the pitch and not just talking a good game off which seems to satisfy some countries fans.

Every game, in every way, we're getting better and better.

Hersh, just a reminder mate, there is a lot more coming from SA and OZ, we didn't perform nearly as well as we should have

We should have won them all. The good thing is we sorted out the problem in the third test and started with more intensity. In all three games we ended the better team and if the games were 20 mins longer we would have won them all..

England will be second favs in the rwc . And it is very realistic to target the top 2 rankings before

mystiroakey wrote:We should have won them all.

Yeah us too.

HERSH

I do agree with you that England should of won their third test. But to be fair so should Wales.

Yes England at the moment are the best team ( hightest ranked) NH team in the IRB world Rankins.

But lets not get a head of hour selves, England just like Wales had already lost the series. So realy their was not mutch to play for only to get a little pride back into the England team.

For this England team to get a draw is a big achievment, when you consider how many of the England team had played any international rugby before.

But 2015 Rugby World Cup. is a long way off for this England team at the moment.

Yes the rwc is a long way off for all teams.

And I would beat my last pound that the sh teams are more afraid of England over any other nh team to spoil there party and top 3 rankings

That may be true Bil, but I don't think the NH/SH Gap is as big as some people believe.

I think all NH unions need to look at how many games the top players are playing and reduce it by at least a quarter, as this I believe will give us all a real chance of playing you guys on a level playing field.

biltongbek wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:We should have won them all.

Yeah us too.

Correct . The only way to look at it..

HERSH wrote:That may be true Bil, but I don't think the NH/SH Gap is as big as some people believe.

I think all NH unions need to look at how many games the top players are playing and reduce it by at least a quarter, as this I believe will give us all a real chance of playing you guys on a level playing field.

That doesn't apply to the Irish guys as they only play HC and 6 nations games anyway.

The gap is past the top 1 and top 6. We all know who there are. Defining hemispheres doesnt help anyone

HERSH wrote:That may be true Bil, but I don't think the NH/SH Gap is as big as some people believe.

I think all NH unions need to look at how many games the top players are playing and reduce it by at least a quarter, as this I believe will give us all a real chance of playing you guys on a level playing field.

Hersh I said this before the gap is not North vs south.

There is a gap between NZAnd the north, they almost never lose to the north.

There isn't a gap between SA and OZ to the NH, we are tradionally better than the NH but not much, and hence we usually lose at least one match in the AI's

There is no real gap, only in the players minds, that is why they fail.

Anyway I'm off out for the day, Folly farm here I come

Theres clear gaps in ability and performance. But not between wales eng fra oz and sa

Yes correct mystir, that's my point.

No matter which of those five teams will win the most matches between each other, they are all capable of beating each other, obviously being capable is only part of thr equation.

yep. obviously i will admit that sa and oz are slightly better(and certainly better on a belief level), just not significantly enough.

Could any off us call a game on a neutral ground between any of those mentioned teams at the moment?

Hardly, no

England are seriously unlikely to threaten for top spot in the World Rankings. I say this for two reasons -

first the resoirces currently available are not good enough to win the volume of games needed.
Second it is hard to reach that spot when most of your matches are against teams in the lower half of the Top 10. The points you can get for a win are so small you need to dominate.


HOWEVER

They can make a challenge for the RWC. The biggest advantage will be playing at home, but the squad are developing and could turn into a genuine Top 4 side. At that point winninmg such tournaments is certainly feasible.

"England can mount a serious challenge for the no1 spot and the 2015 world cup"

What other kind of challenge is there?
A not so serious one perhaps?

I think a healthy ENG rugby team is good for the game.

They're the best villians out there... the arch enemy of every side in rugby.

Ask the French, Scots, Welsh, Irish, Argies etc who they would most want to put one over on and they'll all say ENG.

In the 3N whilst a win over NZ (or for NZ, SA) would be ther most ideal win, one over ENG is always the sweetest.... its the old 2 finger salute to their old colonial masters.

To be honest if there is one side which will can win the RWC in 2015 from the NH it will be ENG. They are the only ones with the potential to consistently beat the 3N sides. WAL & IRE are too dependent on their core 20 odd players, FRA too inconsistent.

It doesn't mean they will however.. their coaching looks a bit amateurish to be honest. Lancaster says he's only been in the job 6 weeks yardy yardy yah.... he's had the job since xmas. Thats more than enough to create a couple of backline moves yet his only ideas have been route 1.

Good enough for club rugby, even saxons rugby... but come the top 8 sides in test rugby, its easy to mop up and its why ENG don't score tries at the moment and in essence don't win as many games as they could do.

Don't score tries?

Thats a myth and you know it.

well they don't score enough thats for sure....

7 tries in this years 6N & 1 each vs. ITA & SCO where ENG would have hoped to bump up their points difference... no where near enough for a team looking to become a force oncemore.

MJ averaged 12 per 6N during his tenure and he wasn't exactly held as an attacking rugby guru.

Yet England were a bounce of the ball away from winning the 6 nations!

Just seems an easy bandwagon to jump on IMO, the fact is England's try scoring record isn't any/much worse than any other NH team.

Well it may be good enough to compete against the 6N sides but it won't be enough to beat the likes of SA, AUS & NZ. If you want a chance against them you need to score tries, to bump up the points as much as possible and crucially pressurise the opposition.

ENG won't get close to challenging either 3N side with their current attack plans.

SA just soaked them up all series... JDV was laughing at Tuilagi for much of it.... "knock me down, I don't care... you ain't getting past me regardless".

We have the start of next season...the AI's, the 6n's and next summer tours...and i believe we will be a formiidable team...i dont care what anyone says.

We need to tweak a few things...big second row...fitness of a few players...and have serious words with Owen "all i want to do is kick i should have been a footballer" Farrell...and we'll be right there....

It would also be good if Farrell stopped running towards the man he is passing to. (something Priestland seems to do as well)

LT

Farrell needs to be taken aside and told exactly the craic.

Yesterday i counted at least 4 times when we could really have attacked...and he elected to kick. And im not buying into this he's only 20 malarky either. If he's not ready he should not be there.

I'm confident England are on their way to becoming a very good side. I thought the team for yesterday looked good, and I hope by the next 6 Nations we'll be playing something like:

Corbisero (or Marler, there's not much in it)
Hartley (I think he's underrated, but Youngs and Lindsey may challenge)
Cole (getting close to being the world's best TH)
Lawes
Launchbury
Croft
Robshaw
Morgan (if properly fit)
Youngs (or Care, there's not much in it)
Flood
Foden
Tuilagi
JJ
Ashton
Goode

I think that's a pretty strong side on paper, particularly if the 10, 12, 13 combo improve with experience. And if players like George, Burns, Farrell, Cipriani, Twelvetrees, Haskell, Wood, Fearns, Lowe, Brown, May, Wade, or Garvey force their way in then that's probabaly good news.

Nice looking team Dave. Croft and Morgan will find it tough to keep out Wood and Waldrom. I think Brown is probably ahead of Goode at the moment, although not by miles.

Dont forget Crane should be back firing...cracking No.8...

Test Rugby is a harsh arena,the difference between success and failure is a slim one.England and the Boks both had many first choice players missing. BUT the reality is the Boks could have won the game had Morne Steyn been his normal self.In any game a side gets x oppertunities to score points the side that CONVERTS the most oppertunities wins.Wales for want of the nous to put the ball into crowd last week cost them the game.Ireland went 10 points up against NZ last week and closed Nz down for periods.BUT by half time the All Blacks were on terms and were never behind there after.After conceding 10 points they perceptibly upped there game.Whether people want to admit it or not a man in the Bin is supposed to be 10 points to the opposing team.The ABs rolled up there sleeves,got into the position for Dan Carter to do the rest.It was pathetic hearing commentators sneering about resorting to Drop Goals.It is a legitimate way of scoring no one said that when Stranksky and Jonny won RWCs with them.
England since the RWC have made big strides,and have plenty of potential BUT
Number One by 2015.On Current form Number 4 at Best is more realistic.

HERSH wrote:Yet England were a bounce of the ball away from winning the 6 nations!

In which match did this 'bounce of the ball' go against England?

LondonTiger wrote:It would also be good if Farrell stopped running towards the man he is passing to. (something Priestland seems to do as well)

Farrell is a mindless automaton, like the majority of his club colleagues playing for England.

Of course, i'll be accused of going on and on and on about the SAracens contingent, but seriously, they're killing our team. Its Plan A (kick) and there is no Plan B. As soon as Farrell came on, you knew it was game over, it was painful to watch. Its got nothing to do with his age or inexperience, he kicked the leather off the ball because thats all he knows how to do.

Time to take out the trash.

Have you never chased a rugby ball Luckless?

They tend to bounce funny from time to time

This is a section from the official 6 nations site match report from Eng v Wal

"But after his bad mistake earlier Williams made himself a hero with four minutes remaining with the decisive score, robbing Lawes and profitting from the friendliest of bounces after his kick ahead to gleefully touch down under the posts."

So in truth the ball could have gone anywhere, hence

"England were a bounce of the ball away from winning the 6 nations!"

Ah, I see. I thought you were referring to David Strettle's non-try.

Still no prove either way on that one.

But you need to stop living in the past you're only as good as your last game.

Well played!

I do not see such a rosy future for England as some more patriotic countrymen do. I think our team spirit has improved and we have blooded some youngsters which is a step in the right direction. However, lets not kid ourselves about where England is right now. We could not live with SA when they turned it on and this was a new SA enjoying even less time together than England. Yes we fought back, but the match deciding moments were all about SA.

Until Eng rectify their serious weaknesses at 4, 10, 12 and get a decent back up to Cole then I think we will remain where we are.....a decent team but not a top team.

I hope to see some new talent come through soon.

HERSH wrote:Have you never chased a rugby ball Luckless?

They tend to bounce funny from time to time

This is a section from the official 6 nations site match report from Eng v Wal

"But after his bad mistake earlier Williams made himself a hero with four minutes remaining with the decisive score, robbing Lawes and profitting from the friendliest of bounces after his kick ahead to gleefully touch down under the posts."

So in truth the ball could have gone anywhere, hence

"England were a bounce of the ball away from winning the 6 nations!"

They do sometimes bounce funnily, but this was hardly a lucky bounce. You can see him reposition the ball in his hands and kick it in a particular way so that it would tumble end over end and pop up. It's a fairly reproducible skill, especially if you're a professional rugby player.

But to play into your needy hands, I think England always have more potential than the other home nations to beat the SH teams. Their period of domination over the SH leading up to their world cup will not likely be repeated, and is the yardstick by which we should all be measured by.

*their period of domination.

Higher_Ground wrote:*their period of domination.

I fixed it for you

(sorry, they're/there/their is a pet peeve
Especially since I sometimes accidentally type there instead of their - though I never make the mistake when writing on paper
)

HERSH wrote:As an England fan I'm happy that we're the highest ranking NH team, this is a huge achievement for such a new team and coaching set up.

But lets be honest we should have won the 3rd test.

As an England fan we should be aiming higher than 4th, we could mount a serious challenge for the No1 spot and the 2015 RWC IMO, Aus and SA are there for the taking and as Ireland showed NZ can be got at (well sometimes!)

As an England fan I want to see my team do all the performing on the pitch and not just talking a good game off which seems to satisfy some countries fans.

Every game, in every way, we're getting better and better.

My mind is England made to look competent by a very poor South African springboks.

Are there any other kind of Sprinboks?

Ask the French, Scots, Welsh, Irish, Argies etc who they would most want to put one over on and they'll all say ENG.

Not for me. We regularly beat England. I want an Australian scalp more than ever now seeing as each match was pretty darn close.

Equo Troiano wrote:Are there any other kind of Sprinboks?

Yeah, poorer, poorest, pathetic.

Where do Springboks keep their money? Not as if they have any pockets.

you're thinking about wallabies LondonTiger

munkian wrote:

Ask the French, Scots, Welsh, Irish, Argies etc who they would most want to put one over on and they'll all say ENG.

Not for me. We regularly beat England. I want an Australian scalp more than ever now seeing as each match was pretty darn close.

Actually, no you don't, history shows us that statistically, the two sides are very even in terms of victories. And you can crow all you like about 6N form, it means little if you can't cross the equator and beat a(ny) SH team as England have done on a number of occasions. I was still in nappies when Wales last got one over the Wallabies in their own back yard.

And close? - yes, close - but, no cigar. This Wallabies side is arguably the weakest of the big three, yet still Wales failed to beat them, I suspect that England would have beaten them once at least.

Do try to get a sense of perspective, there's a good chap.

No doubt that ENG were again the best perfoming NH team over the equator against SANZAR teams. And the IRB ranking now reflecting that! (SCO was a blip)

Until WAL, IRE get psychology composed and learn about TEAM and LEADERSHIP they will never challenge outside of Europe.

Another World of pain
Challenge outside Europe ?

'Yes we can'

[Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Japan]