Rogers Cup Thread

[The Special Juan]

First topic message reminder :

There doesn't seem to be a Rogers Cup thread up so I thought I'd stick one up. I suppose the biggest question is "How will the Djokovic, Murray and Del Potro do after competing in the Olympics on Sunday?"

Looking at the draw ( http://www.rogerscup.com/men/english/singlesDraw.php ) Tomic could play Djokovic 2nd round, Del Potro v Stepanek/Dolgopolov 2nd round and Murray v Raonic 3rd round possibly.

[The Special Juan]

Is Raonic the favourite tomorrow? Perhaps not, but I think it's about 50-50. Hopefully Murray sleeps well and he's reasonably fresh. It's about 5 o'clock in Toronto so bed early Mr Murray and we'll see you tomorrow!!

[carrieg4]

Haven't got a live stream but seems to be going Murrays way

Try www.livescorehunter.com.

Thanks LF

[laverfan]

Haas is playing pretty well against Simon.

[laverfan]

Nice clean 40-0 with couple of aces. 6-2. first set for Haas.

[The Special Juan]

Tommy Haas..... How old is he now? How can someone play better right at the end of their career than they probably ever have before. I know he's an ex-World Number 2 but still....

[CaledonianCraig]

Tommy Haas..... How old is he now? How can someone play better right at the end of their career than they probably ever have before. I know he's an ex-World Number 2 but still....

Different players peak at different ages and also some players can benefit from their experience.

[Danny_1982]

It's a growing theme in tennis. Players used to peak between 21-25, but we are seeing so many peaking later than this now.

Ferrer, Fish, Tsonga, Haas, Tipsaravic... All well over the conventional peak, and yet all at their best well after 25. Not to mention the age of the current world number 1 and Wimbledon champion.

And Haas doing what he's doing at his age is amazing.

[laverfan]

Haas is 34 years old. He has had injuries. He just won Halle (Grass), was in the final of Washington (HC) and Hamburg (Clay).

Watching him play now, makes me think about this match, that too during Federer's peak.

http://bit.ly/RrafZU

PS: Looking forward to Haas-Stepanek, then possibly Haas-Djokovic.

[laverfan]

Hawkeye system failure.

[laverfan]

In six games, Djokovic BPs saved 6/6, Tomic 4/5. WTA?

[laverfan]

Interminable slicing. Show us your FH Tomic!

[laverfan]

Tomic falling apart. 6-2 Djokovic with a double break.

[socal1976]

Really nice performance by both Novak and Andy. The draw is opening up with both Tsonga and del po out. Really like how Novak handled the slice especially on the forehand side which has given him some problems in months.

[HM Murdock]

Really nice performance by both Novak and Andy. The draw is opening up with both Tsonga and del po out. Really like how Novak handled the slice especially on the forehand side which has given him some problems in months.

Both would normally be a clear level above anyone else left in the tournament, so it will be interesting to see if and when the Olympics take their toll.

The defeats of Tsonga and Del Potro have made Novak's side of the draw look much nicer!

I'm surprised at how much I care about this tournament now. If Novak can come away with 1000 points and his first title since the start of April, I think that makes a big difference to the rest of his season. His confidence needs a boost!

[JuliusHMarx]

The defeats of Tsonga and Del Potro have made Novak's side of the draw look much nicer!

As nice as a cupcake?

[HM Murdock]

The defeats of Tsonga and Del Potro have made Novak's side of the draw look much nicer!

As nice as a cupcake?

I thought Stepanek had the cupcake? (Sorry Socal! )

[Guest]

Some intriguing matches later.

Shall watch the Cilic and Tipsy match.

Murray will be relieved to see that Raonic is in doubles action first today.

Haas and Stepanek in a battle of the oldies will be quite the nostalgic to some.

[laverfan]

Fancy Haas to beat Stepanek today.

[Guest]

I shall be in the Stepanek camp. If he plays as aggressive like he did against Delpo, I fancy him to take it

[The Special Juan]

I felt nostalgic this morning so I had a look at highlights of Murray v Stepanek Wimbledon 2005 (as you do). So much of his game has changed but some has stayed the same too. For example, Murray was such a clay court player in those days as all he did was long rallies during which he hit it back to his opponent. He doesn't do that so much these days thankfully. I lost count of the number of backhand return winners he hit though. Stepanek served and volleyed so many times in the highlights too which is fun to see as people rarely do that these days.

I also had a look on Youtube for "novak djokovic wimbledon 2005" but all the results were for Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and, most staggering of all, Venus Williams v Lindsay Davenport.

[lydian]

Stepanek is still a handful on song...just shows what aggressive players can still do in the game...and I class Haas in there too. I think this is one of the reasons many of the older players do well - because they play an older style of tennis that is more aggressive, and the younger players are not equipped with the skills to handle it by and large.

Agree Special Juan, Murray was still a claycourter in a way back then...after all he had come out of the Barcelona Academy. Its taken some time to adapt his game fully as an aggressive allrounder, and grip-issues aside he is getting there and starting to fulfil the promise we first saw when he beat Roddick as a 18 year old.

[The Special Juan]

I suppose the older players have to be agressive. Aside from Ferrer I don't think many are capable of running around the baseline for hours anymore.

A bit more on Tommy Haas, I realise that a lot of players are still playing well in their very late 20's-30's but Haas is 34, has had numerous injuries but still comes back and plays. It's a fantastic fairytale-like story.

I tried looking for highlights of Murray v Roddick 2006 but, funnily enough, I couldn't find it. The whole match is there but nothing shorter.

[lydian]

I see its been rain delays all day...geez!

[laverfan]

Tennis may start @ Toronto.

http://m.rogerscup.com/men/en/twitter.php

I was hoping iC would provide some updates.

[Guest]

Poxy rain.

Don't think I could survive another Murray re-run.

[lydian]

Yep hate these delays! Especially when top class tennis matches await!

[socal1976]

The defeats of Tsonga and Del Potro have made Novak's side of the draw look much nicer!

As nice as a cupcake?

Actually out of the top two seeds again Novak had a much more difficult draw than murray at the outset. A draw committee cupcake is a cupcake baked for you at the outset. If anyone got a cupcake it wasn't Novak who drew Del Po and Tsonga in his half. It is not his fault that those olympians didn't make the transition as effectively. In fact they basically put every dangerous player in Novak's half and gave him the tougher opening match. This draw from the draw committee was more like a turd taco when considering the fact that fedal didn't show up.

[socal1976]

Really nice performance by both Novak and Andy. The draw is opening up with both Tsonga and del po out. Really like how Novak handled the slice especially on the forehand side which has given him some problems in months.

Both would normally be a clear level above anyone else left in the tournament, so it will be interesting to see if and when the Olympics take their toll.

The defeats of Tsonga and Del Potro have made Novak's side of the draw look much nicer!

I'm surprised at how much I care about this tournament now. If Novak can come away with 1000 points and his first title since the start of April, I think that makes a big difference to the rest of his season. His confidence needs a boost!

Yes murdoch I hope novak just gets his rhythmn back and lifts the trophy. I am surprised by how much I care as well because in the grand scheme of things in terms of the points race it will be huge for who will be year end #1, he can't let an opportunity like this slide with his two nearest rivals taking a break.

[Guest]

Now it's Agassi/Nadal.

Stop raining will you!

[laverfan]

If anyone got a cupcake it wasn't Novak who drew Del Po and Tsonga in his half.

... then who was it? Murray?

Djokovic has Tipsarevic, Cilic, Tsonga, Mayer, Del Potro, Simon, Nishikori.

Tsonga and Del Potro lost because they were knackered.

Murray has Raonic, Kohli, Isner, Berdych, Gasquet, Fish, Monaco.

Raonic, Isner, Berdych are very good threats to Murray.

SoCal... Why is this a 'cupcake' draw?

[The Special Juan]

Murray withdraws. Cites knee injury as the reason. I suppose it makes sense to withdraw now, a) Because he wants to be fit for the USO, b) He didn't have many points to defend, c) He has a lot of points to defend in Cincinatti.

[The Special Juan]

I think it's a good move from Murray. He's defended the small amount of points he won last year so doesn't need to Murray about that. I think after running about on grass for the past 8 weeks he's not had time to practice on a hard court and come in to Toronto and overdone it. An announcement will follow on whether he plays Cincinnati next week. I think he will; he has to. And besides, he doesn't want to wear himself out for next week.

[CaledonianCraig]

I think it's a good move from Murray. He's defended the small amount of points he won last year so doesn't need to Murray about that. I think after running about on grass for the past 8 weeks he's not had time to practice on a hard court and come in to Toronto and overdone it. An announcement will follow on whether he plays Cincinnati next week. I think he will; he has to. And besides, he doesn't want to wear himself out for next week.

Spot on. Rest up and concentrate on recharging the batteries and being 100% fit for the bigger challenges that lie ahead.

[lydian]

Too much talk of cake going on...I prefer the term cakewalk to cupcake...what do others think?

Shame about Murray but really no surprise...

[laverfan]

In other news, Rafael Nadal has withdrawn from next week's Western & Southern Open due to left knee soreness that has sidelined him since Wimbledon.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/08/32/Toronto-Thursday-Murray-Withdraws.aspx

[laverfan]

Murray withdraws. Cites knee injury as the reason. I suppose it makes sense to withdraw now, a) Because he wants to be fit for the USO, b) He didn't have many points to defend, c) He has a lot of points to defend in Cincinatti.

I am going get some nastygrams for this, but what was the appearance fee for Toronto for Murray?

[laverfan]

DelPo, Murray, Fedal, Tsonga but Djokovic is still standing.

[lydian]

Thanks LF, have to say I expected that and his camp had kind of indicated that as a possibility by saying he may need to get a 250 under his belt pre USO if he can't do Masters. At the end of the day he's only got 100 points there to defend as well so withdrawal is no biggy. But it's going to be tough for him to defend 1200 pts at USO. Clearly the knee still isn't right. If he got really bad inflammation inthe joint then it could be months..ie. if its tendinosis rather than tendinitis.

[CaledonianCraig]

Hopefully Nadal's injury is nothing as serious as that and that he can come back as strong as ever.

[lydian]

I do suspect he has tendinosis which normally requires 6-12 weeks recovery but it can be much much longer (e.g. Delpo)...that would see him potentially coming back just before USO or afterwards. If afterwards he may just write the season off...

http://www.elitesportstherapy.com/tendinosis-vs--tendonitis

[lydian]

BTW, rumours online are that he'll not do USO and may can the whole year...

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/TennisConnected/status/233647310498840576

[The Special Juan]

Just when I want Nadal to be in Murray's half it doesn't happen

Murray withdraws. Cites knee injury as the reason. I suppose it makes sense to withdraw now, a) Because he wants to be fit for the USO, b) He didn't have many points to defend, c) He has a lot of points to defend in Cincinatti.

I am going get some nastygrams for this, but what was the appearance fee for Toronto for Murray?

It's not about the appearance fee, it's about the cake he sponged off of them (pardon the pun).

I don't at all think it's the beginning of the end for Nadal, I just think he'll have to do what the Williams Sisters do and play in the minimum number of events otherwise one of these days he will do something terminal to his knee.

[hawkeye]

If I was a tournament director handing out appearance fees I would put in a withdrawal clause...

[lydian]

Yep, and people forget he's had knee trouble since he was 14 years old...it's why he's so paranoid about them. I think he genuinely worries about being able to walk/move normally post-tennis career. I think when the end comes it'll be quick and on the back of a doctor saying "I think your time is up Rafa".
Given his prep for USO is in disarray he may just skip that...then you wonder if he'll return at all for the rest of the season...which is HC. That said, the longer he's away the harder it is to return. Guess we'll know more in about a week about his USO intentions...can't see him going to USO without any match practice so watch out for any preUSO late entries...or not.

[The Special Juan]

Can anyone see him only playing the Clay Court and Grass Court tournaments? Or are you not allowed to do that?

A footballer for a local team had terrible knee problems and had a lot of surgery. He was essentially told "Retire or you will not walk again". The guy can't even run anymore.

[lydian]

Yes you're not allowed to do that, even Federer at his age has to enter a lot of events. He just needs to get past this current bout...all depends on how deep th injury is, whether it's inflammatory or not. If there's alot of structural cartilage damage, probably like the footballer you mention, then he's looking at invasive surgery and long rehab or retirement. I don't think it's quite that bad though. Suspect the tendons have a lot of micro tears, rather than just the sheath being inflamed (tendinitis).

If he plays preUSO it would be this... http://www.winstonsalemopen.com/

[laverfan]

All this talk of injuries makes me think of what Federer has done for the sport and his near-injury-free career so far.

Hope all players get healthy and stay healthy.

[laverfan]

New OoP out for today...

http://www.rogerscup.com/men/english/orderOfPlay6.php

[socal1976]

nadal being out for the rest of the year would certainly be a shame. It is very sad to see a player of his stature suffer such injury problems. You have to wonder how often he can keep having these injuries and keep coming back. I know he is only 26 years old but the guy has the most consistent leg problems of any top player on tour. He misses a month of the season almost every year due to this kind of stuff.

[Danny_1982]

I'm glad he's pulled out. I'm pretty sure the knee is nothing serious. He was moving fantastically after getting it rubbed the other day. Based on how he was moving after the MTO I'm confident he'll be fine after a few days off.

Some might say its a convenient injury, and it's hard to disagree with that. But I have little sympathy. Ridiculous scheduling.

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