IRFU central contracts

First topic message reminder :

I'm a big fan of the central contract system (not a good time for an Englishman as his cricket team has been royally sha88ed by Biltog's lot). But I went on to the IRFU site http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/search.php and did a search for them as there was no obvious link elsewhere on the site.

No results found.

was the response.

Who's actually centrally-contracted for Ireland?

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:For the record Earls is a better winger than Trimble, Luke & McFadden. He is also a better centre than Cave, McFadden & Paddy Wallace.

Of course he is. Italy and Russia are still having nightmares about him .

Well, thats something. Russia won't be having nightmares about McFadden or Trimble anyway.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:For the record Earls is a better winger than Trimble, Luke & McFadden. He is also a better centre than Cave, McFadden & Paddy Wallace.

Of course he is. Italy and Russia are still having nightmares about him .

Well, thats something. Russia won't be having nightmares about McFadden or Trimble anyway.

Hence none of them should be on central contracts, which is my point...unlike yours which (as usual) is to big up everyone who plays for Munster and slag off everyone who doesn't.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:For the record Earls is a better winger than Trimble, Luke & McFadden. He is also a better centre than Cave, McFadden & Paddy Wallace.

Of course he is. Italy and Russia are still having nightmares about him .

Well, thats something. Russia won't be having nightmares about McFadden or Trimble anyway.

Hence none of them should be on central contracts, which is my point...unlike yours which (as usual) is to big up everyone who plays for Munster and slag off everyone who doesn't.

couldnt resist joining all the eye rolling

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:For the record Earls is a better winger than Trimble, Luke & McFadden. He is also a better centre than Cave, McFadden & Paddy Wallace.

Of course he is. Italy and Russia are still having nightmares about him .

Well, thats something. Russia won't be having nightmares about McFadden or Trimble anyway.

Hence none of them should be on central contracts, which is my point...unlike yours which (as usual) is to big up everyone who plays for Munster and slag off everyone who doesn't.

You started the slagging match ....

You've missed my point anyway. The clubs are the ones who benefit from having players with central contracts - otherwise Stephen Ferris is going to be looking for an awful lot of dosh from Ulster and possibly rarely get to play him and Ulster will have to fund his cover. Even Paddy Wallace deserves his contract because Ulster are going to have to provide cover for him as he will make most the Ireland squads as will Rory Best. They are also more likely to get injured on international duty due to the intensity at that level.

Also useful to have those who would be in high demand slightly removed from who they negotiate with for their wages. Ulster would probably give Tommy Bowe their entire budget so there would be nothing left for anyone else.

rodders wrote:

Yes but that is very rare. Generally speaking the central contract players are always picked, regardless of their form or others.

Examples please!

Donnacha O'Callaghan, Dennis Leamy, Ronan O'Gara, Tomas O'Leary, Keith Earls, Gordon D'arcy, Paddy Wallace, Jamie Heaslip.....

Surely the answer is to make central contracts harder to get. You need a core group of players who will be in the squad no matter what. They might not be in the matchday 22 if they aren't playing well but they will always be there or thereabouts. The above players fit the bill. Only O'Callaghan has really been given more chances than he deserves- D'Arcy too, but no-one is putting their hands up to oust D'Arcy or Heaslip.

Say if we have 15 central contracts and those guys are always in the 35 man training group. Thats all their contract guarantees. Then the best 20 provincial players. Then the best 15 from that group of players.

There are players that I can't imagine not being involved with any Irish squad if fit at present. NOT the 22. The squad.

Cian Healy, Rory Best, Mike Ross, Paul O'Connell, Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Jonathon Sexton, Brian O'Driscoll, Tommy Bowe and Rob Kearney. Maybe thats all we need. 10 central contracts. And for the over 30s it should be rather harder to get one renewed, if not impossible.

And on this one Sin E is right. It would hit the provinces budgets hard enough. It's overly simplistic to say the pot of money would be divided between the provinces. Divided how? Based on the number of internationals they provide? They would need to know that before the start of each season otherwise it would be impossible for the provinces to budget- if they are picking as rodders suggests, they wouldn't. Divided equally? Would cause a budget surplus for some and deficit for others.

The central contracts system is THE biggest reason why Ireland are retaining their best players and Wales and Scotland aren't in my view.

What would happen if/when the Eurozone applies a common tax system (the only way to maintain a common currency). Tax incentives locally might well then become impossible.

Notch wrote:And on this one Sin E is right. It would hit the provinces budgets hard enough. It's overly simplistic to say the pot of money would be divided between the provinces. Divided how? Based on the number of internationals they provide? They would need to know that before the start of each season otherwise it would be impossible for the provinces to budget- if they are picking as rodders suggests, they wouldn't. Divided equally? Would cause a budget surplus for some and deficit for others.

The central contracts system is THE biggest reason why Ireland are retaining their best players and Wales and Scotland aren't in my view.

Don't believe so in our case, Notch, reckon only having two teams is far more of a hurdle imo

That is true Asbo. Scotland is a different case, I was maybe over-generalising a bit.

Portnoy wrote:What would happen if/when the Eurozone applies a common tax system (the only way to maintain a common currency). Tax incentives locally might well then become impossible.

If that happened there would be more important things that rugby to deal with.

Notch wrote:And on this one Sin E is right. It would hit the provinces budgets hard enough. It's overly simplistic to say the pot of money would be divided between the provinces. Divided how? Based on the number of internationals they provide? They would need to know that before the start of each season otherwise it would be impossible for the provinces to budget- if they are picking as rodders suggests, they wouldn't. Divided equally? Would cause a budget surplus for some and deficit for others.

Notch each province would get an equal and allocated wage budget the way they do for the academy and it would be up to them how they spend it. External player recruitment should go through the IRFU anyway.

That way all player wages are directly subsidised by the IRFU and all are equal in terms of Irish selection. If a province themselves can generate additional revenue that they want to spend on wages then they are free to do so.

In terms of player cover, well it is the job of every professional club level coach to ensure that they have sufficient depth to cover international call ups. Ireland is not a special case.

The provinces should not know how many players they will be losing during the international window at the start of the season, that is just ludicrous. Thats the challenge that comes with the job.

The idea that the Irish team should be selected 2 seasons ahead so that the provinces can recruit cover is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Unfortunately that is the system we have and a major reason why our national side is going from bad to worse.

Portnoy wrote:What would happen if/when the Eurozone applies a common tax system (the only way to maintain a common currency). Tax incentives locally might well then become impossible.

Salaries will be adjusted to suit I assume. Unless the Eurozone applies a salary cap for all sportsmen. That would be interesting.

Thats fine if you think that. But it will mean losing players oversees. It just seems more efficient in rugby terms but less efficient economically. I think it would damage the provinces and if players do start leaving we could have less time with them in Ireland camps.

I still maintain we only need tweaks and a less conservative selection policy.

Notch wrote:The central contracts system is THE biggest reason why Ireland are retaining their best players and Wales and Scotland aren't in my view.

I would say that the Ospreys are in a far better place than either Ulster or Munster, with a much smaller budget. The scarlets aren't too shabby either. If we're retaining our best players and they aren't then we are in trouble.

Don't believe the spin in the Irish media. Wales and Scotland are in a better place than us imo. They have young talented sides on the up and with far less money and resources than we do.

Notch wrote:Thats fine if you think that. But it will mean losing players oversees. It just seems more efficient in rugby terms but less efficient economically. I think it would damage the provinces and if players do start leaving we could have less time with them in Ireland camps.

I still maintain we only need tweaks and a less conservative selection policy.

Losing who? Explain?

The wages would be the same but its the provincial coach who decides who merits what salary? Appearance fees would be paid on top for the IRFU.

Are you saying players would leave because they aren't guaranteed an Ireland spot?

I guarantee very few of our players would get a better deal overseas. Name me one major club who would give D'arcy a 2 year contract.

Its not in the financial interest of any of the Southern players >28 to move overseas, with or with a CC.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:Thats fine if you think that. But it will mean losing players oversees. It just seems more efficient in rugby terms but less efficient economically. I think it would damage the provinces and if players do start leaving we could have less time with them in Ireland camps.

I still maintain we only need tweaks and a less conservative selection policy.

Losing who? Explain?

The wages would be the same but its the provincial coach who decides who merits what salary? Appearance fees would be paid on top for the IRFU.

Are you saying players would leave because they aren't guaranteed an Ireland spot?

No, I'm saying players may leave because they can't get as good a salary under the new system.

You're reference to D'Arcy is begging the question, because I don't believe he should have a central contract and many people who supports central contracts don't either.

Say the pot of money gets divided four ways. Ulster get 30%, Munster get 30%, Leinster get 30%, Connacht get 10%. And the composition of the squad is this; Leinster provide 50% of the players, Munster 25%, Ulster 20% and Connacht 5%. Now this means that Leinster are going to have to reduce their budget as suddenly, with the addition of the the players on central contracts, they aren't going to be able to afford to retain all of their current squad. So they may reduce the number of squad players they have. And then, the double whammy is that they are missing players all through the season. So that lack of depth costs them dearly. Or they reduce salaries wholesale and players get bigger and better offers overseas. Meanwhile Munster and Ulster have a surplus, despite producing less international quality players. In this instance, Leinster would be punished for developing international players.

Your addition of the idea of hefty appearance fees is a good one. Get paid as you play. But there isn't much security in it for the players in a career with little job security and long-term future as it is. This could also tempt players overseas.

Notch those are fair points. No system is perfect.

Yes Leinster would be penalised under the system I am suggesting but the tail should not wag the dog. An additional payment per player supplied could be made as compensation.

In terms of players getting less salary, well I dispute that, the budget is the same but it the province that desides a players worth not the IRFU. The appearance fee is made up by the IRFU.

It could work. I just look at the slightly dysfunctional Welsh system. Players have left Wales fro France, and it's not worth the regions getting into a bidding war with the French clubs because they know that those star players are going to be missing on international duty for long stretches of the season.

We could do what the Welsh do in a more efficient better way for sure, but the current system allows us to have the likes of Ferris and Bowe to promote Ulster Rugby and play in the bigger games for their provinces as well letting the IRFU get unfettered access to those players.

I think we have many advantages in our system that have been undone by the conservatism of those in charge of selection and contract negotiations.

Notch wrote:Say the pot of money gets divided four ways. Ulster get 30%, Munster get 30%, Leinster get 30%, Connacht get 10%. And the composition of the squad is this; Leinster provide 50% of the players, Munster 25%, Ulster 20% and Connacht 5%. Now this means that Leinster are going to have to reduce their budget as suddenly, with the addition of the the players on central contracts, they aren't going to be able to afford to retain all of their current squad. So they may reduce the number of squad players they have. And then, the double whammy is that they are missing players all through the season. So that lack of depth costs them dearly. Or they reduce salaries wholesale and players get bigger and better offers overseas. Meanwhile Munster and Ulster have a surplus, despite producing less international quality players. In this instance, Leinster would be punished for developing international players.

Your addition of the idea of hefty appearance fees is a good one. Get paid as you play. But there isn't much security in it for the players in a career with little job security and long-term future as it is. This could also tempt players overseas.

Would that be a bad thing? Damn posh boys need a dose of reality

Notch man, I just don't believe any player should have an advantage when it comes to national selection.

How we resolve that is open to debate but I think my suggestion would be a step forward if not the definitive solution.

Rods, but they don't. Gordon D'Arcy was selected as first choice No. 12 for Ireland and Leinster without a central contract.

I still think the IRFU are compensating Leinster now by putting him on a central contract for the next 2 years.

You also have to bear in mind for some of the older players that without a central contract they wouldn't be arsed touring if they were to be just sitting on the bench. When ROG said at the world cup he was going to retire, McNaughton was on quick enough to tell him he couldn't.

Even with Paddy Wallace this season on central contract - even though he didn't travel he was obliged to keep himself fit and get on a plane to NZ when on holidays.

ROG said that the season before last (tour that Heislip got red carded) he asked to remain at home for the summer tour (his wife was having a baby) and he was refused permission. Wally's wife was also having a baby, but he still had to go and play a few games, but was let come home just in time for the birth. We all saw what happened when Henry, Heislip etc. were running the backrow

If either of them were on provincial contracts with appearance money they could have told the IRFU to get lost because there would have been no incentive to travel.

Sin lets agree to disagree old buddie pal, we probably won't find enough common ground here on this one. I take note of your points and respect your point of view.

Have a one me

If either of them were on provincial contracts with appearance money they could have told the IRFU to get lost because there would have been no incentive to travel.

So you compensate players who tour or are in international training squads, rather than just paying the ones who get game time.

rodders wrote:Sin lets agree to disagree old buddie pal, we won't ever find any common ground on any subject. I take note of your points and respect your point of view.

Have a one me

Fixed that Rodders. No Charge

Thank you and goodbye .

Mickado wrote:

If either of them were on provincial contracts with appearance money they could have told the IRFU to get lost because there would have been no incentive to travel.

So you compensate players who tour or are in international training squads, rather than just paying the ones who get game time.

I'd say the same for EPS players Mick (now that I'm no longer a central contracts fan after hearing this lot).

Something like (for England) £500-1000/day/player compensation to their club during IWs plus £25-50/player/minute played. All of which would be directly allowable against their subsequent season's player cap.

rodders wrote:Notch man, I just don't believe any player should have an advantage when it comes to national selection.

Neither do I.

I think DOC being selected ahead of Ryan in the 6 Nations was just a bad selection by Kidney. With D'arcy, you could argue there's no one better. It's a weak area for us. But then again Kidney hasn't thrown any of the alternatives into the fray to see if they can do better.

Kidney is just conservative when it comes to selection. It's nothing to do with contracts. It's just the way he is. And he was very successful with a top class and settled side like Munster. But Ireland need changes. We should be in transition. And Kidney's conservative selections are now a hindrance.

We're a quarter of the way into the RWC cycle, and we haven't done anything to change the team that failed at the last one. Only injury to POC got Ryan into the team and he's proven to be excellent. Surely even this coaching team won't drop him again. So that could be one change.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I think DOC being selected ahead of Ryan in the 6 Nations was just a bad selection by Kidney. With D'arcy, you could argue there's no one better. It's a weak area for us. But then again Kidney hasn't thrown any of the alternatives into the fray to see if they can do better.

Hello - BOD/Earls in the first test in NZ for starters!

Kidney is just conservative when it comes to selection. It's nothing to do with contracts. It's just the way he is. And he was very successful with a top class and settled side like Munster. But Ireland need changes. We should be in transition. And Kidney's conservative selections are now a hindrance.

You think starting Murray in a world cup game is conservative, or giving Zebo his first cap against the ABs

We're a quarter of the way into the RWC cycle, and we haven't done anything to change the team that failed at the last one. Only injury to POC got Ryan into the team and he's proven to be excellent. Surely even this coaching team won't drop him again. So that could be one change.

There have been far too many injuries over the last while to do any more experimentation. Have you forgotten what happened in the England game in the 6Ns? Missing POC & BOD you would have brought in more kids to the slaughter

rodders wrote:Sin lets agree to disagree old buddie pal, we probably won't find enough common ground here on this one. I take note of your points and respect your point of view.

Have a one me

Well, rods I respect you as a person, but your logic is just daft

The big question no one has asked, twixt the bickering, is:

If Central Contracts are the way to go for Ireland, why do we have such a mediocre team? They are not working, in their present format, for the International side. They are however, working for the Provinces.

How to resolve this great disparity in performance?

I suggest a yearly review. NO 2-year contracts. All contracts to be reviewed and renewed, on a yearly and strict, meritocratic basis.

That would keep em on their toes.

We would have very few players playing in Ireland if their contracts are on a yearly basis. These guys have 10 years or so to make money, no one would agree to that, central contracts have their good sides, the main and really only problem in my opinion is that you're more or less guaranteed a spot in the squad if you have one.

Thomond wrote:We would have very few players playing in Ireland if their contracts are on a yearly basis. These guys have 10 years or so to make money, no one would agree to that, central contracts have their good sides, the main and really only problem in my opinion is that you're more or less guaranteed a spot in the squad if you have one.

That's been a huge problem. In any successful business, a tighter performance-reviewing process, breeds success.

The old stalwarts would not like it. It would hit them hardest. The newbies however, would love it. It would make it a level playing-field, for them to break through. The oldies would have to play their way back in - if they didn't match up to their reps. Win-win. We get the best in-form players thro. Darcy & DOC would be gone by this method. As would ROG now. Paddy Wallace, Leamy et al - would have gone 2 years ago.

The Irish attitude, in trusting only in experienced-heads and the false-loyalty it encompasses, has to change, if we are to become competitive in any sport. That's our real problem.

And Im sick of repeating it. That was my main worry, when Kidney took charge 4 years ago. I feared that the status would not only remain the quo - it would get worse. It turns out I was right.

Time for a complete overhaul of the IRFU's strategy.

I thought the Irish players stayed in Ireland due to loyalty to their provinces. They're not interested in money (some of the numbers thrown around on here MUST be made up) but proudly representing their country.

Agree in general, I'm kind of like Stag though if a guy is good enough he is young enough, problem is our guys are old and not that great. Same with Trap he is Italian but he had a chance to really shake things up post that debacle in PolKraine but stuck with more or less the same. Another I want gone and have for a long time.


It's a bit of both Thunor. They are on incredibly good money and the figures being thrown about are pretty correct. 200k and above is what most of our better guys are getting. If you're on a rolling contract though in Ireland and get offered a secure deal in Uk/France for similar money but a 2/3 year deal you are pretty likely to take it. Job security is one of our primary wants on the business side of things. (Maslows hierarchy or nf needs and all that)

HammerofThunor wrote:I thought the Irish players stayed in Ireland due to loyalty to their provinces. They're not interested in money (some of the numbers thrown around on here MUST be made up) but proudly representing their country.

Ha! Loyalty costs geld too, Thunor. Its a mix of both. The tax-incentives give us a great edge. As does the Player Protection side of things(provincially - not internationally). I just happen to believe, that we are protecting some players, who are well past their international sell-by date.

Gibson wrote:why do we have such a mediocre team?

I thought you were one of the people who agreed with me on the main reason.

Nobody thought central contracts were a problem before the teams performances dipped. I've recently also heard people mentioning that our provincial rivalries are to great! They didn't seem to be to great when we won a Grand Slam. And why do people think our rivalries are any greater than anyone else's internal domestic rivalries?

People are scraping the barrel looking for reasons for Ireland losing most of their games. Here's the three main reasons

1. Our head coach is tactically out of his depth, and is playing a predictable brand of rugby that is easy to stop.
2. Our forwards coach thinks we can play like giant Afrikaaner's even though we're not giant Afrikaaner's
3. Our attack coach isn't actually an attack coach, but a defence coach who's doubled his workload.

The evidence on the pitch whenever Ireland play. Aimless, clueless and very beatable. And we know from every other competition those players play in, that they are better than that.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Gibson wrote:why do we have such a mediocre team?

I thought you were one of the people who agreed with me on the main reason.

Nobody thought central contracts were a problem before the teams performances dipped. I've recently also heard people mentioning that our provincial rivalries are to great! They didn't seem to be to great when we won a Grand Slam. And why do people think our rivalries are any greater than anyone else's internal domestic rivalries?

People are scraping the barrel looking for reasons for Ireland losing most of their games. Here's the three main reasons

1. Our head coach is tactically out of his depth, and is playing a predictable brand of rugby that is easy to stop.
2. Our forwards coach thinks we can play like giant Afrikaaner's even though we're not giant Afrikaaner's
3. Our attack coach isn't actually an attack coach, but a defence coach who's doubled his workload.

The evidence on the pitch whenever Ireland play. Aimless, clueless and very beatable. And we know from every other competition those players play in, that they are better than that.

Totally agree. Can you believe that people are blaming our problems on our provinces. Its comical

FR, they were an issue until Kearney had the balls to bring it up prior to the 09 6N. If Munster lads didn't show passion for the shirt when they were winnign HCs why can't the same be said of Leinster?

It's been suggested in the past (no actual numbers or references given) that the provinces are on about the same as the English cap. Would this be including the central contracts? If not they're more like the French levels (not the crazy ass top levels) than the English.

Feckless Rogue wrote:


1. Our head coach is tactically out of his depth, and is playing a predictable brand of rugby that is easy to stop.

I dont exactly agree with you on this. I think that Declan does get his tactics right on fair amount of occasions. I really feel that its a motivational thing as well as the lack of a backs coach.

Its not so much Declan's tactics but his organisation that i have an issue with and ultimately he is responsible for that.

I am with Gibbo on the yearly review, that will have to generate some hunger in the young hopefulls and force the old faitfulls to fight for their position.

Billy, my taking from it is we're playing a game that as a nation doesn't suit us. You give that game to South Africa and they win a lot of the time. We are not a nation of big bruisers and probably never will be we can match team's and better their physicality at times but more often that not are found wanting.

Thomond wrote:FR, they were an issue until Kearney had the balls to bring it up prior to the 09 6N. If Munster lads didn't show passion for the shirt when they were winnign HCs why can't the same be said of Leinster?

Not too sure you've got that right. What Kearney said was that he envied the togetherness of the Munster team and mentioned the Munster v All Blacks game where passion got Munster a long way (and Timmy Ryan a contract with Tuolon!)

Personally I go with Alan Quinlan's view about the difference between international & club. Some players can't cope with being out of their club comfort zone. Sexton & Heislip are two obvious examples of this.

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:FR, they were an issue until Kearney had the balls to bring it up prior to the 09 6N. If Munster lads didn't show passion for the shirt when they were winnign HCs why can't the same be said of Leinster?

Not too sure you've got that right. What Kearney said was that he envied the togetherness of the Munster team and mentioned the Munster v All Blacks game where passion got Munster a long way (and Timmy Ryan a contract with Tuolon!)

Personally I go with Alan Quinlan's view about the difference between international & club. Some players can't with being out of their club comfort zone. Sexton & Heislip are two obvious examples of this.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Sin lets agree to disagree old buddie pal, we probably won't find enough common ground here on this one. I take note of your points and respect your point of view.

Have a one me

Well, rods I respect you as a person, but your logic is just daft

Have a good one sin

Thomond wrote:Billy, my taking from it is we're playing a game that as a nation doesn't suit us. You give that game to South Africa and they win a lot of the time. We are not a nation of big bruisers and probably never will be we can match team's and better their physicality at times but more often that not are found wanting.

Thomond, playing this game has worked on a few occasions against sides like NZ and Australia recently. The tactics of Declan are not the major issue in my opinion, its the whole set up of the coaching team and his motivational skills that are my concerns and that falls directly onto the shoulders of Kidney and why i feel that he has not done his job in adressing these.

Gibson wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:FR, they were an issue until Kearney had the balls to bring it up prior to the 09 6N. If Munster lads didn't show passion for the shirt when they were winnign HCs why can't the same be said of Leinster?

Not too sure you've got that right. What Kearney said was that he envied the togetherness of the Munster team and mentioned the Munster v All Blacks game where passion got Munster a long way (and Timmy Ryan a contract with Tuolon!)

Personally I go with Alan Quinlan's view about the difference between international & club. Some players can't with being out of their club comfort zone. Sexton & Heislip are two obvious examples of this.

You can laugh Gibbo but he does have a point with Sexton

eirebilly wrote:

Thomond wrote:Billy, my taking from it is we're playing a game that as a nation doesn't suit us. You give that game to South Africa and they win a lot of the time. We are not a nation of big bruisers and probably never will be we can match team's and better their physicality at times but more often that not are found wanting.

Thomond, playing this game has worked on a few occasions against sides like NZ and Australia recently. The tactics of Declan are not the major issue in my opinion, its the whole set up of the coaching team and his motivational skills that are my concerns and that falls directly onto the shoulders of Kidney and why i feel that he has not done his job in adressing these.

Exactly, we get it tork every now and then consistency is our problem. Our tactics are a heap of shoite we play a game that by and large we are not physically able to play.


Sin if Sexton and Heaslip haven't done it, what have TOL, DOC, ROG, Murray been for the last while?

[quote="Thomond"][quote="eirebilly"]

Thomond wrote:Billy, my taking from it is we're playing a game that as a nation doesn't suit us. You give that game to South Africa and they win a lot of the time. We are not a nation of big bruisers and probably never will be we can match team's and better their physicality at times but more often that not are found wanting.

Exactly, we get it tork every now and then consistency is our problem. Our tactics are a heap of shoite we play a game that by and large we are not physically able to play.


Sin if Sexton and Heaslip haven't done it, what have TOL, DOC, ROG, Murray been for the last while?

Or another way of describing it, Irish teams can't do high intensity two weeks running (i.e., Leinster & losing a couple of Magners finals playing the week after a HC. I don't think the intensity of Leinster v Ulster would be any greater than playing NZ back-to-back, yet even Leinster have not been able to do it.

Sexton has never imposed himself on the game internationally, but Heaslip has - I think it all came unstuck when he got red carded against NZ and has lost confidence since then.

I'm not talking about form (TOL, DOC & ROG have all done it in the past). Murray has only a few caps and he still looks more comfortable than Sexton.

A better way of describing it might be to take Earls as an example - nightmare first game for the Lions, destroyed by the press, but he came back from that and now looks comfortable no matter where he plays and he is shifted around a lot.

Your prayers might be answered yet. Thomond:

Big name hunting
While the Brumbies have performed brilliantly with a squad of no-names, they are looking at some prominent identities to bolster their ranks. Their pursuit of David Pocock continues, with the Wallabies captain telling the Force to give him some space until the end of the season. We've also been told the [b]Brumbies have made ''an audacious approach'' for Irish utility Ronan O'Gara.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/passing-comment-sparks-more-unrest-20120712-21yzd.html#ixzz21p1wr6So

Thank Christ. Would be a good move for him financially and would allow us fast track JJ would have liked ROG there to help him (don't know how muc hof a menotr ROG would be) but interesting if it happens but I wouldn't be especting it.

How long is christian leahlifano out for? I doubt ROG would start ahead of him