What form will the alleged draw rigging follow now?

First topic message reminder :

With Djokovic & Federer likely to be separated in the draws for a while now I thought it appropriate to find out how the draws will look when they are rigged for the USO, or beyond.

It's a fair question, as unless we get advance notice we won't know whether or not they actually have been!

So, is putting Murray with Djokovic giving him the tough or easy option? Does matching Nadal with Federer imply a fix to get a Fedal match, or would they be separated to make it tough for Novak and hold out the hope of a Fedal final?

I'm not a believer myself so haven't a clue but I thought the forum members who possess irrefutable proof gathered by renowned statisticians should step forward and describe the shape of the future rigged draw.

reckoner wrote:I'm not defending Seifer's last post at all, it is out of line. However it usually takes a fair abit of provocation for someone to get that fed up.

I retain the opinion that there must be a better way to deal with issues of this sort than handing out life bans.

Unfortunately it only seemed to need someone disagreeing with Seifer to get him very wound up. Look how often and quickly he resorted to the foe button as evidence of this. He also evidently managed to talk himself into a life ban from a temp ban. His last few posts were truly shocking and quite disturbing.

A real shame as some of his tennis related articles were ok.

So by implication the forum is only fun if we have Seifer-types mouthing off obscenities?
Not everyone joins a forum for controversy.

Anyway JK...feel free to spark your own debate

lydian wrote:So by implication the forum is only fun if we have Seifer-types mouthing off obscenities?
Not everyone joins a forum for controversy.

Anyway JK...feel free to spark your own debate

I think it's fun if there is some variety, which I don't feel is the case anymore.

There are Federer fans, Nadal fans, Murray fans, some Djokovic fans...lovers of yesteryear tennis and current tennis...some knowledgeable about LTA, equipment, technique, women's tennis, etc...what are you looking for - constant Nadal bashing? There was no variety in that.

I think it was quite obvious early on that this poster was on a mission of self-destruction and if he had stayed may have well taken the tennis forum with him.

What variety are you after JK? I seem to recall the rafateers and Andy Murray fan groups being early casualties of this forum during its early days.

Exactly NS...if people want Nadal bashing they know where to go for it

Posters like Seifer actually restrict variety as they are so overbearing in their opinions. As NS said, he was on a self destruct mission from the start.

ps what I like about this forum is the access to other sports. Also there are quite a few sensible posters on the tennis forum

As always the health of such a forum is dependent on a continual supply of new blood posters.

I think the well balanced moderation is a very good thing for this forum. There must be loads of tennis fans put off by the excessive wummery on other forums that want to chat about tennis, no matter who they support.

The thing is with Seifer was that the players he disliked, he would literally resort to mouthing them off, insulting them yet I see posters not insulting the player/s he followed. When he was wrong on his predictions you never saw him here. He never enjoyed people disagreeing with him and I can remember LF having a conversation and he was disparaging about her views.

What is the point of debate if you can't accept others views. It is a 2 way street.

Nore Staat wrote:I think it was quite obvious early on that this poster was on a mission of self-destruction and if he had stayed may have well taken the tennis forum with him.

What variety are you after JK? I seem to recall the rafateers and Andy Murray fan groups being early casualties of this forum during its early days.

Yes but they decided to go rather than being banned. Anyway , personally I am fine with rafateers, I am fine with fans of all kinds, even with Federer wums and boring or weird posters as what I am looking for in a forum, basically, is some kind of entertainment. In other words I don't believe a forum should be taken that seriously as some seem to do. I see someone is over sensitive here and gets easily offended if their player is not appreciated or maybe bashed, failing to take, in my view, the things in the right spirit.

[quote="Jeremy_Kyle] I see someone is over sensitive here and gets easily offended if their player is not appreciated or maybe bashed, failing to take, in my view, the things in the right spirit.[/quote]

Doesn't the spirit in which it is taken depend upon the spirit in which it is intended? Seifer was clearly not looking for a debate or he would have debated. He didn't, he just went straight to cheap insults and the foe button.

As has been said, posters on here support a variety of players but manage, almost always, to debate as adults. Seifer acted like a spoilt child, throwing tantrums when posters disagreed with him.

I don't like to tell tales out of school but on the old 606 Seifer was a bit of a Ronnie O'Sullivan fan (When I say "a bit", I mean 100x greater than his love of Federer on here).

If I could make a small point on the OP (does that mean original post? If not, I apologise) I think we will end up with Fed v Murray and Novak v Nadal. Don't know if that's related to rigging or bad luck but it's a gut feeling. Do you get ranking points for the Olympics?

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:Saifer was weird but also interesting to read. Other posters here are perfectly behaving but also damn boring and mainly I know what are they going to say after reading just one liner, basically because they always repeat tha same idea ad nauseam.

sometimes I wander if this is some kind of kindergarden were people come to get educated by the mods or a place where you can talk tennis having some fun in the process......

Of course Seifer was "interesting to read". People who always go out of their way to "shock" are always the most entertaining. Sorry - but I ain't interested in that type of entertainment, which usually involves disrespecting every Tennis player (and their fans) apart from Fed or who, by the way, Seifer had a rather worrying liking for

This board is far better than it used to be simply because we can have grown up debates with those that we often disagree with, i.e. the likes of bogbrush and lydian who I have had animated discussions with are two people who you respect enough to have a drink with

i.e. it doesn't have to be so OTT

The Special Juan wrote: Do you get ranking points for the Olympics?

Yep http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2011/05/Features/Olympics-2012-Rankings-Agreement.aspx

Men’s Singles
Gold Medal 750
Silver Medal 450
Bronze Medal 340
Loser 3rd/4th 270
Quarterfinals 135
Round of 16 70
Round of 32 35
1st round 5

Thanks Some lucky people get a massive 5 ranking points for entering I see.

Don't know if I agree with getting ranking points as a lot of players will miss out, but then again would the top players compete if there weren't points?

I don't support outright abuse of posters (players can take care of themselves) but agree with Jeremy Kyle in a way.

This place is in danger of becoming a monoculture - yes there might be fans of different players but if they are all the same type of fan that can get a little dull. People keep mentioning a fresh pool of posters, but I can't say I've noticed many. We need characters otherwise it gets old. We need posters like king of the biscuits (what happened to him?), Duggie (same question) and others.

I've suggested implementing a 3 month ban before a life ban is handed out - it is my hope that posters with controversial views who need to tone it down a notch or two will then be retained by the board.

I am not for posters insulting players. No excuse for it. To call someone scum or moonballing piece of poo is not acceptable. I mean jeez this is a forum for grown ups. Why bring that sort of mentality to a forum? I can say with going to live events such as the O2, Eastbourne, Brighton Centre, Wimbledon that I have never recalled fans saying obsceneties about players or namecalling the players. Yet attacting new fans that would is something that would prevent from forums becoming 'dull'

To me at least there are people that don't like the anti-Federer brigade, yet they are happy to jump on the anti-Nadal brigade. Same with neutral fans who encourage that type of behaviour.

So which is it to be? Unleash those who are not refined in putting their words across thus leading to other posters doing the same, or just have a forum where people discuss tennis without having to make football terrace like remarks about players or even players girlfriends?

I can't see how you can have both.

Hey polarise the argument all you want but I believe in the point I'm making.

It isn't a case of just having two types of posters - I want to see more diversity on this forum. Otherwise we just get repetitive, dull "articles" and the same axe getting ground between the same faux experts.

Regarding earlier discussion, I am not trying to particularly promote or reccomend Ja606.

I used the foe due to numerous insults aimed AT me. If you want proof of this you need only go look up the responses to my posts, even where I criticise the conditions I get back "Stop making snide comments". The moderators did nothing to stop the constant badgering. Had they done, the trouble would not have happened. A common accusation is "you insult players", well sure I do. They are on TV, I see their actions and rightly criticise Nadal for his cheating, and Murray for his on court tantrums. I don't know what they are like away from the sport so I do not comment on it, but what I see, I comment on. There is nothing wrong with that, and none of those players are members here. On a further note, criticising their play is also taboo here. If I call moon-balling "S.hite", I get "Snide comments!!!! Ban HIM!" So it is snide now to criticise a type of play too,eh? I did not call Nadal a "Moonballing piece of x", if you go back and read what I wrote, you will see I call MOONBALLING itself. The problem is, the above poster sees what he/she WANTS to see... and he/she does it an awful lot.

The mods also didn't have the balls to leave my final post in tact (and again called the view racist when it isn't). Foe is there for a reason. It is there to get away from mindless posters who keep bringing the argument to the person. When a moderator fails his duty (through bias and clique mentality), that is the only action you have left here, and some people don't seem to understand why I was forced to use it. If the usual posters who were so irritated with me did the same, maybe we could have all carried on. But no, they weren't prepared to do that. Instead they whined at the mods to ban me every 2 seconds and got "Offended" LMAO!

I am sorry boys and girls, but your forum has fallen victim of becoming a clique. Clique's aren't always bad but when they become an elitist clique that insults anyone with an opposing view, and when the moderators take the side of the regular members, they are a nightmare.

There are some genuine posters here (like Reckoner) that will come to realise what a futile exercise it is around here trying to debate without having their name brought up instead of what they have written. I have no desire to carry on at this forum and request this account be closed as well. I would like it, however, if the mods around here showed at least some balls this time in leaving the message. I would have been gone before Wimbledon if a mod hadn't forced me to stay. I knew the writing was on the wall then. Other people won't even sign up. So if you are wondering why your forum is stagnated, look no further than posters like Caldoniancraig, Nore, It Must Be Love...

Ps. I was right about Wimbledon and Federer and Nadal is on the decline. Also a shame you missed part of my praise for Murray in the post that was deleted. To recap: Any player that cries in defeat (and with what he said) is okay by me and although I dislike his behaviour I will not begrudge him a slam. I think he has it in him to win 1, but time is running out.

I recall you were banned from the original 606.
Was this due to excessive Wumming or racism?

Seifer, you were a controversial poster, but I wish you well in your journey through the interwebs.

reckoner wrote:Seifer, you were a controversial poster, but I wish you well in your journey through the interwebs.

Cheers bud. And you take care too. I am afraid most people agree with freedom of speech as long as you agree with their speech haha, that's the problem "I agree with freedom of speech but it has its limits" said your moderator... and I need say no more. Who watches the watchers?

reckoner wrote:Hey polarise the argument all you want but I believe in the point I'm making.

It isn't a case of just having two types of posters - I want to see more diversity on this forum. Otherwise we just get repetitive, dull "articles" and the same axe getting ground between the same faux experts.

I tend to use posters as a rule of thumb, but if you can provoke an angry response from emancipator, then you are on the road to nowhere.

I can't see that 'controversial' posters bring anything different. Just be the same player bashing that dragged 606 down.

I am all for different kinds of conversation, but it tends to be the usual suspect because no-one actually writes articles to debate on.

So what do I do folks - leave it up to prove I have balls (heaven knows I would collapse in a heap of despair and shame if some guy on the internet thought I didn't have balls), or do I remove it because it's a whinging, self-pitying, distorted over-reaction to what actually happened?

You really are an infantile, ignorant, pompous idiot aren't you? I have no time for stupid, self-righteous foul-mouthed people such as yourself, who see themselves as poor little victims but never take responsibility for their own behaviour. Maybe one day you'll grow up.
Didn't your mother ever teach you any manners?

Julius in PM. Haha, as I said... not a good moderator at all. In fact... one of the worst. Thanks for showing everyone you are just like the usual crew here I suggest you look for a different job. Bye now.

JuliusHMarx wrote:So what do I do folks - leave it up to prove I have balls (heaven knows I would collapse in a heap of despair and shame if some guy on the internet thought I didn't have balls), or do I remove it because it's a whinging, self-pitying, distorted over-reaction to what actually happened?

Put your side of it and be transparent!

JuliusHMarx wrote:So what do I do folks - leave it up to prove I have balls (heaven knows I would collapse in a heap of despair and shame if some guy on the internet thought I didn't have balls), or do I remove it because it's a whinging, self-pitying, distorted over-reaction to what actually happened?

reckoner wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:So what do I do folks - leave it up to prove I have balls (heaven knows I would collapse in a heap of despair and shame if some guy on the internet thought I didn't have balls), or do I remove it because it's a whinging, self-pitying, distorted over-reaction to what actually happened?

Put your side of it and be transparent!

You mean tell everyone that he broke the house rules twice and received a temp ban then a permanent ban - I already did that.

erm DanFed, you do know that Julius is a volunteer, right?

So is there justification in branding a race as stupid as lemon based on mere assumptions about countries you have never been too?

Controversial died with the Sex Pistols!

JuliusHMarx wrote:

reckoner wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:So what do I do folks - leave it up to prove I have balls (heaven knows I would collapse in a heap of despair and shame if some guy on the internet thought I didn't have balls), or do I remove it because it's a whinging, self-pitying, distorted over-reaction to what actually happened?

Put your side of it and be transparent!

You mean tell everyone that he broke the house rules twice and received a temp ban then a permanent ban - I already did that.

Well that sounds fair. In fairness Seifer, if you had been less out of order on your closing post you wouldn't have been banned.

legendkillarV2 wrote:So is there justification in branding a race as stupid as lemon based on mere assumptions about countries you have never been too?

Controversial died with the Sex Pistols!

It wasn't a race though - it was some countries as I understand it.

No-one wants a monoculture but then we dont want anarchy or too much division. Getting the balance right in any forum is really hard. This place might not be perfect....but where is? Its up to us to make the place we want it to be...if we slag off the forum then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy! Its not all bad here you know...

I think biscuits is on MTL where like me he was a founder. I dont post there now, I prefer the longer more reasoned debates we have on here rather than 1-2 line responses all the time with a million smilies. Duggie I think, and I'm sad to say, probably fell into ill-health as he was tender in age shall we say.

Anyway...viva la 606v2...and sure lets have good debate, even heated debate...but we dont need players and their fans getting called "scum" (it wasnt just the race stuff)...and it doesnt matter how good their other posts are, if you resort to that language you are not going to last long on any forum...606v1, 606v2, JA, MTL, tennis-x, TT-warehouse, menstennisforum, etc, etc...for which many of the posters banned here have been banned from many of the above too - behaviour tends to repeat itself.

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:So is there justification in branding a race as stupid as lemon based on mere assumptions about countries you have never been too?

Controversial died with the Sex Pistols!

It wasn't a race though - it was some countries as I understand it.

I think it was a tad silly to make an assumption and not realise that there was going to some backlash.

lydian wrote: Duggie I think, and I'm sad to say, probably fell into ill-health as he was tender in age shall we say.

I'm very sorry to hear that, I enjoyed a lot of Duggies posts

lydian wrote:Anyway...viva la 606v2...and sure lets have good debate, even heated debate...but we dont need players and their fans getting called "scum" (it wasnt just the race stuff)...and it doesnt matter how good their other posts are, if you resort to that language you are not going to last long on any forum...606v1, 606v2, JA, MTL, tennis-x, TT-warehouse, menstennisforum, etc, etc...for which many of the posters banned here have been banned from many of the above too - behaviour tends to repeat itself.

lydian wrote:No-one wants a monoculture but then we dont want anarchy or too much division. Getting the balance right in any forum is really hard. This place might not be perfect....but where is? Its up to us to make the place we want it to be...if we slag off the forum then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy! Its not all bad here you know...

I think biscuits is on MTL where like me he was a founder. I dont post there now, I prefer the longer more reasoned debates we have on here rather than 1-2 line responses all the time with a million smilies. Duggie I think, and I'm sad to say, probably fell into ill-health as he was tender in age shall we say.

Anyway...viva la 606v2...and sure lets have good debate, even heated debate...but we dont need players and their fans getting called "scum" (it wasnt just the race stuff)...and it doesnt matter how good their other posts are, if you resort to that language you are not going to last long on any forum...606v1, 606v2, JA, MTL, tennis-x, TT-warehouse, menstennisforum, etc, etc...for which many of the posters banned here have been banned from many of the above too - behaviour tends to repeat itself.

Well I agree - and I don't mean to slag off the forum at all. I still think we need to handle those with poor impulse control a bit better - perhaps by giving them longer to reflect and adjust - it's not necessarily possible to change one's behaviour overnight!

as for the other info - how interesting, I didn't know you were a cofounder of MTL, is there no end to your talents lydian! Thanks for the info about the other posters as well.

carrieg4 wrote:

lydian wrote: Duggie I think, and I'm sad to say, probably fell into ill-health as he was tender in age shall we say.

I'm very sorry to hear that, I enjoyed a lot of Duggies posts

I second that.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:So is there justification in branding a race as stupid as lemon based on mere assumptions about countries you have never been too?

Controversial died with the Sex Pistols!

It wasn't a race though - it was some countries as I understand it.

I think it was a tad silly to make an assumption and not realise that there was going to some backlash.

tad silly is not the same as racist though

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:So is there justification in branding a race as stupid as lemon based on mere assumptions about countries you have never been too?

Controversial died with the Sex Pistols!

It wasn't a race though - it was some countries as I understand it.

I think it was a tad silly to make an assumption and not realise that there was going to some backlash.

tad silly is not the same as racist though

Well the PC in me is swerving that one

Oh dear. Let me explain it to you. If I had called all africans stupid and then claimed the reason was their race, that would have been racist. If I claimed that all africans had low IQ because they are africans, that would have been racist.

It is not racist to claim that a number of African countries are low IQ (actually it is a fact if you do some research). It is not racist to claim that some african countries have stupid people in abundance and that is the reason for their troubles.

These are not racist. Racism is the belief that ones race is superior to others purely due to race (where facts are absent). It is also defined as the hatred to a race. Neither of these things are what I did. I did not claim all africans were stupid or that all african countries are stupid. Nor was I literally claiming every african person and country has low IQ.

Again, you read in what you wanted to read.

DanFed wrote:Oh dear. Let me explain it to you. If I had called all africans stupid and then claimed the reason was their race, that would have been racist. If I claimed that all africans had low IQ because they are africans, that would have been racist.

It is not racist to claim that a number of African countries are low IQ (actually it is a fact if you do some research). It is not racist to claim that some african countries have stupid people in abundance and that is the reason for their troubles.

These are not racist. Racism is the belief that ones race is superior to others purely due to race (where facts are absent). It is also defined as the hatred to a race. Neither of these things are what I did. I did not claim all africans were stupid or that all african countries are stupid. Nor was I literally claiming every african person and country has low IQ.

Again, you read in what you wanted to read.

But why bring it up on a tennis forum?

DanFed wrote:
It is not racist to claim that a number of African countries are low IQ (actually it is a fact if you do some research).

Might not be racist but this is not a fact either as far as I am aware. What's your source for this?

Yeah carrieg and reckoner...I've not seen a verifiable post from Duggie for a couple of years now - and he was a frequent poster.
Lol reckoner...oh my "talents" are very finite...partic when I step onto a tennis court. There were a few of us from 606v1 who helped shape MTL from a beta- platform to what it is now with the primary drive coming from Usman. The site was set up in response not to the end of 606v1 early last year but late 2008 when v1 was going down the pipes with wums, etc. But as I say its a site that has alot of much younger posters, so the posts are very stoccato on style...and more recently its taken more of a Nadal bashing turn...but then it always had a fair number of Nadal bashers to start with...probably another reason I dont frequent there as much. I dont mind people attacking Nadal's play...fine, whatever...but for some reason it always seems to go OTT with Nadal vs. other players. None of us want anodyne, clipped debate full of yes pleases, and tip-toeing about topics...I'd actually like to see a much diverser range of topics discussed besides the same old 3-4 players. There is a huge amount of "stuff" to discuss about tennis...but when a forum becomes tribal it just gets narrower and narrower...and posters like Seifer lead forums down that path.

"DanFed"...is it ok to generalise a player AND their fans as "Scum"?
Should a forum tolerate that?

Guys there has been a lot of to and fro on this thread, firstly regarding the procedure you believe moderators should take.

There is a set process that we follow, a lot of work are done behind the scenes where we assist and corroborate with each other on how situations should be handled.

The situation pertaining to individual posters are confidential for a reason. We don't need to know everyone's business. We are all here to talk about those sports we are passionate about and to that end anything else is up to the poster himself to declare to others if he/she so wishes.

Some posters don't want everyone to know they have recieved a ban, and others don't care.

As for the actions taken by any moderator it is done on a basis of careful thought and following a specified procedure.

You may think things aren't done in a way or procedure you may approve, but the system we have works very well and is looked at on a regular basis to see if it can be improved upon.

Please remember at the end of the day, we are volunteers doing the best that we can do and also consider the fact that in some cases it can become a rather unthankful task to moderate, we all cop criticism for what we do, and sometimes it gets to a point where we ourselves need to take a breather and step away, we are only human after all.

The reality of the forum is we need to debate in a mature manner and with respect to one another, you can disagree with a poster without being controversial to the point of being offensive, disrespectful or plainly just being petulant.

Play the ball and not the poster, and appreciate the job the moderators are doing to the best of their abilities, it is after all for the benefit of 606V2.

That LK I tell you. Rubbish moderator!! He needed to upgrade to evolve into a much more refined poster in setting the high standards and pushing the boundaries on this forum

I swear I was just hacked by a Wum!